BSN flamebait thread, ATI vs Nvidia (Warning: Fanbios at war)

lol @ 64TMUs = abandoning the gamer.....classic :)

We get most of those questions from regular forum dwellers on a daily basis though.
 
I think the author of this article is a bit too optimistic to be honest:

"We've forwarded the link to nVidia and expect to get an answer during this week."

I think it takes a PR department probably more than week to determine exactly how to answer these questions. Aka to deliver the delicate news and to determine how to answer those questions. If the PR team is not so 'technical' it might take a fair bit of discussion and conversation with the engineering teams/production teams. In that event, nVidia might want to keep those engineers working on Fermi/producing a workable product than answering questions from the AMD community.

I think there's a few questions where there is no good answer except 'were a giant corporation with goals involving market share and not killing other product line's sales' such as the artifically limiting DP performance to 25%. Its great from an investor standpoint but not a consumer standpoint and ultimately its consumers who buy your products.
 
AMD: NV’s distributed PolyMorph Engine structure would imply that some of those functions are performed by the shaders. Will their tessellation performance scales with shader load and degrades when the shaders are busy with other tasks?
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That would be an answer I am interested in seeing.
 
or NVIDIA just ignores it completely :)

Some of them are really silly.

AMD: Why do NV drivers have to be 100MB in size? Users complain that it takes forever to download.
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yes and ATI your drives at almost 70MB download so much faster!

dont want to download them use the CD that came with your card.
 
necrophile said:
That would be an answer I am interested in seeing.
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Considering the question is invalid I wouldn't expect one soon. Distributing the Polymorph engines doesn't "imply" anything about shader workload. What it implies is that geometry data remains local to the SM for faster access as opposed to AMD's approach where they have to shuttle data far across the chip to the FF units and back again to the shaders. It's FUD at its finest :)
 
AMD: Why do 48% of INQ readers think GF100 will be too hot, power hungry and expensive?
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????? The INQ? A PC poll from the inquirer? I mean I'm not dissing the inquirer but that just seems like the oddest magazine to get a tech poll from.
 
These questions aren't from AMD by the way. They are from their "Competitive Analysis Team". It's basically just regular guys, many of whom are regular forum dwellers who interact with the community and report back to AMD.
 
Why would they answer that??? There are a couple of decent points and fair questions, but even those are worded in a way to make answering them problematic. For example:
"Why are they artificially limiting the double precision performance of GeForce products to 1/4 of full capacity and make gamers pay for it in silicon and in power consumed?"
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fair question but, then in the next breath say
"Why aren’t gamers allowed to use all the performance they’re paying for?"
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Now the tone is adversarial. And not as easily answered with out looking greedy.
"Why does NV keep at proprietary standards when open standards exist?"
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again, fair question ruined by the very next sentence
"Typically companies do this when they have poor products to hide."
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adversarial again, I wouldn't answer them on the grounds that they are acting like cocks.

Most of the rest is either similar to the above examples or are things that AMD would not disclose til they were ready to either. I am not a fan of Nv, but most of those questions are just plain not something anyone would answer in that situation with the questions worded and presented in that manner. No flames, I fail.......:p

edit: Note that I said fair question, and not good or intelligent question...
 
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Valset said:
and of all the issues to bash them about. there is plenty to be said but size and release date?
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No, there is nothing to be said coming from AMD. I owned a 4870x2 and trust me they have enough driver issues of their own to worry about.
 
lol, BSN articles are always a lot of fluff and little content, this is a classic example of an article for the sake of an article, nothign mroe than getting more hits to their site.

the inq ran a similar non story last week, i think its the idea that every now and then you have to mention the latest controversial piece of AMD or Nvidia where readers will click on it hoping for some new information
 
trinibwoy said:
Considering the question is invalid I wouldn't expect one soon. Distributing the Polymorph engines doesn't "imply" anything about shader workload. What it implies is that geometry data remains local to the SM for faster access as opposed to AMD's approach where they have to shuttle data far across the chip to the FF units and back again to the shaders. It's FUD at its finest :)
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That remains to be seen. I would like to hear it straight from the horses mouth.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
No, there is nothing to be said coming from AMD. I owned a 4870x2 and trust me they have enough driver issues of their own to worry about.
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both of them do, I was pointing out that of all the issues with nvidia drivers they picked out what I consider two non issues. doubly asinine.
 
necrophile said:
That remains to be seen. I would like to hear it straight from the horses mouth.
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Hmmmm I don't think any company will entertain arbitrary uninformed questions about their architecture. If there was some technical reasoning behind the question maybe, but there isn't.
 
GORANKAR said:
Why would they answer that??? There are a couple of decent points and fair questions, but even those are worded in a way to make answering them problematic. For example:
fair question but, then in the next breath say Now the tone is adversarial. And not as easily answered with out looking greedy.
again, fair question ruined by the very next sentence adversarial again, I wouldn't answer them on the grounds that they are acting like cocks.

Most of the rest is either similar to the above examples or are things that AMD would not disclose til they were ready to either. I am not a fan of Nv, but most of those questions are just plain not something anyone would answer in that situation with the questions worded and presented in that manner. No flames, I fail.......:p

edit: Note that I said fair question, and not good or intelligent question...
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this is why I used the term flame bait. there is more then enough merit to warrant the discussion but it done in such a fashion as to be deliberately inflammatory
 
necrophile said:
And how do you know that?
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Did we not read the same thing?

"NV’s distributed PolyMorph Engine structure would imply that some of those functions are performed by the shaders."

Distributing geometry processing doesn't imply that more work is done by the shaders. That's like saying having dedicated texture units per SM implies that some texturing functions are done by the shaders. If you have a technical reason for that implication I'd love to hear it especially since the actual reasons for distributing geometry processing have already been explained in the whitepaper, forum threads and numerous articles on the subject.
 
trinibwoy said:
These questions aren't from AMD by the way. They are from their "Competitive Analysis Team". It's basically just regular guys, many of whom are regular forum dwellers who interact with the community and report back to AMD.
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Good freaking lord--such a thing actually exists, AND is publicly aknowledged? So, the questions aren't from AMD, just from their personal stable of community spies, other names for which could be "Shill Squad," or "FUD Patrol." Now I feel much better. And I'm sure they receive no compensation for their efforts.
 
Commander Suzdal said:
Good freaking lord--such a thing actually exists, AND is publicly aknowledged? So, the questions aren't from AMD, just from their personal stable of community spies, other names for which could be "Shill Squad," or "FUD Patrol." Now I feel much better. And I'm sure they receive no compensation for their efforts.
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Yes, it's publicly acknowledged but it's no big deal cause AMD are the good guys. On the other hand members of Nvidia's focus group were publicly humiliated, mocked, vilified, banished and scorned a few years ago. I don't think they're compensated in any material way and some of them are genuine beta testers but there obviously are those whose primary purpose is to spread FUD :)

Sikkyu said:
+1 for trolls
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Based on your post history I'm assuming you're referring to me here? In which case I take you really believe that "AMD Community from Rage3D and Beyond3D" refers to actual AMD employees who are so insipid as to ask the uneducated questions posted at BSN?
 
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trinibwoy said:
Based on your post history I'm assuming you're referring to me here? In which case I take you really believe that "AMD Community from Rage3D and Beyond3D" refers to actual AMD employees who are so insipid as to ask the uneducated questions posted at BSN?
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actually no, it was a general statement directed at bsn and trolls all over.

i didnt actualy read most of this thread. maybe some of the first few posts.

nothing in this thread besides e-peens

edit i would like to add that i read the bsn (well some of it) and i know AMD refers to AMD fanbois, and BSN refers to morons.
 
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trinibwoy said:
Yes, it's publicly acknowledged but it's no big deal cause AMD are the good guys. On the other hand members of Nvidia's focus group were publicly humiliated, mocked, vilified, banished and scorned a few years ago. I don't think they're compensated in any material way and some of them are genuine beta testers but there obviously are those whose primary purpose is to spread FUD :)
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I figured nVidia must have some such thing as well once you mentioned it, I missed the "fall from grace" though. Was it over the FX 5000 fiasco, or did they pull something worse?

Again, not shocked that both companies would want a team of enthusiasts helping them to gather intelligence, just that a company would openly use such a group in this way. ;)
 
Sikkyu said:
actually no, it was a general statement directed at bsn and trolls all over.
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Gotcha.

Commander Suzdal said:
I figured nVidia must have some such thing as well once you mentioned it, I missed the "fall from grace" though. Was it over the FX 5000 fiasco, or did they pull something worse?

Again, not shocked that both companies would want a team of enthusiasts helping them to gather intelligence, just that a company would openly use such a group in this way. ;)
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No, the focus group itself didn't do anything in particular to initiate the meltdown. It's just that people were pissed off that folks who they previously thought were offering independent opinions were in fact linked to a company in some way. But in the end it just turned into a witch-hunt orchestrated by the other side with everyone in sight being accused of being an Nvidia shill of some sort. It was quite amusing actually :)
 
SixtyWattMan said:
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/new...it-paints-picture-of-buggy-nvidia-drivers.ars

lol Sorry but I was nvidia when that shit was going on. Turned me off big time. So many blue screens. ATI hasn't been flawless, but much much better.
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Whats funy is, I wonder how many of those Nvidia induced BSODs in Vista were not in fact actually caused by Creative crapware they call drivers. I had vista shortly after launch and experienced much of the same problem alot of other did. Funny thing is, I removed the creatove card and my problems stopped. 2m+ with a CL sound card, 40+ BSODs, 20m+ without and not a single BSOD the entire time after that. That includes launch drivers.
 
I had no driver problems with Vista on both an 8800GTX and a 260GTX....but I also have no ATI driver problems on my rigs........I guess I am one of the lucky ones who year after year, has no problems with either company's drivers.
 
fdiaz78 said:
I have YET to experience any issues with Nvidia drivers. Great support compared to ATI.
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count yourself lucky then. ATI has plenty of issues but Nvidia has just as many if not more (if you count hardware issues) My personal bane was the EDID bug that they STILL claim is the monitors fault (despite ATI, matrox, VIA, and intel all working fine with it. hell even my old 8800GTX worked fine with it, just not the GT200 series)

hunt around and you will have no issue finding faults with both. just pick your poison.
 
necrophile said:
Xman245, are you actually being serious?
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Yes, I'm being very serious. CL drivers can and will cause the Nvidia drivers to BSOD Vista. Remove the CL device, the drivers no longer load and Nvidia drivers stop BSODing.
 
So where is your proof of this?

What about those who don't use creative products, can you show that they had no BSOD?
 
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