Building New Rig. Comments, Suggestions, Philosophy, Opinion, and Theoretical, all Welcomed!!

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
304
I haven't chosen a MB yet because the choices are mind numbing. For now, I'm just going to use my old AMD 7950 Vid Card, so choosing a card can wait. I'll just list my concerns and let the thread spread out from there.

I will NOT be doing any OCing.

AMD budget gaming rig, with enough CPU to upgrade the card and play games without problems for the next 3 years. I mostly play MMOs, which are usually far behind in CPU/GPU needs, but occasionally I may take a break and play a single player game like CoD or Crysis.

CPU--
Enough headroom to upgrade the video card in the next couple of years. Other than that criteria, I don't care about the CPU unless there is some reason to be worried about it for future gaming and vid card upgrades. I'll be running games at 1080 for the foreseeable future because when I do upgrade my current monitor, I'll be staying with a monitor no larger than 32". I'd rather have max FPS than higher resolutions.


Motherboard--
I've just started researching this area. HDMI and Display ports on a MB? Only one Ethernet connection? Two PCIe slots? Fans for chips set? Only two RAM slots? If possible, I'd rather go with a fanless motherboard. I've been seeing mostly two PCIe slI do want to either have on board or be able to add a wifi card.
--What I'd like to have:
---Very good BIOS level fan control.
---Passive Cooling (If that is even a thing anymore)
---Enough expansion slots to add a wifi card. I just can't believe these boards only come with two PCIe slots. Or, built in wifi.
---Good amount of USB 3+ ports (unless there is some reason i need USB 2, or some other port.
That's really all I can think of, but I'd rather have better parts than bells and whistles.

RAM--Open to suggestions
------

I think I can handle the PSU and Case and I'll list those below for comment also.

So far, this is what I have come up with.

-Ryzen 5 2600 (If I really have to, I could go with the 7 2700, but I'd rather spend that extra money on a better board or RAM. If there is a choice between those two, I'm open. I really don't want the older 2700x because of power consumption. The 2600 is $114 with a cooler and the 2700 is $148 with a cooler. (Will the Wraith cooler they come with be sufficient? Is it push pin design where the plastic pins just push through the MB, or do they screw down? Either way, if it will be enough to keep it cool and it's quite, that's enough. I just don't want to be running hot with stock speeds and have a noisy fan running.

MB--No idea.

PSU--
Seasonic FOCUS Plus 550 Platinum SSR-550PX 550W
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074N8YBK9/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

CASE--
Rosewill Cullenan: I'm looking for the absolute smallest case I can find that can take an ATX MB, and that has good cooling. This one measures just 15x15x10 inches. I'm going to flip it on it's size and add rubber feet to the flat side panel
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DJ7DNJ3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=A3K929QT0IENFR&psc=1

RAM--Really no idea. Just looking for a name brand that is price worthy of a budget build.
Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 3200 MHz DDR4 DRAM Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 16GB (8GBx2) CL16
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MNJP6RW/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_5?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
I also don't know how much I should go with.I've read 16GB is rock bottom these days. Also, if I do go with 16GB, should I get a single stick so I can upgrade alter? Or, are 16GB stocks not desirable? I'd rather have slower RAM and more of it than faster and less, unless that will cause my system to bottle neck. In fact, I don't really care if the RAM is 'slow' by today's standards as long as it is fast enough for my system to operate at it's full potential.

--Possible replacement for the stock cooler, something I can put a nice, quite 120mm fan on.

Thanks in advance!
 
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janas19

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
1,744
This comment is just focused on the case. But if you are going to flip it, I wouldn't want to have that glass on top. You drop something on it and it could break. I'd get a different material if that's the plan
 

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
304
This comment is just focused on the case. But if you are going to flip it, I wouldn't want to have that glass on top. You drop something on it and it could break. I'd get a different material if that's the plan
Shit. Good point. I never really thought about that. However, it's tempered glass, so it is harder to break. I can keep it upright too. What do you think about the case, especially for the price? I have one of their tower cases that I was impressed with, called the THOR v2. They still sell it. It's a huge case with really think steel, no flex at all. It's just TOO bog for me. That Rosewill Cullenan above is almost as small as most mATX cases. There is a mATX Cooler Master I would love to have because it has one 200mm fan in front and a 200mm fan in the top, which I think is really nice. Since boards tehse days seem to only ahve two ram slots and two PCIe slots, maybe it's time to try the mATX? Actualy, it would only be for the CoolerMaster case:

It's 12x9x12 so not really much smaller than the Rosewill ATX case.
819WUvDmt8L._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 

janas19

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
1,744
Shit. Good point. I never really thought about that. However, it's tempered glass, so it is harder to break. I can keep it upright too. What do you think about the case, especially for the price? I have one of their tower cases that I was impressed with, called the THOR v2. They still sell it. It's a huge case with really think steel, no flex at all. It's just TOO bog for me. That Rosewill Cullenan above is almost as small as most mATX cases. There is a mATX Cooler Master I would love to have because it has one 200mm fan in front and a 200mm fan in the top, which I think is really nice. Since boards tehse days seem to only ahve two ram slots and two PCIe slots, maybe it's time to try the mATX? Actualy, it would only be for the CoolerMaster case:

It's 12x9x12 so not really much smaller than the Rosewill ATX case.
View attachment 215226
I wasn't able to find that Cooler Master case you mentioned. Do you know if it's available for sale in the USA?

Here is a basic $400 build with the popular Thermaltake Core V1 cube case. Based on the usage you described, it doesn't seem you would need extra PCIe slots of an ATX motherboard and a compact mATX build would suit you well. You also mentioned wanting a smaller case, so I went with that.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 3.4 GHz 6-Core Processor ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF B450M-PLUS GAMING Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($89.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($69.98 @ Amazon)
Case: Thermaltake Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($69.00 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX (2017) 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $403.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-01-12 17:11 EST-0500


Here is another possible case for $30 more: Thermaltake Level 20. It does have a tempered glass top but it's a full-panel cabinet case that's designed to sit on the floor.

There's a lot of different possible options for the build such as:

- More features/higher performance

- RGB/aesthetics

You can get more as you spend more, however this is a base build which offers great performance/dollar rate.
 

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
304
I wasn't able to find that Cooler Master case you mentioned. Do you know if it's available for sale in the USA?
Sorry, I forgot to link it. Yes, it's on Amazon. It's not a huge amount smaller than the Rosewill case though. I mean 3" is a lot, but the Rosewill case is 15x15x10 and the CM mATX is 12x12x9.
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-MasterCase-Mini-ITX-Built/dp/B07TMRGV6D/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=cooler+master+mATX&qid=1578938773&s=electronics&sr=1-4

I rteally didn;t want to go mATX, but thenI'm seeing a lot of AMD boards in teh 1-0-120 range with only TWO PCIe slotsand 2 ram slots, so if that is teh case, then an mATX gives teh same amount of expansion and can run smaller cases. But, not a lot smaller.
 
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janas19

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
1,744
Sorry, I forgot to link it. Yes, it's on Amazon. It's not a huge amount smaller than the Rosewill case though. I mean 3" is a lot, but the Rosewill case is 15x15x10 and the CM mATX is 12x12x9.
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-MasterCase-Mini-ITX-Built/dp/B07TMRGV6D/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=cooler+master+mATX&qid=1578938773&s=electronics&sr=1-4

I rteally didn;t want to go mATX, but thenI'm seeing a lot of AMD boards in teh 1-0-120 range with only TWO PCIe slotsand 2 ram slots, so if that is teh case, then an mATX gives teh same amount of expansion and can run smaller cases. But, not a lot smaller.
That's a mini ITX case and won't be compatible with an ATX motherboard.

This is a full-sized ATX system build. It comes to $419 total.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 3.4 GHz 6-Core Processor ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($69.98 @ Amazon)
Case: NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.98 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX (2017) 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $419.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-01-13 17:03 EST-0500
 

DrDoU

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
2,499
Also look at the msi tomahawk for 111.99. Great cooling on the vrms.
I have a 2600 cpu at 4.1ghz @ 1.375 volts with cheap corsair h50 aio cooler and temps never get out of hand. Could probably go 4.2ghz all core if i played with it.
Techspot raves about these boards check out their review.
 
Joined
May 4, 2018
Messages
38
Let me start off by saying that mmos can be very heavy on cpu load depending on the engine and how optimized it is for multiple threads. Imagine sitting in a main city with 50,100 or more people right in the sam espot moving around. The Cpu has to do all that calculating. Luckily developers are starting to catch up to the multi core era, but there are still some outliers with regards to un-optimized games. As a reference the 9900k is the gold standard of single threaded performance. The ryzen 7 3800x is very close in single threaded performance, but is significantly cheaper. This tier I believe will provide enough single threaded performance for older games ( like some mmos), yet have enough cores/threads to have some level of future proofing. This tier would be for pushing much further than 60fps @ 1080p or 1440p at least for a couple years for the majority of new titles save for some poorly optimized ports ( mostly from consoles)

Ryzen 3600 is a pretty good spot, but with unoptimized mmos you could see sub 60fps (I would imagine higher than 30 at its worse) but a good amount of games will run 100fps+ with the right video card.

Id say whatever tier you choose, Ryzen is the safest for future proofing. Intel is notorious for switching sockets at a very fast rate.
 

jstanthr

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
235
In all my research in the b450 v x470 came down to a few things (x570 if ur going with the new chips)
-Not going SLI so both choices are valid
-Main difference is how they divide up the pcie lanes when it comes to the nvme sockets and the pcie slots

-worst of all choices is the asus prime boards if you want 2 nvme drives. if you populate the 2nd m2 slot it cuts the pciex16_1 slot down to 8x which IMO is insane, but non issue if your using an +graphics cpu.
-most boards cut off lanes from the 2nd pciex16 or x4/x1 sockets to get the second m2 slot up
-gigabyte sacrifices sata ports to get it which imo is a great solution

and that is why I ended up with the Gigabyte Aorus elite b450, its cheap enough i can swap later on if im not happy with it
would have liked usb 3.1g2 and a type c slot, but i have a pciex card that will take care of that so not a deal breaker
i also considered the asrock b450/x470 steel legend boards, they are very good choices from my research

this is just my opinion
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
966
I would either the the 1600 AF for cheaper, or 'splurge' and get the significantly faster Ryzen 5 3600.

I'm a believer in inexpensive motherboards if you've not got a specific reason to reach for higher end. I personally run a B450 Pro4 that I got for literally $40 at Microcenter because I bought it bundled with my CPU, and it's 100% rock solid.

Also, not sure people mentioned yet - onboard HDMI and VGA ports and whatnot on AMD motherboards are *only* for APUs - the CPUs that have a G in the name. The basic Ryzen 1600/2600/3700 etc don't have onboard GPUs so the onboard video outputs won't be active, so you can ignore them.

I also think your power supply is overpriced. Power supply 'quality' has become like a religion, which is hilarious because assuming you're not OC'ing power requirements by the average system has *not* gone up much in the past few years. 'Back in the day' Nvidia and AMD started saying "You need 550W+ power suppiles" (or higher) for their GPUs, but that was largely based on lots of power supplies not being able to actually deliver their stated power output, so rather than saying that you need a "good 400W power supply" they just said you needed a 550W and assumed that even a cheap 550 would be able to deliver the actual wattage the GPU needed, which was likely under 250W. Case in point, power draw at the wall for my Ryzen 7 3700X + GTX 1080 Ti + 5 hard drives + 32 GB RAM is under 500W under full intensity gaming. I'm not OC'ing, obviously, but that's still pretty low considering the specs in question. Moral of the story, grab a decent power supply from a decent company that happens to be on sale.
 
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