California Waiving Environmental Rules For Tesla Battery Factory?

Great Coogly Moogly...

I will give Elon Musk this. He realizes that their are enough suckers like you who will pay a ridiculous premium to feel like they are helping the environment. When in reality the nasty batteries that they use are generally WORSE than burning oil in the long run.

Meanwhile you spend more to feel good while he sits in his three mansions and private airplanes. Kind of like Al Gore telling you to change your life style being that owning 7 houses and a private jet is so greeennn...

But fuck the Koch brothers and all... because they bad!

You might want to research these things on your own instead of being spoonfed them from rightwing ditto heads so you might have a clue what you're talking about.
 
Yes it does matter, despite the flaws of both parties, the GOP has a better economic record in California than democrats. Excessive regulation is in the DNA of the democratic party.
The term "business friendly" can be used by any party, but the results of over regulations, higher corporate taxes and other stagnating polices are owned by the Democratic party. Sure the GOP has big government rinos, but they are being weeded out.
The conservative polices of the GOP are about lower taxes, and less regulation, and that is business friendly, especially small businesses, the liberal polices of the Democrats have always been about regulation and higher taxes, and that kills small business, yet allows cronyism for big businesses like GE.

Just to play devil's advocate here for a second and actually entertain this idea that democrats are all about evil regulation and all that other nonsense you vomited on your keyboard, why exactly do you think dems are for this? I'm pretty sure I know the answer and it's going to have something to do with total control over peoples lives, new world order, or something other ranting of a lunatic, but I'd like to hear your view on why you think dems just love to control everything. Like what is it? Are we all just a bunch of maniacal power hungry tyrants who want to rule you with an iron fist, whilst simultaneously being tree hugger sissy liberals promoting the gay agenda? I mean, just lay it on me here.
 
Just to play devil's advocate here for a second and actually entertain this idea that democrats are all about evil regulation and all that other nonsense you vomited on your keyboard, why exactly do you think dems are for this? I'm pretty sure I know the answer and it's going to have something to do with total control over peoples lives, new world order, or something other ranting of a lunatic, but I'd like to hear your view on why you think dems just love to control everything. Like what is it? Are we all just a bunch of maniacal power hungry tyrants who want to rule you with an iron fist, whilst simultaneously being tree hugger sissy liberals promoting the gay agenda? I mean, just lay it on me here.

Your state is going straight down the crapper and has been for about 20 years, which ironically is when it pretty much went Democrat, so go ahead and keep feeling great about being a Democrat considering the biggest shit holes in the country are all Democrat controlled.
 
Your state is going straight down the crapper and has been for about 20 years, which ironically is when it pretty much went Democrat, so go ahead and keep feeling great about being a Democrat considering the biggest shit holes in the country are all Democrat controlled.

See I wasnt aware that a state couldnt instantly just go down the toilet the moment one political power takes control, and instead isnt the result of the previous years of administration leading up to that moment. But I guess you probably blame Obama for the recession in this country too, cuz ya know "it's on his watch!".
 
And Ill give you one hint as to which states *take* the most of all overall funds and "welfare" while paying the *least,* all the while having the worst education, healthcare, overall infrastructure, and worst standards of living... it's 'dem 'dere red states all down south.

I've lived and worked all over the country, hell I've lived in Detroit and you can't get much more "shithole" than that... unless you live in the South.
You mean the ones closest to the border (including California)? Shocker. Now over half of the students in California are Mexican and the state ranks among the worst in per pupil spending.
 
Your state is going straight down the crapper and has been for about 20 years, which ironically is when it pretty much went Democrat, so go ahead and keep feeling great about being a Democrat considering the biggest shit holes in the country are all Democrat controlled.

California, Washington, and New York are all Democrat controlled and pretty much everywhere else in the country is nearly unlivable, so I don't know what you could possibly be talking about.

And California is doing great economiclaly now, specifically because it chose not to engage in Republican Policies.
 
See I wasnt aware that a state couldnt instantly just go down the toilet the moment one political power takes control, and instead isnt the result of the previous years of administration leading up to that moment. But I guess you probably blame Obama for the recession in this country too, cuz ya know "it's on his watch!".
California has had decades of decay under Democratic control. How is that bullet train working out for everyone?

Oh and over 5 and a half years in power and you still think Obama is faultless? Are you kidding me?
 
XvMMvX said:
Great Coogly Moogly...

I will give Elon Musk this. He realizes that their are enough suckers like you who will pay a ridiculous premium to feel like they are helping the environment. When in reality the nasty batteries that they use are generally WORSE than burning oil in the long run.

Meanwhile you spend more to feel good while he sits in his three mansions and private airplanes. Kind of like Al Gore telling you to change your life style being that owning 7 houses and a private jet is so greeennn...

But fuck the Koch brothers and all... because they bad!
You might want to research these things on your own instead of being spoonfed them from rightwing ditto heads so you might have a clue what you're talking about.
You might want to do your own research. Last I checked toxic battery plants are still toxic...

Price gives us a good estimation of how much energy was used to produce something. Clearly Tesla's cars generate a lot of pollution to produce, when they even have to be subsidized by taxpayers.

The California hypocrites close the Sriracha plant because people don't like the smell, but are willing to waive them for toxic battery plants. Awesome.
 
God does anyone with a "conservative" worldview understand what the word hypocrisy actually means? because there is absolutely no evidence that any of them do
 
Arguably, California's evironmental laws are a bit on the side of excessive. That said, this a waffle of epic proportions. They've already bankrupted themselves trying to enforce the excess of legislation in the state, now they can bury themselves even further fighting the bad PR and countersuits from companies believing they were treated unfairly for their environmentally unfriendly endeavors previously denied.
 
You might want to do your own research. Last I checked toxic battery plants are still toxic...

Price gives us a good estimation of how much energy was used to produce something. Clearly Tesla's cars generate a lot of pollution to produce, when they even have to be subsidized by taxpayers.

The California hypocrites close the Sriracha plant because people don't like the smell, but are willing to waive them for toxic battery plants. Awesome.
What's toxic about them? How much? Have other battery plants in the U.S. had violations or concerns? Also are the concerns local or in general?

All I see in this thread is a lot of talking out of asses with little data or proof to quantify or specify the actual environmental impact this may have.

I'm a motorhead through and through (show a rebuilt a first gen Camaro and a Mustang is my current daily driver), but Tesla is an incredible company that set a benchmark others in the motor industry, and business in general, to strive for. Just to name a few of their accomplishments, they repaid their federal loans with interest, made all of their awesome patents available, and are shifting the paradigm of the automotive sales industry to benefit the consumer. A lot of the bullshit I'm seeing in this thread just seems like idiots parroting the drivel they heard on the news.
 
The People's Republic of California is a complete dump. I feel bad for the sane sections of the state (central, north) because they keep getting dragged down by the proglodytes (e.g. man-made drought due to environazis, warning labels on every product even if it doesn't cause cancer because you might get sued by some shyster, being the only state that allows protestors and beggars/panhandlers to trespass on private property in the name of "free speech")
 
The People's Republic of California is a complete dump. I feel bad for the sane sections of the state (central, north) because they keep getting dragged down by the proglodytes (e.g. man-made drought due to environazis, warning labels on every product even if it doesn't cause cancer because you might get sued by some shyster, being the only state that allows protestors and beggars/panhandlers to trespass on private property in the name of "free speech")

Yeah nobody wants to live in California. What a dump :rolleyes:
 
God does anyone with a "conservative" worldview understand what the word hypocrisy actually means? because there is absolutely no evidence that any of them do

Yes, which is why i cant stand liberals because a bigger form a hypocrisy you will not find
I find that liberal hypocrites are the ones who complain about capitalism and how corporations control government and then want that same government to fix a problem even though its only going to do whats in corporations interest. Its like taxing the "Rich". Rich people pay 15% in capital gains, their income tax is irrelevant. Its the rich taxing the up and coming keeping them down so they don't have to deal with new money in their neighborhoods putting up gaudy houses and labeled social justice. Its like looking out for environment when it happens to hurt the rival of their biggest corporate donor. Its about putting regulations in that are supposed to keep mega corporations in check and they get cool names like something americans something equal opportunity something act that only puts regulation on small businesses making THEIR business more expensive to run preventing them from competeing with large companies and any kind of actual free market. Which cuts back on jobs, which then means theres less money being circulated etc. etc.

And let me go a step further. The Republican party wants to do the exact same thing. Its no different. They just talk about free markets blahblabhlah when theres a regulation hurting their corporate donor instead of a Dem's corporate donor. AND NO i dont think corporations are evil. I think they are doing exactly what their graded to do. You think corporations dont want welfare? HAH how do you think their going to convince extremely poor people to buy their shitty stuff that they dont actually need if they dont have money to buy it with.

The problem with politics is MONEY. Pure and simple money. Conservatives get called lunatics. But think about this for a second. The majority of institutions that have a vested interested in the status quo call conservatives lunatics. Including Republicans. You don't like the status quo, yet you keep putting the same people in office. Libertarians and Tea Party people are at least trying to cause real change. I put myself in the first camp mostly, which makes me a right wing nut job right? Yet i see Liberals as continually voting the same people into office and expecting a different outcome. The Tea Party and Libertarians get ridiculed, called racist, are attempted to be subverted and destroyed at every major opportunity, only paid attention to when they HAVE to be because establishment guy X will lose if he doesn't and somehow we are looked upon as being stupid. Think about small government argument. Dems traditionally think its foolish and will result in massive injustice etc. etc. But if money is the problem and you take power away from the government and keep it small how much does that money then influence? It's literally a direct counter. What i don't understand is while i am pissed on by the left i don't see ANY alternatives to dealing with the problem outside of more of the same problems. To conservatives the left is the communist party talking about the struggling revolution that in the name of justice so in order to get justice were going to force things to be unequal to counter a problem that causes inequality instead of fixing the fucking problem. I like how Democrats keep voting people with massive amounts of money like pelosi into office and complain about those rich politicians. Look at Obamacare, left touts it as free healthcare, which its not and goes on and on about how awesome it is. Do you see the left elites using that healthcare services? NO why? because they can get better because they can afford better. Meantime the people who arn't ontop get crushed with shitty expensive options. There is LITERALLY a punishment for being a corporation providing healthcare thats TOO GOOD. So they switch the burden to the consumer, save a fuckton of money and the execs can afford to get healthcare on their own or don't even need insurance so no fucks given and bottom line increases and they get to blame the same people who they had craft the bill for them. Its comical and somehow sold by the left as a great step forward in providing healthcare. if you can find a way to design healthcare in a way to let corporations make more money and punish the people who had healthcare more i challenge you to explain it. Again, i'm not anti corporation, i'm anti money in politics. I want their to actually BE free markets and people to have options and businesses to be forced to compete in an honest manner or fail. Government should be there to ensure consume safety and protect for the common good. Not provide for itselfs, tell people how to live and prop up corporations and multinationals all in the name of "social justice" or making the wrongs right and you think i'm a hypocrite?
 
This doesn't make any sense.

You can still buy really good healthcare insurance outside of the exchanges for a very expensive price, OR they have enough money where they don't need insurance period.The point is people who HAD really good health insurance through there company are about to lose it. The companies are literally being penalized for providing it and have to either lower the plan or get rid of it completely to remove the penalty. This means that only the people at the very top will be able to get amazing health insurance if they want it due to affordability issues. It also means the companies healthcare burden (as a cost) is going to actually go down
 
Money talks, bullshit walks...
This is gonna be one of the most environmentally UNFRIENDLY battery plant in the existence, due to it's sheer size (#1) and the type of chemicals used on the process...

maybe not. Regulations and capitalism aside, Ebon Musk is an environmentalist anyways.
 
You can still buy really good healthcare insurance outside of the exchanges for a very expensive price, OR they have enough money where they don't need insurance period.The point is people who HAD really good health insurance through there company are about to lose it. The companies are literally being penalized for providing it and have to either lower the plan or get rid of it completely to remove the penalty. This means that only the people at the very top will be able to get amazing health insurance if they want it due to affordability issues. It also means the companies healthcare burden (as a cost) is going to actually go down

We have really good insurance and aren't about to lose it through my wife's employers. We've actually used ours for major stuff. A lot of people claiming to have great insurance haven't really used it for anything major. In any case, I think the country is burnt to a crisp on this issue and considering that little gets done in Washington these days, I think most people are willing to let this play out. If the law is that bad, it will get repealed. We've repealed plenty of bad laws in the past, it's not that hard to do. But like most laws, the ACA is not as bad as it's opponents say nor as good as it's proponents claim. The truth is almost always in the middle.
 
“It would help them speed the process,” Sen. Ted Gaines said after a Friday meeting with Tesla officials at the company's Palo Alto headquarters and assembly line in Fremont, east of San Francisco.

Speed the process of what, wrecking the environment with increased Lithium mining, chemical output from the plant, or beating some other state to having the plant?

Wonder if it has anything to do with these industrial buildings that are almost finished, down the road from the Tesla HQ? http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18164469/I-880-Dixon-Landing-Road-Fremont-CA/
 
Did you really just relate the South to a higher standard of living? Shit son, those are some nice rose tinted glasses you have... FYI the south is the toliet bowl of the United States.

I don't know anyone who retires and moves North.
 
Retires? You mean when they stop working and can't afford to live somewhere good anymore?

However you want to twist it to make it work for you go for it, but many people work their entire lives so they can move to the beautiful beaches in the South.

Oh and beach front houses aren't cheap. ;)
 
We have really good insurance and aren't about to lose it through my wife's employers. We've actually used ours for major stuff. A lot of people claiming to have great insurance haven't really used it for anything major. In any case, I think the country is burnt to a crisp on this issue and considering that little gets done in Washington these days, I think most people are willing to let this play out. If the law is that bad, it will get repealed. We've repealed plenty of bad laws in the past, it's not that hard to do. But like most laws, the ACA is not as bad as it's opponents say nor as good as it's proponents claim. The truth is almost always in the middle.

Assuming its meets the really good level and is provided by a private employer your tax hasn't hit yet, got a few more years, but its coming. If your employer keeps it i applaud, really i do. Thats doing the right thing. I just dont have faith that the majority will do the right thing.
 
However you want to twist it to make it work for you go for it, but many people work their entire lives so they can move to the beautiful beaches in the South.

Oh and beach front houses aren't cheap. ;)
The rim of the toilet bowl can be nicer, however that doesn't change the overall crater the South is in the U.S economy, standard of living, citizen health, education, or pretty much any other metric one can use. Those are the facts, and people should be aware of them if they're going harp on like they don't live in the asshole of the US, which is the South.
 
Money should dictate resources, not politics.

We grow rice in the desert....
 
The rim of the toilet bowl can be nicer, however that doesn't change the overall crater the South is in the U.S economy, standard of living, citizen health, education, or pretty much any other metric one can use. Those are the facts, and people should be aware of them if they're going harp on like they don't live in the asshole of the US, which is the South.

I think the north is the biggest pile of shit on the planet and refuse to live north of North Carolina and to put it in perspective i'd rather live in kabul the new york, you have your opinion i have mine. I like living in the south. I like that people are friendly. I like that i've never been unemployed for longer then a month. I like you can go to college for free. I like that my money goes alot further than it does up north. I like the weather too. I am getting a bit tired of people from up north moving down here and trying to ruin the south too but i understand it can't be helped.
 
I think the north is the biggest pile of shit on the planet and refuse to live north of North Carolina and to put it in perspective i'd rather live in kabul the new york, you have your opinion i have mine. I like living in the south. I like that people are friendly. I like that i've never been unemployed for longer then a month. I like you can go to college for free. I like that my money goes alot further than it does up north. I like the weather too. I am getting a bit tired of people from up north moving down here and trying to ruin the south too but i understand it can't be helped.

What's the George Carlin quote? When someone moves to the south it raises the average intelligence in both places?
 
Dear god, do any of you know how overboard environmental laws are?
Here in Ohio its crazy ridiculous, when I worked in a foundry ALL WATER being used had to leave CLEANER than it came in. Every day started with changing then cleaning hundreds of filters and checking infrared and UV light filters for proper function.
Now I'm all for taking care of the environment, but sometimes too much is just that.
 
Dear god, do any of you know how overboard environmental laws are?
Here in Ohio its crazy ridiculous, when I worked in a foundry ALL WATER being used had to leave CLEANER than it came in. Every day started with changing then cleaning hundreds of filters and checking infrared and UV light filters for proper function.
Now I'm all for taking care of the environment, but sometimes too much is just that.

In fairness didn't a river on ohio catch on fire once?
 
What's the George Carlin quote? When someone moves to the south it raises the average intelligence in both places?

What i never understood is why folks from the north feel compelled to bother us down here? Its like a past time i gota bash the south so i can ignore my own problems and feel good about myself.
 
What i never understood is why folks from the north feel compelled to bother us down here? Its like a past time i gota bash the south so i can ignore my own problems and feel good about myself.

Probably because you suck away all of our tax money and then vote as a block for people that do everything in their power to make the country worse, especially for you
 

Not what he's talking about. The citizens of the state of California pay nearly $30B more per year in federal taxes that are not then spent back in the state; the majority of "red" states receive substantially more in federal spending than they pay into it, meaning all of them only survive off the government teat. The primary exception to this is Texas due to their natural resources.

And with 53M Americans and 15.6M foreign visitors annually (not to mention the largest population in the union) clearly the prevailing opinion is that CA is "a shithole". Not to mention we're still the 8th largest economy in the world, with a GDP 50% higher than Texas'.
 
I think the north is the biggest pile of shit on the planet and refuse to live north of North Carolina and to put it in perspective i'd rather live in kabul the new york, you have your opinion i have mine. I like living in the south. I like that people are friendly. I like that i've never been unemployed for longer then a month. I like you can go to college for free. I like that my money goes alot further than it does up north. I like the weather too. I am getting a bit tired of people from up north moving down here and trying to ruin the south too but i understand it can't be helped.

I grew up in Western North Carolina. It's a beautiful place and the state overall has a great diversity of environments. There are some very stubborn pockets of poverty though. The collapse of the textile and tobacco industries hit a lot of smaller towns and areas VERY hard. If you drive through these areas the signs of decay are still very obvious.
 
Probably because you suck away all of our tax money and then vote as a block for people that do everything in their power to make the country worse, especially for you

So you complain that our politicians are smarter then yours and get get a bigger piece of the pie of the tax money on one hand, and then tell us we are stupid for wanting to get rid of those programs all together? I'm not going to lie you have me chuckling pretty hard
 
So you complain that our politicians are smarter then yours and get get a bigger piece of the pie of the tax money on one hand, and then tell us we are stupid for wanting to get rid of those programs all together? I'm not going to lie you have me chuckling pretty hard

The programs that get you more tax money are the programs your politicians are always trying to cut and eliminate. Keep laughing.
 
I grew up in Western North Carolina. It's a beautiful place and the state overall has a great diversity of environments. There are some very stubborn pockets of poverty though. The collapse of the textile and tobacco industries hit a lot of smaller towns and areas VERY hard. If you drive through these areas the signs of decay are still very obvious.

Yea it is, why i'm happy with all the manufacturing moving south. I'm unsure on why it keeps getting south and west of north carolina instead of in north carolina... wait no i'm not. But yeah i really hope the furniture industry does well. The textile aint never coming back though sa far as a mass job market
 
So you complain that our politicians are smarter then yours and get get a bigger piece of the pie of the tax money on one hand, and then tell us we are stupid for wanting to get rid of those programs all together? I'm not going to lie you have me chuckling pretty hard

I guess that's one way to sell it. The other is rank hypocrisy of a group of people bemoaning how liberalism kills economies and how government is evil, while on the other hand their economies aren't self sustaining and require liberal run states, with superior economies, to subsidize them via the government via wealth redistribution.

But you know, whatever.
 
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