California Waiving Environmental Rules For Tesla Battery Factory?

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:
Did you really just relate the South to a higher standard of living? Shit son, those are some nice rose tinted glasses you have... FYI the south is the toliet bowl of the United States.
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I lived in Long Beach/Lakewood area for many years, and you are wearing rose tinted glasses if you think large parts of California aren't straight shit holes. At least the cost of living in the South is a lot cheaper and less liberal bullshit.

McFry said:
Calm your tits truck drivers, this is simply a situation of the pro's outweighing the cons. The regs are put there for good reason, and it's not to nickel and dime companies. The only reason Tesla isnt being held to this standard is because what they are designing will help accelerate the enviro-friendly technology that put those regs there in the first place. They're looking at the longterm here.
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Your right, they are looking to the future, they are looking at the fact that if Tesla, a "green" poster child goes somewhere else, then it shows just how shitty of a business environment CA is. So the end result is CA basically admitting their laws/regulations are fucked up and they are willing to give waivers just to try and keep a well known company from going out of state.

Let me guess, you think the government should pick winners and losers right? that regulations and laws should only be applied to that which you dont like?
 
darkstarcow said:
I lived in Long Beach/Lakewood area for many years, and you are wearing rose tinted glasses if you think large parts of California aren't straight shit holes. At least the cost of living in the South is a lot cheaper and less liberal bullshit.
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Everywhere has its shitholes... it's the rampant poverty, abundance of racism, general lack of education, infrastructure, and modern civilization that permeates the south that gives it that American "Southern Charm."

Besides, I'd take liberal bullshit over having to worry about how many of my relatives the toothless hillbilly chick I'm dating shares DNA with any day of the week.

Oh who am I kidding, they don't worry about that stuff in the south...
 
darkstarcow said:
Let me guess, you think the government should pick winners and losers right? that regulations and laws should only be applied to that which you dont like?
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I think it's ok to waive a regulation temporarily to get a new system up a running. What is so hard to understand about this? The businesses bound to current regulations arent contributing towards a solution, Tesla is. It's called investing in the future.
 
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:
Besides, I'd take liberal bullshit over having to worry about how many of my relatives the toothless hillbilly chick I'm dating shares DNA with any day of the week.

Oh who am I kidding, they don't worry about that stuff in the south...
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FYI I live in Charleston SC and our fair city has been voted #1 most attractive women several times in a row :) I dont know how and I dont know why, but if you're a 6 you can easily score yourself a 9. It's kind of ridiculous around here.
 
Maxx said:
It's even deeper than that. Would people prefer to have the factory built in China with even fewer restrictions, which would also displace American jobs? Considering this company builds something that is supposed to be an improvement for the environment, it seems pretty hilarious to me that people complain about this impact. Now, I fully understand that there are valid reasons to be against this, mainly that it shows favoritism. Well...of course it does. If you want to encourage green industries where only the finished product is greener (while the manufacturing process remains at least partially un-green) than you have to give them some breaks on that end of the line. The big picture is the overall environmental impact.
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Oh please....take a look at Musk's other venture, SolarCity. $1 billion in tax credits and subsidies, allegedly to "create jobs"...and then they buy their panels from china, who has been flooding the market with government subsidized panels.
 
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:
... FYI the south is the toliet bowl of the United States.
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That's funny.

If the South is the toliet [sic] bowl of the United States, that must make Los Angeles the Septic Tank.

I'll give you one hint which state spends over 42% of the total welfare spending of the entire US, it's west of Texas...
 
McFry said:
Calm your tits truck drivers, this is simply a situation of the pro's outweighing the cons. The regs are put there for good reason, and it's not to nickel and dime companies. The only reason Tesla isnt being held to this standard is because what they are designing will help accelerate the enviro-friendly technology that put those regs there in the first place. They're looking at the longterm here.
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Why shouldn't they be held to the same standard? This is all about waiving environmental standards to increase a companies profitability. If this was the Koch brothers planning this, there would outrage. Oh, wait, Elon Musk, oh that's OK then.
 
nutzo said:
Of course.
Only the rich people who donate/bribe the correct politicians should be allowed to build factories.

/sarcasm
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The sad thing is that it's not even sarcasm, it's the truth.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/214857-who-rules-america

The analysts found that when controlling for the power of economic elites and organized interest groups, the influence of ordinary Americans registers at a "non-significant, near-zero level." The analysts further discovered that rich individuals and business-dominated interest groups dominate the policymaking process.
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The only thing green about "Going Green" is the money, just like "buy guns, and gold"
Libs have global climate change, and conservatives have the financial collapse or Apocalypse.
Both have some legitimate concerns, but neither side cares about the cause, only the cash.
The people that actually care about the issues are pushed aside by politicians so they can ride the money train.
If this deal goes through, it will just be another example of crony capitalism.
 
Why dont they just build it in uninhabited desert? seems to me would take environmental impact to who gives a fuck
 
spugnor said:
Funny thing is, you are wrong. Socialism, by it's very nature, tends to stifle innovation and risk takers. After all, why spend money building something that the state or people can later say "we don't like this, we take it." Or even worse "we don't like this so we put you out of business."

But socialists need money to fund their socialist agendas. And if you drive out all of the business, who will fund anything? Certainly not the feeloaders. Businesses drive the economy, make your state too unfriendly, and you are out of cash fast.

California was fortunate early on in the tech boom, but now the chickens are coming home to roost. Now the bills are coming due, and companies are leaving in droves, because they can't function in CA.

Send em to the SE. We're business friendly, because the politicians and people down south have finally realized that pro business = a higher standard of living.
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Exactly.

People think states like CA are what they are because of idiot policies. No, it's because they were pro-business and got so prosperous some politician decided the state could afford stupid policies. It takes a while, but the bill always arrive. Now it's downhill.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
Exactly.

People think states like CA are what they are because of idiot policies. No, it's because they were pro-business and got so prosperous some politician decided the state could afford stupid policies. It takes a while, but the bill always arrive. Now it's downhill.
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Many forget that CA was a big GOP state not to long ago...
California voted Republican in every presidential election from 1952 to 1992 with only one exception (1964). In those days, California was renowned for having some of the most right-wing voting districts in the country (in Southern California's Orange County) in those days California was equally renowned for its prosperity. Since 1992, the state has been overwhelmingly Democrat, and — while flooded with illegal immigrants — native Californians have been fleeing to other states, and the economy has gone down the toilet. Is that all just a coincidence?
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pigster said:
Why shouldn't they be held to the same standard? This is all about waiving environmental standards to increase a companies profitability. If this was the Koch brothers planning this, there would outrage. Oh, wait, Elon Musk, oh that's OK then.
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The koch brother would not have such a bad reputation if they invested in forward thinking technologies like Elon Musk does. They are purely profiteers serving their own best interests. Elon is genuinely interested in helping the world. Do you think the Koch brothers would ever invest in the things Elon does? Or try outdo him? Of course not, because they dont give a fuck about that stuff.

Think of it like razing a rainforest to build a nuclear power plant. Sure the rain forest is gone now and that sucks, but hey we now have abundant electricity for millions of people removing the need for even more rain forest destruction in the future. It's a NET win.
 
McFry said:
The koch brother would not have such a bad reputation if they invested in forward thinking technologies like Elon Musk does. They are purely profiteers serving their own best interests. Elon is genuinely interested in helping the world. Do you think the Koch brothers would ever invest in the things Elon does? Or try outdo him? Of course not, because they dont give a fuck about that stuff.
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Keep drinking the Kool Aid
 
cdr_74_premium said:
It doesn't matter what political party is/was in power. Excessive regulations are not business friendly, and money will go somewhere else. That's the real issue.
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Yes it does matter, despite the flaws of both parties, the GOP has a better economic record in California than democrats. Excessive regulation is in the DNA of the democratic party.
The term "business friendly" can be used by any party, but the results of over regulations, higher corporate taxes and other stagnating polices are owned by the Democratic party. Sure the GOP has big government rinos, but they are being weeded out.
The conservative polices of the GOP are about lower taxes, and less regulation, and that is business friendly, especially small businesses, the liberal polices of the Democrats have always been about regulation and higher taxes, and that kills small business, yet allows cronyism for big businesses like GE.
 
cptnjarhead said:
Yes it does matter, despite the flaws of both parties, the GOP has a better economic record in California than democrats. Excessive regulation is in the DNA of the democratic party.
The term "business friendly" can be used by any party, but the results of over regulations, higher corporate taxes and other stagnating polices are owned by the Democratic party. Sure the GOP has big government rinos, but they are being weeded out.
The conservative polices of the GOP are about lower taxes, and less regulation, and that is business friendly, especially small businesses, the liberal polices of the Democrats have always been about regulation and higher taxes, and that kills small business, yet allows cronyism for big businesses like GE.
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I lol'd
 
McFry said:
The koch brother would not have such a bad reputation if they invested in forward thinking technologies like Elon Musk does. They are purely profiteers serving their own best interests. Elon is genuinely interested in helping the world. Do you think the Koch brothers would ever invest in the things Elon does? Or try outdo him? Of course not, because they dont give a fuck about that stuff.

Think of it like razing a rainforest to build a nuclear power plant. Sure the rain forest is gone now and that sucks, but hey we now have abundant electricity for millions of people removing the need for even more rain forest destruction in the future. It's a NET win.
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Great Coogly Moogly...

I will give Elon Musk this. He realizes that their are enough suckers like you who will pay a ridiculous premium to feel like they are helping the environment. When in reality the nasty batteries that they use are generally WORSE than burning oil in the long run.

Meanwhile you spend more to feel good while he sits in his three mansions and private airplanes. Kind of like Al Gore telling you to change your life style being that owning 7 houses and a private jet is so greeennn...

But fuck the Koch brothers and all... because they bad!
 
XvMMvX said:
Great Coogly Moogly...

I will give Elon Musk this. He realizes that their are enough suckers like you who will pay a ridiculous premium to feel like they are helping the environment. When in reality the nasty batteries that they use are generally WORSE than burning oil in the long run.

Meanwhile you spend more to feel good while he sits in his three mansions and private airplanes. Kind of like Al Gore telling you to change your life style being that owning 7 houses and a private jet is so greeennn...

But fuck the Koch brothers and all... because they bad!
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wikipedian_protester.png
 
cptnjarhead said:
Yes it does matter, despite the flaws of both parties, the GOP has a better economic record in California than democrats.
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The law in question here that that crazy liberal Jerry Brown is trying to circumvent was singed into law by that even crazier liberal Ronald Regan. I find it beyond ironic that the hero of the modern conservative movement is probably FAR too liberal for today's conservatives.
 
We as people need to decide what we value and how to price in negative externalities into a business (i.e., dumping battery acid into the water supply). Right now companies use regulatory and tax arbitrage as a race to the bottom; find some sucker state/country that is so desperate that they'll give up that ass without any lube.

And all this "pro-business" nonsense, that's how we had rivers catching on fire, child labor, etc. That's why Tianjin in China smells like burning electronics in all hours of the day. There has to be a happy medium.
 
The rules only apply to those they want them to apply to. Can't do nuclear, can't do coal, but WINDFARMS, YAY! How many eagles and other birds have those killed? SOLAR, YAY! Yet, solar farms are causing birds to burst into flames in mid air, when I'm the only bird that should ever do that at all. It's OK to kill birds that way, but an oil slick, OMG NO! Last time I checked dead is dead no matter how you got there.

So-called "environmentalism" and "green" crap is just hypocritical crap. They don't care one bit about the planet. They just force regulations on who they want when they want, and then they waive the rules whenever it suits their interests. It's all politics and control. Those of us who really care about the natural world who could provide sensible solutions are never listened too.

I suppose I'll be freezing my tailfeathers off through another abnormally cold winter while the greens lecture everyone about the evils of carbon and "climate change"... As if the climate were ever constant. :rolleyes:
 
Phoenix333 said:
The rules only apply to those they want them to apply to. Can't do nuclear, can't do coal, but WINDFARMS, YAY! How many eagles and other birds have those killed? SOLAR, YAY! Yet, solar farms are causing birds to burst into flames in mid air, when I'm the only bird that should ever do that at all. It's OK to kill birds that way, but an oil slick, OMG NO! Last time I checked dead is dead no matter how you got there.

So-called "environmentalism" and "green" crap is just hypocritical crap. They don't care one bit about the planet. They just force regulations on who they want when they want, and then they waive the rules whenever it suits their interests. It's all politics and control. Those of us who really care about the natural world who could provide sensible solutions are never listened too.

I suppose I'll be freezing my tailfeathers off through another abnormally cold winter while the greens lecture everyone about the evils of carbon and "climate change"... As if the climate were ever constant. :rolleyes:
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Does anyone on this forum know the difference between climate and weather?
 
mavrocket said:
That's funny.

If the South is the toliet [sic] bowl of the United States, that must make Los Angeles the Septic Tank.

I'll give you one hint which state spends over 42% of the total welfare spending of the entire US, it's west of Texas...
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And Ill give you one hint as to which states *take* the most of all overall funds and "welfare" while paying the *least,* all the while having the worst education, healthcare, overall infrastructure, and worst standards of living... it's 'dem 'dere red states all down south.

I've lived and worked all over the country, hell I've lived in Detroit and you can't get much more "shithole" than that... unless you live in the South.
 
The battery plant will be built in Texas. Tesla has already purchased close to 5000 acres of land in Texas.
 
maverikv said:
Does anyone on this forum know the difference between climate and weather?
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Yes, but unfortunately that topic has become all to polarized as of late, and firmly is in the same category as religion, politics, and health care in that there is no reasoning or logical discourse in any discussion involving them, just who can yell the loudest and point out which groups they hate the most as being the reasoning behind it.
 
m heisty said:
Do you? Seems like a lot of greens lately have been citing weather as evidence of climate change.....
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The temperature in Tulsa on an August afternoon, maybe not, but extreme weather patterns are a symptom of climate change. But its incredibly stupid to go "It was cold today in my town so there's no global warming" and its depressing that anyone actually thinks that's a good argument.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yes, but unfortunately that topic has become all to polarized as of late, and firmly is in the same category as religion, politics, and health care in that there is no reasoning or logical discourse in any discussion involving them, just who can yell the loudest and point out which groups they hate the most as being the reasoning behind it.
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The thing is though that the issue of human made climate change has been turned into a political one by many. The science of the issue has more consensus than ever, the main driver of climate change today is caused by humans in the form of high levels CO2 emissions causing an overall warming of the planet. That's not to say there aren't other factors, nor does it mean that all places on earth will see the same effects, just that CO2 emissions are the biggest driver currently.
 
By Semantics;
Remember: Walk without rhythm and we won't attract the worm.
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I'm white, got no rhythm at all.

I couldn't play chopsticks with an IPod :p
 
The temperature in Tulsa on an August afternoon, maybe not, but extreme weather patterns are a symptom of climate change.
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that's all fine. But these climate change experts don't have 50 years worth of solid data to determine patterns to start with and what they do have means squat over 50 billions years or whatever the hell the age of the earth is today. They can't figure that one out yet either.

But I do know this, I been around living for as long as they got data and my own data say they are full of horse shit. Nothing different, not really, not in any way that you can measure and call a trend or problem.
 
lcpiper said:
that's all fine. But these climate change experts don't have 50 years worth of solid data to determine patterns to start with and what they do have means squat over 50 billions years or whatever the hell the age of the earth is today. They can't figure that one out yet either.

But I do know this, I been around living for as long as they got data and my own data say they are full of horse shit. Nothing different, not really, not in any way that you can measure and call a trend or problem.
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Wtf are you talking about we have temperature records back past the industrial revolution
 
Temperature records are not enough. We have tree rings from trees that are older then that that give an even better picture of the effects of changing climates.
 
Wtf are you talking about we have temperature records back past the industrial revolution
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And yes, there are a few, for only a few cities in a small part of the world, and the records were not consistently kept.
 
And it doesn't batter if you go back 200 years, that's still not far enough to determine if a change is due to man's handiwork or just part of a natural cycle for this planet.
 
lcpiper said:
And it doesn't batter if you go back 200 years, that's still not far enough to determine if a change is due to man's handiwork or just part of a natural cycle for this planet.
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But they do have hundreds of thousands of years worth of atmospheric data to go back on.

ugh nevermind, I said I wouldn't get into these types of discussions. Remember this was about California and a Tesla plant, not global warming/climate change.
 
lcpiper said:
Temperature records are not enough. We have tree rings from trees that are older then that that give an even better picture of the effects of changing climates.
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So you're arguing that we don't have data, by pointing out that we have data...? :confused:
 
mzs_biteme said:
Money talks, bullshit walks...
This is gonna be one of the most environmentally UNFRIENDLY battery plant in the existence, due to it's sheer size (#1) and the type of chemicals used on the process...
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My heart bleeds for our environmental loss.

Now sweeten the pot more to bring the battery factory to California!
 
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