Can we get a list of budget bookshelf speakers and amps?

well i'm bringing back this thread with two amp suggestions i came across while searching for a small amp to use with the computer.

first the pro-ject amp box with digital amplification
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=ampbox&cat=accessories&lang=en

for this amp there is a matching pre-amp is aviable
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=prebox&cat=accessories&lang=en


and second i found a preview from am upcoming amp over at the emotiva forums
http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=185&page=1

both brands are well regarded and price and size make them perfect for pc use when desk space is at a premium.

i think i wait for the final prices and reviews on the emotiva and decide then which one to get.
 
The Emotiva should be fine for the price. I'd still recommend a cheap and/or used receiver over it, but it's not a ripoff. That project audio one I dunno about; depends on the price.
 
Gravestone Doji said:
You're correct, I'm not familiar with their products and have never owned any AV123 offerings. It sound as though you have though. If so and you find their finishes on their speakers are top notch, and claim the value of all their products are exceptional, then I respect your opinion and perhaps I'm mistaken. I just thought it was rather ironic that after reading how great a value these were @ $299, that no such price is currently available. Any perspective customer has only the higher priced finishes to choose from. Like as in, ain't that always the case? Of course it couldn't be the pricier stuff that's on back-order, lol.

Anyway, I appreciate your informing me and others how you feel about AV123 products. Point taken. But perhaps the reason the higher priced finishes are readily available is due to perspective customers (like me) hearing how great these are for $299, only to go onto their website and find the product available at the moment 17% above what they were expecting to pay. In a booming economy that may not deter, but in hard times a 17% price premium for a "finish" upgrade is a tough sell. Even at a 10% premium (which would be more reasonable) it's probably a tough sell in these times.

Again, I appreciate your informed opinion. But this is a very difficult economy and all retailers are struggling. This Friday the Jobs Report will be released and will further indicate just how tough things are out there. Tough times calls for tough measures to move products, or risk the fact that you'll end up with a whole lot of inventory with "nice" finishes. That's all I was trying to say and I'm sorry if that "make no sense" to you.
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I'm another happy AV123 customer (I own a pair of Onix Reference 0.5 speakers...fucking amazing for $300), and their pricing is based on cost of production...not to absorb costs or to price things equally (which screws the buyer of the black finsh).

The economy has nothing to do with it, other than possibly causing them to increase prices due to higher production costs. Good Veneer costs money...I looked at Veneering my speaker stands at one time (decided against it)....you don't want to know how much that would have costed (for 24" stands, it was more than my speakers, but keep in mind that was for a one-off job done by a pro).
 
dandragonrage said:
The Emotiva should be fine for the price. I'd still recommend a cheap and/or used receiver over it, but it's not a ripoff. That project audio one I dunno about; depends on the price.
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iv'e seen the pro-ject one advertised for 200 euro here in austria.( they even sell a small pre and a small tuner for a tiny micro system ;) )
if you need to save on desk space both ones and the sonic t-amp are the best choices imo.
 
There's so much love for the XR57 but not much for the XR55. After all, it's cheaper ($180-200) and if you don't need the extra features (which I certainly don't, given that I just want to power speakers in a computer audio system), then it's worth every penny.
 
[NOTE: BPA-1 Now discontinued]

I like the Emotiva BPA-1 (I paid 129, I think normally is 150) with my XLS. Dimensions wise, it is about as long as the XLS and is less wide

I've never understood why people recommend the Panasonic XR55/57, unless most people don't have a decent source
 
zachary80 said:
I like the Emotiva BPA-1 (I paid 129, I think normally is 150) with my XLS. Dimensions wise, it is about as long as the XLS and is less wide

I've never understood why people recommend the Panasonic XR55/57, unless most people don't have a decent source
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Uhh, because they are small, efficient, pretty powerful and reasonably priced?
 
Cyrilix said:
There's so much love for the XR57 but not much for the XR55. After all, it's cheaper ($180-200) and if you don't need the extra features (which I certainly don't, given that I just want to power speakers in a computer audio system), then it's worth every penny.
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One problem is that it's awfully hard to find an XR55 anywhere since Panasonic introduced the XR57. I scoured the web for weeks looking for a new 55 before buying a 57. I got it from Amazon for $255 + free shipping.

Zachary80: Do yourself a favor and DON'T try an XR57 with your x-ls. You won't like your BPA-1 very much afterwards. ;)
 
Mr. Wolf said:
One problem is that it's awfully hard to find an XR55 anywhere since Panasonic introduced the XR57. I scoured the web for weeks looking for a new 55 before buying a 57. I got it from Amazon for $255 + free shipping.

Zachary80: Do yourself a favor and DON'T try an XR57 with your x-ls. You won't like your BPA-1 very much afterwards. ;)
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Oh, I see. I got mine about a year ago but I didn't know it had reached EOL. Back then, http://www.jr.com had it.
 
Don't worry, I have no intention to add additional AD/DA conversions into my audio path
 
zachary80 said:
Don't worry, I have no intention to add additional AD/DA conversions into my audio path
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If you think it's audible, go arrange a test with Richard Clarke and proceed to get a lot wealthier. The XR55/XR57 have one of the best SNRs you can get in a receiver at any price range. They're absolutely great if you don't need the extra HDMI features that a receiver like my Pio Elite 91 has.
 
dandragonrage said:
If you think it's audible, go arrange a test with Richard Clarke and proceed to get a lot wealthier. The XR55/XR57 have one of the best SNRs you can get in a receiver at any price range. They're absolutely great if you don't need the extra HDMI features that a receiver like my Pio Elite 91 has.
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On Richard Clarke:
[ I am basing this post on what I know about Clarke and the best information I could find, posted here: http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/ ]

Are you using Clarke to refute that the conversions are likely to alter the sound, which would be part of the source and not covered by his challenge, but also using him to recommend a more expensive amplifier? Besides the fact that paying a couple hundred dollars in addition to travel costs only to take a test is ridiculous, the test is unrealistic and designed to safeguard his money while stirring up controversy. I am all for db tests, but like many I do not have the knowledge, equipment, or time to equalize an amplifier to perfection while providing it with the ideal supporting power. Even then, his test methodology only shows that he can make any two amps sound like the worse one of the two in a controlled environment. Using the results to extrapolate is reckless and misguided. Moreover, Clarke is not exactly clear about his "thousands" of results, which he seems to only judge as pass (12/12 twice) and fail (one or more wrong response). It is possible that if he had tracked r-squared, we would have had a lot more useful data than his generalizations provide. It is good that this test exists, but just like the large DBT cable test I participated in, the results need to be carefully interpreted.

Back to the amps:
The XR55/57 may be an exceptionally good amplifier, but I have not heard it. I have heard the BPA-1 with bookshelf speakers, and can say it fits the use well – it sounds great and has far more than enough headroom with my speakers. From what I know about circuit design, I will continue to favor fewer conversions and a simple path, which is why I made the informed choice that I did – the XR55 had been my original favorite for this set up. I just want to put this information out there for consideration because I had not seen anyone make note of the digital nature of the Panasonic that is key to its operation.
 
Imho i bet both the emotiva and panasonic xr55/57 are great choices, it just depends on a persons needs or personal preferences. Not necessarily an apples to oranges comparison but for simplicity's sake it can be. Only need two-channel and want to save a few bucks? Then buy the emotiva. But if you'd like a plethora of features, or plan on future expansion, then pick up the panasonic :)
 
SJetski71 said:
Imho i bet both the emotiva and panasonic xr55/57 are great choices, it just depends on a persons needs or personal preferences. Not necessarily an apples to oranges comparison but for simplicity's sake it can be. Only need two-channel and want to save a few bucks? Then buy the emotiva. But if you'd like a plethora of features, or plan on future expansion, then pick up the panasonic :)
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The voice of reason. This is not that A is significantly greater than B in all circumstances (or B>A), but rather the condition must be taken into account.

I never meant to get into direct amp comparisons, for I haven't heard what all is being recommended. I would rather outline the amps based on what is known and to give my assistance where I have experience
 
dandragonrage said:
I'm willing to bet the Panasonic actually has better SNR than your BPA-1.
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I don't understand why you would even bother to say this without presenting data to back you up.

From what I just checked (each products own manual):
BPA-1:
>100db unweighted SNR
<1% THD
XR55 : 67db SN
.09% THD
Its hard to tell what measuring standards each used, etc

Doing this research I found out that the BPA-1 is now discontinued. Too bad I didn't order more than one, although I understand the Dayton APA150 is based on the same design but with worse line sensing.
 
According to S&V review of the SA-XR70 (same amplifier) the THD was 0.03% at 1W input. It maintained 0.03% THD at reference levels although it did not mention how many watts it took to reach that with the speakers they used.

From a measurements perspective THD-wise it's about the same as a 1k+ Denon receiver.
 
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