California Officially Becomes First in Nation Mandating Solar Power for New Homes

amdmadman

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we need to build things that LAST and which an be reused or recycled to near 100%. We cannot sustain the 980ti yesterady, 1080ti today and 2080ti tomorrow forever. We got blinded and we should admit it. We fell for the devil himself.


Sorry this will never happen. Because even the sjw companies want to make money. Wages for people who buy these products will never be able to make the difference for the cost. Do you think all the companies that donate to left wing positions are not doing so for their benefit? How hard do you think the solar panel companies lobbied for this law.
 
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Wierdo

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Awesome! Long-term responsible planning is good.

Should help their rapidly growing solar/storage industry accelerate its plans and drive the cost of these products lower for the nation as a whole. And with the high cost of electricity there it's usually an easy sell.
 

Evil Scooter

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This. Unfortunately the planet is probably already fucked because people like all the angry complainers in this thread are too short sighted to see that leading in renewable energy would be a great thing for our economy.

As amdmadman pointed out the mining and refinement of the rare earth metals the technologies green retards love is worse for the environment than burning natural gas. And bout being "great for the economy"... sorry.. if solar were that great the gubberment would not need to mandate it to coerce the unwilling to convert. But do go on about being short sighted... lol.
 

THRESHIN

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Nice idea, I really do like it.

My only concern: did they figure out what to do with all the waste solar panels when they wear out? Those things are full of highly toxic chemicals and must be disposed of as hazardous waste. My guess is a big goose egg.
 

pavementeater

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I've been around steel gas tanks my entire life and never saw one leak. I'm sure there were isolated cases of some rusted out 50+ year old ones leaking but that shouldn't mandate the entire state to start pulling perfectly good tanks and replacing them with fiberglass. On top of that they want some pretty convoluted vapor recovery systems that also make no sense at all.
I guess you've never saw an old gas station be ripped apart and had their tanks removed. Normally there is not much left with them.
Steel Tanks do not fare to well when they are buried under ground even if they are used for non fuel storage. Under ground steel tanks have a life span of 15 years if your lucky 20 it can be less for steel fuel tanks.
 

Crystoff

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I wonder:

• If these laws were pushed by the large solar panel manufacturer(s), who will now have guaranteed demand forever.

• Why residential solar has to be mandated, if it's such a compelling idea economically.

• If the environmental costs of producing millions of high tech high material-need panels has been considered.

• If the environmental costs of producing millions of high tech high material-need batteries has been considered.

• If maintenance and replacement of these expensive, limited-life components has been considered.

Sunlight is clean and free - solar power is neither. Interested parties like to pretend they're the same. I'm in favor of solar in principle but am disgusted by the lies and deceit seen everywhere in its promotion.
 

Dayaks

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It won't though, since solar power generation peaks in the mid-day but California's (and almost all developed areas for that matter) electricity demand peaks in the late afternoon to mid-evening. For example, a particularly hot day in August:

View attachment 126108

It actually exacerbates a problem known as the "Duck Curve", a challenge for electricity generation where high solar output in the mid-day forces other generation sources to reduce their output, but are required to rapidly increase their output as the sun begins to set. Expect California's electricity to get even more expensive and more unreliable.

And it takes very inefficient power plants to ramp that quickly.
 

matt167

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solar is great, except it's not. The panels are mined, the batteries are mined and when they are used up, what is left is not recyclable.

Wind energy is actually more sustainable as far as hardware longevity, but they are considered eyesores so California kind of hates them.

Fun fact, The Hoover dam which was a marvel of it's time hydroelectric is now running out of power due to it's own environmental impact ( nothing is free ). But it was finished in 1936 and it is still providing power today. That's an 82 year lifespan if it was decommissioned
 

Red Falcon

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Well when a 800 square foot house is 375,000 dollar plus already, 10k just doesn't seem that much. I doubt it will be noticed in this particular state.
Socialism and Communism = death by a thousand cuts
Or frog in boiling pot.

Either way, this is just one step closer to total enslavement for that State.
 

Dead Parrot

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May have missed it but didn't see any mention of impact on home owner's insurance rates. Would think that having thousands of dollars of exposed panels on the roof will raise rates. Plus roof replacement from storms will likely be much higher. Step 1 - remove solar panels(add $5000 to roofing cost). Step 2 - replace roof. Step 3 - reinstall used solar panels(poking holes in new roof). Step 4 - defend against lawsuits from customers claiming roofers damaged solar panels and new roofs leak. Step 5 - roofing costs become even higher.

Wonder once the additional costs of insurance, battery replacements and higher roofing costs are factored in if this will save any money at all.
 

gamerk2

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I don't understand how anyone can live in that state. The amount of bs that home and business owners deal with.

Well, aside from some of the highest wages, education standards, healthcare, and fastest growing economy in the country, yeah, I see why people would hate living there.
 

Dayaks

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Well, aside from some of the highest wages, education standards, healthcare, and fastest growing economy in the country, yeah, I see why people would hate living there.

Or the soaring cost of living eats that up...

http://time.com/money/5177566/average-income-every-state-real-value/


And leading the charge in high school drop outs...
508FBEA9-DC89-484E-8A26-052A15A96F68.png



Plus the general fuckery in that state telling you what you can and cannot do.

When they have to ramp up the incredibly inefficient power plants each day to offset the solar, pumping out tons of pollution and jacking electric rates, the whole thing is a “green” circle jerk.
 

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nutzo

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And this is the state that recently decided to allow public utilities like PG&E to raise rates to cover the cost of the forest fires they start . . because their insurance cannot cover all of the losses and the politicians do not want the utilities to go under.

So let's see, if I am forced to use solar and can then ditch the electric (for which the bills are going to be higher for the reason said above), is the state going to mandate next that I must have electricity from the power line to support keeping a potentially careless utility in business?

This is just what California needs, more expensive housing.
While the extra cost won't matter much on a $2,000,000 costal home, it will hurt the people buying low cost homes in the lower income areas of the state.
They are saying it will add $8,000 to $10,000 to the average new home.
Based on how their estimate are always way to low, I figure the number will actually be closer to $20,000, and when added to a 30 year mortgage, will be closer to $45,000 in payments.

The utilities are already asking for higher fees for connecting solar panels to the grid.
They have also banned some areas from adding solar panels to existing homes, because the local grid couldn't handle the excess power from the panels.

I live in Southern California, and I've looked at solar panels multiple times. Just doesn't make sense for me as the payback period is way to long.
They advertise a 7-8 year payback, but it always comes out close to 15-20 years for me.
I spend about $1,600 a year on electricity ($100/month + about $400 more during the summer for air conditioning. (2,500 sqft house)
Even if my electric bill was zero, it would take over 12 years to break even on a $20,000 system
When you calculate in interest (either interest on the loan or interest the money would earn if invested instead), the number is closer to 20 years.
 
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I quiet like the look of wind turbines remind me of modern day windmills, quiet soothing to look at.
 

nilepez

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When's California just going to fall off into the ocean?

They want to let the Mexicans in so bad, I saw we give California to Mexico and be done with it.
I'm sure Mexico would love tripling their GDP and have the 4th largest GDP in the world. OTOH, the USA would likely not like using all those taxes, since CA pays more to the feds than the feds pay to them (which is pretty typical for blue states)

I left CA a year and a half ago, never to return. When I bought a Hybrid it was cool and then they tacked on 100 bucks to the license fee. They call it a fee not a tax. What do you think the village idiots will do to a mandatory solar home. " Oh your not paying your fair share, "Kaching." Now where is my train?

When I left, Hepatitis A had reached Orange County from the Southern boarder. Now B & C are there. Along with Measles, Mumps, Polio, HIV, Whooping Cough, Chicken Pox, and any thing else you can think of. Gee I wonder where that came from? So I would not worry about CA they will eventually kill them selves off.

Re solar: my current 5 day forecast is for rain and light snow at higher elevations. I love the four seasons. Is solar efficient around here, not so much.

I'm confused, why did you just put a list of diseases that have vaccines? And why mention HIV, which has been in the USA for at least 35 or 40 years and is undoubtedly in whatever state you live in? Inquiring minds want to know ;)
 

nilepez

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This is just what California needs, more expensive housing.
While the extra cost won't matter much on a $2,000,000 costal home, it will hurt the people buying low cost homes in the lower income areas of the state.
They are saying it will add $8,000 to $10,000 to the average new home.
Based on how their estimate are always way to low, I figure the number will actually be closer to $20,000, and when added to a 30 year mortgage, will be closer to $45,000 in payments.

The utilities are already asking for higher fees for connecting solar panels to the grid.
They have also banned some areas from adding solar panels to existing homes, because the local grid couldn't handle the excess power from the panels.

I live in Southern California, and I've looked at solar panels multiple times. Just doesn't make sense for me as the payback period is way to long.
They advertise a 7-8 year payback, but it always comes out close to 15-20 years for me.
I spend about $1,600 a year on electricity ($100/month + about $400 more during the summer for air conditioning. (2,500 sqft house)
Even if my electric bill was zero, it would take over 12 years to break even on a $20,000 system
When you calculate in interest (either interest on the loan or interest the money would earn if invested instead), the number is closer to 20 years.

I was looking at this earlier today (but sadly can't find the exact link I had, which gave historical prices). Anyway, I think CA is probably looking at 4-5kw arrays. The price on those has dropped dramatically since 2011 (60-70% less as I recall). A quick google search shows the current prices are ~$13,000 and ~$16,000 (b4 tax credits). I'd assume given that they were somewhere between 30,000+ and 45,000 in 2011, there's a decent chance the 8-10k will be doable. However, that won't take you off the grid. Going off the grid (for you) will take (I'm just spitballing) 13-18k after tax credits. But that's before you add some sort of battery to store energy for use at night.

I really have no opinion on whether this is good or not. I mean I like the idea, but 2020 may be a bit soon. Maybe they should start off setting it to houses that cost over a certain amount (maybe 800k?) then lower the threshold as solar prices drop.
 

nilepez

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I quiet like the look of wind turbines remind me of modern day windmills, quiet soothing to look at.
I think they're pretty loud if you're near them, but I do agree that they don't bug me from afar. It definitely lowers power costs. When I was in TX, my power was free from 8pm to 6am. I was in an apt down town and my electric bill was typically under 30 bucks and sometimes under 20.
 

JSumrall

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I've been interested in solar since I was in elementary school in the early 80's. When I bought my home in 2005 I did so much research wanting to have a solar home, but much to my dismay, it is just way too expensive. Basically, take 20 years of what your power bill would be and plan on spending that immediately. Then, 20 years later, plan on spending it again to replace all of your panels and batteries (that you haven't already replaced due to failure or damage).

Honestly, the solar panels themselves aren't even the biggest expense. It is the battery banks required to store enough power to run your home overnight, or through periods of overcast skies or any period of low power output by your panels.
 

nilepez

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I've been interested in solar since I was in elementary school in the early 80's. When I bought my home in 2005 I did so much research wanting to have a solar home, but much to my dismay, it is just way too expensive. Basically, take 20 years of what your power bill would be and plan on spending that immediately. Then, 20 years later, plan on spending it again to replace all of your panels and batteries (that you haven't already replaced due to failure or damage).

Honestly, the solar panels themselves aren't even the biggest expense. It is the battery banks required to store enough power to run your home overnight, or through periods of overcast skies or any period of low power output by your panels.
I'm not sure if that's right or not. For some reason Tesla recommends 2 powerwalls, but each one can hold 13.5 kwh, but they seem to always recommend 2 of htem (not sure why...maybe it's limitations on how much power you can draw at a time)..

But if you need 2, then it's more, but the fact that it's more than the solar itself (assuming you buy a 4-5kw array) shows just how cheap solar arrays have become. Nevertheless, it's expensive and I'm not sure if/when batteries will become cheaper though apparently the latest powerwall has 2x as much storage as PW 1.0 (2.0 costs around 1k more).

Still it's expensive. Maybe if subsidies are sufficient, the increased demand will lower costs (assuming it helps companies achieve economies of scale and that's passed on).
 

BSmith

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I'm all for solar power for those that can afford it, and as others have said the best time to do it is during construction. But to mandate it just feels wrong.

Where are those solar roof tiles that Elon promised us long ago?

Personally in TX, to retrofit my existing old house will cost 20-30k. And that still wouldn't be optimal because the majority of my roof faces east/west, not south. Also we have huge trees. But if I won the lottery I'd still do it (maybe).

I have some neighbors who put them in and have regretted it. The first hail storm that came along destroyed them. So they bought covers to protect them from hail damage. Each time there is a storm they rush around pulling the doors from the garage, as they cannot be permanently mounted on the panels due to nowhere to open them without blocking the panels. Their insurance premiums skyrocketed.

They are 4 years in and tell me they are not going to cover the cost of installation and maintenance for another 17 years, and that is a best case scenario. Quote: "We bought into the marketing bullshit and should have done more homework. We tried to sell the house and no one wants it after they learn of the issues with those panels."

Keep on trucking CA, keep on trucking.
 

MDboyz

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Reusable energy … maybe CA needs to find the way to convert forest fire into energy instead. They have plenty of that all year around.
 

Cyraxx

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Well when a 800 square foot house is 375,000 dollar plus already, 10k just doesn't seem that much. I doubt it will be noticed in this particular state.

Yeah, maybe in large cities (SF, LA, etc.. and the suburbs near it)... But California is still a huge state. There are rural areas where it doesn't cost $500k+ for a new home.
 

Vader1975

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Yeah, maybe in large cities (SF, LA, etc.. and the suburbs near it)... But California is still a huge state. There are rural areas where it doesn't cost $500k+ for a new home.
You would think. Pull up the cheapest standard of living city in CA. Oxnard. Pull up house prices. 485k 500k Pull up this little hut: 3619_Orange_Drive-Oxnard-CA Its a 1968 HUT for crying out loud. It looks like crap...1200 sq feet. 525k. This state's housing is bad. Really bad. Even in rural communities comparatively.
 

Evil Scooter

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Reusable energy … maybe CA needs to find the way to convert forest fire into energy instead. They have plenty of that all year around.

We used to.. it was called logging and managing our forests. The same short sighted eco-retards pushing this solar crap put a stop to that.. now we get bigger hotter burning wildfires because there is so much more fuel. But they can feel good about themselves and in the end that's all they really care about anyway. Our state legislator is trying their hardest to turn this place into Detroit...
 

Evil Scooter

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then you should have no problem living right next to them as they devalue your property and cause you irreparable harm financially physically and mentally.

They don't want to live with them.... they want everyone else to be forced to live next to the noisy bird choppers and be reliant on them for power. Check how well the EU's eco stupidity is working out. People freezing to death in winter... but hey... they can feel good about themselves.
 

Red Falcon

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Plus the general fuckery in that state telling you what you can and cannot do.
You mean Socialism.
Guess who else belonged to the Socialist party: Nazis

So California is being run by a bunch of Nazis, yet so many people don't call this all out for what it is and dance around the issue talking about "cost" and "is it really needed", rather than seeing the gradual enslavement of the population for what it really is.
"You have to do this and are forced to do that" - California is starting to sound more and more like the Soviet Union.

Guess most people just can't see the forest through the trees.
Or they do want Socialism (and Communism) for their "free" stuff from the government.

Only, it isn't "free", someone has to pay for all of that.
Oh right, that someone is you, slaves of the State.

Leftists can't enslave themselves fast enough, and California and New York are the proof of that. :meh:
 
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gamerk2

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Or the soaring cost of living eats that up...

Only near the large cities that also drives the states growth. That's how capitalism works: People make more money, prices go up in order to maximize profits. That's EXACTLY why critical services should be provided at cost by Federal/State governments, since economic growth rapidly causes costs in the market to go out of control as some segment of the population can afford to pay more.
 

Dayaks

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Only near the large cities that also drives the states growth. That's how capitalism works: People make more money, prices go up in order to maximize profits. That's EXACTLY why critical services should be provided at cost by Federal/State governments, since economic growth rapidly causes costs in the market to go out of control as some segment of the population can afford to pay more.

What’s that have to do with shoving a feel good “green” idea down the throats of every home builder? Adding hazards for emergency services, drive up electrical costs, force electrical suppliers to use inefficient/pollution generating power plants (the kind that can ramp quickly to offset solar fluctuations), ect? Nevermind the high toxic and combustable batteries some may use with these systems. I bet a decent portion of peope would not bother to maintain or dispose of those systems properly. The batteries or the panels. Can’t wait to hear about California’s water being tainted by carcinogens in 30 years.

You also completely ignored my retort on you saying California leads in education but they actually have one of the highest drop out rates.
 

nutzo

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Laowai

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You mean Socialism.
Guess who else belonged to the Socialist party: Nazis

So California is being run by a bunch of Nazis, yet so many people don't call this all out for what it is and dance around the issue talking about "cost" and "is it really needed", rather than seeing the gradual enslavement of the population for what it really is.
"You have to do this and are forced to do that" - California is starting to sound more and more like the Soviet Union.

Guess most people just can't see the forest through the trees.
Or they do want Socialism (and Communism) for their "free" stuff from the government.

Only, it isn't "free", someone has to pay for all of that.
Oh right, that someone is you, slaves of the State.

Leftists can't enslave themselves fast enough, and California and New York are the proof of that. :meh:
You know how retarded leftists sound when they see nazis everywhere?
People on the right don't sound any smarter when they do it.
 
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