Buy 2080Ti now, or wait for holidays?

defaultluser

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Nope. Neither is a large die and for the most part is the same price. 2600 vs 3600 had about the same retail IIRC.

New 3600 one costs the same as old 1600 , Both process nodes were brand-new on launch

I'm tired of arguing with a wall. Grow some balls, And learn to accept the fact that the 14nm to 7nm will have similar prices to 28 -> 14. Just because the shrink is not s impressive, doesn't mean they aren'tr still cost savings once yields improve.

If we only cared solely about cost/wafer, we would still be stuck at 32nm. Bu as process tech improves costs go down - that's why Nvidia created their largest wafers ever on an EXPENSIVE 14nm process node..

Even 7nm comes down in price. It's a lot cheaper now than when it launched two yer ago. Let Apple eat the majority of the cpst of a new TSMC node, and by nthe time largerchips are using it, they've found ways to optimize it / lower costs.
 
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Snowdog

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New 3600 one costs the same as old 1600 , Both process nodes were brand-new on launch
I thought you said the new one was cheaper. You need to make up your mind.


I'm tired of arguing with a wall. Grow some balls, And learn to accept the fact that the 14nm to 7nm will have similar prices to 28 -> 14.
Just because you don't know what you are talking about, is no reason to resort to insults.

I know math is hard, maybe a graph will help. Can you see how 14nm -> 7nm is different than 28nm -> 14nm?

I amd_die_cost_increase_per_nm_improvement.jpg

Probably not. Here is some help.

The graph shows a small price increase for similar die area, when moving from 28nm to 14nm, which means the density improvement can give significant transistor price decrease, since you significantly more transistors from the same area.

But it also shows a big 1.8x the cost/mm^2 increase when moving from 14nm to 7nm.

That means unless the transistor density increases by better than 1.8x (hint: it isn't) then you really don't get any significant transistor price decrease.

Do you get it yet? Probably not, but at least I tried.
 

IdiotInCharge

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It was -- Rory Read was being too "conservative" going for under the 1Ghz speed (in order to maximize potential profits by having 3 different product stacks; the "under 1Ghz" and 1 Ghz [or so] ones, as well as the 7950).
Understandable, but dumb move, when your competition is NVIDIA (AMD, via its partners, had to quickly release the 1Ghz 7970s when the GTX 680 turned out to be quite strong vs the "under 1Ghz 7970).
AMDs challenge is that they have no 'safe' moves in the GPU space. Anything they release, Nvidia can counter, and quite likely already has a counter ready.

So they have to game it out. Maybe they try to bait Nvidia; maybe they try, but got 'baited' themselves. They're going to come in at #2 regardless, yet not playing is not an option.

Perhaps that dynamic will change as they get their footing?
 

IdiotInCharge

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I'd say that's unique to people you know. We've seen a year and a half of people groaning about the price of the 2080 Ti. All of the people I personally know who play PC games would like one, none of them own one. I'm not here to debate the price of it, but I do think it's a big narrow minded to pretend there isn't a large number of people who think it's too expensive and/or priced outside their means.
Sure; they just buy something that's slower, yet still several times faster than a console.

I'm not saying consoles are going to change the landscape, but I definitely think they are relevant, especially if they can hit reasonable prices as the performance levels being rumored. In the realm of video game hardware, it's still competition.
It is, more so when the consoles release, moving to laughable competition before the subsequent console release.

Compare AMDs best efforts today to Nvidia's best efforts today; these consoles are going to release against Nvidia's next round.

You don't buy consoles for performance. It ain't there.
 

Snowdog

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AMDs challenge is that they have no 'safe' moves in the GPU space. Anything they release, Nvidia can counter, and quite likely already has a counter ready.

So they have to game it out. Maybe they try to bait Nvidia; maybe they try, but got 'baited' themselves. They're going to come in at #2 regardless, yet not playing is not an option.

Perhaps that dynamic will change as they get their footing?
RDNA/RDNA 2 sound a lot closer to parity with NVidia than Vega was.

With Vega there literally was nothing AMD could do. They need top tier die size to compete at mid teir, and they really couldn't build anything to compete at top tier.

But now, at closer to parity, they could build something competitive at top tier if they are willing to build as big as NVidia.

The question is, who will build the bigger chip? Will AMD push it this time, since they have a chance at the crown, or will they be conservative.

It's definitely going to be the most interesting contest in a great many years.
 

Auer

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I'd say that's unique to people you know. We've seen a year and a half of people groaning about the price of the 2080 Ti. All of the people I personally know who play PC games would like one, none of them own one. I'm not here to debate the price of it, but I do think it's a big narrow minded to pretend there isn't a large number of people who think it's too expensive and/or priced outside their means.

In a general sense, PC gamers are PC gamers and console gamers are console gamers. That doesn't mean the two can exist completely oblivious of the other. Especially as consoles continue to get more and more PC like. What happens when those lines continued to get blurred? When consoles have KBM support, widescreen, variable refresh, 120hz, etc?

I'm not saying consoles are going to change the landscape, but I definitely think they are relevant, especially if they can hit reasonable prices as the performance levels being rumored. In the realm of video game hardware, it's still competition.
Fair enough.

I guess I'm just somewhat amused that so many people assume gamers are on foodstamps or still in highschool saving for a year to get a R580 4gb.

There are a lot of folks on [H] alone with some really spendy gear. A lot.
 

RazorWind

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There are a lot of folks on [H] alone with some really spendy gear. A lot.
Yeah, but this is [H]ard|OCP. Is [H] really representative of the broader gaming community?

Also, it's worth considering that not everyone who posts on [H] plays games. I spend more time screwing around with my "gaming" machines than I do actually playing games on them, in much the same way that I imagine fat baby boomers who have Corvettes spend more time washing and waxing them than they do actually driving them.
 

Furious_Styles

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Fair enough.

I guess I'm just somewhat amused that so many people assume gamers are on foodstamps or still in highschool saving for a year to get a R580 4gb.

There are a lot of folks on [H] alone with some really spendy gear. A lot.
This is a hardware enthusiast forum, the sample is going to be biased hugely in one direction.
 

Auer

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Yeah, but this is [H]ard|OCP. Is [H] really representative of the broader gaming community?

Also, it's worth considering that not everyone who posts on [H] plays games. I spend more time screwing around with my "gaming" machines than I do actually playing games on them, in much the same way that I imagine fat baby boomers who have Corvettes spend more time washing and waxing them than they do actually driving them.
Well there's that, the local Vette club around here is probably 95% retired people...
 

rudy

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I say buy it, the top end card always holds decent value, because there will always be people whom are willing to pay the top end price for the fastest single card. Nvidia knows this, so unless AMD comes out with a competitive card that meets or beats it, nvidia is going to hold steady on prices. Between now and black friday you have months of use and that is worth something. If the next gen was coming out this summer, maybe wait. But I don't think that will happen.
 

IdiotInCharge

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RDNA/RDNA 2 sound a lot closer to parity with NVidia than Vega was.
Closer to Turing, which is about to be replaced.

RDNA2 is AMDs second refinement of 7nm, which must add ray tracing hardware, while Ampere will be a new architecture on a smaller node for Nvidia.

Nvidia has a history of executing in these scenarios; AMD has a history of under delivering on hardware and rat-fucking the drivers.

And regardless of what we'd like AMD to release, or even of what they're capable of releasing, the likelihood that they'll be anywhere near competitive at the top end is very low.
 

JMCB

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I think with all of the COVID-19, this card is going to get delayed, and with a possible major recession in progress, who knows how it’s going to affect the price. I’d say if you really want a 2080 Ti, now is a good time to hit up the secondary market.
 

vjhawk

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Just wait for a sale. The 3080 Ti could drop soon in response to AMD's new RDNA2 cards.

Edit: Ooops, somebody necro'd this? Can we lock this thread then?
 

GoldenTiger

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Just wait for a sale. The 3080 Ti could drop soon in response to AMD's new RDNA2 cards.
Yeah, at this point I couldn't fathom dropping $1200+ on a 2080ti. I'm holding out for the 3000 series. Die shrink plus it's a new architecture.
 

kirbyrj

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Yeah, at this point I couldn't fathom dropping $1200+ on a 2080ti. I'm holding out for the 3000 series. Die shrink plus it's a new architecture.
I doubt you'll see it before Q4 2020 though if the latest rumors have any truth to them.
 

damstr

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I doubt you'll see it before Q4 2020 though if the latest rumors have any truth to them.
That's why I'm picking one up really soon I think. I wanted the best GPU for CP2077 and I don't see the RTX 3XXX series coming out before then so why not pick one up now and enjoy the benefits sooner rather than later.
 
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Nirad9er

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That's why I'm picking one up really soon I think. I wanted the best GPU for CP2077 and I don't see the RTX 3XXX series coming out before then so why not pick one up now and enjoy the benefits sooner rather than later.
If you want to enjoy the card but I believe there's risk in losing 50% in value if the 3080ti comes out at a much lower (normal) price. It's never a good idea to buy an (overpriced) product near end of life especially when we know something new is coming in 6 months. Maybe just get a 2070 super or 2080 for now before upgrading.
 

Auer

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If you want to enjoy the card but I believe there's risk in losing 50% in value if the 3080ti comes out at a much lower (normal) price. It's never a good idea to buy an (overpriced) product near end of life especially when we know something new is coming in 6 months. Maybe just get a 2070 super or 2080 for now before upgrading.
The 2080ti will not get any worse when the 3080whatever comes out. It will still play games very well for a while to come after that.

6 months is a long time.

There is absolutely Zero indication that Nv will "come back to normal" in pricing. Turing is selling well enough to be called "normal pricing"
 

Nirad9er

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I wouldn't say the 2080ti has sold well. It had the same incremental performance increase over the previous generation at double the price. I truly believe Nvidia will not get away with such outrageous pricing in the next generation especially with AMD now competing in the high end with big Navi.
 

vegeta535

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I wouldnt drag consoles and their prices in to this.

Majority of the PC gaming enthusiasts I know are ppl with decent incomes and can easily afford the hobby on mid-high level.
Very few of them are bargain hunters. Most don't blink at the current pricing at all.
Eh I wouldn't say that. I for one can afford a $1200 card but can't justify the cost. $700 Ti no question day one for me but $1200 I hold on to what I have for awhile longer. I am ok buying a $1200 card every other generation but not each. Hell I might just wait til the 4080ti comes out with these prices. I am still happy with my 1080ti.
 

kirbyrj

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The 2080ti will not get any worse when the 3080whatever comes out. It will still play games very well for a while to come after that.

6 months is a long time.

There is absolutely Zero indication that Nv will "come back to normal" in pricing. Turing is selling well enough to be called "normal pricing"
A 2070 super would also play games well enough, not take the hit that a 2080Ti will take, and still leave money left over toward a next gen card.
 
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