California Waiving Environmental Rules For Tesla Battery Factory?

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I know California wants Tesla's battery factory to be built there but is this really the way to go about it?

The state would exempt Tesla Motors Inc. from some of its toughest environmental regulations as part of an incentive package being discussed with the automaker to build a massive battery factory in California, a key state senator said. “It would help them speed the process,” Sen. Ted Gaines.
 

mzs_biteme

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Money talks, bullshit walks...
This is gonna be one of the most environmentally UNFRIENDLY battery plant in the existence, due to it's sheer size (#1) and the type of chemicals used on the process...
 

TwistedAegis

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While I want this in the state, agree that I'm not sure this is the way to go about it. If it's really seen as worth it, why not subsidize some of the controls needed to comply with said regulations, rather than waiving them; I'd imagine that, some of them at least, particularly for a battery plant, are in place for good reasons.
 
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As a resident in the area with several friends and acquaintances at SpaceX and a few other related companies, the reason Tesla/SpaceX/everybody is looking elsewhere isn't because of any environmental regulations per se.

Tesla wouldn't be able to get this factory's ground broken, have it built, and put it into operation in the state of California without a delay of at least 10-15 years. This is partially due to the massive number of voter-initiative-approved regulations (and it's staggering, building ANY kind of manufacturing in CA is tough), but also because of litigious the state has become. It wouldn't take much for somebody with an axe to grind to file a lawsuit and bog everything down for a few years.

Given Elon Musk's history, I'd be surprised on two counts: the first was if the factory wouldn't already be as environmentally-friendly as technologically possible. The second, would be if he was willing to wait a decade to start building when he could probably have a factory running in Nevada or Texas in less than three.
 

cdr_74_premium

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Crony capitalism (aka market-driven socialism) at its finest. If anything goes wrong, they'll make sure to blame it on the "free market".

It worked really well for Brazil...except for the fact it was a fucking disaster.
 

Advil

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Enviro-Crazy California is going to WAIVE ENVIRO REGS TO ALLOW A BATTERY FACTORY?!!?!?

That should be the new dictionary definition next to the word "hypocrisy."

Of all the states in the union to waive regs for a battery factory, California should be the very bottom entry on the list.
 

SamE

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Money, Its a hit. Don't give me that do goody good bullshit.
 

Cobra

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So they regulate Toyota to the point where it says screw you guys I'm outta here, but waive the regulations for their pet political electric car company. Not surprising.
 

UrielDagda

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Crony capitalism (aka market-driven socialism) at its finest. If anything goes wrong, they'll make sure to blame it on the "free market".

It worked really well for Brazil...except for the fact it was a fucking disaster.

Cracks me up when somebody uses the word socialism as a random pejorative.. Market driven socialism.. That's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.
 

UrielDagda

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This is hilarious. So much for the green pretense.

Yeah this is quite crap.. I can see regulations being a pain in the ass, but the main reason for them being a gigantic pain in the ass is because lawyers spend their lives trying to find any little hole to poke through and nullify them. So you wind up with other lawyers writing something so complex in an attempt to make it bulletproof, it takes years for anybody to be able to interpret it well enough to be able to get to the point of planning to build a factory (not to mention another year or so for the opposing lawyers to find any way they can get around the thing).

A little more common sense, plain English and a hell of a lot less lawyers, it wouldn't be such a damn mess in the first place.
 

lcpiper

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This won't matter, Tesla isn't going to build their battery factory in CA anyway and removing restrictions won't help cause restrictions aren't there to begin with in many other places. Arizona is right there in the mix with Texas and Nevada and damned if it ain't a coincidence that a new copper mine has just about finished opening up here in Arizona.

http://rosemontcopper.com/

Now this mine is going to be profitable whether Tesla set's up their battery factory here or somewhere else but the politicians here are can make a pretty good offer to Tesla and so can Texas. It's hard to say which way they will go but I don't think CA has a hope in hell.
 

deadlift1

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I live in California but the state has had its head up its for so long it can no longer function. Regulations are beyond absurd as are the politicians. Musk will give them the finger and setup shop in Arizona. Meanwhile Jerry Brown will continue to push for his SF to LA speed train that no one wants or even cares about. But hey, what's $100B of tax payer money anyway.
 

DPI

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This is gonna be one of the most environmentally UNFRIENDLY battery plant in the existence, due to it's sheer size (#1) and the type of chemicals used on the process...

Hey whoa. You gotta spill a little sulfuric acid into the river to make a battery omelet.
 

whiz187

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How can Tessla even think about CA, I would not even build a facility in this POS State to manufacture rubber dog shit. Politicians, environmental wackos and Commies have ruined a once great State.
 
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well there you go. It has nothing to do with the environment. It's all about control. Oregon does the same thing.
 

sfsuphysics

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Yeah fuck that shit, don't waive environmental laws to get a BATTERY plant in the state, let some other state take the risks of chemicals leeching in the ground.
 

mynamehere

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Enviro-Crazy California is going to WAIVE ENVIRO REGS TO ALLOW A BATTERY FACTORY?!!?!?

That should be the new dictionary definition next to the word "hypocrisy."

Of all the states in the union to waive regs for a battery factory, California should be the very bottom entry on the list.
You beat me to it.
It's the same old "ends justify the means" game they love to play. They sure are quick to throw their own rules out the window when it benefits their little agenda. They don't give a rat's ass as long as the money flows their way to line their pockets, I mean fund the cause. :mad:
Any intelligent person knows that green vehicles are anything but green as far as production...especially when it comes to building and recycling the batteries.
 

mi7chy

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More like removing some layers of bureaucracy that prevents a US company from competing against foreign companies that have even fewer barriers.
 

Retronym

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you could make a great liberal protectionist argument against lithium mining taking away oil jobs from americans

or point out the bad work conditions of the miners (slave labour!)

or compare geopolitical stability of said mines vs american oil

heh
 

Spidey329

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As a resident in the area with several friends and acquaintances at SpaceX and a few other related companies, the reason Tesla/SpaceX/everybody is looking elsewhere isn't because of any environmental regulations per se.

Tesla wouldn't be able to get this factory's ground broken, have it built, and put it into operation in the state of California without a delay of at least 10-15 years. This is partially due to the massive number of voter-initiative-approved regulations (and it's staggering, building ANY kind of manufacturing in CA is tough), but also because of litigious the state has become. It wouldn't take much for somebody with an axe to grind to file a lawsuit and bog everything down for a few years.

Given Elon Musk's history, I'd be surprised on two counts: the first was if the factory wouldn't already be as environmentally-friendly as technologically possible. The second, would be if he was willing to wait a decade to start building when he could probably have a factory running in Nevada or Texas in less than three.

He's already said that California has a long shot chance because of the issues you've mentioned. He wants the factory completed by 2017. That is not likely to happen in CA. Heck, I think they've already began prepping a site in Nevada just to stay ahead.

Here, near Reno: http://m.startribune.com/?id=269441761
 

King of Heroes

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Now this mine is going to be profitable whether Tesla set's up their battery factory here or somewhere else but the politicians here are can make a pretty good offer to Tesla and so can Texas. It's hard to say which way they will go but I don't think CA has a hope in hell.

Neither does Texas, given that they just passed a law that bans Tesla from directly selling cars in the state (which is kind of their entire business model).
 

malachy

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Neither does Texas, given that they just passed a law that bans Tesla from directly selling cars in the state (which is kind of their entire business model).

You can bet that, if Tesla builds its battery plant in Texas, Texas will repeal that law or grant Tesla an exemption, which would be one more reason for Tesla to build in Texas: to wring a concession from the state for their direct-to-consumer sales model.

No, there's no real chance Tesla will open the factory in CA, and as a life-long resident of that accursed state, I don't blame them.
 

spugnor

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Cracks me up when somebody uses the word socialism as a random pejorative.. Market driven socialism.. That's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.

Funny thing is, you are wrong. Socialism, by it's very nature, tends to stifle innovation and risk takers. After all, why spend money building something that the state or people can later say "we don't like this, we take it." Or even worse "we don't like this so we put you out of business."

But socialists need money to fund their socialist agendas. And if you drive out all of the business, who will fund anything? Certainly not the feeloaders. Businesses drive the economy, make your state too unfriendly, and you are out of cash fast.

California was fortunate early on in the tech boom, but now the chickens are coming home to roost. Now the bills are coming due, and companies are leaving in droves, because they can't function in CA.

Send em to the SE. We're business friendly, because the politicians and people down south have finally realized that pro business = a higher standard of living.
 
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Funny thing is, you are wrong. Socialism, by it's very nature, tends to stifle innovation and risk takers. After all, why spend money building something that the state or people can later say "we don't like this, we take it." Or even worse "we don't like this so we put you out of business."

But socialists need money to fund their socialist agendas. And if you drive out all of the business, who will fund anything? Certainly not the feeloaders. Businesses drive the economy, make your state too unfriendly, and you are out of cash fast.

California was fortunate early on in the tech boom, but now the chickens are coming home to roost. Now the bills are coming due, and companies are leaving in droves, because they can't function in CA.

Send em to the SE. We're business friendly, because the politicians and people down south have finally realized that pro business = a higher standard of living.

Did you really just relate the South to a higher standard of living? Shit son, those are some nice rose tinted glasses you have... FYI the south is the toliet bowl of the United States.
 

sfsuphysics

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Enviro-Crazy California is going to WAIVE ENVIRO REGS TO ALLOW A BATTERY FACTORY?!!?!?

That should be the new dictionary definition next to the word "hypocrisy."

Of all the states in the union to waive regs for a battery factory, California should be the very bottom entry on the list.
Politicians are politicians regardless of what state they are in. They'll give all sorts of tax breaks and bend over backwards to get precious jobs, and the companies will fucking play them all day long with it too.
 
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People don't want to actually see how filthy the resource gathering and various manufacturing processes (and there are many) are to make these batteries for their precious eco cars really are. I'm all for ending or curtailing our oil use, it stinks and it's dangerous, but we can be way smarter than this if we manage to shut down some lobbying BS.
 

kbrickley

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Considering that many of California's environmental laws and other restrictions never should have been passed I see nothing wrong with this ... you can have jobs or you can have regulations ... you cannot have both ;)
 

Jagger100

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More like removing some layers of bureaucracy that prevents a US company from competing against foreign companies that have even fewer barriers.

But its ok to cherry pick which companies have a shot at being viable against foreign companies?
 

Maxx

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More like removing some layers of bureaucracy that prevents a US company from competing against foreign companies that have even fewer barriers.

It's even deeper than that. Would people prefer to have the factory built in China with even fewer restrictions, which would also displace American jobs? Considering this company builds something that is supposed to be an improvement for the environment, it seems pretty hilarious to me that people complain about this impact. Now, I fully understand that there are valid reasons to be against this, mainly that it shows favoritism. Well...of course it does. If you want to encourage green industries where only the finished product is greener (while the manufacturing process remains at least partially un-green) than you have to give them some breaks on that end of the line. The big picture is the overall environmental impact.
 

McFry

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Calm your tits truck drivers, this is simply a situation of the pro's outweighing the cons. The regs are put there for good reason, and it's not to nickel and dime companies. The only reason Tesla isnt being held to this standard is because what they are designing will help accelerate the enviro-friendly technology that put those regs there in the first place. They're looking at the longterm here.
 

Kowan

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Think of the cottage industry needed for storing all of those old environmentally safe spent batteries once new ones are needed...
 

nutzo

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Enviro-Crazy California is going to WAIVE ENVIRO REGS TO ALLOW A BATTERY FACTORY?!!?!?

That should be the new dictionary definition next to the word "hypocrisy."

Of all the states in the union to waive regs for a battery factory, California should be the very bottom entry on the list.

Wrong.
This state is run by Liberal Democrats, who are the biggest hypocrites around.
These politicians would gladly dump oil on the beaches or even sell their constituents into slavery if they thought it would help them get reelected.
 

nutzo

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But its ok to cherry pick which companies have a shot at being viable against foreign companies?

Of course.
Only the rich people who donate/bribe the correct politicians should be allowed to build factories.

/sarcasm
 

Semantics

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Wrong.
This state is run by Liberal Democrats, who are the biggest hypocrites around.
These politicians would gladly dump oil on the beaches or even sell their constituents into slavery if they thought it would help them get reelected.
Lol if you think that California is essentially a one party state ran by liberal democrats you seriously underestimate the influences of the valley and the inclusion of corporate sponsored propositions, because the US supreme court says that paying companies that will get signatures x dollars for y signatures is legal. That being said California republicans tend to differ from national republicans esp when it comes to social issues(as subversive racism isn't acceptable in California)
 
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