BWM Loves the Death of Net Neutrality

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Maybe the headline is a bit of a reach, but surely the argument is being framed this way. CNET's RoadShow is reporting (AutoStart Video Warning) that BMW is putting a payway in front of Apples free CarPlay service in upcoming 2019 models. Surely however there is a cost to the car builder for one-time licensing and putting in the hardware needed to support, and while most car builders roll that into the overall price, many high end brands have optional feature costs that support this, and I think many have always seen this as a fair deal as it is an upgraded package. However, what RoadShow is reporting is that BMW is moving to a annual fee in order for your to be able to use Apple CarPlay.

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Instead of a one-time, $300 fee, starting on 2019 models BMW will charge $80 annually for the privilege of accessing Apple's otherwise totally free CarPlay service. You do get the first year free, much like your friendly neighborhood dealer of another sort, but after that it's pay up or have your Lightning cable metaphorically snipped.

This all begs the question, "If BMW drivers don't realize their cars have blinkers, are they aware that Apple Carplay is even available?"
 
Practically everything involved in owning a BMW is already effectively a subscription service, so hey, why not?!
 
Current car infotainment that I’ve tried have sucked.

Android/Apple infotainment is the future, rather than the half baked shittily implemented car manufacturers infotainment.
 
I almost think I will never buy a new car, with these vendor-specific systems. And giant damn LCD screens I don't want or need for ANY purpose. My 2012 BMW doesn't have AIrPlay, or any of that stuff, it just has a USB jack that sees any brand device (and can work with plain memory sticks), There's no LCD screen, the radio is 2 knobs and 6 buttons, the climate control is two knobs and a pair of displays for the temperature. I don't need full access to my phone - I need to be able to listen to my music and have hands free phone calls. ANd if I really need it, the nav app talks over the BT as well.
Only people who think they have to take their car to the dealer overpay for maintenance. That goes for any brand, not just BMW.
 
So now I have even less reason to want to overpay for a BMW to take me to the same places as my Hyundai.
 
kirbyrj said:
Except that most manufacturer's design their dashboards so as to make it virtually impossible to have an aftermarket radio.
Click to expand...
Exactly. They won't fit and if they do fit then you lose a lot of essential functionality. Plus the screen is pushed far into the dash, making a touchscreen impractical. So you have to use these shitty controls in the center console which 99.99% of aftermarket stereos are incapable of using.

When it comes to putting in an aftermarket stereo, your cheap Chevys or Toyota's are better because that extra crap costs money and these cars are built cheaper than luxury cars like BMW and Lexus. Which means you can take a Toyota Camry 2017 and put in a Android stereo that can do Apple Play.

A 2017 Toyota Camry which you can definitely do an aftermarket radio. Though you would need something custom like this. Still not cheap 2din but better than using the stock radio. No Apple play on this one but it runs Android 6.0 which means you could install Angry birds and play it if it pleased you.

ximm


A 2017 Lexus. Good luck figuring out where to put a 2din stereo. At least without losing climate controls.

2017LES140001_640_18.jpg
 
Megaslug said:
I almost think I will never buy a new car, with these vendor-specific systems. And giant damn LCD screens I don't want or need for ANY purpose. My 2012 BMW doesn't have AIrPlay, or any of that stuff, it just has a USB jack that sees any brand device (and can work with plain memory sticks), There's no LCD screen, the radio is 2 knobs and 6 buttons, the climate control is two knobs and a pair of displays for the temperature. I don't need full access to my phone - I need to be able to listen to my music and have hands free phone calls. ANd if I really need it, the nav app talks over the BT as well.
Only people who think they have to take their car to the dealer overpay for maintenance. That goes for any brand, not just BMW.
Click to expand...

But those giant LCD screens are to distract you, so you wreck, and need A NEW BMW ! Please don't dis an entire industriy's marketing plan.
 
My buddy just got the brand new 5 series, it's pretty fucking amazing tech wise. The user interface is REALLY nice. All that said, I wouldn't pay $80/yr for apple or android integration. I have a 2017 A4 with android auto integration and it's not all that great. In fact it's pretty annoying because you click it into your car to pull up google maps but then you're locked out of your phone. So my wife wants to reply to a text it doesn't matter, you're locked out. I get the idea of locking someone out of the phone so the driver doesn't use it but (A) the car is smart enough to know I have a passenger so be smart enough to unlock the phone (B) I can always just unplug the thing and use it as the driver anyways.
 
I've owned several BMW's over the years, they have all for the most part been amazing cars, from a Z4 to an X6. I've moved away from the brand for assorted reason, one of them being this tawdry price gouging over something that should be part of the basic car entertainment package. That, and the ever larger price tags and the improvement in quality of other car brands.

I suppose in hindsight my favorite BMW was my 2006 Z4, no Nav, no fancy infotainment system, just a quick little sports car that was amazing fun on a curvy road.
 
How is this any different than paying for sat radio? This has nothing to do with NN.
 
DukenukemX said:
Exactly. They won't fit and if they do fit then you lose a lot of essential functionality. Plus the screen is pushed far into the dash, making a touchscreen impractical. So you have to use these shitty controls in the center console which 99.99% of aftermarket stereos are incapable of using.

When it comes to putting in an aftermarket stereo, your cheap Chevys or Toyota's are better because that extra crap costs money and these cars are built cheaper than luxury cars like BMW and Lexus. Which means you can take a Toyota Camry 2017 and put in a Android stereo that can do Apple Play.

A 2017 Toyota Camry which you can definitely do an aftermarket radio. Though you would need something custom like this. Still not cheap 2din but better than using the stock radio. No Apple play on this one but it runs Android 6.0 which means you could install Angry birds and play it if it pleased you.

ximm


A 2017 Lexus. Good luck figuring out where to put a 2din stereo. At least without losing climate controls.
Click to expand...

that first one is literally a double din screen.

what car is that?

it's a 17 camry

this looks like the dash kit for it.

bktoyk978-.jpg
 
This is just market at play. Fanboys will still buy the vehicle. Reasonable/practical people will find an alternative that is cheaper but effective.
 
BMW isn't the only ones doing this. My 2012 Prius uses the Toyota specific Entune (I was going to look to the Toyota site, but it has location tracking and I didn't want to mess with anyone). It's crap software that I haven't used since the free trial was over.
 
DukenukemX said:
Exactly. They won't fit and if they do fit then you lose a lot of essential functionality. Plus the screen is pushed far into the dash, making a touchscreen impractical. So you have to use these shitty controls in the center console which 99.99% of aftermarket stereos are incapable of using.

When it comes to putting in an aftermarket stereo, your cheap Chevys or Toyota's are better because that extra crap costs money and these cars are built cheaper than luxury cars like BMW and Lexus. Which means you can take a Toyota Camry 2017 and put in a Android stereo that can do Apple Play.

A 2017 Toyota Camry which you can definitely do an aftermarket radio. Though you would need something custom like this. Still not cheap 2din but better than using the stock radio. No Apple play on this one but it runs Android 6.0 which means you could install Angry birds and play it if it pleased you.

ximm


A 2017 Lexus. Good luck figuring out where to put a 2din stereo. At least without losing climate controls.

2017LES140001_640_18.jpg
Click to expand...

I chopped up our Tribeca, got medieval on it.

https://imgur.com/a/nNGMG
 
Master_shake_ said:
that first one is literally a double din screen.

what car is that?

it's a 17 camry

this looks like the dash kit for it.
Click to expand...

The other poster specifically mentioned that you could do aftermarket on the Camry.

Personally I don't think this an awful idea. I bought a used 2012 550i which had pretty tight iOS integration when it originally came out. Now the iDrive is several versions old and most features barely work. It's still better audio quality and slightly better controls if I connect my iPhone 7 (which I have to have for work) via lightning vs my personal GS7 via Bluetooth. The iPhone integration will do album art for music or audible, and full playlist control when using Apple music stored on my device. But controls for Google music or audible barely work and usually I just manipulate on the iPhone rather than use idrive.

If BMW were to use the fee to promise to update features to maintain compatibility with newer iOS versions it could be worth the money.

Also... I use my blinkers all the time. But that it's maybe because I upgraded from a life full of shitty cars to this one. Haven't fully embraced the BMW lifestyle?
 
"I like your free product and think I'll charge for it, thank you."

I'd be very surprised if Apple doesn't have some clause.

I'm guessing BMW's argument will be that their system is "closed unless you pay the yearly fee to install apps."
 
Aioeyu said:
BMW isn't the only ones doing this. My 2012 Prius uses the Toyota specific Entune (I was going to look to the Toyota site, but it has location tracking and I didn't want to mess with anyone). It's crap software that I haven't used since the free trial was over.
Click to expand...
'
The basic Toyota Entune is free. There were so many complaints about charging after the first 2 years that they dropped the subscription and just main it free.
The newer Entune 3.0 have a plus and premium versions that do have subscription options.

Even so, I don't really use it on my 2013 Camry. All I need is the hands free Bluetooth phone connection and the USB port for all my MP3's.
 
Dillirium said:
This is just market at play. Fanboys will still buy the vehicle. Reasonable/practical people will find an alternative that is cheaper but effective.
Click to expand...

Or the more likely scenario is all the Luxury brands jump on the bandwagon and do the same thing.

If you are wanting a Luxury car, you're not going to buy a Toyota or Ford. Reasonable/practical doesn't really enter in to it when your looking at cars over $60K as long as they do what you want, if that is high end performance, luxury or just brand prestige.
 
Master_shake_ said:
that first one is literally a double din screen.

what car is that?

it's a 17 camry

this looks like the dash kit for it.

bktoyk978-.jpg
Click to expand...
Either way you can put a stereo in a Camry fairly easily. That Lexus...

thesmokingman said:
I chopped up our Tribeca, got medieval on it.

https://imgur.com/a/nNGMG
Click to expand...

I did something similar to my C5 as those cars can't easily install a 2din stereo. So I had to cut some metal frame off and did a bunch of fiberglass to get the interior to match, but I ended up painting the interior red cause for lols. I even made a crappy video on how to install an aftermarket stereo in a 07 IS250 cause it's not done often.

Either way the industry is trying to stop people from doing this. BTW that looks really good. Almost factory.

 
PaulP said:
How is this any different than paying for sat radio? This has nothing to do with NN.
Click to expand...

Because with sat radio you pay for a service - you get a service. Paying a subscription service to allow what is basically a screen mirror is a rip off. It would be different if I was paying 300 dollars a year for unlimited calling/text and 10 GB of data a month on an in car LTE infotainment system based off apple or android - but you are not. Why car companies don't get smart and just stick a dam big smart phone in there running ios or android is beyond me.
 
motomonkey said:
I've owned several BMW's over the years, they have all for the most part been amazing cars, from a Z4 to an X6. I've moved away from the brand for assorted reason, one of them being this tawdry price gouging over something that should be part of the basic car entertainment package. That, and the ever larger price tags and the improvement in quality of other car brands.

I suppose in hindsight my favorite BMW was my 2006 Z4, no Nav, no fancy infotainment system, just a quick little sports car that was amazing fun on a curvy road.
Click to expand...

How did you like your X6? I'm looking at a decent used X6 or an X5D and I'm coming from a 335D which I love to pieces.
 
zkostik said:
Gee, pretty impressive job there bud. You really wanted it I see!
Click to expand...

DukenukemX said:
I did something similar to my C5 as those cars can't easily install a 2din stereo. So I had to cut some metal frame off and did a bunch of fiberglass to get the interior to match, but I ended up painting the interior red cause for lols. I even made a crappy video on how to install an aftermarket stereo in a 07 IS250 cause it's not done often.

Either way the industry is trying to stop people from doing this. BTW that looks really good. Almost factory.

Click to expand...


Thanks. They said it couldn't be done at the time I did it. The factory option was over 5K for the crap disc based OEM option. The Pio unit, rear display, paint matching, and stuff cost me around 1.5K so I came out ahead. And yea I agree, they are making it very hard for folks to install aftermarket systems. Our Tribeca's system was integrated with the HVAC controls drawing power thru the stock head unit's amp, etc. It was a pain in the ass figuring out which boards I could toss, etc. I eventually got it sorted as the pics kind of show so all is good.
 
Methadras said:
How did you like your X6? I'm looking at a decent used X6 or an X5D and I'm coming from a 335D which I love to pieces.
Click to expand...

The X6 was a beast. it was my wife's, and she loved it. it doesn't have as much room as an X5 for storage due to the way the rear sloped down, but still a decent amount. For a vehicle of it's size it handled amazingly well, output was over 400HP on the engine with good torque since it's a V8. very comfortable.

The downside. do not buy one unless it is under warranty, unless you know a good independent mechanic. Maintenance costs are formidable from the dealership out of warranty.

Overall I really liked it.
 
TBH I agree, Mercedes Benz does the same thing. As far as I know, if you get the navigation upgrade the hardware and software are already there. They just make you pay to have an activation code put in to make it work which is bullshit. If they had a yearly fee for carplay when I was shopping I would have just went elsewhere. The navigation package on these cars isn't cheap, it was almost $3k in our new car. If they had additional features however like Audi Connect I would maybe take a look.
 
DukenukemX said:
Exactly. They won't fit and if they do fit then you lose a lot of essential functionality. Plus the screen is pushed far into the dash, making a touchscreen impractical. So you have to use these shitty controls in the center console which 99.99% of aftermarket stereos are incapable of using.

When it comes to putting in an aftermarket stereo, your cheap Chevys or Toyota's are better because that extra crap costs money and these cars are built cheaper than luxury cars like BMW and Lexus. Which means you can take a Toyota Camry 2017 and put in a Android stereo that can do Apple Play.

A 2017 Toyota Camry which you can definitely do an aftermarket radio. Though you would need something custom like this. Still not cheap 2din but better than using the stock radio. No Apple play on this one but it runs Android 6.0 which means you could install Angry birds and play it if it pleased you.

ximm


A 2017 Lexus. Good luck figuring out where to put a 2din stereo. At least without losing climate controls.

2017LES140001_640_18.jpg
Click to expand...
They might have to come up with a touch fascia that remotely controls the head unit.
They just need to come up with a cling screen overlay with a trigger that makes it "transparent" when wanting to use the stock screen, but "opaque" when wanting to control the stereo, if that makes sense.
 
Having tried that twice, I don't really recommend it, the support on those Android head units is nonexistant and sometimes are partially locked down so if you don't like cracking it open and flashing via jtag with firmware from a device that looks "close enough", you might not be able to update it. Now I tend to keep my cars forever but for BMW owners, they usually lease so they might not care for the first couple years knowing they'll trade up in a couple. I remember when BMW spent tons on a slick iphone integration that relied on screen mirroring via the video out feature on the old connector then just 1-2 years later into the refresh, Apple switched to lightning with no advance notification. I guess they aren't feeling as generous this time.
DukenukemX said:
Exactly. They won't fit and if they do fit then you lose a lot of essential functionality. Plus the screen is pushed far into the dash, making a touchscreen impractical. So you have to use these shitty controls in the center console which 99.99% of aftermarket stereos are incapable of using.

When it comes to putting in an aftermarket stereo, your cheap Chevys or Toyota's are better because that extra crap costs money and these cars are built cheaper than luxury cars like BMW and Lexus. Which means you can take a Toyota Camry 2017 and put in a Android stereo that can do Apple Play.

A 2017 Toyota Camry which you can definitely do an aftermarket radio. Though you would need something custom like this. Still not cheap 2din but better than using the stock radio. No Apple play on this one but it runs Android 6.0 which means you could install Angry birds and play it if it pleased you.

ximm


A 2017 Lexus. Good luck figuring out where to put a 2din stereo. At least without losing climate controls.

2017LES140001_640_18.jpg
Click to expand...
 
jfreund said:
Shit like this will revitalize the aftermarket stereo industry.
Click to expand...

My 1st thought was this is why I never buy the upgraded equiptment and install way better for less. Note I own 2 BMW built vehicles. 1 Mini and 1 X3. Neither has all original Stereo parts. :) Another reason for my fellow BMW owners to say... screw you I'll buy my own damn Stereo.
 
///AMG said:
TBH I agree, Mercedes Benz does the same thing. As far as I know, if you get the navigation upgrade the hardware and software are already there. They just make you pay to have an activation code put in to make it work which is bullshit. If they had a yearly fee for carplay when I was shopping I would have just went elsewhere. The navigation package on these cars isn't cheap, it was almost $3k in our new car. If they had additional features however like Audi Connect I would maybe take a look.
Click to expand...

yeah I never understood car makers charging 3000 for something garmin sells for 99 bucks and better.
 
The Germans have always optioned absolutely everything.

A base car from anywhere else comes with a lot of nice features. When you buy a base Merc, Audi or BMW you get absolutely nothing. Everything is a goddamned option that adds to the price.
 
groebuck said:
yeah I never understood car makers charging 3000 for something garmin sells for 99 bucks and better.
Click to expand...

Its because they can, and options for luxury car makers are huge profit generators. We weren't going to spend that much money on a SUV and then not spend $3k to get the nav and whatever else comes in that package. I didnt want to have any regrets over not getting options since I plan on keeping it for a long long time. I am sure they understand this too.
 
///AMG said:
Its because they can, and options for luxury car makers are huge profit generators. We weren't going to spend that much money on a SUV and then not spend $3k to get the nav and whatever else comes in that package. I didnt want to have any regrets over not getting options since I plan on keeping it for a long long time. I am sure they understand this too.
Click to expand...


Yet the integrated navs are usually terrible, clunky and quickly outdated, and - surprisingly - actually lower a cars resale value.

In the cars I've driven that have had them, I've usually just used my phone for nav instead instead as it does so much better of a job.

I have yet to drive a car with Android auto though. If it successfully integrates my phone's nav, I'd love that.

I don't want any Apple crap in any car I'd buy.
 
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