Calibration Horrors: Win10-->nVidia-->TN based Dell S2417DG

[tgm1024]

Win10prox64/GTX 1080ti/yadda3...

Brief:

Got 3 calibration variables in the way for color correction. How to keep Win10 out of the loop as much as possible, and how to proceed with calibrating this thing when all panels are different?


TL;DR;

Ok, I'm yet another person struggling with the color of a TN panel monitor (Dell S2417DG). The monitor is nearly in all ways spectacular, and one of the few 24" 1440p monitors out there.

However, the color desaturation in this monitor is a deal breaker, and I'm trying really hard to calibrate this thing to raise the colors out of "washed out". This particular TN monitor is known for having this problem, apparently worse than some other TN's, so I have to be careful.

A HUGE WRINKLE in all of this however is that I cannot figure out how Windows 10 handles its own calibration scheme. As near as I can figure out, it does this entirely before the nVidia drivers get ahold of the source information. It doesn't seem to directly teeth into the nVidia drivers themselves by "asking" it to adjust the settings for it.

So: If I use the windows 10 calibration [anti-]wizard and modify the Gamma control, I now have the following:

Win10 Gamma ---fed to---> nVidia Gamma ---fed to---> My monitor's Gamma

UGH! Is this right? This is akin to having a tape-deck ramp up its own volume and feeding it to an amp which feeds to a speaker that has its own volume control. Let's forget about games that try to assert their own calibration hooey for the time being.

Suggestions? Punt and go with 4ms IPS? It seems a shame: There just are no other 24" 1440 144+Hz monitors out there and I'll have to go with 27", and lower dotpitch.

 

[HiCZoK]

s2417dg... I would shoot myself in the head rather than try to calibrate Dell tn gamma

 

[tgm1024]

s2417dg... I would shoot myself in the head rather than try to calibrate Dell tn gamma

Well, that's currently not on the agenda, but a good punch to the middle of the thing crosses my mind from time to time....

Sounds like you're in the "return it before you lose your mind" camp, or am I misreading you?

 

[Armenius]

Did you generate an ICC profile after calibration, and are you loading that in Windows as the default? If I remember correctly, there are a couple extra options you need to enable when loading a custom ICC profile, but I do not remember specifics. You also want to enable the "Use default color settings" under "Change resolution" in the NVIDIA control panel.

The 24" version of the Dell monitor is using a 6-bit panel, so I would not expect miracles. The 27" version uses a superior 8-bit panel, but it has its own issues (pixel inversion, specifically).

 

[tgm1024]

You also want to enable the "Use default color settings" under "Change resolution" in the NVIDIA control panel.

Well the point would be to get Win10 out of the way, not nVidia. nVidia at least cooperates with games and can override them if requested from the nVidia panel if need be. Win10 seems to be at the very front of the data chain on this one, regardless of what nVidia has to say about it later.

The 24" version of the Dell monitor is using a 6-bit panel, so I would not expect miracles. The 27" version uses a superior 8-bit panel, but it has its own issues (pixel inversion, specifically).

Yeah, I noticed quite a bit of contouring (color banding)...6-bitisms without dither; My mistake too: I would have sworn that the S2417DG was an 8-bit from AUO. This was a gaming monitor for my sons on the PC I built for gaming (for them), so I wasn't paying a ton of attention. Mea Culpa on 6-bit if true.

 

[Armenius]

Well the point would be to get Win10 out of the way, not nVidia. nVidia at least cooperates with games and can override them if requested from the nVidia panel if need be. Win10 seems to be at the very front of the data chain on this one, regardless of what nVidia has to say about it later.




Yeah, I noticed quite a bit of contouring (color banding)...6-bitisms without dither; My mistake too: I would have sworn that the S2417DG was an 8-bit from AUO. This was a gaming monitor for my sons on the PC I built for gaming (for them), so I wasn't paying a ton of attention. Mea Culpa on 6-bit if true.

Unfortunately with the way WDDM works it's impossible to get Windows out of the way.

 

[tgm1024]

Unfortunately with the way WDDM works it's impossible to get Windows out of the way.

Argh. I was afraid of that.

Any idea on what the most neutral setting might be? Full blast with everything, and Gamma at 1.0, or similar?

 

[Armenius]

Argh. I was afraid of that.

Any idea on what the most neutral setting might be? Full blast with everything, and Gamma at 1.0, or similar?

Reading further it seems that this monitor oversaturates the red and green channels, so you may want to try turning those down on the monitor if you haven't already. It also seems that the gamma setting on the monitor is inaccurate, so you want to try the 2.1 setting instead of 2.2. You should only do this after you set your software gamma profiles back to default. After making adjustments to the monitor you can try calibrating the gamma again.

If gaming is your primary use, though, know that most games ignore your software color management settings anyway. Getting the monitor settings correct is more important. Then you can use the brightness calibration screens in your games to adjust for each one.

 

[KG-Prime90]

I just use the individual gamma channels in NVCP after trying to make some gamma profiles for it. It's something i would avoid, but that was like 20 years ago and i never had used it before actually. But with this thing it's just easiest if you are doing it by eye, which i was, and it sticks in most games i play on it.

I set the RGB gamma channels independently after i get my white point in the monitor OSD, and used like Lagom gamma images and some of my own collection of color swatches/gradients. It ends up being around .86/.87 gamma in NVCP to get about 2.1 - 2.2 gamma in the middle of the screen. Colors are not as close as a calibrator obviously, but they are close enough out of the box generally anyway for daily tasks and gaming. I just try to make RGB gamma balanced.

The other sauce of dealing with TN is the angle at which you view them, i mean vertically. You want eye height to be looking at them mid screen or slightly lower, not at the top, i have it even slightly tilted back and an angle (pointing toward ceiling) like 1 degree ( depending on where your eye height lands on normal sitting position )
Then i just use my seating posture to get a little more depth/saturation or brighten things up. In games i'll lean back and it's more like 2.2 2.3. You know it's around 2.2 when the top area of the screen gets slightly darkened, like any other standard 2.2 Tn panel in the past.
Banding. There is some in the darkest greys before black. So, in some youtube video where it's black background and there is a light source halo, or stage lights, or highly compressed images, sometimes in games fog, but not too much.