Canon Sued over Multifunction Printers that Refuse to Scan When Ink runs out.

Starfalcon

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I have an old HP inkjet from the late 90's that is still on its first ink cart. I used it 5 years or so again when I had to print something, I had to clean off the cart to get rid of dried ink, but it still printed fine once I did that.
 

DejaWiz

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Worked for HP (started as Inacom, then Compaq, then HP) between 1997-2009 in the computer, server, and printer customization service for special client configs.
The HP printers (inkjet, laser, and plotters) were by far the best back then, and I continue to work on them today as an Enterprise field repair tech. However, the quality difference between the old HP printers made in USA and the newer models made in Mexico and China are a world apart.
...TBS, I've owned two Brother B&W laser printers (basic laser printer since 2011 then bought a B&W MFD in 2013) and both are operating flawlessly with only toners and drums getting replaced. As of right now, I won't own any other brand of printer because of long-running shenanigans from the household brand names like the topic of this thread shows.
 

Randall Stephens

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jlx9wokn7tl31.jpg
 

Lumpus

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HP p*ssed me off for the last time a few years ago with (the above pic) can't print, low on xxxx color nonsense. 90% of the time I could shake the cartridge and it would sound about half full. So, I bought one of the Epson Eco-tanks (midrange model) and have never regreted it. Printer ink in bottles is CHEAP and the unit has been extremely reliable.
 

Starfalcon

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HP p*ssed me off for the last time a few years ago with (the above pic) can't print, low on xxxx color nonsense. 90% of the time I could shake the cartridge and it would sound about half full. So, I bought one of the Epson Eco-tanks (midrange model) and have never regreted it. Printer ink in bottles is CHEAP and the unit has been extremely reliable.

Yeah it is cheap...until you put it in a cartridge, then it becomes liquid gold. It also expires quicker than mayo left out in the hot sun.
 

Wat

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Thanks for sharing! That's interesting, but not too surprising. Mostly I'm just satisfied at how much more space-efficient paperless living is. All the information on every piece of paper which I've ever looked at now fits inside an M.2 drive the size of my middle finger. You can probably guess which companies I'm holding out that finger for.
For whatever reason, junk mail in my mailbox bothers me a whole lot less than email spam.

I prefer to read a printed book or newspaper. But I dont do either very often these days.

I guess this is where I reminisce about the good old days......
 

Comixbooks

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Picked up a Ecotank 6 months ago I print out photos of chicks and Comic Book covers. Along with my drawings that I reduce in Photoshop to be blown up in a projector since a digital projector projects too big.
 

AceGoober

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Being unable to print a black & white document because one color cartridge was dry is my biggest complaint.

I certainly hope the lawsuit is approved and goes to trial with a win for the plaintiff.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Being unable to print a black & white document because one color cartridge was dry is my biggest complaint.

I certainly hope the lawsuit is approved and goes to trial with a win for the plaintiff.

Judging by past class actions, I'm thinking trial is probably unlikely.

I'm betting this gets settled out of court.

Unless - of course - they think their business model is so dependent on this model that it becomes a "win or die trying" type of fight for them.

I think this business model is awful, but we have to realize that the relatively cheap printers we get depend on it. If the courts quash this business model expect printers to get 2-3 times more expensive.
 

Krazy925

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Kodak made some awesome printers with cheap carts $10 for bw and $15 for color but they got discontinued awfully quick. Bought two from Fry’s. My dad still uses one and the other finally got borked bad enough I tossed it.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Honestly, I used to absolutely hate printers until I decided to go laser only, and they have been completely problem and maintenance free ever since. I tell everyone who will listen not to buy an ink printer. Sure they are cheap upfront, but you get what you pay for...
 

Youn

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Could someone explain the programming logic that would leave room for a mistake such as this? I'm not seeing it.
if (ink_color_level < 25) error = 1; // management made me do this :(
if (ink_black_level < 25) error = 1; // eric in cubice #42 just landed a spit ball on emily's head, cool...
if (paper_jam == true) error = 1; // damn, I'm hungry for PB&J
if (cat_on_feed_tray != true * -1) error = 1; // ffs I miss my cat
if (error) printer_functions_enabled = false; // or else it'll self-destruct, lol...
else printer_functions_enabled = true;

... (meanwhile 100000 lines of code elsewhere)

if (printer_functions_enabled) process_scan_process(); // who the hell wrote this crap code, was it jeremy from like '02?
 

LukeTbk

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There's lazy and then there's negligence. Lazy programming will often mean the code might be sloppy or otherwise inefficient. As a programmer, I'm having a hard time figuring out how you could even make that mistake as an accident. Could someone explain the programming logic that would leave room for a mistake such as this? I'm not seeing it.
One possible way that it is lazy programming, imagine it is a very similar product family and the cheapest one has no scanner, has no anything it can do outside printing, you make the firmware with it in mind in a lazy way that do not think about added feature (which is a bad way to see it, doing a program has fast has possible for a client is not necessarily lazy, not at all).

You add feature and you do not mind that the printer close when it lack ink.

But I doubt it, why would a printer close itself if there is no ink to start with,..... that seem fully intentional.

After you first laser you really wonder why ink printer is so popular, not just I have many printer and one ink for the rare time color is relevant, but I know people with many ink printer.....
 

RazorWind

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Epson does the same thing...err... sorta. There is an internal ink pad that eventually over time gets "filled up" (for lack of a better term) and one it reaches a maximum, determined by epson, the printer throws out an error message and the only option you have is to shut it down. I have no idea why a full ink pad would prevent a printer from scanning documents, but it does.
So, what do you do after that? Replace the whole thing?

Or is the idea that they'll sell you a replacement ink pad for $99.99?
 

AceGoober

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Judging by past class actions, I'm thinking trial is probably unlikely.

I'm betting this gets settled out of court.

Unless - of course - they think their business model is so dependent on this model that it becomes a "win or die trying" type of fight for them.

I think this business model is awful, but we have to realize that the relatively cheap printers we get depend on it. If the courts quash this business model expect printers to get 2-3 times more expensive.

I'd rather pay more for a well designed printer with no restrictions than to pay less and have to pay more for cartridges.
 

Wade88

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I've had the same brother laserjet since 2012 it does scanning, no wifi, no usb (it might have usb but i've never tried it, it has moved one time since it was 1st installed) and it prints like 30 pages a minute. It's still on the original toner and things. It's been complaining about low toner for two years...
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I'd rather pay more for a well designed printer with no restrictions than to pay less and have to pay more for cartridges.

Me as well, but you know this trend is driven by people who walk into best buy and are like "Why would I spend $400 on a printer when I can get one for $32?"

Sadly people like you and I are not the mainstream consumer.
 

sleepeeg3

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I rescued a perfectly good brother b/w laser printer from work. They replaced all the printers with crappy HP ones so they could consolidate to one set of printer cartridges as a cost savings. Well I got one year out of the toner cartridge that even going with OEMs was $150. A set of the HP carts cost $150. Every month I have to change out the black and at least one color cart. I rarely print in color and it will not let me print if the software deems unfit for use. Also the damn software keeps bugging me make a cloud account. Not to mention it always gets jammed when I load up the scanner. The brother just worked and sucked everything in. I was pissed when I came in and it was replaced with the crappy HP. I found it in the dumpster where I fished it out and took it home after a cleaning.
This is exactly why I bought a Brother color laser years ago and never looked back.
After getting a Brother laser printer for home use for occasional printouts, I won't use anything else. It was inexpensive and is the best printer I've ever owned.
I got tired of replacing Canon ink and then HP printers a day after their warranty expired from some random software "error." My wife said her dad swore by Brother, so I have been using a $99 multi-function laser now for years - no problems!

Screw those others guys.
 

kamikazi

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I currently have a Samsung laser all in one. I got rid of my HP 882c. I should have kept it. It used the large ink cartridges and I had gotten to the point where I actually refilled them at home. It would even print black and white if you removed the color cartridge. Never had a problem out of that printer. Nowadays, you must have a full cartridge of every color or the printer is a brick.
 

1_rick

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Me as well, but you know this trend is driven by people who walk into best buy and are like "Why would I spend $400 on a printer when I can get one for $32?"

Sadly people like you and I are not the mainstream consumer.
And you explain to everyone why they should (probably) skip both, and get the $100-200 laser, right?

I picked up an HP M118dw (I specifically needed a printer with PCL) a few months ago, and it (mostly) works well, and it doesn't play any stupid inkjet shenanigans. But it's an HP, so I hate it, because it wants to install phone-home BS, subscription ink, and "email this address from anywhere to print" with everything the latter implies.
 

SmokeRngs

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I bought a Brother HL-2070N on sale for $70 off newegg back around 2007. It doesn't see heavy use by any means but the original toner cartridge lasted for years before needing to be replaced. I tried a cheap toner cartridge from Amazon which had decent reviews but it was junk. Replaced it with a cheap cartridge from Monoprice and it has worked beautifully. That toner finally ran out so I ordered a couple more from Monoprice and I expect not to have to buy toner again for years. Other than a couple paper jams I would expect from any printer it has worked flawlessly. It's not the fastest or quietest but it keeps going. Definitely the best printer purchase I ever made and the amount of money it has saved me over the years would boggle my mind if I tried to figure it up.

I see a lot of people also talking up Brother laser printers. It's what I've recommended for a long time. However, I think Brother has gone backwards in quality in recent years. From what I've read it seems they are pulling some of the same tricks other printer manufacturers have been doing for years, at least on some of the cheapest models. It may be something to consider for people looking for a laser printer. Even though Brother may be finally pulling some of the same stuff it's nowhere near as bad in most cases that I've read about.
 

MaZa

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As many have pointed out, cheap inkjets are basically a scam, an ink racket. Seriously, unless you are printing photos do not buy an inkjet. Buy a cheap BW laser, the cartridge lasts forever and will never dry and clog out when you leave it unused for six months like what most people do after printing out the document they need.
 

Red Falcon

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Obama Admin signed secret trade agreements that ALLOW this insanity,it will be the new norm worldwide,very soon.

"You will own nothing and be happy..." Said one of the top psychopaths just recently.
For those who don't get the reference:

Em_gq-cXMAIFvEi.jpg



Apparently, the "king wearing invisible clothes" wasn't a euphemism. ☭

f2712eb5f604b561b9c22d8455197c02ad2af917.jpg



For those who say this was fact checked and isn't real, here's the original video that was taken down.
They should add "You will print and scan nothing. And be happy." to that list. :D

 
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pendragon1

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this type of crap has been happening my entire it carreer, shouldnt be a shock but at least someones trying to stop this version. as someone else mentioned, buy a laser, the toner lasts forever. im using a hand-me-down brother laser i bought for a school three years ago that still had 1/2 the og toner in it...
 

defaultluser

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As many have pointed out, cheap inkjets are basically a scam, an ink racket. Seriously, unless you are printing photos do not buy an inkjet.

Actually, even printing photos inkjet is the same on a color laser...if you purchase the right paper:

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2015/...ces_photos_indistinguishable_from_inkjet.html

The actual thread with feedback on using HP Glossy Brochure Paper 200g:

https://hardforum.com/threads/looking-for-a-good-photo-laser-printer.1974920/

You have to go Dye Sub is your want to exceed cheap color laser with the right paper.
 

Ragenrok

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This is exactly why I bought a Brother color laser years ago and never looked back.
I've been telling my wife for years that as soon as our brother ink-jet printer dies we are getting a laser printer, the issue is the fucking thing runs like it's brand new still lol (it's not about 6 years old). I can get ink off Amazon for dirt cheap for it to, 3 full ink changes (so 3x black and 3x colours) costs me around $25 CAD.

I will never buy another brand except brother when it comes to printers.
 

MavericK

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I've been telling my wife for years that as soon as our brother ink-jet printer dies we are getting a laser printer, the issue is the fucking thing runs like it's brand new still lol (it's not about 6 years old). I can get ink off Amazon for dirt cheap for it to, 3 full ink changes (so 3x black and 3x colours) costs me around $25 CAD.

I will never buy another brand except brother when it comes to printers.
My issue with inkjet is that I print so infrequently that every time I went to use the inkjet, I had to run the cleaning several times, clean the heads, etc. which wastes a bunch of the ink. Not to mention the ink just drying up.

The laser, I can use it once a year if I want and it still works perfectly every time.
 

Wade88

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This was my experience with a litany of my parents' inkjets, when I needed a printer I bought the ~$150 brother laserjet. i use it for return and rma labels mostly.
 

sfsuphysics

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My issue with inkjet is that I print so infrequently that every time I went to use the inkjet, I had to run the cleaning several times, clean the heads, etc. which wastes a bunch of the ink. Not to mention the ink just drying up.

The laser, I can use it once a year if I want and it still works perfectly every time.
This was basically me in college, the rare times I actually had a paper to print (couple times a semester at most), until eventually I got tired of the constantly buying of ink, got a laser, and that shit lasted through college, grad school, and quite a few years of my first job. I did eventually swap it out with another laser, and I don't print crazy amounts of shit, but I do print multiple documents each week so it isn't completely unused. It has popped up a "low tower" warning though everytime I print, along with a link to "official Brother replacement parts" print quality looks the same... we'll see... still plan on buying a 3rd party replacement toner, one that has the slot so I can put the microchip and fool it into thinking it's a "Genuine Brother" product.
 

toast0

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It has popped up a "low tower" warning though everytime I print, along with a link to "official Brother replacement parts" print quality looks the same... we'll see... still plan on buying a 3rd party replacement toner, one that has the slot so I can put the microchip and fool it into thinking it's a "Genuine Brother" product.

On my Brother, you can do some button twiddling to reset the toner count when it does the warning. If it's actually low, you'll know by the output. I went ahead and bought a new cartridge when it started warning, but we'll see how long the old one goes.
 

kamxam

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"Back in 2004 during finals week, a few guys from my college dorm floor did this to a printer and hung the parts from the ceiling in the hallway as modern art. One guy even punched it with his bear hands. Of course we played the appropriate music in the background while we did this"
Hmmmm....
%2f057%2f5%2fa%2fbear_hands_by_tashawinnie-d786428.jpg
 

sfsuphysics

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On my Brother, you can do some button twiddling to reset the toner count when it does the warning. If it's actually low, you'll know by the output. I went ahead and bought a new cartridge when it started warning, but we'll see how long the old one goes.
Good to know, I'll look into that. I mean if I started seeing faded text or something I'd definitely already be in on replacement toner, but it looks perfectly fine... or it it just does a really good job at uniformly printing everything such that I don't recognize it getting less dark.
 

Nenu

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12 years ago I gave up on inkjets when my fairly new and very good HP printer kept blocking and wasting tons of ink, paper and time to get a good print.
So I bought a B/W Samsung ML-2240 laser for about £50 lol, this lasted until last year on the original toner and gave impressive print quality.
I now have a Brother HL-1110 laser @ £70 which has been great so far.

I would have had a colour laser a long time ago if the cartridges werent just CMY, colours are awful imo.
There are supposedly RGB lasers out now with much better gamut so may jump in, but need to qualify reliability and cartridge costs first...

... naaa, I was wrong. Only one HUGE office RGB laser, which needs special paper and a room of its own, exists so far.
Seems stupid, theres big money to be made for a new company to jump in here.
I understand why other ripoff mfrs dont want to ruin their current product catalogue with an actually decent colour laser.
One day it will happen, but when?
 
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toast0

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Good to know, I'll look into that. I mean if I started seeing faded text or something I'd definitely already be in on replacement toner, but it looks perfectly fine... or it it just does a really good job at uniformly printing everything such that I don't recognize it getting less dark.
Sounds like plenty of toner. When it gets low, you'll usually start seeing inconsistent darkness left to right, and you can shake the toner cartridge to help even it out, but then you end up with just greyish (or not very dark whatever color).
 

Wat

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For the most part this is not true.
It most certainly is true. There are eucalyptus plantiations in brazil and some other countries specifically grown for pulpwood, but not in North America or Europe.
The economics are just not there. It is much more profitable to let trees grow to sizes that can be used for lumber or other products. Especially this past couple years. Have you seen lumber prices??
 

travm

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It most certainly is true. There are eucalyptus plantiations in brazil and some other countries specifically grown for pulpwood, but not in North America or Europe.
The economics are just not there. It is much more profitable to let trees grow to sizes that can be used for lumber or other products. Especially this past couple years. Have you seen lumber prices??
I've driven by pulp and paper mills, trust me, they use prime wood. They may also use not prime wood, but they most certainly use prime wood.
 

Wat

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I've driven by pulp and paper mills, trust me, they use prime wood. They may also use not prime wood, but they most certainly use prime wood.
Which ones? If it is in the us or Canada, i probably know something about it.

There is absolutely no reason to use "prime" wood for paper. If you see large straight trees going to a pulp mill, it is because they are too diseased/rotten/insect damaged or an oddball non merchantable species that cannot be used for something else. The price for wood chips (a pulp mills feedstock) is far far lower than the price of dimension lumber, furniture grade lumber or veneer.

Even speciality paper mills, like the one that makes the paper for us currency does not use "prime" trees for pulp. They use cotton and linen waste (rags) to make high quality paper.

In summary, you are talking out your ass. Stop.
 

illli

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So, what do you do after that? Replace the whole thing?

Or is the idea that they'll sell you a replacement ink pad for $99.99?

If you go to the epson site they recommend sending it in to an authorized repair center where they'll replace the ink pads and reset the counter.
But you can get 3rd party replacement pads and replace them yourself. There are how-to replacement guides on youtube etc.
But just replacing them won't reset the counter.

epson has a reset utility https://epson.com/Support/wa00819 but according to the info it is just a temporary rest.
There is a 3rd party "Waste Ink Counters Reset Utility", you can find here https://www.wic.support/
 
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