Can you work in IT/Networking with a BS in Computer Science?

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DarkDubzs

Limp Gawd
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Jan 3, 2014
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I want to work in Networking, like as a Network Technician or Admin, etc. If i decide to f*ck trade school or private university for BS in Information Systems, and i instead go to a normal, public State college to get a BS in Computer Science, will i be able to work in Networking and IT? I am wary of getting a degree in CS, because all they teach in that is how to code and sh*t, and i dont want to be a programmer or software/hardware engineer- I want to upkeep and build networks like LAN and WAN, and everything else about Networking. But if i did go to State college and got a BS in CS, how would i learn all the stuff about advanced networking?

Please leave any feedback and help. Thanks!
 
You can learn anything you want on your own. I would suggest finding an AA degree that has the classes in the area you're interested and then moving on to a BS. Having the skills is more important than which degree you have. Work experience is also important.
 
Sp33dFr33k said:
You can learn anything you want on your own. I would suggest finding an AA degree that has the classes in the area you're interested and then moving on to a BS. Having the skills is more important than which degree you have. Work experience is also important.
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YES, i agree, but the way i mean it is i want to learn the skills I need for advanced networking, formally and by the actual school.
 
I dropped the entire BA CS approach and instead began focusing on a AA with a specialized program specifically geared toward Networking. It may or may not work out as planned, but in this economy it's going to suck and be impossible to gauge either which way as I see it. Not to mention it feels like a BS CS is a complete waste of time. Honestly, half the classes they make you take for any generalized degree don't help you whatsoever for what you're trying to do.

Experience is what really becomes the kick in the balls. So far I haven't had any bites as I go into my final quarter before graduating.

I really see experience being the biggest factor right now. Very few employers are going to care how many Certs or Degrees you got, or how well you may benefit them in the long-run. They want people that can jump in and run right now. Because the economy is generally shit, the talent pool saturates all levels of the totem poll. That'll be the biggest hurdle as I know it's mine. I'd suggest taking the approach we were all taught when I started going into networking.

You're in a "Networking" field, so network! That's really your best shot just starting off. Everyone in my classes that have gotten jobs are doing basic low-level IT work, or they came in with a Networking job and had to get the paper to prove their skills. Don't expect those papers: degrees, or Certs, to take you anywhere alone.
 
Liger88 said:
I dropped the entire BA CS approach and instead began focusing on a AA with a specialized program specifically geared toward Networking. It may or may not work out as planned, but in this economy it's going to suck and be impossible to gauge either which way as I see it. Not to mention it feels like a BS CS is a complete waste of time. Honestly, half the classes they make you take for any generalized degree don't help you whatsoever for what you're trying to do.

Experience is what really becomes the kick in the balls. So far I haven't had any bites as I go into my final quarter before graduating.

I really see experience being the biggest factor right now. Very few employers are going to care how many Certs or Degrees you got, or how well you may benefit them in the long-run. They want people that can jump in and run right now. Because the economy is generally shit, the talent pool saturates all levels of the totem poll. That'll be the biggest hurdle as I know it's mine. I'd suggest taking the approach we were all taught when I started going into networking.

You're in a "Networking" field, so network! That's really your best shot just starting off. Everyone in my classes that have gotten jobs are doing basic low-level IT work, or they came in with a Networking job and had to get the paper to prove their skills. Don't expect those papers: degrees, or Certs, to take you anywhere alone.
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Yeah, thats why i have been really not wanting to go to a State college because they dont really teach about Networking or CIS, all they do is Comp. Science. Thats why ive been focusing and basically decided to go to trade school for a BS in Information Systems. Just that now im kinda broadening my view and seeing what State college can offer in this field, so far i see not much.

And "Don't expect those papers: degrees, or Certs, to take you anywhere alone." I totally understand and agree. Correct me if im wrong, but i believe that the degree and certs will have the employers let you in, and your work and true knowledge "on the field (office, lol)" will keep you in as an employee, am i right?
And i did not know this, but supposedly jobs in IT are very competitive right now in SoCal which is not good for employees. True?
 
First, if you combine a BS in CS w/ some outside learning you'll be just fine from a HR/hiring point of view. It's a good degree and fits.

Now... I think getting a BS in CS is a great idea. The future is automation and APIs. Networking is changing very quickly. Things like Software Defined Networking (SDN) are making networking simpler and more complex at the same time. We'll be automating and integrating network configuration w/ application and application deployment and that will be done via APIs and other automation techniques. So a CS degree will be very beneficial to you.

That's the future.
 
It all depends. I can't speak for most areas, or every situation as they will all be different. They tell you that degrees and certs will help you get in the door or at least to the interview process and that may be correct. The problem is people with more experience are most likely going to win. Employers can easily pay for someone to get the pieces of paper that make HR look like they have a fantastic roster. Being on the other end of that trying to get the experience is a lot more challenging. Sure, getting in at a low position anywhere will help fill that gap, but if you look at your long-term goals you don't want to waste time getting experience as a PC Technician when you really want to be a Networking Administrator/Engineer ya know?

It's a non-stop battle I'm finding myself stuck in. For me it's just getting to that interview process in the first place and even with solid contacts I'm struggling. SoCal may be competitive and that can be a good/bad thing, it really all depends. Competition in a down economy with a bunch of over qualified applicants is not a good thing for people like us. Competition of who has the desire to be successful and make any employer that picks you up succeed is another.

You can't go wrong doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that. I've been lucky that my community college has a very strong and recognized Networking program with close ties to Cisco and nearly a half a million dollars of high-end equipment. Not everyone is that lucky, but I also would take every PC related class I could from programming, to learning the Mac OSX, Unix, Unix Admin, A+, Server+, Network Server OS'es, Active Directory, etc. to broaden my general knowledge. Wont mean crap on a resume, but it will pay off once I get in somewhere and can talk with the big boys when things like that come up.
 
Liger88 said:
It all depends. I can't speak for most areas, or every situation as they will all be different. They tell you that degrees and certs will help you get in the door or at least to the interview process and that may be correct. The problem is people with more experience are most likely going to win. Employers can easily pay for someone to get the pieces of paper that make HR look like they have a fantastic roster. Being on the other end of that trying to get the experience is a lot more challenging. Sure, getting in at a low position anywhere will help fill that gap, but if you look at your long-term goals you don't want to waste time getting experience as a PC Technician when you really want to be a Networking Administrator/Engineer ya know?

It's a non-stop battle I'm finding myself stuck in. For me it's just getting to that interview process in the first place and even with solid contacts I'm struggling. SoCal may be competitive and that can be a good/bad thing, it really all depends. Competition in a down economy with a bunch of over qualified applicants is not a good thing for people like us. Competition of who has the desire to be successful and make any employer that picks you up succeed is another.

You can't go wrong doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that. I've been lucky that my community college has a very strong and recognized Networking program with close ties to Cisco and nearly a half a million dollars of high-end equipment. Not everyone is that lucky, but I also would take every PC related class I could from programming, to learning the Mac OSX, Unix, Unix Admin, A+, Server+, Network Server OS'es, Active Directory, etc. to broaden my general knowledge. Wont mean crap on a resume, but it will pay off once I get in somewhere and can talk with the big boys when things like that come up.
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What state is that in?
 
NetJunkie said:
First, if you combine a BS in CS w/ some outside learning you'll be just fine from a HR/hiring point of view. It's a good degree and fits.

Now... I think getting a BS in CS is a great idea. The future is automation and APIs. Networking is changing very quickly. Things like Software Defined Networking (SDN) are making networking simpler and more complex at the same time. We'll be automating and integrating network configuration w/ application and application deployment and that will be done via APIs and other automation techniques. So a CS degree will be very beneficial to you.

That's the future.
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What outside learning exactly? Going back to school like a trade school?
 
I'll admit it I didn't read the thread but I'm a systems admin with a BS in CS. I agree with Net Junkie on the future is software. I get asked about 3 times a day if I can do that with powershell or if it can be scripted in someway. Powershell I'm learning the more I use it and learn it is that it is a .net command interpreter so my programming background has helped. I also tend to get the projects where you have to work closely with the Dev's because according to my manager I can talk "dev". In other words my manages like my CS degree.

I will say though that my CS degree didn't get me the job. My past experience did. I did my time in the trenches while in college working department help desks and what not. Got my start in servers there too.

I also don't know if I had it to do again if I would get a 4 year degree and go the trade school route.

I guess the moral of these ramblings is even if you go the trade school route take a few programming classes. It is a different way of thinking and I really do feel like they help me understand systems better.

I'm guessing that this really doesn't make sense and I shouldn't be posting half a sleep. If I lost anybody somewhere just call me stupid and I'll make it make sense tomorrow. :p
 
DeChache said:
I'll admit it I didn't read the thread but I'm a systems admin with a BS in CS. I agree with Net Junkie on the future is software. I get asked about 3 times a day if I can do that with powershell or if it can be scripted in someway. Powershell I'm learning the more I use it and learn it is that it is a .net command interpreter so my programming background has helped. I also tend to get the projects where you have to work closely with the Dev's because according to my manager I can talk "dev". In other words my manages like my CS degree.

I will say though that my CS degree didn't get me the job. My past experience did. I did my time in the trenches while in college working department help desks and what not. Got my start in servers there too.

I also don't know if I had it to do again if I would get a 4 year degree and go the trade school route.

I guess the moral of these ramblings is even if you go the trade school route take a few programming classes. It is a different way of thinking and I really do feel like they help me understand systems better.

I'm guessing that this really doesn't make sense and I shouldn't be posting half a sleep. If I lost anybody somewhere just call me stupid and I'll make it make sense tomorrow. :p
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So what about this? Go to trade school or college and get a BS in Information Systems and self learn some programming languages? I believe certs can prove my competency in coding and programming when i get to that level, right? Or maybe I can go to some individual classes on programming somehow?
Or what if i go to State college, get a BS in CS and self learn networking? But i think it will be easier to learn programming than everything about networking, right?

UGH. WHY CANT I LEARN C.S. AND I.T. IN THE SAME SCHOOL!???!!
 
DarkDubzs said:
So what about this? Go to trade school or college and get a BS in Information Systems and self learn some programming languages? I believe certs can prove my competency in coding and programming when i get to that level, right? Or maybe I can go to some individual classes on programming somehow?
Or what if i go to State college, get a BS in CS and self learn networking? But i think it will be easier to learn programming than everything about networking, right?

UGH. WHY CANT I LEARN C.S. AND I.T. IN THE SAME SCHOOL!???!!
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I'm gonna say this. There are two ways to program. The right way and the wrong way....

Most people I know that are self taught (Limted sample I know but) are horrible programmers. Yes the stuff works but god help the guy that has to work on it next.(I know you don't want to be a dev) Also programming is more than knowing how to put text down that will do stuff. (Man I'm starting to sound like a Dev again)

I'm self taught in networking and administration tasks and really for me it was the better way to do it. Getting your hands dirty with hardware side of IT is easier and all your degree does is teach you how to think anyway once you hit the real world nothing will apply. (OK I guess you do tech school with a cisco program you will know the IOS commands and what order to enter them in.) You will learn more if you first rollout/outage that you ever will in school.

Also make sure you know what an "Information Systems" degree really is at the school you want to go to. I've seen one to many that are nothing more than advanced Microsoft Office degrees. I'm sorry you can't teach database's with Access.

I'm not saying CS is an end all degree either. There needs to be a combination of both.

IT is a weird place nothing is black and white and nothing works like its supposed too :p.

If you don't mind what state are you in?

Can you tell me what you think a job in IT is?

(Again I need to go to bed why do I keep sitting here mindlessly clicking around the internet damn outages screwing up my sleep schedule.)
 
DeChache said:
I'm gonna say this. There are two ways to program. The right way and the wrong way....

Most people I know that are self taught (Limted sample I know but) are horrible programmers. Yes the stuff works but god help the guy that has to work on it next.(I know you don't want to be a dev) Also programming is more than knowing how to put text down that will do stuff. (Man I'm starting to sound like a Dev again)

I'm self taught in networking and administration tasks and really for me it was the better way to do it. Getting your hands dirty with hardware side of IT is easier and all your degree does is teach you how to think anyway once you hit the real world nothing will apply. (OK I guess you do tech school with a cisco program you will know the IOS commands and what order to enter them in.) You will learn more if you first rollout/outage that you ever will in school.

Also make sure you know what an "Information Systems" degree really is at the school you want to go to. I've seen one to many that are nothing more than advanced Microsoft Office degrees. I'm sorry you can't teach database's with Access.

I'm not saying CS is an end all degree either. There needs to be a combination of both.

IT is a weird place nothing is black and white and nothing works like its supposed too :p.

If you don't mind what state are you in?

Can you tell me what you think a job in IT is?

(Again I need to go to bed why do I keep sitting here mindlessly clicking around the internet damn outages screwing up my sleep schedule.)
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As long as i know the basics of relevant programming languages, i dont care, lol. After all, i dont want to be a dev or programmer, like you said too. "Also programming is more than knowing how to put text down that will do stuff." Can you further explain that?

Totally agree, i believe the best way to learn, especially with this field, is with hands on and real experience, not reading a book on how to upkeep or build a network- Id much rather build the network for real and learn along the way. Thats why i dont want to go to a State college, all they do there are lectures, theories and exams... Thats where trade school comes to the rescue, and i am particularly interested in SCIT's Information Systems BS degree.

Im obviously confused and at like 1% knowledge, but already really understand what you mean by IT not being a black and white field.

I live in Southern California. Hmm, how can i explain IT, i guess, having to do with computers/computer systems and Information Systems-aka. networks like LAN and WAN. I know there is more, but not sure how to put it into words... hate that feeling.

P.S. Im not scared of getting my hands dirty with physically up keeping servers, computers, and other hardware. I love building, upgrading, and repairing computers, and im excited about wiring together a network and all that stuff. Just that i need formal education to know what the hell it all means. Again, im like at 1% knowledge and i definitely will need formal education for my future career.
 
Skills > Education.

That said, it really depends where you want to work, some will perhaps require university while others wont and community college is fine.

If you have a project that you can put on your resume sometimes that is good because it shows real life skills. When I ran my game server I'd put it on, and I had a page on the site talking about how the game server is properly managed, and it even had graphs and stuff. IT managers like that stuff. I had purposely put that page there.
 
Red Squirrel said:
Skills > Education.

That said, it really depends where you want to work, some will perhaps require university while others wont and community college is fine.

If you have a project that you can put on your resume sometimes that is good because it shows real life skills. When I ran my game server I'd put it on, and I had a page on the site talking about how the game server is properly managed, and it even had graphs and stuff. IT managers like that stuff. I had purposely put that page there.
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Id much rather get a bachelors than just an associates, its not even an option for me lol. Your experience also just reinforces that employers look for experience and someone who stands out, apparently even more so where i am because IT is very competitive among job seekers down here in SoCal... apparently, hopefully not though.
 
NetJunkie said:
First, if you combine a BS in CS w/ some outside learning you'll be just fine from a HR/hiring point of view. It's a good degree and fits.

Now... I think getting a BS in CS is a great idea. The future is automation and APIs. Networking is changing very quickly. Things like Software Defined Networking (SDN) are making networking simpler and more complex at the same time. We'll be automating and integrating network configuration w/ application and application deployment and that will be done via APIs and other automation techniques. So a CS degree will be very beneficial to you.

That's the future.
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Agreed++

You will actually be alot better off with a CS degree, and then learning networking as you go. Alot of CS degrees include networking classes anyway.

Go for a 4 year BS in CS...find a job as an intern/student worker in networking somewhere.
 
DarkDubzs said:
So what about this? Go to trade school or college and get a BS in Information Systems and self learn some programming languages? I believe certs can prove my competency in coding and programming when i get to that level, right? Or maybe I can go to some individual classes on programming somehow?
Or what if i go to State college, get a BS in CS and self learn networking? But i think it will be easier to learn programming than everything about networking, right?

UGH. WHY CANT I LEARN C.S. AND I.T. IN THE SAME SCHOOL!???!!
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Because CS and IT are not at all the same thing.

Certs prove you can get certs. Resumes with certs get tossed in the trash when the applicant can't do a simple for loop from memory.

You want to do CS or you'll be bucketing someone else's bits for your entire life.
 
Best advice I can give you, intern with a few different depts at a University and find out what your passion is. IE, do you want to do programming, systems work, networking, etc. Once you realize your passion then approach the appropriate dept and ask to work for them as a student worker.
 
green91 said:
Best advice I can give you, intern with a few different depts at a University and find out what your passion is. IE, do you want to do programming, systems work, networking, etc. Once you realize your passion then approach the appropriate dept and ask to work for them as a student worker.
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Well I already know I don't want to program for a living, just sounds boring and meticulous- want to do something I actually want to do.

Do you mean intern while in school or take like a gap year off after HS and intern then?
 
mwarps said:
Because CS and IT are not at all the same thing.

Certs prove you can get certs. Resumes with certs get tossed in the trash when the applicant can't do a simple for loop from memory.

You want to do CS or you'll be bucketing someone else's bits for your entire life.
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How would the employers know if they can do something if they aren't working yet? You mean they ask the applicat to do something during the interview or... explain please.

I'm just afraid that if I do get a BS in CS, ill end up only finding a job in like programming or hardware developing and I really do not want to do that at all. That's why I want to only focus on IT, only on like building networks and up keeping hardware/servers. Hope this makes sense. And also, I'm not confident at all with teaching myself EVERYTHING about networking, I feel only formal schooling can teach me.
 
Only read a few replies, so sorry if this had already been covered. Make sure you take a sales class. Even if it's just one. Sales will NEVER go away (in some form) for a few reasons. One, selling yourself to employers, selling your solutions to your boss, and selling products to customers. If you cannot find a job, make one! How? Go to a small chain and try to sell them on network security. "hey, I see you have 2 locations now, have you ever considered networking the two so you can automate sales info or employee records?"
 
DarkDubzs said:
How would the employers know if they can do something if they aren't working yet? You mean they ask the applicat to do something during the interview or... explain please.
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Exactly. They're going to make sure that you know what you say you do. (or they should)
 
SticKx911 said:
Exactly. They're going to make sure that you know what you say you do. (or they should)
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Well as long as I go to school for the field of work, I should know how to do what they ask, it being a career/field relevant question. Like if went in for some network position, they shouldn't be asking about computer science stuff right?
 
DarkDubzs said:
Well I already know I don't want to program for a living, just sounds boring and meticulous- want to do something I actually want to do.

Do you mean intern while in school or take like a gap year off after HS and intern then?
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Yes, while in college. I work in higher education and regularly employee students as part-time network technicians. I work around their class schedules and give them on-the-job training.
 
green91 said:
Yes, while in college. I work in higher education and regularly employee students as part-time network technicians. I work around their class schedules and give them on-the-job training.
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What if I go to trade school for a BS in Information Technology, it would obviously be too late to switch to Computer Science. Would I still intern in that place or what should I do?
 
green91 said:
Yes, while in college. I work in higher education and regularly employee students as part-time network technicians. I work around their class schedules and give them on-the-job training.
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This is what my current job is, I have worked for my university the whole time I have been in college, I moved up from a simple helpdesk consultant to a senior student technician. Tasked with everything from full computer lab refreshes to installed 16 new network drops. This is given me valuable on-the-job training and experience.

My resume will have a small line stating "BS in Informatics" and a half a page of all the projects and responsibilities. I need the BS to get through HR and experience to get hired. At least that is how I see it.
 
Well as of right now, I'm still more lenient on going to trade school to get my BS in Information Systems, mainly because I will focus only on that which is the field I only want to focus on, and it will have more hands on experience and learning than traditional college.

I also heard yesterday that if you take a year off after you graduate from HS before you go to college, you don't get financial aid. Is that true? I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope its not true. Help on that anyone?
 
DarkDubzs said:
What if I go to trade school for a BS in Information Technology, it would obviously be too late to switch to Computer Science. Would I still intern in that place or what should I do?
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I personally thing a Bachelors in IT is equivalent to CS for non-programming disciplines.
 
DarkDubzs said:
Well as of right now, I'm still more lenient on going to trade school to get my BS in Information Systems, mainly because I will focus only on that which is the field I only want to focus on, and it will have more hands on experience and learning than traditional college.

I also heard yesterday that if you take a year off after you graduate from HS before you go to college, you don't get financial aid. Is that true? I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope its not true. Help on that anyone?
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I don't believe the financial aid part is true, at least in my state. However, I think most students who take a year off after HS never make it into college. It's to easy to make a little money, and then buy stuff and end up with car payment, credit cards, etc and not be able to afford to go to college.
 
green91 said:
I personally thing a Bachelors in IT is equivalent to CS for non-programming disciplines.
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Well that would jut be perfect because I don't want to program much, I know I will have to know some languages though for networking. Right now I'm starting on Java at home just for fun.
 
green91 said:
I don't believe the financial aid part is true, at least in my state. However, I think most students who take a year off after HS never make it into college. It's to easy to make a little money, and then buy stuff and end up with car payment, credit cards, etc and not be able to afford to go to college.
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I know what you mean. But I seriously believe that if I can take a year off, I can get a lot more experience, maybe get a cert or two and self learn some stuff I won't in school, and most importantly, I need to save up for school since all the finances will be on me- don't remember if I mentioned that before, my parents can't help me with money.
I also know of how you get a job, start seeing some money flowing in and all of a sudden you can buy whatever you want, then you think you don't need to go to college, but then you realize you can't afford rent, bills, etc. on $10 an hour lol. I know I can stay from falling into that trap even if I take a year off. It just comes down to will taking a gap year affect financial aid at all or will it look bad to employers, like will they think I am not competent or anything else negative?
 
A prof in a beginning electronics class told us that the main thing a degree tells an employer is that you can successfully start and complete a long term project, namely the degree. I have found that to be very true. Many employers when they post a position will list something like, "Degree required, X number hours in Networking/Admin required, Degree in CS a plus. Must have A+ or equivalent." Check the job listings in your area to see if that holds true where you are at or looking to be employed at.

The sad truth is most 4 year schools are behind the 2 year and vo-tech schools in teaching the newer tech. There is also much benefit in getting a AS or AAS degree at a 2 year school and then the BS at a 4 year school. Most Jr colleges are much cheaper per hour and you can get many/most of the generic(humanities, basic math etc) done at the cheaper rate. It never hurts to have an AAS in computer security or electronics and a BS in Computer Science. Some schools will give you class credit if you earn a cert. so check first.
 
DarkDubzs said:
I want to work in Networking, like as a Network Technician or Admin, etc. If i decide to f*ck trade school or private university for BS in Information Systems, and i instead go to a normal, public State college to get a BS in Computer Science, will i be able to work in Networking and IT?
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I would argue that this is actually one of the better ways to go. People always like to say things like 'the stuff you do in school isn't useful in the real world' and all sorts of garbage like that, but generally these aren't 'big picture' people. Go to school, and while you're there, try to get hired to by your school's IT department for part time work. Try to get a summer internship doing IT; They pay well and there's lot's of them. Maybe try to do a co-op for 6 months. There's no reason for you to have to choose between learning computer science and getting hands on experience with the latest tech. And besides, real, paid work experience from a real company in the industry will always trump the experience you'd get at a tech school.

DarkDubzs said:
I am wary of getting a degree in CS, because all they teach in that is how to code and sh*t, and i dont want to be a programmer or software/hardware engineer- I want to upkeep and build networks like LAN and WAN, and everything else about Networking. But if i did go to State college and got a BS in CS, how would i learn all the stuff about advanced networking?
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Well for starters, I have never met a competent, useful IT person who couldn't write code. It's like finding a competent mechanic who can't drive stick. There aren't really any situations where having some scripting or software development skills aren't useful, and there are many situations where at least having some scripting skills are absolutely necessary.

I would also argue that often times one of the the best ways to learn about something is through code. You can learn a lot about networks doing socket programming in C. You can learn a lot about networks writing web services and APIs that sit on the application layer. You can learn a lot about servers by understanding the software on top of it. If you understand the computer science, you can understand when to use what. If you understand the computer science, behaviors become more predictable. Is a web server that handles requests asynchronously through a non-blocking event loop going to be faster at processing stateless requests than a web server which creates a dedicated thread to handle and join each request? Certainly a good IT person should have an understanding of computer science in the same way that a good fabricator should understand physics/chemistry/material science.

Other things to consider are the way some IT shops are moving organizationally. With ideas like dev ops, some places want their IT ops people to be able to work well to meet the needs of their IT developers. If IT ops don't know how to deploy the development team's releases effectively, that's a problem. The best way to for these teams to work together is for each side to understand each other's needs and practices. For this same reason, an IT developer who doesn't see the world outside whatever function they happen to be writing at the time isn't very practical either.

Also, in many senses IT ops and networking are very closely related to computer science. The most brilliant networking guys I know aren't people who install switches for a living...they're researchers who hold PhDs in computer science, electrical engineering, physics, math, etc. You can go to school for computer science or computer engineering and study a lot of things that are relevant to networking. Not every class in the department is going to be about software engineering.

Finally, I'd just like to point out that this trend of 'only learn the bare minimum set of skills' needs to go away. For some reason when you talk to IT admins, they act like understanding the relationship between a cable's capacitance and the resulting transfer speeds it's capable of are a bad thing. It's as if people think that the only possible thing that could ever be useful is knowing how to configure a certain model of switch, and that's just not how it should be. If people only ever learn the bare minimum they need to understand the things they work with on a typical day, they don't know how to deal with things on an atypical day. Stop worrying about learning the stuff you're going to do at your job. You'll never know with any certainty what you'll be doing. Instead, learn the science behind it. If you know how to do the hard stuff, learning to do the easier stuff will be a piece of cake.

DarkDubzs said:
I also heard yesterday that if you take a year off after you graduate from HS before you go to college, you don't get financial aid. Is that true? I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope its not true. Help on that anyone?
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It may or may not be true depending on where you are. But I'd say that's the least of your worries with taking a year off. Unless you're certain you can get good, technical experience in your year off, your problem solving skills will probably suffer. Take a year off of high school and then try to solve even a basic quantitative problem...you'll probably find it terrifying.
 
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Dogs said:
I would argue that this is actually one of the better ways to go. People always like to say things like 'the stuff you do in school isn't useful in the real world' and all sorts of garbage like that, but generally these aren't 'big picture' people. Go to school, and while you're there, try to get hired to by your school's IT department for part time work. Try to get a summer internship doing IT; They pay well and there's lot's of them. Maybe try to do a co-op for 6 months. There's no reason for you to have to choose between learning computer science and getting hands on experience with the latest tech. And besides, real, paid work experience from a real company in the industry will always trump the experience you'd get at a tech school.



Well for starters, I have never met a competent, useful IT person who couldn't write code. It's like finding a competent mechanic who can't drive stick. There aren't really any situations where having some scripting or software development skills aren't useful, and there are many situations where at least having some scripting skills are absolutely necessary.

I would also argue that often times one of the the best ways to learn about something is through code. You can learn a lot about networks doing socket programming in C. You can learn a lot about networks writing web services and APIs that sit on the application layer. You can learn a lot about servers by understanding the software on top of it. If you understand the computer science, you can understand when to use what. If you understand the computer science, behaviors become more predictable. Is a web server that handles requests asynchronously through a non-blocking event loop going to be faster at processing stateless requests than a web server which creates a dedicated thread to handle and join each request? Certainly a good IT person should have an understanding of computer science in the same way that a good fabricator should understand physics/chemistry/material science.

Other things to consider are the way some IT shops are moving organizationally. With ideas like dev ops, some places want their IT ops people to be able to work well to meet the needs of their IT developers. If IT ops don't know how to deploy the development team's releases effectively, that's a problem. The best way to for these teams to work together is for each side to understand each other's needs and practices. For this same reason, an IT developer who doesn't see the world outside whatever function they happen to be writing at the time isn't very practical either.

Also, in many senses IT ops and networking are very closely related to computer science. The most brilliant networking guys I know aren't people who install switches for a living...they're researchers who hold PhDs in computer science, electrical engineering, physics, math, etc. You can go to school for computer science or computer engineering and study a lot of things that are relevant to networking. Not every class in the department is going to be about software engineering.

Finally, I'd just like to point out that this trend of 'only learn the bare minimum set of skills' needs to go away. For some reason when you talk to IT admins, they act like understanding the relationship between a cable's capacitance and the resulting transfer speeds it's capable of are a bad thing. It's as if people think that the only possible thing that could ever be useful is knowing how to configure a certain model of switch, and that's just not how it should be. If people only ever learn the bare minimum they need to understand the things they work with on a typical day, they don't know how to deal with things on an atypical day. Stop worrying about learning the stuff you're going to do at your job. You'll never know with any certainty what you'll be doing. Instead, learn the science behind it. If you know how to do the hard stuff, learning to do the easier stuff will be a piece of cake.



It may or may not be true depending on where you are. But I'd say that's the least of your worries with taking a year off. Unless you're certain you can get good, technical experience in your year off, your problem solving skills will probably suffer. Take a year off of high school and then try to solve even a basic quantitative problem...you'll probably find it terrifying.
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I'm quoting this because he is saying what I was trying to earlier but much much much better said.
 
as an IT manager who hired a jr. sys admin who has a 4-year cs degree, yea... i don't see the problem... seems to be working out... he's not as strong in the IT and helpdesk side of things as my helpdesk guy, but that's just stuff that comes with experience honestly....
 
Whether you have a CS or CIS degree, you can hold a job in IT or software development. You'll get more IT experience in CIS versus more programming experience in CS. I personally wouldn't recommend CS if you're looking to do networking, as you'll be doing unnecessary amounts of programming as a CS major. I speak from experience switching from a CS to CIS major in college.
 
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