Built a new computer and thinking about Win10, worth the switch?

Status
Not open for further replies.

scoobert

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
353
SO, I built a new gaming machine and have plenty of Win7 pro keys I can install but it seems like most of the friends I game with are running win10 pro.
Is it worth the $199 to purchase?

I dont want to upgrade since all my keys are pro OEM and would really prefer to be running the retail version since I changing components pretty often.


Also is there a better option than just going to the Microsoft store and buying a key? Seems like its the same price everyplace.

Thanks folks
Scoob
 
Last edited:
Not really, its been so long since had to buy an OS that I am not up on the discussions.

What drove me to post was all the horrible amazon reviews about scratching off the thing to read the code and destroying it.
 
No need to pay for Windows 10, it is still available if you have a valid Windows license.

If you want to use Windows 10, download the ISO or create a USB installer from the MS website: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Then start the install. When it asks for your key, enter your Windows 7 key, and it will continue the install.

If you already have Windows 7 installed and you want to upgrade, then upgrade using the following MS link: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade
 
There's a wide range of opinion on Windows 10 with the forced updates and privacy concerns being the most heated issues. I think most of the privacy concerns are hype and Microsoft isn't uploading people's hard drives and sending the info to NSA and they do provide a lot of information about what does get collected but they are saying that they are going to reduce what is being collected in the Creators Update this spring. The forced updates I think are more problematic but the Pro version can delay them and there will be UI added to the Creators Update to allow up to a 35 day delay which should be fine for most people, and Windows Update can also be disabled to do driver updates.

For gaming I think 10 is the way to go with new hardware, I've been very pleased with it overall on my sig rig. With it's popularity on Steam I'd say that for gamers that's the majority opinion. I know others of course will have different views.
 
There's a wide range of opinion on Windows 10 with the forced updates and privacy concerns being the most heated issues. I think most of the privacy concerns are hype and Microsoft isn't uploading people's hard drives and sending the info to NSA and they do provide a lot of information about what does get collected but they are saying that they are going to reduce what is being collected in the Creators Update this spring. The forced updates I think are more problematic but the Pro version can delay them and there will be UI added to the Creators Update to allow up to a 35 day delay which should be fine for most people, and Windows Update can also be disabled to do driver updates.

For gaming I think 10 is the way to go with new hardware, I've been very pleased with it overall on my sig rig. With it's popularity on Steam I'd say that for gamers that's the majority opinion. I know others of course will have different views.

Yeh, I too was concerned about that when it first come and even now when you see just how much stuff they have turned on to track by default its amazing.
But after a couple youtube videos and a spy bot program i am pretty content with it. Even the update was easy to get switch back to checking with me when updates are ready to download like 7 did. Overall it seems a little quicker that 7. And I loved 7 :)


Thanks again for all the help guys
 
The only "legit" reason to use Windows 10 at this moment is for gaming that requires DX12, aside from that there's nothing in Windows 10 that Windows 7/8/8.1 can't already do (for the most part) and perhaps some hardware compatibility with some devices on the platforms like Skylake and Kaby Lake but so far Windows 7/8/8.1 run just fine on the same hardware that Windows 10 is supposedly a requirement for.

As for Microsoft pushing their "Windows 7/8/8.1 is less secure..." bullshit the past few weeks, it ain't true as long as they provide the security updates they've promised to provide through 2020. If there happens to be some major seriously catastrophic thing that happens with Windows 7/8/8.1 in the near future it's because they - meaning Microsoft - made it possible for whatever reason they can rationalize as a way to get people to move to Windows 10.

Like it or not, nobody knows more about Windows than Microsoft, and there's no entity out there that can wreck it faster than they can if they choose to do so - look at how badly Windows Update got fucked up for Windows 7/8/8.1 after 10 came out. They've been offering patches and updates and all that other BS since 10 was released and every so often something else breaks on Windows Update for 7/8/8.1 and they're the ones breaking it.

It's up to you in the long run, obviously, but my vote is always going to be use Windows 7 so there it is. ;)
 
I've enjoyed Windows 10 so far.. BUT it has it's share of bugs and things that are downright broken. I would do research on known issues with any software/hardware you have ahead of time before committing to buying. I'm at the point of reverting to Windows 7 myself due to driver issues.

I'm running an evga gtx 970ssc with current drivers and trying to get it to play nice with the Intel GMA chip built into my ivybridge cpu so I can run multiple monitors. The Intel driver and Nvidia driver together are playing hell with Windows 10 and hard lock the machine without so much as a blue screen.

I've tried a testbed fresh version of Windows 10 and the issue is repeatable without fail for me. I've also tried testbeds of Windows 7 and various Linux distros and they work just fine with the multi monitor setup I want.

I'm also having various issues with audio that weren't there with win7/Linux as well as some legacy game compatibility issues.

Overall.. caveat emptor
 
Last edited:
Why Pro? Home is $100 (or more) less.

Because Home forces even less control over updates.

Can't you still use legit Windows 7 keys to upgrade to Windows 10? I did that exact thing only a couple of months ago?
 
Windows 10 changes the activation process pretty significantly. That's one thing to be aware of if you are wanting a Retail edition for the purposes of changing hardware frequently.

I won't say if it's better or worse. I've not had good experiences with it to date.

Also, the EULA changed the legality of transferring licenses. Microsoft now allows for Windows 10 to legally, transfer an OEM license. They used to call it "System Builder", but now they've merged it with OEM and just differentiate how you obtained the software: if it's preinstalled on a computer, it's tied to that computer, if it's a stand-alone software purchase, you can transfer it provided you uninstall it on the old machine before installing on the new one.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

4. Transfer. The provisions of this section do not apply if you acquired the software as a consumer in Germany or in any of the countries listed on this site (aka.ms/transfer), in which case any transfer of the software to a third party, and the right to use it, must comply with applicable law.

a. Software preinstalled on device. If you acquired the software preinstalled on a device (and also if you upgraded from software preinstalled on a device), you may transfer the license to use the software directly to another user, only with the licensed device. The transfer must include the software and, if provided with the device, an authentic Windows label including the product key. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software.

b. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices.
 
Also, the EULA changed the legality of transferring licenses. Microsoft now allows for Windows 10 to legally, transfer an OEM license. They used to call it "System Builder", but now they've merged it with OEM and just differentiate how you obtained the software: if it's preinstalled on a computer, it's tied to that computer, if it's a stand-alone software purchase, you can transfer it provided you uninstall it on the old machine before installing on the new one.

My understanding is that this has always been the case.

- OEM = Tied to the motherboard it's first installed on and non transferable.
- Retail = The licence can be transferred to a new machine provided it's fully removed from the old machine.

The thing is, everyone rang the automated activation service and were able to reactivate their OEM install of Windows on another motherboard/machine because automation.

I've noticed that within the last few months, every time I ring Microsoft for reactivation I get an actual person, not an automated service - And they're not always overly helpful when it comes to reactivating OEM products.
 
I like Win10 .. I don't know if it's me or Microsoft, but any Windows 7 boxes I work on here at home .. will not update no matter how long I let it run (read days) .. but Windows 10 always updates just fine and fast.
 
In the process of building a new-old system right now and I plan on making the switch to Windows 10. I really enjoyed Windows 7 and skipped over 8 and 8.1.
 
My understanding is that this has always been the case.

- OEM = Tied to the motherboard it's first installed on and non transferable.
- Retail = The licence can be transferred to a new machine provided it's fully removed from the old machine.

The thing is, everyone rang the automated activation service and were able to reactivate their OEM install of Windows on another motherboard/machine because automation.

I've noticed that within the last few months, every time I ring Microsoft for reactivation I get an actual person, not an automated service - And they're not always overly helpful when it comes to reactivating OEM products.

That is the way the license for Windows 8 and lower read, so you aren't incorrect. It only recently changed for Windows 10 - they tried the System Builder licence, but quickly rolled it into OEM, and this was the result. One of the better changes Windows 10 brought, in my opinion. Yes, before you could call in, and if you got the automated call line, usually it wouldn't flag (unless you were transferring too frequently). But that doesn't implictly mean that it was "legal" either. Now, it's legal.

And yes, last time I had to transfer a Windows 10 license, I had to speak to a real person (India call center, but she was friendly and understandable), who for 45 minutes kept reading me back those 40-digit authorization keys, which kept failing for some reason. We had to escalate to some engineer in Redmond (or NSA, who knows really), who had to Remote Assist into my computer, 3 different times. No idea what the engineer did, because it blackscreens the local display (it was probably the NSA), but I suspect it was just that the call center lady didn't understand the error dialogs I was getting (probably not in her flow chart). Entire process took more than 3 hours, the reason they gave was that it was an upgrade from Windows 8 (the free upgrade) and for some reason the key switch from Win8 to Win10 was mucking things up. Fortunately I had all my keys available, including purchase information, so they were able to validate everything. It just took a good bit of time and hassle.
 
If you don't mind being spied, keylogged, spammed with ads and rebooted at Microsofts will (oh and every other update resetting your settings) Windows 10 is an excellent choice.
 
I like Win10, but you should already know how this thread will turn out.
pretty much what I expected soon as I saw the title....
as far a w10 goes, ive had no issues except for loosing dts over realtek optical which is a licensing issue, and the xbox 360 controller issue but that's just on the insider preview. so give it a shot! if you have the key and want to try anything dx12 why not!? when you set up windows use the media creation tool to get the newest version and unselect all the snooping stuff during setup. that will take care of most peoples concerns. and the way I look at it, if you are already carrying a smart phone, that little basterd has probably given up more info than w10 will.
 
Might as well go for it but the Windows Updates are so bad I'm inclined to recommend disabling automatic update and downloading cumulative updates a couple of days after release from the Update Catalog site. It doesn't seem like anything good is coming of updating Windows 10 automatically these days.
 
pretty much what I expected soon as I saw the title....
as far a w10 goes, ive had no issues except for loosing dts over realtek optical which is a licensing issue, and the xbox 360 controller issue but that's just on the insider preview. so give it a shot! if you have the key and want to try anything dx12 why not!? when you set up windows use the media creation tool to get the newest version and unselect all the snooping stuff during setup. that will take care of most peoples concerns. and the way I look at it, if you are already carrying a smart phone, that little basterd has probably given up more info than w10 will.

I installed it last night and so far it's been pretty positive experience for me.

The new Z270 board was having sound driver issues under win7 pro and now has no problems under win10. I watched a couple tube videos on what to disable during install and run the anti-beacon software to make sure everything else stays turned off. With pro its easy to set the updates to not download or install unless told too.

So far I like it, but its only been 1 day :)

Scoob
 
That is the way the license for Windows 8 and lower read, so you aren't incorrect. It only recently changed for Windows 10 - they tried the System Builder licence, but quickly rolled it into OEM, and this was the result. One of the better changes Windows 10 brought, in my opinion. Yes, before you could call in, and if you got the automated call line, usually it wouldn't flag (unless you were transferring too frequently). But that doesn't implictly mean that it was "legal" either. Now, it's legal.

And yes, last time I had to transfer a Windows 10 license, I had to speak to a real person (India call center, but she was friendly and understandable), who for 45 minutes kept reading me back those 40-digit authorization keys, which kept failing for some reason. We had to escalate to some engineer in Redmond (or NSA, who knows really), who had to Remote Assist into my computer, 3 different times. No idea what the engineer did, because it blackscreens the local display (it was probably the NSA), but I suspect it was just that the call center lady didn't understand the error dialogs I was getting (probably not in her flow chart). Entire process took more than 3 hours, the reason they gave was that it was an upgrade from Windows 8 (the free upgrade) and for some reason the key switch from Win8 to Win10 was mucking things up. Fortunately I had all my keys available, including purchase information, so they were able to validate everything. It just took a good bit of time and hassle.

For a while there I was having a lot of trouble activating legit keys on brand new Windows installs. It could have been that my USB install media was out of date, I'm honestly not too sure - But I had a number of legit keys that simply wouldn't activate.

I found that the best solution was to start a live session with an MS rep and let them connect remotely and sort it out, in all but one case it was sorted quickly and easily.
 
Upgrade and try it out.. I've been running windows 10 since last summer. im not really happy about it. But the things im unhappy about is not bothering me enough to go back to windows 7.
however any non game machine i make for myself is only getting windows 7.
 
If you don't mind being spied, keylogged, spammed with ads and rebooted at Microsofts will (oh and every other update resetting your settings) Windows 10 is an excellent choice.
Okay B00nie, back to the basement with you.
 
Okay B00nie, back to the basement with you.

Well...He's not wrong...

The only thing I'll use Windows for is gaming at this point. And I'll keep my PII to a minimum on Windows 10.

When Windows 10 first came out, I wasn't convinced about all the privacy problems until I started paying attention to how much traffic my fresh Windows 10 installation was sending back to Microsoft pretty much continuously.
 
OP has already upgraded, good on him. He also appears to know what he is doing so, sounds like this topic ran it's course on Sunday. :) Have fun with your new build OP.
 
As soon as you point out which, if any, of those points there were not true.

What's the point with you? It'll just lead to another B00nie & co circle jerk based on a combination of half-truths and outright falsehoods.

Well...He's not wrong...

The only thing I'll use Windows for is gaming at this point. And I'll keep my PII to a minimum on Windows 10.

When Windows 10 first came out, I wasn't convinced about all the privacy problems until I started paying attention to how much traffic my fresh Windows 10 installation was sending back to Microsoft pretty much continuously.

Yeah, he is. He claims "spying", which means "secretly collecting information", yet the fact data is collected isn't a secret, nor is the type of data that may be collected and how that data is used - all of it is stated in the privacy policy. The consequence for breaching the privacy policy isn't just bad press, it's financial penalties and increased regulatory scrutiny. For example, the FTC loves its consent decrees and vigrously pursues companies that violate consumer protection laws, e.g. by deceptively changing privacy policy, acting in a manner not aligned with the privacy policy, or by attempting to make a privacy policy so full of legalese that a reasonable consumer would be unable to suss it out.

Not content merely to be wrong, he goes even further with claims from the half-truths (e.g. "keylogging") to the potentially libelous (e.g. "spammed with ads"). The privacy policy makes it very clear when and why keystrokes are collected, and in all cases that capability is user-controlled. For example, the privacy policy section about "Speech, Inking, and Typing" shows that the data is scrubbed to remove PII and not used in any way that I'd call "unreasonable" (but again, it can be turned off by those who do):

Additionally, your typed and handwritten words are collected to provide you a personalized user dictionary, help you type and write on your device with better character recognition, and provide you with text suggestions as you type or write. Typing data includes a sample of characters and words you type, which we scrub to remove IDs, IP addresses, and other potential identifiers. It also includes associated performance data, such as changes you manually make to text as well as words you've added to the dictionary.

He was almost right about one thing: the November update, as originally released, had a bug that caused some privacy settings to get reset, which is why the update was pulled and re-released. Yet the claim he made is that "every other update [resets] your settings." If that were true, the FTC would have been on our ass as fast as B00nie comes into a Win10 thread to bash Microsoft.

It's why I told him to go back to the basement - it's the same shit from him in every one of these threads, and the content amounts to little more than threadcrapping - clear rule 4 violations.
 
Yeah, he is. He claims "spying", which means "secretly collecting information", yet the fact data is collected isn't a secret, nor is the type of data that may be collected and how that data is used - all of it is stated in the privacy policy. The consequence for breaching the privacy policy isn't just bad press, it's financial penalties and increased regulatory scrutiny. For example, the FTC loves its consent decrees and vigrously pursues companies that violate consumer protection laws, e.g. by deceptively changing privacy policy, acting in a manner not aligned with the privacy policy, or by attempting to make a privacy policy so full of legalese that a reasonable consumer would be unable to suss it out.

At this point there are just those that are going to spread FUD on the privacy concerns because it's easy to do. One can claim that Microsoft is uploading files right off hard drives and then say it's up to Microsoft to prove them wrong because, Wireshark!
 
Not content merely to be wrong, he goes even further with claims from the half-truths (e.g. "keylogging") to the potentially libelous (e.g. "spammed with ads").

"Spammed" might be exaggerating, but product promotion within the OS would be considered advertising and it's been fairly regularly reported.
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/01/21/microsoft_has_added_another_advertisement_inside_windows_10
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2016/05...w_more_start_menu_ads_in_windows_10_redstone/
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2016/02/25/windows_10_users_seeing_fullscreen_ads_as_screen_savers

and wherever that "edge is better" story is.

System defaults are what the system is judged upon. I'm not trying to stoke any fires, but that point was one I disagreed with.

OP has already upgraded, good on him. He also appears to know what he is doing so, sounds like this topic ran it's course on Sunday. :) Have fun with your new build OP.
And you almost had this thread floating under the bridge with the rest of the water. :D
 

The newest article cited is 6 months old and judging by my personal use of Windows 10 the pop ups are not much of an issue. Most popups I see now are not pushing a product, but just letting me know that a Windows Defender scan has successfully completed. Just my 2 cents and not meant to start a war.
 
The newest article cited is 6 months old and judging by my personal use of Windows 10 the pop ups are not much of an issue. Most popups I see now are not pushing a product, but just letting me know that a Windows Defender scan has successfully completed. Just my 2 cents and not meant to start a war.
Newest was 3 days ago.
 
Yeah, he is. He claims "spying", which means "secretly collecting information", yet the fact data is collected isn't a secret, nor is the type of data that may be collected and how that data is used - all of it is stated in the privacy policy. The consequence for breaching the privacy policy isn't just bad press, it's financial penalties and increased regulatory scrutiny. For example, the FTC loves its consent decrees and vigrously pursues companies that violate consumer protection laws, e.g. by deceptively changing privacy policy, acting in a manner not aligned with the privacy policy, or by attempting to make a privacy policy so full of legalese that a reasonable consumer would be unable to suss it out.

Behold, ladies and gentlemen, the degree of mental gymnastics an Microsoft employee will go to in hopes of distracting from the elephant in the room: the privacy controversy would go away with a Telemetry Off switch. But they won't do it. So we're relegated to the kind of doublespeak nonsense you see here.

BTW: Microsoft has *never* disclosed exactly what's being collected at every level of telemetry - not in the "privacy policy", not anywhere. And no one will be able to prove otherwise with a link to those details, since they've never been made public. Communication from Microsoft has been abysmal and nonexistent on this front.
 
Last edited:
What's the point with you? It'll just lead to another B00nie & co circle jerk based on a combination of half-truths and outright falsehoods.

Thanks for proving my point. No disproving, only a personal attack.
 
Not content merely to be wrong, he goes even further with claims from the half-truths (e.g. "keylogging") to the potentially libelous (e.g. "spammed with ads"). The privacy policy makes it very clear when and why keystrokes are collected, and in all cases that capability is user-controlled.

So you admit Windows 10 is keylogging lol. And you need special tricks to turn it off, too: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-disable-hidden-keylogger-in-windows-10-3639643/
 
If you have a Windows 7 key, use it. Here is what I would do...
  • Get an external hard drive and drive imaging software (I use TrueImage, but I'm sure that someone has a free
  • Do the initial install of Windows 7 and register the install.
  • Make an image.
  • Install all of the drivers.
  • Make an image.
  • Install all of the programs that you use.
  • Make an image.
  • Update to Windows 10.
  • Make an image.
That way, it is much easier to roll back to Windows 7 if you don't like Windows 10, and your Windows 7 key will be associated with Windows 10.
 
Beware, don't ever use Windows 10! It will rape your wife, kidnap your children, sell them into slavery, burn your house down, cause cancer, get Trump elected president, give you AIDS, and send data about you to Microsoft. Stay away bro! :sick:
 
Beware, don't ever use Windows 10! It will rape your wife, kidnap your children, sell them into slavery, burn your house down, cause cancer, get Trump elected president, give you AIDS, and send data about you to Microsoft. Stay away bro! :sick:

Well I don't know how else you're able to explain Trump getting elected.

..And I thought Australia had it bad.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top