Brace yourself for ray tracing in new games being AMD or Nvidia exclusive

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Revenant_Knight

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https://www.pcgamer.com/amp/ray-tracing-amd-nvidia-exclusivity/

Isn't this a move that should be criticized? Imagine if it had been Nvidia the one who had done this.


This is click bait yellow journalism that belongs on the backwater of the internet and not on a once respectable magazine's site. 100% speculation.

""Ray tracing using NVIDIA GPUs will come with a future update," the developer's patch notes say." - PC Gamer Article

Done.

It would be really, really, really dumb for any developer to do what's being alleged on the PC side. AMD has maybe 50,000 GPUs world wide that currently support ray tracing. Nvidia has millions. Additionally, if it support ray tracing via Direct X 12, Nvidia will support it.
 

Ready4Dis

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This article explains alot. For people that say hey AMD should perform the same and it should just work and doesn't need any optimizations because its just dxr? I want the same people to come out now and explain this lol. It does require optimizations I don't care what anyone says. Yes card may run dxr based ray tracing but its not going to really run it best if its not optimized for hardware. AMD going in to the future will have a leg up though because eco system. Consoles being RDNA 2 and desktops being RDNA 2, if game supports ray tracing on consoles its likely to run well on AMD hardware. Now I do believe Nvidia has more RT horsepower but it won't be as bad as it looks on some older games running older dxr and not fully optimized for rdna.
Sure, I'll explain. This was written on PS5, which doesn't user dxr... That would be xbox. Bam, conspiracy theory debunked, your welcome. While there may be some optimizing, it's not enough that they won't do it (they already said it would be released). I always said things that were written for dxr would work on AMD hardware, although maybe not optimal. The same can be said when reversed, although in this case it may be that it was developed on ps5 and had to use and extensions due to RT not being finalized in vulkan. This is a huge nothing from them looks of it, but I would appreciate if they gave a bit more details on why the delay outside of what we can speculate.
 

Mega6

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Ok the thread article appears to be a clickbait nothingburger.

NVIDIA on Ray Tracing Support and Exclusive Technologies

Will DXR games run on AMD GPUs?

– DirectX Ray Tracing is an API approved by Microsoft for implementation by any hardware vendor. Games created using DXR should run on any DXR-compatible GPU. NVIDIA cannot talk about plans of other manufacturers to support DXR.

NVIDIA RTX supported games don’t use ‘proprietary’ tech

Nvidia’s Brian Burke explained that there are just three games on the market that aren’t using Microsoft’s DXR technology – Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood and JX3. These three games use an Nvidia ray-tracing extension for the Vulkan API, simply as a workaround while the official Vulkan Ray Tracing extension is being worked on.

AMD will support all raytracing titles using industry-based standards, including the Microsoft DXR API and the upcoming Vulkan raytracing API. Games making of use of proprietary raytracing APIs and extensions will not be supported.”
 

LukeTbk

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“AMD will support all raytracing titles using industry-based standards, including the Microsoft DXR API and the upcoming Vulkan raytracing API. Games making of use of proprietary raytracing APIs and extensions will not be supported.
I think what seem up in the air is the PS5 made game on the PS5 proprietary API being ported on the PC and obviously if even some new game will not use the proprietary Nvidia RTX like in the past, not those that are fully Microsoft DXR or Vulkan standard.
 

NKD

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Ok the thread article appears to be a clickbait nothingburger.

NVIDIA on Ray Tracing Support and Exclusive Technologies

Will DXR games run on AMD GPUs?

– DirectX Ray Tracing is an API approved by Microsoft for implementation by any hardware vendor. Games created using DXR should run on any DXR-compatible GPU. NVIDIA cannot talk about plans of other manufacturers to support DXR.

NVIDIA RTX supported games don’t use ‘proprietary’ tech

Nvidia’s Brian Burke explained that there are just three games on the market that aren’t using Microsoft’s DXR technology – Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood and JX3. These three games use an Nvidia ray-tracing extension for the Vulkan API, simply as a workaround while the official Vulkan Ray Tracing extension is being worked on.

AMD will support all raytracing titles using industry-based standards, including the Microsoft DXR API and the upcoming Vulkan raytracing API. Games making of use of proprietary raytracing APIs and extensions will not be supported.”

I think that is given. But but its not hard to assume that some older games will require some optimizations over next few months in driver for amd but I would understand if they just punt it and focus on upcoming games instead of focusing backwards. Look at Minecraft its simply looks broken on AMD getting 11 FPS or something. Which doesn't sound realistic. So some optimizations are definitely needed.
 

Mega6

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I think what seem up in the air is the PS5 made game on the PS5 proprietary API being ported on the PC and obviously if even some new game will not use the proprietary Nvidia RTX like in the past, not those that are fully Microsoft DXR or Vulkan standard.
The ps5 is nothing more than a half way step between RDNA1 and RDNA2. It's not some nefarious beast. Oh Noes, developers may have to write a few lines of code to get from rdna1 to 2. That's what their paid to do and its not an impossible by any means. Guess you didn't read or understand the articles. There is nothing proprietary going on between the APIs. If some developer wants to write his own raytracing api or library, well it's unsupported, obviously.
 

NKD

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The ps5 is nothing more than a half way step between RDNA1 and RDNA2. It's not some nefarious beast. Oh Noes, developers may have to write a few lines of code to get from rdna1 to 2. That's what their paid to do and its not an impossible by any means. Guess you didn't read or understand the articles. There is nothing proprietary going on between the APIs. If some developer wants to write his own raytracing api or library, well it's unsupported, obviously.

I have been looking for a good deep dive in PS5. I am not sure if we will ever know. Sony seems to have kept it close. Saw some videos showing PS5 20FPS faster then xbox series x in AC valhalla. I still don't believe it lol, I am wondering if xbox is rendering native and PS5 is using some upscaling. Rumor is it has some tech from RDNA 3 when it come to geometry and pixel fill rate which is more. So who knows, that might be true.
 

Mega6

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I think that is given. But but its not hard to assume that some older games will require some optimizations over next few months in driver for amd but I would understand if they just punt it and focus on upcoming games instead of focusing backwards. Look at Minecraft its simply looks broken on AMD getting 11 FPS or something. Which doesn't sound realistic. So some optimizations are definitely needed.
Older games are in the past, RTX, DX12 and DirectML is moving forward so fast, there is no time to waste on backward compatibility with older games written originally without these APIs. If older games magically run faster off the future development - great. If they don't? So what. They get left behind.
 

Mega6

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I have been looking for a good deep dive in PS5. I am not sure if we will ever know. Sony seems to have kept it close. Saw some videos showing PS5 20FPS faster then xbox series x in AC valhalla. I still don't believe it lol, I am wondering if xbox is rendering native and PS5 is using some upscaling. Rumor is it has some tech from RDNA 3 when it come to geometry and pixel fill rate which is more. So who knows, that might be true.
The PS5 and the XboxX are not the same, they are definitely APUs customized differently - for the customer. It will take some deep digging to figure out what those differences are.
 

ZeroBarrier

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Read my edit before your reply its less extreme
My reply came before your edit. I know because I refreshed after posting. My point still stands.
After reading the article I am really trying to determine if the developer simply made it an AMD exclusive by doing a hardware scan and disabling the option if it detects a non-AMD card. The game is using the DX12 DXR library which is standard on both hardware sets so it makes no sense to me that it would work on one and not the other. Granted it may not work evenly on both but it should certainly work on both. Timed exclusives for launch partners are a thing so I get it, it just leaves me with a lot of questions that are unlikely to ever receive an adequate answer from the developer. I am sure some hacking community will dig into it though and determine if it is an artificial limitation or an actual one.
You seem to be the only one taking this seriously. Thank you.
I think one possible issue here is this part:
Update 11/19: After this article was posted, an Nvidia representative reached out to stress that Nvidia "is not pushing proprietary ray tracing features in any games." As I wrote above, AMD and Nvidia both have a history of introducing technology that exclusively works on their graphics cards. Right now, Nvidia is adamant that ray tracing won't follow that path:

"We support all industry standard APIs, including Microsoft DXR and the upcoming Vulkan RT, which is not yet released. The vast majority of games released with ray tracing support use the industry standard Microsoft DirectX Ray Tracing (DXR) API. Three exceptions we are aware of include Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, and JX3, which use NVIDIA ray tracing extensions for Vulkan. But those extensions are necessary to get the standard released, and other venders can choose to support the NVIDIA extensions or not. They are not ‘proprietary’. Quake II RTX and Wolfenstein YB utilize our Vulkan extensions since Vulkan RT is not out yet. AMD could write extensions for Vulkan if they wanted to spend the resources doing so. Once Vulkan RT is publicly ready, we would have no reason to use extensions and we will move to Vulkan RT."

Sony PS5 isn't using either right ?

If you make Godfall for PS5 and turn around to adapt it for the PC, it could require a lot of work to make it work on non RDNA 2, even if they 100% support the DXR 12 ultimate standard.
Breaking down the issue even more because people just keep dismissing it because it's AMD. The game was also ported to PC, which means that either the RT had to be ported to DXR and the developer is intentionally blocking Nvidia GPUs, or the game was ported using proprietary RT for use only by AMD GPUs and the developer is intentionally holding back implementing proper DXR implementation.

Whether malicious or not, this is still a detriment to any RTX end user, period; and as such should be met with the same type of fervor as if Nvidia when they pull their shenanigans. Full stop, no excuses.
This is click bait yellow journalism that belongs on the backwater of the internet and not on a once respectable magazine's site. 100% speculation.

""Ray tracing using NVIDIA GPUs will come with a future update," the developer's patch notes say." - PC Gamer Article

Done.

It would be really, really, really dumb for any developer to do what's being alleged on the PC side. AMD has maybe 50,000 GPUs world wide that currently support ray tracing. Nvidia has millions. Additionally, if it support ray tracing via Direct X 12, Nvidia will support it.
Again, the main issue is not speculation. The developer is in fact turning on RT support for AMD GPUs before Nvidia GPUs instead of unilaterally turning on DXR for all GPUs that can make use of it. I can guarantee that if this was an Nvidia title and the developer did this for Nvidia people would be screaming bloody murder in this forum. I've seen it time and time again and it's obnoxious.
Sure, I'll explain. This was written on PS5, which doesn't user dxr... That would be xbox. Bam, conspiracy theory debunked, your welcome. While there may be some optimizing, it's not enough that they won't do it (they already said it would be released). I always said things that were written for dxr would work on AMD hardware, although maybe not optimal. The same can be said when reversed, although in this case it may be that it was developed on ps5 and had to use and extensions due to RT not being finalized in vulkan. This is a huge nothing from them looks of it, but I would appreciate if they gave a bit more details on why the delay outside of what we can speculate.
As I stated above, no matter how you spin it the developer is intentionally locking out one vendor over another for an unspecified amount of time. This should be unacceptable, no matter which camp you are in.
Ok the thread article appears to be a clickbait nothingburger.

NVIDIA on Ray Tracing Support and Exclusive Technologies

Will DXR games run on AMD GPUs?

– DirectX Ray Tracing is an API approved by Microsoft for implementation by any hardware vendor. Games created using DXR should run on any DXR-compatible GPU. NVIDIA cannot talk about plans of other manufacturers to support DXR.

NVIDIA RTX supported games don’t use ‘proprietary’ tech

Nvidia’s Brian Burke explained that there are just three games on the market that aren’t using Microsoft’s DXR technology – Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood and JX3. These three games use an Nvidia ray-tracing extension for the Vulkan API, simply as a workaround while the official Vulkan Ray Tracing extension is being worked on.

AMD will support all raytracing titles using industry-based standards, including the Microsoft DXR API and the upcoming Vulkan raytracing API. Games making of use of proprietary raytracing APIs and extensions will not be supported.”
You're saying it's nothing, saying both Nvidia and AMD will use DXR; and yet here were are with a developer locking out one vendor in favor of another for an unspecified amount of time. It should be considered unacceptable from both Nvidia and AMD users alike.
 

Mega6

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You're saying it's nothing, saying both Nvidia and AMD will use DXR; and yet here were are with a developer locking out one vendor in favor of another for an unspecified amount of time. It should be considered unacceptable from both Nvidia and AMD users alike.
It's a free country, if a company wants to write exclusive code that only works with "x" vendor hardware so be it and they also lose the market. It doesn't make sense economically or strategic wise. Sounds like a one time thing and not a trend. This isn't communist China, and even they wouldn't give a shit about a one off. It's only a video game.
 

wizzi01

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You're saying it's nothing, saying both Nvidia and AMD will use DXR; and yet here were are with a developer locking out one vendor in favor of another for an unspecified amount of time. It should be considered unacceptable from both Nvidia and AMD users alike.
yes a developer needed time to address Nvidia rtx. It's not like AMD is using a proprietary technology and the game won't run on Nvidia rtx ever.
 

LukeTbk

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It's a free country, if a company wants to write exclusive code that only works with "x" vendor hardware so be it and they also lose the market. It doesn't make sense economically or strategic wise. Sounds like a one time thing and not a trend. This isn't communist China, and even they wouldn't give a shit about a one off.
It depend what you gain in exchange, many company write code that onlys work on play station or nintendo (XBox in the past), only windows and on linux/mac, etc....

You lose markets but gain a lot of things in exchange. sometime litteral money from the owner of the platform that gain exclusivity, marketing campaign from them, simplicity of development and so on. It make a lot of sense strategic wise and is hyper common (probably the norm even ?)

I am really not sure the debate was about the legality of it here.
 

LukeTbk

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It's not like AMD is using a proprietary technology
Is that a fact, there is nothing that is proprietary to the playstation 5 proprietary graphic API that exist in any form on the PC version of the RDNA 2 ? (I am completely ignorant of much of anything here)
 

ZeroBarrier

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It's a free country, if a company wants to write exclusive code that only works with "x" vendor hardware so be it and they also lose the market. It doesn't make sense economically or strategic wise. Sounds like a one time thing and not a trend. This isn't communist China, and even they wouldn't give a shit about a one off. It's only a video game.
And with people like you, they'll continue to do this at the detriment of the end users of the hardware being locked out.
yes a developer needed time to address Nvidia rtx. It's not like AMD is using a proprietary technology and the game won't run on Nvidia rtx ever.
If they needed more time, they should have held off DXR for both vendors and release them simultaneously.
 

Mega6

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It depend what you gain in exchange, many company write code that onlys work on play station or nintendo (XBox in the past), only windows and on linux/mac, etc....

You lose markets but gain a lot of things in exchange. sometime litteral money from the owner of the platform that gain exclusivity, marketing campaign from them, simplicity of development and so on. It make a lot of sense strategic wise and is hyper common (probably the norm even ?)

I am really not sure the debate was about the legality of it here.
look up intel - amd lawsuit
 

wizzi01

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And with people like you, they'll continue to do this at the detriment of the end users of the hardware being locked out.

If they needed more time, they should have held off DXR for both vendors and release them simultaneously.
If this really bothered you so much why didn't you make a thread about AMD rtx not even being able to play quake II rtx? You just was to bag on AMD because you are not a fan. Like I said before this thread is useless for anything besides faux outrage.

Also, they wanted to get the product out. They did that and it really isn't an inconvenience for Nvidia users since they can still play the game.
 

Lakados

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yes a developer needed time to address Nvidia rtx. It's not like AMD is using a proprietary technology and the game won't run on Nvidia rtx ever.
But NVidia’s RTX isn’t proprietary, it’s a full open standard. The 2000’s use Microsoft DXR 1.0, the 3000’s and the 6000’s use Microsoft DXR 1.1 which is fully backwards compatible with DXR 1.0.
 

LukeTbk

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look up intel - amd lawsuit
Which one (there is many) and is it relevant to the legality of a game developer deciding to make a game that will run on playstation but not on Xbox, on Windows but not on Linux ? or a game developer offering proprietary feature like DSSL ?

The poster you responded too, do not seem to bring the legal aspect at all regardless and explicitly said that it should be on the users to care and guard about it, not the state's.
 

Mega6

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Which one (there is many) and is it relevant to the legality of a game developer deciding to make a game that will run on playstation but not on Xbox, on Windows but not on Linux ? or a game developer offering proprietary feature like DSSL ?

The poster you responded too, do not seem to bring the legal aspect at all regardless and explicitly said that it should be on the users to care and guard about it, not the state's.
Listen, the only real way to motivate a company to use a specific product (or code exclusively to a specific product) when identical competing products exist is to pay them off. That's illegal and anti-competitive. At least in this country and most others. (except Xi-land where anything goes)
 

LukeTbk

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Listen, the only real way to motivate a company to use a specific product (or code exclusively to a specific product) when identical competing products exist is to pay them off. That's illegal and anti-competitive. At least in this country and most others.
In very few message you went from:
It's a free country, if a company wants to write exclusive code that only works with "x" vendor hardware so be it

To it is not a free country at all and because of that there is nothing to worry about because it is illegal amd anti-competitive for a company to write exclusive code that only with "X" if there is identical competing products that exists.
 

Lakados

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Timed exclusives for the purpose of advertising and promotion is neither new nor unexpected. AMD’s been working closely with the developer to make things work, that is something that they generally charge for and not something they are known to do. It’s generally NVidia who sends techs out to work on exclusive features for their hardware. It’s an advertising thing, but I am somewhat troubled if this becomes a trend in the long run. The only thing you can do is not buy it until the features arrive for NVidia if you want to see the trend stop. If a developer sees that their initial sales are poor and that they pick up after they launch the NVidia patch then it will go a long ways toward incentivizing other developers to not continue the trend. As poor launch sales scare the crap out of publishers.
 

learners permit

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The initial test drive of any engine belongs to the builders would you disagree? Ridiculous criticism and impatience is for juveniles. The patches will come in time like everything else.
 

Mega6

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In very few message you went from:
It's a free country, if a company wants to write exclusive code that only works with "x" vendor hardware so be it

To it is not a free country at all and because of that there is nothing to worry about because it is illegal amd anti-competitive for a company to write exclusive code that only with "X" if there is identical competing products that exists.
Did you miss the part "pay them off."? Try and understand - A STUPID ONE-OFF company that codes exclusively is DUMB. They MISS OUT ON THE MARKET THAT THEY DONT CODE TO. AND ALL THE MONEY. DUMB.

So then you go on to say..
"You lose markets but gain a lot of things in exchange. sometime litteral money from the owner of the platform that gain exclusivity, marketing campaign from them, simplicity of development and so on. It make a lot of sense strategic wise and is hyper common (probably the norm even ?)"

Do you know how much money it would take to satisfy cutting out say 25% of your addressable market? More than a marketing campaign thats for sure.
What you really end up with in the end is called a payoff, bribe, there are many words to describe such illegal anti-competitive activities.

Yes, is developmental help from Nv and AMD to gaming companies for marketing purposes but never is there exclusive coding involved and I think you all are paranoid of a trend that does not and will never exist.
 

ZeroBarrier

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If this really bothered you so much why didn't you make a thread about AMD rtx not even being able to play quake II rtx? You just was to bag on AMD because you are not a fan. Like I said before this thread is useless for anything besides faux outrage.

Also, they wanted to get the product out. They did that and it really isn't an inconvenience for Nvidia users since they can still play the game.
You obviously need to go do your homework about this. It has already been stated numerous times there are only 3 games that have proprietary RTX extensions for RT. And I quote, "Nvidia’s Brian Burke explained that there are just three games on the market that aren’t using Microsoft’s DXR technology – Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood and JX3. These three games use an Nvidia ray-tracing extension for the Vulkan API, simply as a workaround while the official Vulkan Ray Tracing extension is being worked on."
Timed exclusives for the purpose of advertising and promotion is neither new nor unexpected. AMD’s been working closely with the developer to make things work, that is something that they generally charge for and not something they are known to do. It’s generally NVidia who sends techs out to work on exclusive features for their hardware. It’s an advertising thing, but I am somewhat troubled if this becomes a trend in the long run. The only thing you can do is not buy it until the features arrive for NVidia if you want to see the trend stop. If a developer sees that their initial sales are poor and that they pick up after they launch the NVidia patch then it will go a long ways toward incentivizing other developers to not continue the trend. As poor launch sales scare the crap out of publishers.
Yes, but when Nvidia does sound out techs to help work on exclusive features, they are that; exclusive features. Not for standard feature such as RT has been touted as being again and again for both camps.
 

Lakados

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Yes, but when Nvidia does sound out techs to help work on exclusive features, they are that; exclusive features. Not for standard feature such as RT has been touted as being again and again for both camps.
Sorry yes that’s what I meant and that’s why I said I was troubled by AMD’s trend while not being similarly troubled by NVidia’s. I should have made that clearer. Sending techs out to implement an exclusive feature like Hairworks is a lot different than what is supposed to be an open standard between the two.
 

LukeTbk

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Do you know how much money it would take to satisfy cutting out say 25% of your addressable market? More than a marketing campaign thats for sure.
How much of a market does Epic cut by accepting to make Gears of War and other games exclusively for the Xbox ?

It cut out the majority of the market by doing so, I am sure it did cost Microsoft a lot but at the end it was a total success story for both party.

You seem to say general business rules that could work for this tiny example in this thread but at not generals rules.
What you really end up with in the end is called a payoff, bribe, there are many words to describe such illegal anti-competitive activities.
Was Microsoft getting Epic to make exclusive game for the Xbox called a an illegal anti-competitive activities (and the long list of example of the sort), Square Enix with is final fantasy franchise deal and so on ?

For example:
In December of last year, Square Enix updated the box art for Final Fantasy VII Remake, showing the title to be a timed one-year exclusive on PS4.

Did anyone sue ? It is anti-competitive in a way in an other way it create an war to get exclusive with big money thrown in that competition.
 

chameleoneel

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The ps5 is nothing more than a half way step between RDNA1 and RDNA2. It's not some nefarious beast. Oh Noes, developers may have to write a few lines of code to get from rdna1 to 2. That's what their paid to do and its not an impossible by any means. Guess you didn't read or understand the articles. There is nothing proprietary going on between the APIs. If some developer wants to write his own raytracing api or library, well it's unsupported, obviously.
As far as I or anyone can tell (and known specs, especially compared to Series X GPU), PS5 is RDNA 2, with some customizations. It is not a "halfway step" and it is not missing features, as Microsoft's recent comments were designed to imply.

It has APU centric customizations, such as Smartshift. And if the PS4 is any indication, it likely has a whole dedicated bus for the CPU and GPU to independently and simultaneously access the 16GB GDDR6 RAM pool (rather than using resizeable BAR for a PC's split memory pool) And then there is the fact that Sony/PlayStation does not use Direct X. They have a custom API library which is based off OpenGL. They also support Vulkan.
And rather than direct storage, they are using a custom way to have better access to the SSD. The SSD has a 12-channel connection, a dedicated decompression unit supporting zlib, and the new Oodle Kraken protocol from RAD Game Tools.

I'm otherwise not aware of the GPU portion missing features inherent to RDNA 2 architecture. And again, known paper specs do not indicate any discrepancy.
 
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RanceJustice

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I object to exclusivity but I find it really hard to equate how Nvidia and AMD tend do do things even that are ostensibly, "exclusive". Sure, "FreeSync" monitors are ostensibly exclusive to AMD, but because they use an open VESA standard for their dynamic refresh rate etc... they can easily be supported by Nvidia too - IF they wish to do so (which took a long, long time until they were essentially threatened in the market). Prior to that Nvidia seemed content to let NV cards exclusively work with their proprietary GSync monitors, which still cannot be used by AMD GPUs to this day.

We know that their FidelityFX tech suite is open, and I hope that it along with AMD's support of raytracing as well as their alternative to DLSS will be open technologies, easily implemented and not tied to any one graphics card, operating system, or other technology. With luck the integration of RDNA2 hardware into this latest generation of consoles will hopefully help to cement its presence, but I am concerned about both the openness and performance of these technologies as they are implemented. We need to get past hardware or OS specific focus on new technologies and must be vigilant ; I don't want to see game company partnerships or any intrusion of those such as Microsoft (ie we see DirectX12 Ultimate supporting raytracing's inclusion, but I hope to see a Vulkan compatible platform agnostic focus instead) to get in the way.

While its great to see AMD back being truly competitive on the high end when it comes to GPUs (and perhaps even dominating when it comes to CPUs) , one reason I've been interested in purchasing their products is to vote with my wallet for openness in spec, source, and technology overall. Nvidia has a LOT of deficit to make up and their claim they're not pushing proprietary anything may be genuine ( I should mention I'd love to see NV turn the corner on their past but I see little to no evidence of that, sadly. ) , but so long as AMD stays the course and provides something near to parity performance and features support, along with following their tradition of openness which has given us everything from FreeSync to the Linux driver package that is a single fully open source base + an optional proprietary add-on , there's lots of reasons to support them. Lets hope they continue down that road.
 

tangoseal

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In seriousness, ray tracing to me is a little over hype and has been. In fact no one has been thinking about RT until it became a way for nVidia to make more cash. Theres been so many games that have simulated shadows and volumeteric lighting through regular rasterized approches that look fantastic. Thus, I wouldnt buy a GPU for just RT perfromance. Id buy a GPU for all the other features that youre going to make more use of. RT is kind of like a feature but given the repulsive and disgusting performace leech it is, even on 3000 hardware, id say its a feature, not a main event for your gpu.
 

ManofGod

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My reply came before your edit. I know because I refreshed after posting. My point still stands.

You seem to be the only one taking this seriously. Thank you.

Breaking down the issue even more because people just keep dismissing it because it's AMD. The game was also ported to PC, which means that either the RT had to be ported to DXR and the developer is intentionally blocking Nvidia GPUs, or the game was ported using proprietary RT for use only by AMD GPUs and the developer is intentionally holding back implementing proper DXR implementation.

Whether malicious or not, this is still a detriment to any RTX end user, period; and as such should be met with the same type of fervor as if Nvidia when they pull their shenanigans. Full stop, no excuses.

Again, the main issue is not speculation. The developer is in fact turning on RT support for AMD GPUs before Nvidia GPUs instead of unilaterally turning on DXR for all GPUs that can make use of it. I can guarantee that if this was an Nvidia title and the developer did this for Nvidia people would be screaming bloody murder in this forum. I've seen it time and time again and it's obnoxious.

As I stated above, no matter how you spin it the developer is intentionally locking out one vendor over another for an unspecified amount of time. This should be unacceptable, no matter which camp you are in.

You're saying it's nothing, saying both Nvidia and AMD will use DXR; and yet here were are with a developer locking out one vendor in favor of another for an unspecified amount of time. It should be considered unacceptable from both Nvidia and AMD users alike.

No, people are not dismissing it because it is AMD but, they are dismissing it because it really is an non issue. However, if it were Nvidia, they have a history and would rightly be called out for it.
 
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GoodBoy

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If the "future update (with Nvidia RTX enabled)" comes out a week later, then I think we can give the dev a pass. Will also mean it's a clickbait article.

This looks more like AMD pushing for it to be AMD only. It's a game that has the AMD splash during startup, so AMD helps the dev implement new graphics technologies. So, they decide to turn on RTX only for AMD. This is shitty behavior, as the game uses DXR which is the standard API. If Nvidia did this with "The way it's meant to be played", AMD fans would be (rightly so) shitting all over it.

It might be AMD (dev support) saying "we can't guarantee performance on non-AMD..." which is kind of hilarious as they can't guarantee performance on AMD either from the looks of the RT reviews.

Saying it is a "non-issue" is premature, as we do not know yet. If it is just this one game, and if it is only for a short time, then I will agree it is a non-issue. As soon as it starts happening in other games, or if the "future update" is 6 months out, then it will be an "issue".

The fanboys stand out by their double standard.
 

ManofGod

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If the "future update (with Nvidia RTX enabled)" comes out a week later, then I think we can give the dev a pass. Will also mean it's a clickbait article.

This looks more like AMD pushing for it to be AMD only. It's a game that has the AMD splash during startup, so AMD helps the dev implement new graphics technologies. So, they decide to turn on RTX only for AMD. This is shitty behavior, as the game uses DXR which is the standard API. If Nvidia did this with "The way it's meant to be played", AMD fans would be (rightly so) shitting all over it.

It might be AMD (dev support) saying "we can't guarantee performance on non-AMD..." which is kind of hilarious as they can't guarantee performance on AMD either from the looks of the RT reviews.

Saying it is a "non-issue" is premature, as we do not know yet. If it is just this one game, and if it is only for a short time, then I will agree it is a non-issue. As soon as it starts happening in other games, or if the "future update" is 6 months out, then it will be an "issue".

The fanboys stand out by their double standard.

That they do. Read up on proprietary and see how many hits you get on Nv vs AMD.

Nope, you guys are not correct. There is no cause for concern and besides, how would you know they cannot guarantee performance on AMD if they have nothing to compare it to on Nvidia with this game? Personally, sounds to me more like some do not appreciate that AMD is competitive again. :)
 

wizzi01

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But NVidia’s RTX isn’t proprietary, it’s a full open standard. The 2000’s use Microsoft DXR 1.0, the 3000’s and the 6000’s use Microsoft DXR 1.1 which is fully backwards compatible with DXR 1.0.

Where did I say it was?
 

wizzi01

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You obviously need to go do your homework about this. It has already been stated numerous times there are only 3 games that have proprietary RTX extensions for RT. And I quote, "Nvidia’s Brian Burke explained that there are just three games on the market that aren’t using Microsoft’s DXR technology – Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood and JX3. These three games use an Nvidia ray-tracing extension for the Vulkan API, simply as a workaround while the official Vulkan Ray Tracing extension is being worked on."

Yes, but when Nvidia does sound out techs to help work on exclusive features, they are that; exclusive features. Not for standard feature such as RT has been touted as being again and again for both camps.

So, why did you make this thread if you aren't outraged you can't play and rtx on quake ii rtx right now even if there is a patch coming? I guess you don't see the hypocrisy.
 

wizzi01

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Your post read schrcasticslly in a manner implying it was. If that wasn’t the intent my bad.

I said: It's not like AMD is using a proprietary technology. That should be taken at face value anything other than that is on biases and reading into it what you want.
 
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