Building in 2-3 weeks, looking for opinions on mobo, case, display and graphics cards

S

semisonic9

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Build time! Well, no, not really. But soon! Now that the 4870x2s are out, and, more importantly, that Fall term financial aid is around the corner, it's time to start planning out my next build. Purchase date is early to mid-September, or as soon as my student loans hit these hot little hands! ;) I never thought I'd be happy to go in debt before, btw. :p

Here's what I'm working with so far:

Newegg Wishlist: Project, 4/08

For those with that rare disease "link-o-phobia", it's a fairly standard build based around a q6600, a Corsair 750w PSU and an older Lian Li case. 4gb G. skill ram, a 4870x2, a 640gb WD drive, plus heatsink, thermal paste, etc. round out the parts list.

Ok, first let me say that I probably won't buy all my parts at Newegg. I'll probably look around on the case, PSU, processor and graphics card.

The build is for general purpose uses. It's intended to carry me through the next 12-18 months without needing a major upgrade, at which point I will probably swap to a Nethalem chip/mobo if necessary. Anticipating this swap by X-mas of next year at the latest is why I didn't go for a q9550 and a more cutting-edge mobo now. Realistically, as long as I'm not CPU-limited in the gaming I'm likely to do in the meantime, I might as well save a few bucks.

I do a fair bit of gaming, but will also use this for whatever comes my way in my major (Computer Engineering @ UCF) or interests me personally in the next few years. This is likely to include audio/video editing. For gaming, I'll probably pick up Team Fortress 2 and re-up with WoW right away. When WAR, the WoW expansion, SC2, Diablo 3, etc come out, I'm sure to pick those up as well. I may dabble in the Supreme Commander games or Crysis at some point. Ditto AoC, if the servers aren't completely devoid of life by the time I get to them.

I intend to OC the Q6600 north of 3.2ghz, but I probably won't push it to it's limit. My main goals are a healthy increase in speed and to avoid a CPU bottle-neck in as much gaming as I possibly can, for as long as I can.


My questions are sorted by category, below.

Gaming/Display:
  • If I'm gaming @ 1900x1200 how much do I really need a gt260 or 4870x2? I want a single-card solution, but I'm trying to decide if I should just go with a 4870 for starters and pocket the change? My purchase date keeps being pushed back (mid-September now). If the 4870x2s are down to $450-500 shipped by then, I might pull the trigger, but otherwise I'm seriously considering saving my money.
  • I'd like monitor recommendations in the 22"+ range. I was planning on going with the 26" Doublesight, but it's looking a bit steep at $750 before shipping. I need something that can game well (low input lag), looks great on a desk, is bright but readable, and won't break my bank (sub-$800 plz). If I end up going with the BenQ or something and saving some change, great, but I was really hoping for a non-TN panel. Likewise, since my build-date is mid-Sept, if the DS is out and reasonable in price by then, I may hop on it.


Motherboard:
  • I know crap about mobos. I need some serious guidance here. Since I'm going single-slot on my vid card, I assume I want either a p35 or a p45. What's the difference? My only preference is for something that OCs on the better end and has a decent (relatively speaking) onboard sound card.
  • Also, I believe I've seen it written that Q6600s don't need anything more than DDR2 800 ram? Why is this?

Case:
I'm not in love with the Lian Li A71b. I want a nice full-tower case with a lot of attention paid to noise control, that can accomodate a WC build later if I get froggy, but that doesn't suffocate my components in the meantime. I like Lian Li's understated, classy designs. The A71b is an "older model", and is a good $100 or more beneath some of the newer models that include stuff like hot-swappable HDs and other crap I'm not interested in. Still...for $240 or so, I just can't help feeling that I should be more in love with this case rather than simply picking it as the last man standing. *sigh*

  • Is there anything else you guys would recommend in this price-range? I consider the "high end case" offerings so dismal or over-priced right now that I'm honestly considering just hopping down to a p182 or CM 590 and pocketing the change. If I do that, I think I'm more likely to sell the build complete in 12-18 months, rather than part-swap my way to upgrades.

Anyways, thanks in advance for your opinions/advice!

~S
 
You have three Q6600 CPU and Arctic silver 5 listed in your wishlist. Also, I recommend spending the extra $5 more that 3 year warranty with a retail CPU (The OEM you chose only has a 90 day warranty):
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU - $190

To answer your questions:
- If you can't stand lowering any kind of settings and want the maximum eye candy, then yes get the HD4870 X2. If yo're willing to turn down several settings and don't mind just a little bit of eye candy, then get the HD4870. The HD4870X2 is meant for those who cannot stand medium quality gaming.
- This BenQ monitor looks like a popular choice in the display forums
BenQ G2400WD Black 24" HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor - $380

- P45 has PCI-E 2.0 whereas the P35 doesn't That's the major noteworthy difference. But since P45 motherboards can be found for the same price as P35 motherboards, go with P45 since PCI-E 2.0 might be needed for future video cards. Some motherboard recommendations:
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L Intel P43 Motherboard - $90
MSI P45 Neo3-FR Intel P45 Motherboard - $112
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $128
Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard - $140
Biostar TPower I45 Intel P45 Motherboard - $150
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $180
Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
DFI Lanparty DK X48-T2R Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you don't need more than 6 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, x8/x8 Crossfire, and great overclocks, then get the DS3R. If you like the DS3R but need 8 SATA ports, want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup, just support for 8GB of RAM, and don't need a second gigabit port, get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want a motherboard with excellent overclocking capabilities above all else (feature wise), go with the I45. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38. If you have cash to burn, need x16/x16 Crossfire, and don't give a damn about getting the most value for your money, get the Asus, DFI, or Gigabyte X48 motherboards. Do note that the Asus website can be slow sometimes.

- Here's why Q6600 CPUs do not need more than DDR2 800 RAM:

Stated FSB/4 = Actual FSB
Multiplier x Actual FSB = CPU Speed
1:1 Ratio: 2 x Actual FSB = RAM Speed
1:1 Ratio: FSB = 1/2 RAM speed

Q6600:
Multi x Actual FSB, Stated FSB, RAM Speed = Clock Speed
9 x 266Mhz, 1066Mhz, DDR2 533 RAM = 2.4Ghz <== Stock Speeds
9 x 333Mhz, 1333Mhz, DDR2 667 RAM = 3.0Ghz <== Good OC
9 x 400Mhz, 1600Mhz, DDR2 800 RAM = 3.6Ghz <== Excellent OC, About the Max
 
Danny Bui said:
You have three Q6600 CPU and Arctic silver 5 listed in your wishlist. Also, I recommend spending the extra $5 more that 3 year warranty with a retail CPU (The OEM you chose only has a 90 day warranty):
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU - $190
Click to expand...

I'm only showing one of each, but Newegg does this to me occasionally. Weird.

Good tip on the warranty, but won't OCing it void the warranty anyways? Or is this a "don't ask, don't tell" deal? Is there any way for them to find out, should I need to excercise said warranty?

Thanks for the explanation about the RAM as well, btw!

~S
 
Cool, good stuff. I'll fill in the build a bit with a few peripherals soon. Webcams, speakers, etc.

~S
 
Out of curiosity, you have a ballpark figure on how much you plan on spending on this new build?
 
$2k-ish. The DS is a 26" that took up a $700 chunk of the budget. If I end up going with a BenQ or something else in the $300-400 range, I'll probably either pocket the change or look into a nice speaker setup.

All told, I'd go up to $2.5k after tax and shipping, if I can be convinced of the value.

MrGuvernment said:
marking
Click to expand...
What does that mean? Subscribing?

~S
 
Damn, the Doublesight went up over $700 on Buy.com. I remember it being $680 with free shipping. Man.. in this case, I would drop that Doublesight 26" and get the BenQ V2400W for $423 at Buy.com with free shipping. It uses the similar panel to the BenQ G2400WD but its aesthetics is different. If you care for the looks for the monitor. If not, the G2400WD will do. TN panel yah, but alot of people are pretty happy with it. I would say it is one of the better TN lcds out there.

http://www.buy.com/prod/benq-v2400w...200-5ms-0-27mm-250-1/q/loc/101/207993612.html

$300 extra for the Doublesight 26" is alot. That is the CPU/Mobo combo already.
 
Yeah, I remember that too. The problem is that not only was the Doublesight a good gaming monitor, but I figure it would serve well enough for watching DVDs and such in my room when I wanted to, which is important because I don't currently have a TV in my room.

On the other hand, I'm also considering buying a flat screen lcd for the wall. *shrug* Everything is up in the air atm.
 
Ok, I am leaning towards the Ben Q atm.

That frees up some cash for a Logitech Orbit webcam and possibly a Logitech G9 laser mouse. Plus, I may want to look into trifles like speakers and a scanner/printer or something. /facepalm

I love my G5 rev 1, and think it's possibly the best-looking mouse I've ever owned. In that capacity, I think I'm going to make it my "road mouse" and tuck it into the laptop bag. Of course, if I don't like the G9 I may just stick with what works. *shrug*

~S
 
Mouse is totally up to you. That's a personal preference item.

As for the webcam, dunno anything about webcams. So can't help you there.
 
Here's what I would suggest. I'm pretty much in the same boat. Gonna build a new rig in September.

E8400 "E0" stepping if they are released.
Asus P5Q-Pro
2x2GB DDR2-800 Corsair Dominator
ATI 4870
BenQ G2400WD or V2400 if you prefer the look (they use the same panel so..)
WD Raptor 150GB - (300GB Velociraptor is nice but oh so pricey )
Razer Lachesis mouse
Logitech G15 rev2
Corsair PSU (550watts+)
Antec 300 case suits my needs but to each his own.
Prelude Auzentech 7.1 soundcard to go with my Sennheiser HD595 headphones...
 
Koslov said:
Here's what I would suggest. I'm pretty much in the same boat. Gonna build a new rig in September.

2x2GB DDR2-800 Corsair Dominator
...
WD Raptor 150GB - (300GB Velociraptor is nice but oh so pricey )
Click to expand...

Your build could use some tweaking too. Don't bother with the 150GB Raptor. The WD6400AAKS in the OP's build actually outperforms that Raptor drive. Unless you're talking about the new Velociraptor 150GB?

And don't bother with Dominator RAM. They are never worth the higher costs.
 
I definately prefer G. Skill ram. They represent great bang/buck while avoiding the rebate "shell game" that other manufacturers play.

~S
 
If I were you I'd go with an X48 chipset motherboard (Asus Rampage), an E8600 Core Duo, and a 4870x2. This will smoke most Quad cores with GTX 280s in almost all games, almost match GTX 280 SLI, and leave you with a path to Crossfire for a Quad GPU system, to which you can add an Extreme Quad CPU when they drop in price and raise the GHz. The only reason 4870x2 CF isn't smoking the benches is because the drivers still need some work and games haven't been written to take advantage of such a setup yet.

Let me put it this way. You mentioned Diablo III. Blizzard just announced a partnership with ATI. Plus, Diablo III will use Havok physics like ATI is planning to introduce into the cards to complete with Nvidia's PhysX GPU support. I guarantee you that Diablo III will run way better on the machine above than any standard quad core with 280 SLI. Now Skulltrail or Tri-SLI is a different story, but you don't have THAT much money, do you?

Make sure you have a 1000W PSU if you want to Crossfire the 4870x2, I suggest Corsair or Silverstone.

As for a monitor, nothing can touch the Gateway 24", honestly. They're so good I have two of them.
 
You say you want a single card solution, so no reason to go with a more expensive X48 board. Even if you do decide to go crossfire, you'll be running at PCIe 2.0 8x8 which gives you the same bandwidth as 16x16 PCIe 1.1.
 
ElektroDragon said:
If I were you I'd go with an X48 chipset motherboard (Asus Rampage), an E8600 Core Duo, and a 4870x2. This will smoke most Quad cores with GTX 280s in almost all games, almost match GTX 280 SLI, and leave you with a path to Crossfire for a Quad GPU system, to which you can add an Extreme Quad CPU when they drop in price and raise the GHz.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what CPU you have. At above 1280x1024, most games are GPU limited rather than CPU limited. You'll see similar performance between a Q6600 and E8400 CPU despite the Q6600's lower clock speed with most games out there:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-in-games-with-quad-core-processors/
 
I agree with Danny about the processors, but have to add that I often multi-task like a mofo and may do a bit of encoding in the next year or so.

As far as general use goes, I'm the guy playing a video game full-screen while running 3-4 chat services in the background and listening to music or a playing a DVD in the background just for the audio (yes, I know it's weird). And I'm also the guy who gets annoyed when my CPU can't keep up with my multi-tasking.. That's the primary reason for my going with a quad core chip over a dual core, though I will admit that the Q6600 is so close to the dual-cores now I see very few arguments to be made for dual core at this stage. Especially for what I'd call "general tech-forum guy's usage", which is a bit more involved than "Joe-consumer".

As far as CPU/Mobo, keep in mind that I plan to upgrade to Nethalem chip/mobo sometime within the next 10-16 months. At that point, I'll assess whether I want to upgrade to a stronger single-card solution or xfire an additional 4870x2. For the immediate future, the 4870x2 is quite a bit of over-kill for the games I plan on purchasing, a thread on which can be found here. I suspect, when the time comes, that I'll either upgrade to a superior single-card solution or "stand pat" with the 4870x2. It depends if the trends in consolve vs PC gaming continue.

~S
 
Danny Bui said:
It doesn't matter what CPU you have. At above 1280x1024, most games are GPU limited rather than CPU limited. You'll see similar performance between a Q6600 and E8400 CPU despite the Q6600's lower clock speed with most games out there:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-in-games-with-quad-core-processors/
Click to expand...

Perhaps... I just used this article to base my CPU decision: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e8600_6.html#sect0

Are you saying I should have bought a Quad core instead? Oh well, I'll probably snag an Extreme Quad in a few years when they cost like $100 instead of $1100.
 
ElektroDragon said:
Are you saying I should have bought a Quad core instead? Oh well, I'll probably snag an Extreme Quad in a few years when they cost like $100 instead of $1100.
Click to expand...

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that your E8600 will not outperform any Intel Quad-core CPU and vice versa when playing at resolutions above 1280x1024. And don't expect to pay that little for a Extreme quad in a few years short of hitting up eBay or being part of Intel's retail edge.. The QX6700 was released in 2006 at $1000. Two years later, it's only dropped down to $685. And it is outperformed by the significantly cheaper $280 Q9450.

Even if it did drop to $100, it will most likely be outperformed by a similarly priced CPU. The Pentium Extreme Edition 840 was released in 2005 @ $1000. Three years later it has dropped to $110. But the E7200 at $120 will outperform that CPU by a huge margin. Even the $70 E2180 will outperform that Extreme Edition CPU.

So the point of this rant/argument: Don't bother with the Extreme Edition CPUs a few years from now.
 
Crazy, I'm building pretty much the exact same system and in the same time frame.

Only difference is I'm replacing the 4870x2 with just a regular 4870 (which I think will be plenty for my needs) and using my current lian li case.

Heres wishing us both good luck :D
 
/\

Actually, to be honest, if 4870x2 prices don't come down by then I may go with a 4870 or even a gt260, and then sell it off and upgrade later. I'd love to support ATI this round, but I was expecting this card around $450-500. It's got a little more than 2 weeks to come down, so we'll see what happens then.

Which Lian Li case do you have?

~S
 
Yeah, I like that case. Wish it was still made, to be honest. I might snatch it up.

As it is, I'm torn between going with something like a p192 or CM 590, Stacker, or Cosmos vs a lian li a71b vs the newer lian lis.

~S
 
Ok, slight delay in financial aid pushed this build's ordering date back to around the 20th of September.

On the upside, that gives more time for prices to come down! Build can still be found here.

I definately decided to go with a Lian Li case. I stopped by BestBuy the other day, trying to decide on a 24 vs 26 inch monitor. I also checked out sound options and looked at some metal cases they had, vs some plastic options. There was no contest. I definately want a big, quiet, and oh-so-sexy metal case. I'm going with the older Lian Li A70s and saving a few bucks over some of their newer models.

Still on the fence about 4870x2 or 4870. Pretty sure I'm going to go with one of the mid-range cards for now, and pass it down to a friend of mine when I'm ready to upgrade. Since I'm mainly looking at playing WoW, WAR, etc, it's hard to justify the extra expense atm. Maybe if the 4870x2 hits $500 after shipping somewhere... *crosses fingers*

Mobo-wise, I really like the Biostar TPower I45, but it's popularity and solid reviews are driving up the price. Now going for like $175 shipped, from the 'egg. I liked it better when it was a scrappy price-performer clawing for market share. :D

The Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R Intel P45 Motherboard and Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard constitute the remaining options. Part of me wants to go with the P5Q for the Linux features, but the rest of me wants to take advantage of some of the deals out there on the DS3R and walk away with the spare change.

Anyways, GF is pecking at me to get off the machine atm. I'll check in later.

-S
 
o so seksi lian li ftw.

$175? wow... not worth it. Either of the other two should be cheaper and perform the same.
 
Yeah. The things are among the best OC boards out there atm, but even at $150 + shipping they were starting to get a bit high. Newegg is doing open-boxes for $110, I think, which come with a 15 day return policy. The big question there, I guess, would be whether Biostar still warranties these or not.

Not thinking a mobo is something I want to ***k around with too much, I think I'm going for the DS3R unless I can find the Biostar somewhere for less.

-S
 
The next question is whether the Corsair 750TX has enough power for a 4870x2 and the rest of the build.

HardOCP is showing a 4870x2 drawing slightly north of 500w at full load. Yeesh! What would an OC'd Q6600 and maybe 1-2 extra hard-drives than I have here draw? I'm also considering water-cooling this within a year or so (if not now! Still up in the air on that but I have my parts picked out already), so therer's that to consider as well.

Should I reach for a little more club here? 850w?

-S
 
semisonic9 said:
HardOCP is showing a 4870x2 drawing slightly north of 500w at full load. Yeesh! What would an OC'd Q6600 and maybe 1-2 extra hard-drives than I have here draw?
Click to expand...

Most likely about the same. The recent HardOCP review of the HD4870X2 had a test setup with an Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 Overclocked to 3.66GHz which should roughly the same if not more power than an OC'd Q6600. An extra two drives will add another 10 to 15W each. So yes, the 750TX will be enough.
 
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