Budget Dual-Core Workstation

Stuh505 said:
It seems this ram used to be going for $85 recently and just got bumped up about $10. Cool to learn that "128x64" = single, and "64x64" = double. Wierd, Newegg won't let you buy more than 2x of this ram. So they lost my business. It was difficult to find anywhere else that even sells them, but I ended up getting 4 at the same price from chiefvalue.com They even gave me free shipping making it cheaper.

So, here's what I've paid:

$66.98 1x COOLER MASTER Real Power RS-450-ACLY ATX12V 450W Power Supply
$399.95 1x nVidia Quadro FX 3000 GPU
$74.00 1x MSI K8N NEO2-F Motherboard
$376.28 1x AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core processor 3800+*
$379.96 4x RW400/1024 1 GB PC3200 128x64 RAM

TOTAL $1297.17

(These were all separate orders and I included the cost of 3-day shipping in the costs)

But don't worry, this thread isn't dead until the benchmarks are posted :p

EDIT: I CANT WAIT!!!
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Glad you were able to find the memory. You have one sweet setup there! I can't wait for the final word on performance!
 
Stuh505 said:
<edited>

Well, I'm planning to put a 32 bit OS on here. But if I use Windows XP, then only 2 GB goes to my programs and the other 2 GB goes to Windows! I would really like to have all 4 GB of it accessible to programs. Would I be able to do this if I ran Windows Server 2003? I'm worried if the "pae fix" in Windows Server 20003 32-bit would be compatible with the Athlon 64 bit.
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If you encounter such limitations, maybe this can help? However, WinXP with SP2 already has the workaround implemented that allows programs to use up to 3GB if needed.

Maybe run a dual-boot setup with XP x64 and see if your rendering programs are compatible. x64 doesn't have a limitation like WinXP does (128GB vs 4GB).
 
I was reading about this earlier today on the Microsoft Knowledgebase.

The /PAE switch uses a more efficient memory address mechanism that allows up to 32GB of memory to be accessed from a 32 bit address.

The /3GB switch sets aside 3 GB for you and 1 GB for Windows if you have 4 GB, instead of the default 2/2 split.

The knowledgebase I was reading specifically stated that these bios switches were only available on the different versions of Windows Server 2003. However, I have just found another place that says they are also on XP SP2...but not until after I already got Windows Server 2003.

One thing that the articles are very unclear about is what happens if you put in more than 4 GB. It's clear that if you put in 4 GB, windows takes 2 GB. I'm not sure if this means that if you put in 32 GB using PAE, does this mean that windows takes 30GB? They do say that you can use PAE switch WITH the 3GB switch.

Finally, it's not clear what the 3GB switch actually does if you have more than 4 GB either. For instance, if you have 32 GB of ram, would applying the 3 GB switch give you 3 GB and give windows 29GB, or would it give you 31 GB and give windows 1 GB?

There is an additional switch you can use with the 3GB switch to specify a more precise split, but the number must be between 2 and 3.
 
Stuh505 said:
I was reading about this earlier today on the Microsoft Knowledgebase.

The /PAE switch uses a more efficient memory address mechanism that allows up to 32GB of memory to be accessed from a 32 bit address.

The /3GB switch sets aside 3 GB for you and 1 GB for Windows if you have 4 GB, instead of the default 2/2 split.

The knowledgebase I was reading specifically stated that these bios switches were only available on the different versions of Windows Server 2003. However, I have just found another place that says they are also on XP SP2...but not until after I already got Windows Server 2003.

One thing that the articles are very unclear about is what happens if you put in more than 4 GB. It's clear that if you put in 4 GB, windows takes 2 GB. I'm not sure if this means that if you put in 32 GB using PAE, does this mean that windows takes 30GB? They do say that you can use PAE switch WITH the 3GB switch.

Finally, it's not clear what the 3GB switch actually does if you have more than 4 GB either. For instance, if you have 32 GB of ram, would applying the 3 GB switch give you 3 GB and give windows 29GB, or would it give you 31 GB and give windows 1 GB?

There is an additional switch you can use with the 3GB switch to specify a more precise split, but the number must be between 2 and 3.
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Well I've got 5GB of ram and the OS's in question. I'd be tempted to try it if it weren't such a time consuming operation.

I didn't know about the 32GB PAE switch. I'd bet that it accesses the ram through virtual machines or something like that. I know a 32Bit CPU can't actually address more than 4GB of ram, and a 32Bit OS forces your processor to run in 32Bit mode. So I wonder how that is accomplished. Anyone have any idea on that?
 
I have been researching it in the meantime to come up with a complete document that has ALL the answers regarding the 3GC and PAE switch. I cannot yet explain all the minute implementation details, but it is not as great as I had originally thought. Using PAE, your computer switches to 3 level addressing (which may slow things down). It also assigns memory blocks to applications which cannot be shared so that application addresses only index into a portion of the complete ram...essentially the OS memorizes extra address information for each program. Furthermore this extra memory can only be utilized by programs that are specifically written to take advantage of it! Ok, so scratch PAE. The 3GB switch still looks like a good thing though if you have 4 or more GB.
 
Stuh505 said:
I have been researching it in the meantime to come up with a complete document that has ALL the answers regarding the 3GC and PAE switch. I cannot yet explain all the minute implementation details, but it is not as great as I had originally thought. Using PAE, your computer switches to 3 level addressing (which may slow things down). It also assigns memory blocks to applications which cannot be shared so that application addresses only index into a portion of the complete ram...essentially the OS memorizes extra address information for each program. Furthermore this extra memory can only be utilized by programs that are specifically written to take advantage of it! Ok, so scratch PAE. The 3GB switch still looks like a good thing though if you have 4 or more GB.
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Well that's good information. Definately not the same as running Windows XP x64 Edition. I didn't think it would be due to XP's limitations as a 32Bit OS.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
I know a 32Bit CPU can't actually address more than 4GB of ram, and a 32Bit OS forces your processor to run in 32Bit mode. So I wonder how that is accomplished. Anyone have any idea on that?
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PAE is 32-bit addresses with a 4-bit segment offset. So, this allows 36-bit adressing, or up to 64gb. The downside is that these are not standard 36-bit pointers that any process can use directly. One needs to waste instructions to set the 4-bit offset, and then all 32-bit accesses from that point on will be adressed relative to the 4-bit segment offset. For this reason, PAE is mostly an OS internal thing (give each application their own dedicated 4gb segment, etc), but user-space applications can be written to set the segment offset directly IIRC. But yeah, you are correct. Most processors out these days do have (limited) 36-bit addressing.
 
These Rosewill modules are actually made by PQI, and are in the needed 128x64 layout. They will work just fine in your new system at DDR400 speed and happen to be
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Well, I finally got the RAM. Never order from ChiefValue. I got everything else at least a week ago...they put me through hell, cancelled my order without refunding it, tried to double charge me too. Anyway...my Rosewill ram says 128x64 on it but it is definitely double sided!!!! At least, I assume that having 8 black squares on both sides means double sided...That sucks, it means I could have bought the same stuff for half the price...and this isn't even going to run at 400 Mhz.
 
Stuh505 said:
Well, I finally got the RAM. Never order from ChiefValue. I got everything else at least a week ago...they put me through hell, cancelled my order without refunding it, tried to double charge me too. Anyway...my Rosewill ram says 128x64 on it but it is definitely double sided!!!! At least, I assume that having 8 black squares on both sides means double sided...That sucks, it means I could have bought the same stuff for half the price...and this isn't even going to run at 400 Mhz.
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The modules are low density double sided. They will run just fine at 400MHz with a Revision E Athlon core(s).
 
Well, that's good to know.

Unfortunately there are some bigger problems...

1) The Quadro card does not have a monitor plug! At least, not the standard one...it has some plugs but they have many more pins. I guess I need to buy a new monitor now...but what kind of monitor is compatible?

So, I will be using my old graphics card until I figure that out.

But there's another problem. I boot up, set the default settings in the bios, verify that the proper boot order is set...but it won't start windows. It says might be due to a change of hardware (obviously). It detects the graphics card and some other stuff but fails before starting windows (does not display any windows logo). Won't start in safe mode either.

So, what do I try now? I am at the lab now to ask this question, I'll be back in a couple hours -- hopefully someone will have some things for me to try.

note: I'm using my old hard drive so it's already got windows installed
 
Stuh505 said:
Well, that's good to know.

Unfortunately there are some bigger problems...

1) The Quadro card does not have a monitor plug! At least, not the standard one...it has some plugs but they have many more pins. I guess I need to buy a new monitor now...but what kind of monitor is compatible?

So, I will be using my old graphics card until I figure that out.

2) But there's another problem. I boot up, set the default settings in the bios, verify that the proper boot order is set...but it won't start windows. It says might be due to a change of hardware (obviously). It detects the graphics card and some other stuff but fails before starting windows (does not display any windows logo). Won't start in safe mode either.

So, what do I try now? I am at the lab now to ask this question, I'll be back in a couple hours -- hopefully someone will have some things for me to try.

note: I'm using my old hard drive so it's already got windows installed
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1) Fear Naught! You need only get one of these nifty little suckers. (they're industry standard architecture, so even an ATI beand adapter will work with an nVidia card.)

2) Fear Naught Again! Boot to your Windows XP CD and choose the repair existing installation method. (If this doesn't work, you're gonna need to do a fresh install.)
 
You never fail to say something that doesn't brighten my day...

Is there any variability in those adapters? From the screenshot it doesnt exactly look like the correct fit...from my memory the quadro connection was wider and not as fat. I could be wrong though, because im not looking at it now.
 
Stuh505 said:
You never fail to say something that doesn't brighten my day...

Is there any variability in those adapters? From the screenshot it doesnt exactly look like the correct fit...from my memory the quadro connection was wider and not as fat. I could be wrong though, because im not looking at it now.
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There shouldn't be any variances. Does it look like this? (scroll to the bottom images)
 
I went home and checked it out. It does look like the proper type. From the website, it looks like the Dual Link DVI-I. I just got back from best buy and wal mart, neither of them carry it unfortunately.

I tried to do the repair thing with windows, but to do so requires me to give the administrator password. For some reason, it won't accept my admin password that I use in windows to log in...and I tried all the other passwords that I would normally use also. I remember having this problem in the past, too. I tried a default password of "admin" as well to no avail. Any idea why it won't accept my regular password?

Luckily I use a USB drive to store all my permanent files. I did have about 7 gigs of stuff on the desktop that I thought about transferring to the external drive before switching...but I thought to myself, "that's silly...there won't be any trouble" :/ Luckily I have a friend and I'm using his computer to transfer the files off the desktop.

Still, I'm hoping there might be some way around doing a reformat/reinstall...
 
Stuh505 said:
I went home and checked it out. It does look like the proper type. From the website, it looks like the Dual Link DVI-I. I just got back from best buy and wal mart, neither of them carry it unfortunately.

I tried to do the repair thing with windows, but to do so requires me to give the administrator password. For some reason, it won't accept my admin password that I use in windows to log in...and I tried all the other passwords that I would normally use also. I remember having this problem in the past, too. I tried a default password of "admin" as well to no avail. Any idea why it won't accept my regular password?

Luckily I use a USB drive to store all my permanent files. I did have about 7 gigs of stuff on the desktop that I thought about transferring to the external drive before switching...but I thought to myself, "that's silly...there won't be any trouble" :/ Luckily I have a friend and I'm using his computer to transfer the files off the desktop.

Still, I'm hoping there might be some way around doing a reformat/reinstall...
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Well you can crack the local admin password if you are so inclined. Just do a search on XP/NT/2K password crackers. I found one that's a bootable Linux CD that allows me to go in and edit the SAM files where the password is stored. That gets me around all the log in issues I've run across where it doesn't accept the password. When I boot off that CD and pull up the local accounts it usually tells me that Administrator is disabled or locked. I don't know why that happens periodically but I've noticed that it does.
 
After about 25 reboots I finally discovered that if I say I want to do a complete reinstall instead of a repair, then it brings me to a new window where it gives me the option to repair again, and THIS time I dont need to give a password to repair. Ridiculous. I repaired it. After repairing it would show the windows logo on startup, then crash. So I did a reformat and reinstall, and now I can get into windows...things are pretty much working (im on this computer now) but there is still a major problem, cant get the audio drivers to work (posted a thread on that in the audio section http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=956010). Im heading out to radio shack today and hopefully I can get a DVI-VGA adapter and see if that works!
 
Stuh505 said:
After about 25 reboots I finally discovered that if I say I want to do a complete reinstall instead of a repair, then it brings me to a new window where it gives me the option to repair again, and THIS time I dont need to give a password to repair. Ridiculous. I repaired it. After repairing it would show the windows logo on startup, then crash. So I did a reformat and reinstall, and now I can get into windows...things are pretty much working (im on this computer now) but there is still a major problem, cant get the audio drivers to work (posted a thread on that in the audio section http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=956010). Im heading out to radio shack today and hopefully I can get a DVI-VGA adapter and see if that works!
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You shouldn't have any trouble getting a DVI-VGA adapter. They are pretty common. Glad to hear your back in Windows. I don't know what to say about the audio driver, I'll check out the thread though.
 
Got the DVI adapter, installed the video card and the latest driver from nvidia and that is all working well.

However, after installing the video card, my system detects a lower amount of main memory!!!

Prior to the Quadro, it detected 3.801088 GB of RAM. Now it only detects 3.669484 GB of RAM. What the heck?
 
Stuh505 said:
Got the DVI adapter, installed the video card and the latest driver from nvidia and that is all working well.

However, after installing the video card, my system detects a lower amount of main memory!!!

Prior to the Quadro, it detected 3.801088 GB of RAM. Now it only detects 3.669484 GB of RAM. What the heck?
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That's quite normal for the system to set aside a chunk of memory for it's own resources like that. Differing hardware would likely make the system reserve differing amounts. Expect to only be able to access 3.5GB when you have 4x1GB installed.
 
Hmm...ok. That is a nicer though than my computer isnt using all my memory or i must have destroyed 300 MB of ram from static when I opened the case...

Ran all the dxdiag tests, went fine...tried doing some graphical stuff to test the card out. I do notice a speedup in Max and Guild Wars, although it's not quite as dramatic an increase from my old geforce as I was hoping.

Using ZBrush I notice tremendous increase in performance...but this is all due to the ram.

Any free benchmark suggesions?
 
DejaWiz said:
That's quite normal for the system to set aside a chunk of memory for it's own resources like that. Differing hardware would likely make the system reserve differing amounts. Expect to only be able to access 3.5GB when you have 4x1GB installed.
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The Tyan K8WE reserves 1.5GB for devices by default when 4GB is installed. However, you're right, your mileage will vary based on motherboard, and system configuration. A co-worker of mine has 4GB installed in his PC and his only provides 3.13GB of ram. In other cases I've seen it around 3.5GB.

With Windows XP Professional x64 Edition, I was able to get all 5.0GB to be available to Windows.
 
Something is really not right.

If I start up Americas army, I get a blue screen/freezeup/crash computer after about 10 seconds of having the program open, not even going into a game.

I have been using my computer for a couple hours and all of a sudden out of the blue I got a blue screen of death/crash computer. All I had open was email and text editors.

I swapped out my Quadro for the old GeForce...reset the defaults in my BIOS...but this ALSO crashes AA when I load it up. This card used to run AA fine. This makes me wonder if I can also just get random crashes for no reason with this card....

This is not good...if its not my graphics card what could it be..
 
Stuh505 said:
Something is really not right.

If I start up Americas army, I get a blue screen/freezeup/crash computer after about 10 seconds of having the program open, not even going into a game.

I have been using my computer for a couple hours and all of a sudden out of the blue I got a blue screen of death/crash computer. All I had open was email and text editors.

I swapped out my Quadro for the old GeForce...reset the defaults in my BIOS...but this ALSO crashes AA when I load it up. This card used to run AA fine. This makes me wonder if I can also just get random crashes for no reason with this card....

This is not good...if its not my graphics card what could it be..
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Power down, reseat all the memory modules, the video card, and the power connectors. Keep us posted.

If it's still a problem, then uninstall the video driver, reboot, run DriverCleaner or NFR in safe mode, reboot normally, cancel the new hardware found wizard, temporarily disable anti-virus scanner, reinstall the video driver, reboot, and give it a whirl.
 
I forgot to mention another problem.

You already know how I got the Fortissimo drivers working...well after switching the Quadro out to put the GeForce back in for temporary safety, I said that I also reset the BIOS again. When doing this, I didn't disable the Realtek97 thing. Windows automatically installed some multimedia audio device without giving me any options, and I could hear no sound. However, the Fortissimo drivers were still detected and running "properly". I should also note that my ram was back up to 3.8 so you were right, it was definitely just a different amount that is allocated by the quadro.

So, I uninstalled the audio driver...ran the sound card driver cleaning program...disabled realtek97 in the bios...restarted...installed the Fortissimo driver again. Windows then detected the correct Fortissimo drivers...my speakers did the little "pop" that they usually do when I install a driver or bootup...but still, I cant play sounds -- its not an issue of volume, because Winamp will not even show a timer bar when I tell it to play.

I will try all the things you said and get back to you.
 
Stuh505 said:
I forgot to mention another problem.

You already know how I got the Fortissimo drivers working...well after switching the Quadro out to put the GeForce back in for temporary safety, I said that I also reset the BIOS again. When doing this, I didn't disable the Realtek97 thing. Windows automatically installed some multimedia audio device without giving me any options, and I could hear no sound. However, the Fortissimo drivers were still detected and running "properly". I should also note that my ram was back up to 3.8 so you were right, it was definitely just a different amount that is allocated by the quadro.

So, I uninstalled the audio driver...ran the sound card driver cleaning program...disabled realtek97 in the bios...restarted...installed the Fortissimo driver again. Windows then detected the correct Fortissimo drivers...my speakers did the little "pop" that they usually do when I install a driver or bootup...but still, I cant play sounds -- its not an issue of volume, because Winamp will not even show a timer bar when I tell it to play.

I will try all the things you said and get back to you.
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Might I make another suggestion? You might not initially like the sounds of this one, but here goes:

Ditch the old Fortissimo II sound card and use the new onboard with the nVidia nForce driver. I'm almost willing to bet that the new onboard will perform as good as, if not better than, your sound card. Dolby surround, EAX 2, 7.1 capable.... I left my Audigy in the static bag when I built my new socket 939 system. I am rather impressed with how far along the integrated audio solutions have come.
 
My GeForce card and driver could run Americas Army (AA) on my old setup.

First I upgraded the motherboard / RAM / processor, and kept my Fortissimo and GeForce. I tried to load up AA and it crashed. Perhaps changing the motherboard caused the previous driver installs to be no longer valid.

I then switch to the Quadro and installed the quadro driver...AA crashed, later I had a crash for no reason.

I switched back to GeForce using the Quadro driver, AA crashed. I switched to the old GeForce driver, AA crashed.

From the very beginning, I have been getting this warning in my bootup:

optionrom5sb.jpg


edit: google searching deciphers what this actually says, I had to record it with a video and slow down the playback to get this still image...

WARNING: Have Option ROM can not be invoke (Vendor ID 10DEh, Device ID 00Dfh)

People in this thread are talking about it:
http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/1-vt61081.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Sounds like flashing the bios is in order but IVe never doen that before

Now...I know this really seems like a display driver issue...but I'm starting to think that perhaps it isn't. I mean, AA worked with my GeForce + geforce driver in the past...and since I made the switch, that hasn't worked. Also, something seems to be interfering with my sound drivers....because the sound drivers are installed, they can detect the speakers...but they cant use the speakers.

So maybe it's my BIOS, because something is giving this cryptic warning when I boot, or maybe it is one of the nForce drivers other than the display driver.

In the add/remove programs, there are several other nvidia drivers besides display:
- ethernet (seems to work fine)
- GART
- IDE
- nForce PCI System Management Driver

edit: as to your previous comment....maybe. the thing I like about my fortissimo is that I have not only an equalizer, but I can easily set it to 2/4 speakers, test them, and adjust the volume sent to each speaker..and I use these features a lot.
 
Stuh505 said:
So maybe it's my BIOS, because something is giving this cryptic warning when I boot, or maybe it is one of the nForce drivers other than the display driver.

In the add/remove programs, there are several other nvidia drivers besides display:
- ethernet (seems to work fine)
- GART
- IDE
- nForce PCI System Management Driver

edit: as to your previous comment....maybe. the thing I like about my fortissimo is that I have not only an equalizer, but I can easily set it to 2/4 speakers, test them, and adjust the volume sent to each speaker..and I use these features a lot.
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Flashing a video BIOS isn't that difficult. The hardest part will be to find a newer BIOS version than the one you have. If you can give me the full specs (make/model/etc) of your Quadro, I'll see what I can dig up.

Don't remove the Ethernet, GART, IDE, or PCI SMD. Very bad things could happen...

The nForce audio drivers have an equalizer as well. And you can set the output mode from 2 speakers on up to 7.1 as you wish. There are volume controls for separate speakers, as well (although I'm trying my damndest to remember if it's each speaker individually or each speaker set, such as front, rear, surround, center, etc).
 
I have the MSI LiveUpdate software installed which allowed me to flash the BIOS by following some relatively simple instructions. After flashing the BIOS to the most current version, the Option ROM warning message was still present. However, when I got into Windows, sound was working again. Also, AA did not crash when I tried to play it. This was still using my Fortissimo and GeForce.

So, I decided to see if things continue to work when I put the Quadro back in. I powered down, installed the Quadro, uninstalled the GeForce drivers, and restarted. I tried to run Driver Cleanr, but couldn't figure out how to use it...I had to choose a filter, clearly one of the nvidia ones, but they did not specify if they were going to be filtering display or what, and since ALL my chipset drivers are nvidia I didnt want to risk randomly trying them.

The nvidia filter options are:
* nForce chipset
* nVidia
* nVidia Stereo
* nVidia WDM

So, I skipped the Driver Cleaner...and just installed the newest Quadro driver. Restarted, my sound still worked. Tried to play AA, it crashed. Note that when I say AA crashed, I am not talking about the actual game...I am talking about the "video settings" window from the main menu of the game. I'm not changing any settings, I am just going to the window. Don't know why it has a problem with this particular window but it does.

So...to recap:

* Flashing the BIOS fixed the AA crash and fixed the sound
* Swapping to Quadro brought back the AA crash

This isn't helping me to isolate the problem!
 
Just a few minutes ago, I was using Max and increased the subdivison levels...my speakers made that "brrrrt" noise and crashed. I restarted, did the same thing in Max, no problem this time. I minimized Max, was typing in a forum, and the speakers suddenly do the noise again...but this time it recovers after about 2 seconds and doesn't crash.

It's possible that there is some internal damage to the graphics card, because I did get a refurbished one. However, this wouldn't explain why I would be having the instability problems when using the other card..unless it's a driver instability that put something wierd in the registry. What do you think about all this?
 
Stuh505 said:
Just a few minutes ago, I was using Max and increased the subdivison levels...my speakers made that "brrrrt" noise and crashed. I restarted, did the same thing in Max, no problem this time. I minimized Max, was typing in a forum, and the speakers suddenly do the noise again...but this time it recovers after about 2 seconds and doesn't crash.

It's possible that there is some internal damage to the graphics card, because I did get a refurbished one. However, this wouldn't explain why I would be having the instability problems when using the other card..unless it's a driver instability that put something wierd in the registry. What do you think about all this?
Click to expand...

Pull one card out and test them individually. Wouldn't have anything to do with the registry, but a failing video card could definately cause the system to crash or hang.
 
I pulled the video card and put the other one in. I didn't even try to do anything graphical, I've simply been writing documents in word. After a couple hours of writing, everything suddenly froze again. This marks the third time that this unpromoted freeze has occurred, and it's happened with both video cards.

Now, I know that doing certain graphical things can trigger the problem....but now I have proven that independent of my card, it can happen without my triggering it. I think that this rules out of the possibility of it being a driver problem, because if my drivers were incompatible or something then it would cause the problem immediately when I did a certain unsupported thing...not out of the blue when Im typing in Word and have nothing else open.

So, I think it must be a hardware problem...the only possibilities are RAM, CPU, or Motherboard. The memory gets tested on bootup and never has any problems, and I have utilized all 4 GB of it without problems, so I think that leaves the problem being with the CPU or Motherboard. I've been monitoring the CPU temperature, it's been constant around 40 degrees C, system temp 33 deg C...and I've also been monitoring the draw from my power supply which has yet to exceed 250 watts...

Both the CPU and motherboard were purchased new, I think that it's more likely a problem with the motherboard.
 
Open task manager and let it run, and see (if it crashes) what task manager looks like. There could be too much memory allocated or something, or a very high priority process taking over. Also, run memtest to make sure that the memory is working properly.

 
Note: long post, but worth the read...

The memory has been tested, it's fine. It's not an issue of too many processes...it happens after the computer has been simply on for a certain period of time, most of the time I have had nothing more than Word open.

Last night, I did a couple more tests.

1) I disabled my graphics card, but left it in. This made the system stable to run for a long period of time, but I couldn't do the AA test without a graphics card.

2) I realized that I had to make sure that it wasn't a residual driver file problem...and since I couldn't isolate the nvidia graphics driver from the nforce drivers, I simply uninstalled ALL nvidia drivers. Then, I ran driver cleaner to get rid of anything having to do with nvidia. Then, I ran Nasty File Remover to get rid of anything nvidia...and then I went into the registry and deleted any keys having to do with nvidia display.

I reinstalled my Quadro and Quadro drivers...left the other nvidia drivers out...and I was able to play AA without a crash, thought it was fixed, but after being on for about an hour it went down again.

So...I knew that it was for sure, a hardware issue. I know that it's not a graphics card issue, because it happens with both graphics cards one of which I know is good...however, this makes it extremely strange because if I don't use the graphics card, there is no problem.

After thinking about this for some time, I have concluded that it must be an issue with the motherboard. The graphics card plugs into the motherboard, and somehow the motherboard is running into problems only when I am using a graphics card.

I removed my motherboard, and realized that the motherboard screw sockets in my case were not configured perfectly for my motherboard. When installing, I did not remember that these screws could be adjusted to different positions. I noticed that there were 2 extra screws located on the botherboard underneath the position of the graphics card.

Now, the bottom of the motherboard is covered in a thin nonconductive black film. My hypothesis is that this area of the motherboard does not normally have current unless I am running a graphics card. This heats up the area of the board, slightly melting the nonconductive film, and causing the screw sockets to contact with the motherboard and short circuit it, making everything freeze. I fixed the screw hole issue, so now there's nothing to do but wait and see if I am right!!!
 
wow, lots of comp problems for you.

Could be heat issue if things are crashing in games.

Check out that.

crazy about the non conductive black film, never seen it first hand in my life, but whatever. Yeah shorts suck...Make sure you have none.
 
I've had problems solved by running the system for a short time caseless. If you take it all out and it works there, then it's something relating to grounding for sure. If that doesn't fix it, then try something else, it's probably not that. But a grounding problem could still exist, and it's easier to work on machines in the raw, so I usually just leave the whole thing open until everything's fixed.

 
Hehe, yeah...my case is all open right now. I've been inside the case more than I've been in my bed lately, memorized the locations of every single pin connection...at least I've learned a lot from this whole experience.

To follow up...after my previous experiment, an hour later it crashed. I swapped in my old motherboard and everything seems to be working fine now, it's been running for a few hours without a crash...so I went ahead and reinstalled my old mobo drivers and reinstalled the sound driver.

I really don't ever want to see an MSI product again, I hope that I can get a full refund on this so I can switch to ASUS.
 
Stuh505 said:
Hehe, yeah...my case is all open right now. I've been inside the case more than I've been in my bed lately, memorized the locations of every single pin connection...at least I've learned a lot from this whole experience.

To follow up...after my previous experiment, an hour later it crashed. I swapped in my old motherboard and everything seems to be working fine now, it's been running for a few hours without a crash...so I went ahead and reinstalled my old mobo drivers and reinstalled the sound driver.

I really don't ever want to see an MSI product again, I hope that I can get a full refund on this so I can switch to ASUS.
Click to expand...
Damn, that sucks you gotta RMA your new mobo. BTW, I had no luck finding a bios image for the Quadro, but I suppose it's not needed now since you determined it wasn't the problem afterall. Hope things get ironed out for you soon, bud.
 
It does suck, but at least the motherboard only cost about $100 and I can RMA it to newegg or MSI...whereas the GPU is worth $1500 and is non-returnable!
 
Stuh505 said:
It does suck, but at least the motherboard only cost about $100 and I can RMA it to newegg or MSI...whereas the GPU is worth $1500 and is non-returnable!
Click to expand...

This is definately true. RMA'ing does suck though. I just had to RMA one of my Raptors. It died. It sucked very much. Advance replacement rocks, if you've got enough room on your credit card for it.
 
Ok, it's about 2 months later now...finally got my RMA's MSI board back, and was able to install my RAM and CPU finally. I am glad that they did actually give me a new motherboard.

Just like last time, Windows would crash using the new motherboard, so I did the reformat and now it works.

All my drivers seem to be working this time around...for the mobo, sound, video, etc.

But now I've got another little "present" from Microsoft...once again, cannot activate Windows. Some of you remember the long thread that I posted when I ran into trouble with this in the past. Last time, it simply could not activate due to hardware inconsistencies...this time it just tells me that I have activated too many times.

Funny how that happens when your software sucks so much that I have to reformat once a month, isn't it Microsoft?

Ugh...anyone want to take bids on how many hours I will be talking to customer service this time around?

Hint: last time it was about 15
 
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