Broadwell CPUs will be soldered to mobos?

Windreaper

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Hey, it's not all bad. At least you will be able to buy lots of "broken" mobos for almost nothing and bake them. BGA ftw.
 

pxc

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It's certainly possible for mobiles, especially if the form factors move towards real ultrabook and macbook air styles. Although to cover all price points and make base skus more flexible, it's pretty unlikely to be universal.

PC Watch is simply repeating a rumor from one anonymous source, and PC Watch doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to that. xbit is reading a lot more into the source article than it states (i.e. making up stuff that wasn't stated).

IOW, it's unlikely, particularly based on a click bait article and the impracticality of the idea on desktops and lower cost laptops.
 

Josephson_Junction

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Well one thing I see would be that motherboard manufacturers would have to buy a CPU for every motherboard they make. That means buying a lot more CPU's than normal because they don't sell all the boards they make and ship. So that's a lot more CPU's sold by Intel. So every motherboard sitting on Newegg or Tiger Direct or Directron's shelves would have an Intel CPU bought and paid for sitting there until somebody buys the motherboard.
I understand your point, but this all just seems implausible to me. I seriously doubt motherboard manufacturers, free trade associations, and several particular governments would take it lightly.
 

DejaWiz

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As a field tech that regularly replaces CPUs in both laptops and desktops, I really hope this isn't true. This would become a nightmare on all sorts of levels.
 

ShuttleLuv

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Sorry but the fondest memories of computers I have are being taken away. The more they downsize and reduce the less we can do with our tweaking and setting up. Makes us look pretty insignificant.
 

pxc

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I hear "gullible" isn't in the dictionary.

Seriously people, are you convinced by such a flimsy rumor which makes absolutely zero sense to begin with?
 

colinstu

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the internet adapter gets hot and screws with the SSD... ;)

I have an Intel 6205 in my X220 and the past few months it's turned into the flakiest thing ever. Will randomly not show up as a device and lose connection to networks etc. Googling around... lots of other people have similar issues. That's even after updating to the most recent drivers...
 

pelo

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the internet adapter gets hot and screws with the SSD... ;)

I have an Intel 6205 in my X220 and the past few months it's turned into the flakiest thing ever. Will randomly not show up as a device and lose connection to networks etc. Googling around... lots of other people have similar issues. That's even after updating to the most recent drivers...
I have the exact same setup but I haven't experienced any problems at all.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...N-6205-wifi-card-/140659884571#ht_2916wt_1111 <~~ that card.

It could just be a bad card, perhaps? That Realtek garbo that came with my x220 was piss poor as far as connection and power consumption both. The Centrino card has worked wonders in improving upon signal and battery life (under linux).

It doesn't surprise me that the NUC overheated, though. Those little cards can get quite hot. I haven't done any large file transfers over WiFi yet but I can certainly see how it could potentially cause issues
 

colinstu

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I have the exact same setup but I haven't experienced any problems at all.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thin...N-6205-wifi-card-/140659884571#ht_2916wt_1111 <~~ that card.

It could just be a bad card, perhaps? That Realtek garbo that came with my x220 was piss poor as far as connection and power consumption both. The Centrino card has worked wonders in improving upon signal and battery life (under linux).

It doesn't surprise me that the NUC overheated, though. Those little cards can get quite hot. I haven't done any large file transfers over WiFi yet but I can certainly see how it could potentially cause issues
I bought the Intel right away because I knew the thinkpad-branded adapter would be garbage. The intel one had ZERO problems up until a year of use has gone by... now it's gotten worse and worse. Maybe one drop out every week... now it's like within 15min of booting the laptop or sometimes several hours. I'll live with it for now... don't feel like paying money for something that shouldn't've broke. Only when it really frustrates me will I try buying a new one to check if that fixes it.
 

pelo

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I bought the Intel right away because I knew the thinkpad-branded adapter would be garbage. The intel one had ZERO problems up until a year of use has gone by... now it's gotten worse and worse. Maybe one drop out every week... now it's like within 15min of booting the laptop or sometimes several hours. I'll live with it for now... don't feel like paying money for something that shouldn't've broke. Only when it really frustrates me will I try buying a new one to check if that fixes it.
The heat really makes it worse. In the X-series laptops the mSATA card sits right next to the WiFi as well which compounds the problem. In the NUC it looks like they took the same approach and stuck the cards right next to each other - or on top of each other, rather.

Thankfully it's pretty cheap and prying apart the lappy is easy too. It's difficult when the components are within mere millimeters of each other in a thin design. These are issues you consider when making a desktop and we know all too well, but imagine sticking all of those components into a small form factor, be it a laptop or Intel's new NUC, you're bound to run into some heat issues.
 

defaultluser

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You people are all idiots. Read the comments below the story:


EDIT: This article is mistranslated.

This article says:

-- Intel will not provide new products for Desktop and non-BGA laptop segments in Broadwell era
-- Instead, they will provide higher clocked Haswell for those segments in 2014
-- Broadwell is "more than tick", and it will include some technologies that were previously planned for Skylake
-- This is because Intel needs to be more competitive in the tablet market, and this may mean the end of Tick-Tock strategy
-- It mentions nothing about Skylake and later or if they will be LGA or not for the desktop


This means we won't see *Broadwell* on the desktop, ONLY on soldered notebooks and tablets.

So, no doom-and-gloom about lack of interchangeable sockets on the desktop. Instead, Haswell will simply have a longer lifetime for enthusiasts (makes sense as Broadwell is still mostly a die shrink, and thus targeted at portables). There are no announced or rumored plans for Skylake to skip the desktop.
 

pxc

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edit: n/m

The article I posted and removed is complete gibberish, like the other rumors. What happened is that Ian Yang (President of Intel China), explained how Haswell and later chips are SoC, as opposed to the current models which are "the last of their kind".

Still no confirmation at all that Intel is moving to soldering desktop processors on motherboards.
 
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MrGuvernment

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I'll believe it when it starts happening. Otherwise, happy thanksgiving everyone?
Intel said they would stop overclocking on certain processors... and they pretty much did on none K variants... at least nothing worth it..


I'm not thrilled about the news, but I'm not overly concerned either. I don't usually upgrade my CPU without going to a new platform anyway. I do understand not everyones upgrade trend matches my own, so I can certainly see how this would be a bummer if it ends up being true sooner rather than later.

So i go out and buy an i3 system and say in 3-4 months start to use my rig more.. now i have to sell mobo/cpu just to upgrade to an i5?

This^
and
Happy birthday, Yankees!
See above about intel locking out overclocking....

We are a minority.. period and we dont make intel any money compared to OEM or avg joe blow.
 

MrGuvernment

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I hear "gullible" isn't in the dictionary.

Seriously people, are you convinced by such a flimsy rumor which makes absolutely zero sense to begin with?
It makes plenty of sense, it cuts costs, pushes intel's products, cpu and motherboard into the market more, forces people to spend more to upgrade..

Works for Apple... why not intel?
 

colinstu

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It makes plenty of sense, it cuts costs, pushes intel's products, cpu and motherboard into the market more, forces people to spend more to upgrade..

Works for Apple... why not intel?
How does this save money for Intel? BGA or LGA chips... they're both the same for intel basically... (package... one with contact pads... other with balls). It might save mobo makers some money as they don't need to bother with a socket.
 

pelo

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How does this save money for Intel? BGA or LGA chips... they're both the same for intel basically... (package... one with contact pads... other with balls). It might save mobo makers some money as they don't need to bother with a socket.
They get more money by selling more chipsets. If somebody wants an upgrade then they've got no choice buy to buy both a motherboard and a CPU, meaning Intel makes money on the chipset and CPU and also reduces overhead by supplying only 1 type of CPU (BGA) throughout it's entire consumer lineup. The motherboard makers would likely have to increase costs as well, because I highly doubt we'll be seeing 2-3 year warranties unless Intel decides to drop their warranty on their CPUs and have it go through the motherboard manufacturers.

It's just bad all around for the enthusiast if this were true. For true SoCs this is common practice, but then again they also sell you the entire product rather than just the motherboard and SoC. It wouldn't surprise me to see soldered RAM and tiny PCBs a couple of years down the line. The enthusiast and DIY PC builder be damned if there's a way to cut costs.
 

Pieter3dnow

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Today semiaccurate is posting the same:

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/26/intel-kills-off-the-desktop-pcs-go-with-it/

Normally, you would expect Intel to tell the companies that are affected, the Asuses, Gigabytes, MSIs, and Asrock
, well ahead of time. This time Intel didn&#8217;t, and that should tell you a great deal about their intentions. At least a few key PC players found out from SemiAccurate a few months ago, and they were rather incredulous about the news. This state of mind has probably changed to a state a bit past peeved by now, their entire business is about to be gutted. Intel didn&#8217;t just do a bad job of messaging this one, they didn&#8217;t do any job of it.
 

RamonGTP

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They get more money by selling more chipsets. If somebody wants an upgrade then they've got no choice buy to buy both a motherboard and a CPU, meaning Intel makes money on the chipset and CPU and also reduces overhead by supplying only 1 type of CPU (BGA) throughout it's entire consumer lineup. The motherboard makers would likely have to increase costs as well, because I highly doubt we'll be seeing 2-3 year warranties unless Intel decides to drop their warranty on their CPUs and have it go through the motherboard manufacturers.

It's just bad all around for the enthusiast if this were true. For true SoCs this is common practice, but then again they also sell you the entire product rather than just the motherboard and SoC. It wouldn't surprise me to see soldered RAM and tiny PCBs a couple of years down the line. The enthusiast and DIY PC builder be damned if there's a way to cut costs.
I don't think it will make them more money in the sense of selling more chipsets. The amount of people who upgrade processor only is very small. Now add to that a more expensive upgrade option and a portion of that already small number will undoubtedly hold off on any upgrade at all, which equates to a loss for intel. Combined with the remaining that do upgrade and you're likely at a wash.
 

colinstu

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I don't think it will make them more money in the sense of selling more chipsets. The amount of people who upgrade processor only is very small. Now add to that a more expensive upgrade option and a portion of that already small number will undoubtedly hold off on any upgrade at all, which equates to a loss for intel. Combined with the remaining that do upgrade and you're likely at a wash.
Plus. people who upgrade usually sell their processor to someone... intel sees none of that money from a person who was looking to buy that used CPU.

Dimes holding up dollars... it doesn't make a difference for Intel.

It sounds like intel will be retaining the X58/X79 kind of market... which is fine in my opinion (plus these are used in workstation / server markets too). They might cheapen it just a little to entice the 2500K-like crew. Other then that, you're not overclocking non-K 1155 chips (or super crazy on buying slow ones and upgrading)... and there aren't many -K series chips for that platform in the first place.

As terrible as these rumors are... I'm not worried. Just how the cookie crumbles.
 

thedocta45

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It makes plenty of sense, it cuts costs, pushes intel's products, cpu and motherboard into the market more, forces people to spend more to upgrade..

Works for Apple... why not intel?
It makes sense for certain market segments, OEMs, and laptops.
It would make sense to market 3 tiers for desktop CPUs and 3 tiers for laptops.

Outside of that Intel would be foolish to require a cpu soldered to the mobo.
I don't know the sales figures but I would imagine they would lose more than they would gain, and push people over the the AMD side of things.

It works for Apple because their entire market segment is OEM, also Apple is not a manufacture they are a vendor if anything.

It would probably work fine for any OEM if all they sold was laptops and basic desktops.
 

buttons

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I am not surprized, im not really worried either. Computers are so powerful now, people dont need to upgrade like they use to. I am willing to bet with the popularity of tablets / smartphones. People with AMD thubans, phenom II , intel I7-920/ I5, etc wont need to upgrade for a long long time.

The trend I see -- average joe is dumping the desktop in favor of laptops, tablets, smartphones, etc. Shoot, you can buy a $50 android device running 4.0 the size of a wireless usb stick that does 99% of what the average user needs to do. Plug it into a tv with a mouse/keyboard
 

quiktake

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Yeah, even a 20% improvement in CPU power doesn't really translate to real world usage other than encoding.
 

evilsofa

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First Petraeus, now BGA... this Broadwell really needs to stop messing around with balls.
 

Pieter3dnow

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Well, that changes everything!

So... I hear Charlie said that AMD is killing off all its big cores, used by desktops and servers. Charlie said so! :themoreyouknow:

:rolleyes:

Come 2014 we'll get the usual "something changed" out of him instead of admitting he was wrong.
You mean that people at AMD management aren't capable of such harsh decisions ?
Or you didn't notice the waves of people let go from AMD?

I wouldn't put it past current management to just go for FM2 and forget about AM3+ purely from a sales perspective.

Charlie referred (Intel story)to some other sources this time but then again I don't expect you to know how those links work PXC :)
 

crzykid71

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Apparently intel sees enthusiasts and regular desktop users/gamers as a niche market that doesn't deserve as much attention as the bigger money maker: mobile devices, tablets etc.. I'm sure hardware as we know it will be very different 10 - 15 years from now. My concern is when LGA is gone someday; a lack of interchangeable parts in the future will drive up prices as you have to manufacture quality units keeping in mind to have little to no bad batches of soldered on crap & a smaller selection to choose from, pick A, B, or C
 

MrGuvernment

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Well if anything then Asus and other will just make more mobo's for the Xeon line and push us over to those.

I do agree in that i can see this happening more on OEM and mid to low level parts, not so much the high end and like mentioned overclocking and how they left the K series open, for a premium.

Apparently intel sees enthusiasts and regular desktop users/gamers as a niche market that doesn't deserve as much attention as the bigger money maker:
They always have and we always will be a niche market that contributes very little to Intel's bottom line vs OEM market.
 

Faethon

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Intel would never do that. Intel would never try to abuse its dominant position now that AMD is lagging behind, to try to hold hostages all motherboard manufacturers and force enthusiasts as well as ordinary users to change also their motherboard if they want a new CPU. It's just not in Intel's style.

I soon expect a statement from Intel negating such rumours as malevolent.

Average Joe coming to forum: "Hello, i need help upgrading my 4 year old Intel computer".
Reply: "Sorry Joe, your CPU is soldered onto your motherboard, you may as well buy a new one cpu+mobo combo."

Nah, no way Intel would screw average Joe...

What would be next? Soldering the RAM DIMMs onto the motherboard?
 
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PhatalOne

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What would be next? Soldering the RAM DIMMs onto the motherboard?
I wouldn't give them any ideas. They can introduce something with a silly code name to a bunch of hoopla and the public would buy it. It wouldn't even surprise me if they named it something stupid like the UltraDesk(top).
 

DejaWiz

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I think what Charlie has caught wind of and is overexaggerating on is the embedded CPU options that Intel offers. It's been knowledge to all of us that Haswell will be LGA1150, and no doubts by me that there will be embedded options for Haswell just like pretty much every Intel CPU iteration.
 
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