Canon 5d mark iii ML vs Sony a7rii

Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
9
Hello everyone,

I have recently come up to a dilemma and I need your help to clear things out a bit.

I have a Sony a7rii for a couple of years and I'm using it with vintage lenses only, mostly m42. I mainly do photography but I really am interested in video as well. I have done some videos through the years and now I am planning to do some video clips, short movies etc. so I am interested in the best way to get cinematic resaults.
Two months ago I got a Canon Eos 5d classic and I really love the results I get from this camera and especially the colors and generally Canon colors. Plus I have got adapters for my lenses and I have no problems mounting them on Canon.

So I was thinking of trading my Sony a7rii for a used Canon Eos 5d mark iii and install magic lantern on it.
Before you call me mad (if you were planning to), let me explain my thoughts.
I am thinking about ML raw video which is the best you can get as far as I know.
I will probably miss ibis from Sony, but I am not really sure about it.
In photography I think that I am not really going to miss anything that much and I come up to love how dslr cameras work compared to mirrorless full electronic systems. You know shooting with vintage glass is a full manual process and a dslr is closer to that.
I'm quite sure that I can live with the 22mp of the Canon camera (who doesn't) and I am not interested in sports and wild life photography at all (if that make any difference). Finally I am thinking that with Canon's live view I can shoot very closely to how I shoot with mirrorless, if I ever miss that...

So basically the questions are:

1. How Canon Eos 5d iii ML raw video compare to Sony's? (video itself and post processing).
2. Considering that I don't care about auto focus etc because I use vintage lenses, how do the two cameras compare in photography (portraits, landscapes and some street photography).
3. Finally I will need some help with the Canon's ML video resolutions and crops.

1. Does the 3.5k work well? I mean I have read some people saying that there is no preview or not a good preview on the back screen. And additionally can this be improved by using an external monitor?
2. I’ve read that the mark iii with ML can shoot the following resolutions etc:

  • 1920×960 @ 50p (both 1:1 crop and full-frame – 3×3 pixel binning)
  • 1920×800 @ 60p (same as above)
  • 1920×1080 @ 45p and 48p (3×3 binning)
  • 1920×1920 @ 24p (1:1 square crop)
  • 3072×1920 @ 24p (1:1 crop)
  • 3840×1600 @ 24p (1:1 crop)
  • 4096×2560 @ 12.5p (1:1 crop)
  • 4096×1440 @ 25p (1:1 crop)
  • Full-resolution LiveView: 5796×3870 at 7.4 fps (128ms rolling shutter)
now assuming that all above are correct...
The full frame 3x3 binning is finally full frame as far as I can tell...
But what about the 1:1 crop mode? Can you give me some example like super35 or x1.5 or x1.6 or such to help me understand the field of view I am going to get?

The last thing that I am thinking as an alternative for the 5d iii is 5d iv but I am thinking that ML is not available at the moment and I don't know when and if it will be (I have read about some problems with it, please enlighten me if you know anything better) and of course I don't know what to expect from it (if you know anything please let me know) and of course the 5d iv is a more expensive camera than the 5d iii. So if I sell my Sony and get a 5d iii I will probably be able to get some extra stuff for it but if I go for the 5d iv I will certainly not be able to get anything more than the camera itself.
So let me know your thoughts about it as well.
Speaking of that, I finally have to mention that my budget is at maximum the Sony's value, so more expensive options will unfortunately be out of budget...

So I would really appreciate any user's reviews and please feel free to share your thoughts about the three cameras (or if you have experience with some other Sony similar models).

Thank you in advance,
George
 

UnknownSouljer

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 24, 2001
Messages
7,064
1. How Canon Eos 5d iii ML raw video compare to Sony's? (video itself and post processing).
14-bit is a lot of data to be sure. You will be able to get more out of your video. Particularly in mid-tones where RAW has a benefit over LOG. However whether this will actually allow you to get a better final image or not is going to depend a lot on how much time you decide to grade.

The biggest issue will probably come from doing post. The post workflow for the 5D3 using ML isn't straight forward. And if you want to be shooting and editing projects constantly, it will be a hassle.

2. Considering that I don't care about auto focus etc because I use vintage lenses, how do the two cameras compare in photography (portraits, landscapes and some street photography).

I would say they don't compare. I've owned both cameras. The A7RII is an upgrade over the 5D3 in every way that matters.

The A7RII has significantly more dynamic range allowing for way more detail held in the highlights and shadows. There is a at minimum a 2 stop DR advantage in the A7RII. The tonality and color is also leaps and bounds better.

EDIT: If you're shooting purely lit portraits, there won't really be an advantage one way or the other. As in portraits you tend to compress DR through lighting. However DR matters a lot in situations where you don't have control of the light and there is massive dynamic range, namely shooting sunrises and sunsets, generally landscapes in general and of course anything you shoot on the street.

3. Finally I will need some help with the Canon's ML video resolutions and crops.

1. Does the 3.5k work well? I mean I have read some people saying that there is no preview or not a good preview on the back screen. And additionally can this be improved by using an external monitor?
2. I’ve read that the mark iii with ML can shoot the following resolutions etc:

  • 1920×960 @ 50p (both 1:1 crop and full-frame – 3×3 pixel binning)
  • 1920×800 @ 60p (same as above)
  • 1920×1080 @ 45p and 48p (3×3 binning)
  • 1920×1920 @ 24p (1:1 square crop)
  • 3072×1920 @ 24p (1:1 crop)
  • 3840×1600 @ 24p (1:1 crop)
  • 4096×2560 @ 12.5p (1:1 crop)
  • 4096×1440 @ 25p (1:1 crop)
  • Full-resolution LiveView: 5796×3870 at 7.4 fps (128ms rolling shutter)

I know less about these aspects of using ML. But suffice to say you're using a hack. Ergonomically it's going to be less intuitive and if it does require an external monitor to actually see what you're doing then that's extra as well.

Provided all these resolutions work well and the rolling shutter isn't terrible then there are more than enough options to get the job done, even though the high fps modes are a bit lacking and the higher resolution modes are a narrower aspect ratio than you may want.

now assuming that all above are correct...
The full frame 3x3 binning is finally full frame as far as I can tell...
But what about the 1:1 crop mode? Can you give me some example like super35 or x1.5 or x1.6 or such to help me understand the field of view I am going to get?

It's a 20mp sensor. I'm sure someone has done the math. If it was 12MP, it would be precisely 1.5 crop. 1:1 on 20MP will probably be closer to 2x crop.

EDIT: 1:1 if shooting 1080p. 4k is 12MP. If it's 4k 1:1 on a 20MP sensor it's probably a bit wider than 1.5. Somewhere around 1.3-1.4x crop maybe?

The last thing that I am thinking as an alternative for the 5d iii is 5d iv but I am thinking that ML is not available at the moment and I don't know when and if it will be (I have read about some problems with it, please enlighten me if you know anything better) and of course I don't know what to expect from it (if you know anything please let me know) and of course the 5d iv is a more expensive camera than the 5d iii. So if I sell my Sony and get a 5d iii I will probably be able to get some extra stuff for it but if I go for the 5d iv I will certainly not be able to get anything more than the camera itself.
So let me know your thoughts about it as well.
Speaking of that, I finally have to mention that my budget is at maximum the Sony's value, so more expensive options will unfortunately be out of budget...

So I would really appreciate any user's reviews and please feel free to share your thoughts about the three cameras (or if you have experience with some other Sony similar models).

Thank you in advance,
George
The super short version is you're going to do a lot of extra work for nebulous benefit.
Only make this switch if you just want to screw around.
A camera like the A73 would give you way more benefit and bang for your buck than stepping back to a 5D3. For all stills work the 5D3 is definitely a step back.

Considering you don't even use autofocus, you'll have a very low hit-rate on the 5D3. There are no focus assist tools (like focus peaking). So unless you're planning on shooting high DOF or use an external monitor to shoot your photos, you're going to have a bad time. If you do choose to use AF, I can tell you that eye-AF and just AF in general is miles better than the 5D3. There is also no flippy screen, which is another tool that helps a lot with street photography that the 5D3 lacks.

I personally generally feel the 5DIV is a step back as well. However it does have ergonomics advantage and AF advantage (that you don't even use) over the A7RII. However, because of tools like punch in to focus (Canon does have this but you can only use it through the back of the screen, and not the viewfinder), flippy screen, and focus peaking, I'd pick a Sony camera over a Canon one if your goal is to use vintage lenses and manual focus.

That's not even including the fact that the E-mount will more or less allow you to mount any lens you want, whereas being on EF mount will limit what lenses you can use. You won't be able to use m42 lenses anymore as an example.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
9
14-bit is a lot of data to be sure. You will be able to get more out of your video. Particularly in mid-tones where RAW has a benefit over LOG. However whether this will actually allow you to get a better final image or not is going to depend a lot on how much time you decide to grade.

The biggest issue will probably come from doing post. The post workflow for the 5D3 using ML isn't straight forward. And if you want to be shooting and editing projects constantly, it will be a hassle.



I would say they don't compare. I've owned both cameras. The A7RII is an upgrade over the 5D3 in every way that matters.

The A7RII has significantly more dynamic range allowing for way more detail held in the highlights and shadows. There is a at minimum a 2 stop DR advantage in the A7RII. The tonality and color is also leaps and bounds better.



I know less about these aspects of using ML. But suffice to say you're using a hack. Ergonomically it's going to be less intuitive and if it does require an external monitor to actually see what you're doing then that's extra as well.

Provided all these resolutions work well and the rolling shutter isn't terrible then there are more than enough options to get the job done, even though the high fps modes are a bit lacking and the higher resolution modes are a narrower aspect ratio than you may want.



It's a 20mp sensor. I'm sure someone has done the math. If it was 12MP, it would be precisely 1.5 crop. 1:1 on 20MP will probably be closer to 2x crop.


The super short version is you're going to do a lot of extra work for nebulous benefit.
Only make this switch if you just want to screw around.
A camera like the A73 would give you way more benefit and bang for your buck than stepping back to a 5D3. For all stills work the 5D3 is definitely a step back.

Considering you don't even use autofocus, you'll have a very low hit-rate on the 5D3. There are no focus assist tools (like focus peaking). So unless you're planning on shooting high DOF or use an external monitor to shoot your photos, you're going to have a bad time. If you do choose to use AF, I can tell you that eye-AF and just AF in general is miles better than the 5D3. There is also no flippy screen, which is another tool that helps a lot with street photography that the 5D3 lacks.

I personally generally feel the 5DIV is a step back as well. However it does have ergonomics advantage and AF advantage (that you don't even use) over the A7RII. However, because of tools like punch in to focus (Canon does have this but you can only use it through the back of the screen, and not the viewfinder), flippy screen, and focus peaking, I'd pick a Sony camera over a Canon one if your goal is to use vintage lenses and manual focus.

That's not even including the fact that the E-mount will more or less allow you to mount any lens you want, whereas being on EF mount will limit what lenses you can use. You won't be able to use m42 lenses anymore as an example.
You’ve been quite precise and helpful. Thank you very much!!!
 
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