Buy used 1080 or Vega 64?

Discussion in 'Video Cards' started by Teenk9, Dec 20, 2019.

Buy a

Poll closed Dec 22, 2019.
  1. GTX 1080

    22 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. Vega 64

    16 vote(s)
    42.1%
  1. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    If they learn from their mistakes, then there wouldn't be an issue but the same old friggin issues and bugs from yesteryear rear their ugly heads time after time.
     
  2. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    What issues keep coming back up?

    Nvidia and 10 bit panels had issues for years, actually for a long while GeForce drivers did not even support, now they are sorta half ass.

    Nvidia SLI and HDR had issues almost all the way through Pascal production of cards, sorta worked when I last tried, do not know about now.

    Nvidia support for industry standard Adaptive Sync displays? Took a long time for that to happen.

    Washed out colors? Nvidia is king of that. Blurry scaling, Nvidia is king of that - Most are somewhat fixable in the drivers if you know what you are doing.

    From my experience both have issues, sometimes major issues. As for Nvidia being better overall over AMD I do not buy. As for having zero issues lol, I hope that is a joke.

    If Nvidia drivers are so blemish free would mean no updates would ever be needed except for new games, API updates, OS updates -> Of course that is not remotely true, Nvidia drivers have broken cards before because of turning off fans. AMD as well had some pretty bad drivers.

    Welcome to Geforce drivers paradise, bug free, utopia:
    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  3. Auer

    Auer [H]ard|Gawd

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    Have they fixed Wattman fan control curves yet?
     
  4. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    I did not have that problem but that is using reference cards (VEGA FE's, 64LC and 5700XT). Non reference cards can have this problem, is it AMD or manufacturer or both? My take is AMD needs an easy API that the AIB can use to make sure Wattman, now Tuning, will work for their bios. So AMD pushing clear cut standards and providing sufficient tools to meet that seems to be the real answer. AIBs need to work with AMD on ensuring their cards work well with the driver features and visa versa. Nvidia does not have to worry about this because they have zero software for this and rely on 3rd parties to update and give these types of functions which I have had issues with as well on Nvidia cards.

    You can go to AMD community driver section and type in Fan Control, Here is one:

    https://community.amd.com/message/2943940?commentID=2943940#comment-2943940?q=fan control

    I do not see many current issues on this.

    Edit: I use fan curves on all my video cards except for one Vega FE using Linux Mint
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  5. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    1. Green screen in YT
    2. Radeon VII multimonitor flicker - back after 19.5
    3. Joke Fan curve issue
    4. Run HW monitor utility, get greeted with BSOD
    5. Memory clocks go to the moon and increase heat and power consumption. Fixed then broken again many times on RX 5700XT and Radeon VII
    6. Freesync broken on several releases this year
    7. Certain options just vanish in Radeon Settings (IE CHILL)
    8. Wattman somewhat worked in 2017
    9. Wattman is broken and people bitching about it in 2018
    10. Wattman is still broken 2019
    11. Adrenaline 2020 - Oh, you know it... wattman still broken!!!
    12. Adrenaline 2020 - BSODs and restarts on MW and one other game I forget which one that I know of.
    13. Adrenaline 2020 - Ahhh, still broken fan curve
    14. Adrenaline 2020 - Black screens that forces restart
    15. Adrenaline 2020 - Flickering black screens that recover.
    16. Make sure you disable hardware acceleration in all your browsers.... or BSOD - Happening since forever

    I own ALL AMD CARDS right now. No excuses for this piss poor software so people need to quit defending this giant turd they call good drivers... My ass....
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
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  6. Mega6

    Mega6 2[H]4U

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    Three options

    1) uninstall, driver cleaner, reinstall
    2) try Nv
    3) console
     
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  7. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    All in the same computer? I have had none of those issues so what you call defending I call it simply working.
     
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  8. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    Noooo, not all the same computer. Intel and AMD builds. I have had several and have friends that have these issues also. Swapped them all on Nvidia just so I don't have to hear about the issues anymore. I just deal with it, because I know how to bandaid it all.

    1. Don't use Wattman
    2. Use Ultramon for Monitor profiles to eliminate flicker and spiking memory clocks
    3. Use afterburner for fan curve
    4. Run my HWINFO utility before any thing else is opened (Video etc)
    5. Disable HW acceleration and use firefox only
    6. Be very careful of driver updates.


    Your typical end user does not know how to do this. I don't run single monitor either.
     
  9. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have multiple monitors on 5700XT and previously on Vega FE's/LC which do not flicker, have one at 144hz other at 60hz, one 10bit other 8bit, different resolutions, one HDR and the other not and it works great. Try that with Nvidia :ROFLMAO: When I had the 1080Ti's on a similar setup it would fiip screens, switch location of Icons - a real PIA.

    Never had a green YT screen??? WTF

    Wattman issue I only had was with Beta mining drivers and that was horrendous at the time other then that it works great and use it all the time.

    Adrenaline 2020 black screen was cured by using Standard vice Game profile - 19.12.3 fixed the issue all together and using Game profile red Dead Redemption 2, OCing with Tuning.

    Fan curves work on all my AMD cards - what can I say??? Want me to load videos after video. I have Reference cards so that maybe why I don't have those issues.

    Hardware acceleration works in all my browsers, Edge had an issue but that was cleared up in 19.11.x drivers or earlier.

    Don't know about Mech Warrior but I had games in the past that did not work well but later did - Wolfenstein Youngblood, Shadow Of The Tomb Raider and so on.

    Now you said Radeon VII - have you tried the Pro drivers? It will just have fan curves and nothing else. If that doesn't work then you can do what us Nvidia users have to do, download a utility and adjust it that way, have you tried that? If that doesn't work then most likely your card is faulty.

    Have you used the driver built in Problem Report? Also driver has link Online to Report issues? Give AMD a chance other words. Other than that, go green, maybe it will be greener on the other side.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  10. mvmiller12

    mvmiller12 Gawd

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    What seems really clear here to me is that a lot of people have anecdotally different experiences on the same cards. Neither card manufacturer makes "perfect" drivers and we should just accept that the same card will work fantastically for some of us and terribly for others due to differences in our rigs hardware and software configurations - that's just life.

    Me, personally? I don't buy nVidia or Intel. Their hardware is fine, but I don't like their business practices. AMD's practices aren't perfect (and I have no doubt that AMD would love to be playing these same games), but they are far less egregious in my view than either nVidia or Intel. If their behavior worsens to the point where my view flips on that, than so shall my purchasing decisions. I've gone from Radeon 6950 to R9 290 to RX 480 to Vega 64. As far as AMD video drivers are concerned, in the last 10 years or so I've had exactly 3 issues:

    1) Enhanced Sync would cause crashes (or weirdness like stuck screens) on several games when enabled - this has been fixed (and broken and fixed) a few times since the feature was introduced. It works * most * of the time, and if weird shit starts happening after a driver update, this is the first thing I turn off.

    2) Nier: Automata - I needed old drivers for the first 2 weeks I played the game or it would bork. AMD fixed this and as far as I know, it has been fixed ever since. In all fairness nVidia also had issues with this game and several of their cards - and older drivers were not even a workaround for GeForce 700 series card users :(. They also eventually fixed this.

    3) Smite - WAY back in the day, there was some texture corruption around lighting effects, more recently and on 2 different occasions "translucent" effects have completely vanished in DirectX 11 mode. These issues were fixed in subsequent driver updates after having been reported to AMD using their bug submission tool, but each fix took a month. In the meanwhile, the texture corruption - while annoying - did not hinder gameplay at all and only effected a few specific characters and the missing effects could be worked around by running the game in DirectX 9 mode.

    Also anecdotally, I have noticed that bugs tend to appear around the introduction of new cards. In reviews, one frequently reads how launch day drivers for the new cards are also terrible. Radeon VII launch was particularly rough (which surprises me, because isn't Radeon VII essentially a die shrunk clocked up Vega 64 with double the RAM?). Personally, I've never bought a launch day card, though - all of my card upgrades have been 6 months or more after the card's release so I am sure that this at least in part accounts for my lack of issues with these cards.
     
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  11. Rockenrooster

    Rockenrooster Limp Gawd

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    Dang thats quite a list. I have 2 AMD cards and the only issue I've ever experienced was not being able to use Relive recording, but I fixed it by disabling the Xbox game bar or whatever and rebooting.
    Granted I have a 290x and a RX580 so not exactly new stuff...
    2020 Drivers have been great for me.
    I have 2 laptops with Nvidia GPUs (850m and 980m) and I always hate it when I have to change something in the drivers (use dGPU instead of Intel garbage), the drop down menu and the apply button freeze the window for like 10 sec everytime on both laptops and the interface looks like its from the early 2000s, Functional yes, but somehow also slow. Changing settings in the AMD drivers are so much faster. Are things different with reguar full size Nvidia GPUs?
     
  12. NightReaver

    NightReaver [H]Lite

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    Eh, I had a couple issues with my 5700xt once I installed the 2020 drivers. Changing any of settings would make my main monitor go solid blue, fixable by changing the res back and forth. The other, and much more annoying issue was black screen when waking the PC up, requiring a hard reset.

    Sure enough, running DDU and installing 2019 drivers fixed this, but I get tired of having to DDU, install new driver, check if it's fixed, if not then DDU again and go back to old drivers.

    Picked up a 1080ti in the meantime and it works great. Gonna try the 5700xt in my wifes' PC, maybe it'll behave better.
     
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  13. cyklondx

    cyklondx Limp Gawd

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    People seems to be quite divided.
    5700 is better deal if you can get a decent non-ref version for similar price.


    1080, and Vega64 is a bad deal unless you can get it dirty cheap used from ebay - and you don't mind their issues.
    (Yes. both had, and have issues still.)
    // Notes: I am radeon vii owner, and owner of 980ti hydro, fury-x, multiple 290x's, 780ti, multiple 7970's, and few 6990, and 5970's - and many older cards - close friend from work with 1080ti hydro, also another close friend of 2080ti, Vega64, and 2x VegaFe Liquid - we are tech savy - we work in same datacenter - we do not mine with our cards, and often just crunch boinc, play games together etc.


    All cards have their own issues.
    I'll outline some big issues, and biggest positive things about the cards:

    Current 1080 series

    Pro's
    - You will likely get most FPS in their generation - if you are running a single display with full screen mode.
    - Gameworks titles will work correctly, and you won't suffer too much because of them.
    - Decent uplift in vulkan, and dx12 vs 980 series
    - Latency is great vs other cards like Vega or 980ti, this makes it one of the best in generation for VR
    - Temperature in stock configuration
    - Tessellation performance
    - HDR supported in windowed mode
    - Decent warranty timeframes

    Cons
    Driver issues:
    - Issues with multi-monitor setups (if you play a video game on one of the screens god bless your content on the other monitors is going to run at 15fps or less)
    - DP, HDMI bugs (Plenty bios patches received, and most of cards still have issues - audio bug with hdmi.)
    - Recording/Streaming videos with multiple monitors, and watching your stream on other monitor (referring to bios, and driver bug.)
    - Fan ramp up, and being stuck for some reason when driver crashes by switching between full-screen game and other monitors.
    - Often has lesser fps count in borderless/window mode in dx9, dx11, vulkan, dx12 games.
    - Drivers spy on you, and force you to log in to game experience (they also can hinder your game performance, and eat some memory), it is also capable of changing your graphical settings etc... - there are tools to remove it though.
    - Problem with kvm pass-through
    - Often driver sets to run limited RGB, even with HDR impacting actual color range - making it look less nice. Driver bug, as even when you set it to run at full-rgb it falls back to limited rgb sometimes in certain games/applications, and hdr content or after playing hdr.
    - Driver/Bios bug sometimes you get bad hit in fps in your games - and need to restart the game to get your fps back
    - Drivers often breaking... forcing you to DDU and install older drivers, win10 updates them anyway often ignoring your settings not to update them.


    Current vega series:

    Pro's
    - No issues with multi monitor setups (more than 2)
    - You can flash, you can oc, and go beyond on watercooled cards or ones with good cooling installed.
    - Pro drivers can be installed, and get stability first
    - No issues with KVM pass-through.
    - You can override in-game settings with radeon settings like Tessellation. (i.e. games like Witcher 3 forcing 64x or so tessellation, you can lock it to 2-32x and have less hit in performance while at 32x it still looks the same.), or other games programs that have crappy implementation and force ugly AA or filters, this can be accomplished without any extra tooling

    Cons
    - Reference models are loud, and hot. Mainly due to bad contact.
    - Some non-ref models are loud and hot, and more expensive. (asus...)
    - If card is running hot Tj Max your driver may crash, and you have to restart your PC to get control over fan or the clocks - even when driver recovers. (not an issue under linux tho, as you can re-load the bios which fixes it)
    - Expensive in terms of performance in games vs NV
    - Latency hurts in-game performance.
    - Freesync often gets botched on certain setups when drivers get updated - causing some odd issues.
    - To play HDR content needs to be full-screen, if system isn't running in HDR mode.
    - 2 year warranty for ~$600 gpu in most cases... what happened to 5 years?
    - Beta drivers can cause odd issues - that are outlined in amd release notes -- they are still recommended to be installed anyway - shouldn't | It should only recommend you to install final releases if it doesn't invite actual problems into your configuration.
     
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  14. rmfa

    rmfa Limp Gawd

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    I respect your opinion. This is my opinion after having both cards for years. I would buy and pay more for the Nvidia all day long.
     
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  15. vjhawk

    vjhawk Limp Gawd

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    1080 > Vega 64.

    It's faster than or ties with Vega 64 on most content. It runs quieter, cooler, and for less energy.

    It's not even close. I mean on paper the numbers look close but for daily ownership I'd take the 1080 10/10 times.

    Of course different AIB cards will have their own tweaks improvements over the reference model but that's always true.

    PS Vega 56 is in fact preferred over the 64 by many AMD users because although it's less powerful on paper it's more power efficient and nearly the same performance.
    This brings us back to the original point, why wouldn't you pick the 1080 in the first place which is either equal to or faster than the 64 in most usage scenarios and is always more power efficient. What did you end up buying?

    Well he said he could get them for $220 so that is dirt cheap compared to a new 5700XT that costs $400 new and performs the same as these older cards.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  16. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    He bought the 1080 for $180. That said, the 1080 and Vega 64 are not equivalent to the 5700XT, the 5700XT is most definitely faster than the other two cards.
     
  17. Zuul

    Zuul Gawd

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    Just buy one or the other ffs. What's the big fucking deaL Almost same perf, other has price, the other has perf. Fucking quit these threads already, There are plenty


    Jyust fyucking buy one or the other
     
  18. mvmiller12

    mvmiller12 Gawd

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    There is no Dana, only Zuul...
     
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  19. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Just read the thread fls. :) I mean, it only answers the question already, what is the big losing deal? :D ;)
     
  20. theonedub

    theonedub n00b

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    Had similar decision to make, went with Vega 64. A 1080ti would've been tempting but ultimately a 1080 wasnt going to cut it. Plus I like full chips not cutdown parts. Power and heat be damned, threw it underwater and undervolted.
     
  21. purple_monster

    purple_monster Gawd

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    DONT buy an amd card you will regret it forever
     
  22. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    YES! Instead buy multiple AMD cards and be very happy :p
     
  23. Burticus

    Burticus [H]ardness Supreme

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    1080ti here, got lucky during the FrgMstr video card purge of 2019. Zero problems. Living the 4K dream.... but I also know well enough to never update my drivers unless I have to for new game support. No matter how much GFE bitches at me.