Bought a pair of JBL LSR305s - Constant hiss

You have to remember that marketing is marketing. Vanatoo is not going to show their products in a negative manner and not all online reviewers are honest either, they get paid for reviews.

For example the talk of having a passive crossover vs biamp is total hogwash. It's a totally gimped down solution with the sole purpose of saving costs. Active crossovers are always way superior to passive ones.

Exactly, which is why I usually recommend people audition their speakers before blindly purchasing them.

Good article on the last part:

http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring
 
I'm not sure, but you seem a bit defensive. All I said is the JBL' are the louder speaker, and this isn't based on theory. The JBL' put out more power and SPL (95 for the Vanatoo vs 108 for the JBL'). Your comment reads like I said the Vanatoo' can barely be heard compared to the JBL'.

Firstly, much of that post was not actually dedicated to responding to you, although I quoted you at the top. The only bits dedicated to responding to you are the first sentence and probably the last paragraph; otherwise it was just kind of rambling. Second, if you're seeing that as defensive, then my impression of your post was correct. You were kind of making a swipe at them, though subtle. Third, it's just the way you said it sounded like you were making an observation that actually mattered for desktop speakers. Either one is plenty loud enough for near field desktop listening. You wouldn't want to be listening to either one at max volume.

Fourth and finally, the whole "defensive" vs otherwise thing is practically equivalent to ad hominem these days. I don't care whether I'm being defensive or not. This is a discussion, and all of that is just pointless crap.

Monitoring? I didn't bring up. If you're referencing to my comment about them being more oriented towards "casual listening" at the desk/near-field, they are more suited towards that goal. They have more connection options, one speaker is passive and they don't get ridiculously loud. In regards to engineers, they use a variety of tools and not just one pair of speakers. Earphones have different imaging than loud speakers, which is why speakers are also used in professional environments.

You did, indirectly. I disagree. Having listened to both, I would say that the JBL's maybe have a tiny bit more clarity, but that's about it (if that). Heck the guy I quoted even mentioned that these sounded too much like studio monitors when he first heard them. These are definitely much more casual in terms of setting them up, but that doesn't mean that they're just for casual listeners. I will say it's nice that I didn't have to connect them to a different outlet (sacrificing two grounded plugs), and hooking them up was much easier.

The JBL' need a subwoofer to compete with the Vanatoo'? Here's the frequency response comparison between the two aforementioned speakers. From the same reviewer (Noaudiophile).

Maybe a 3hz-5hz difference, with neither of them competing with a dedicated sub.

You should know by now that frequency charts don't really tell you everything. I will simply say that I found these to sound more full than the JBL's did, overall. The JBL's were probably a bit more clear (if I ignored the hissing that was distorting the sound signature anyway).

I think we get that you and others like the speakers, no need to beat us over the head about how great they are. LOL. There's also only a .1% review score difference between the JBL and Vanatoo speakers on Amazon, with the JBL' having substantially more reviews; but I pointlessly digress. I assume you brought it up to reinforce their inferiority to the Vanatoo'.

No. =_=;

It's more like I felt like you were making too much of a swipe at the Vanatoo's by calling them simple "premium multimedia speakers". These are a bit far removed from your Swans, Audioengines, Preces, etc. They have something in common in that they are simple to set up and use in such an environment, but I believe the overall package these put together is something you do not see in many other places. I don't say that these are necessarily better than the JBL's. I would have to really listen to them side by side to say one way or the other. The only stuff I say for sure, is stuff that I can tell even from memory after hearing both of them. I can say that I am enjoying listening to music on these more than the JBL's, but there is no objective way for me to say that they're inferior.

As desktop computer speakers, I feel they're superior as a package because of the connectivity options and convenience (and size, which is also a big factor). Simply sound quality wise? I would have to have a side by side test. If I was defending anything, it's against people treating JBL LSR305's as the only good budget speaker option.

"They're great (hissing aside), but look other stuff that sounds as good or better exists! What a surprise, right?" Is what I was trying to kind of get through, here. These Vanatoo's are an interesting option and if anything I was just kind of encouraging people to get out of the LSR305 cave and try out something else for once. If I turn around your statement of:
"I think we get that you and others like the speakers, no need to beat us over the head about how great they are. LOL."
I'm getting tired of seeing this all over the place regarding the LSR305's. They were good, but everyone and their mother doesn't need to be jumping into the boat. Other things exist. I feel these Vanatoo's qualify as a competitive "other", even at their price point. That's all I'm saying.
 
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Exactly, which is why I usually recommend people audition their speakers before blindly purchasing them.

Good article on the last part:

http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

Except I don't think any of those setups describe what he was talking about. It's been a while since my EE labs, but I think what he's saying is that these don't actually have a ground. The other terminal acts as a negative voltage, and there is circuitry within the speaker that separates the negative and positive signals out... or something to that effect. He doesn't go into too much detail, so I'm not sure. Either way I can tell you that the part that he was talking about (zero hiss at all volume levels) is totally true.

If you're talking about biamping... umm... no. There is only one pair of input terminals on the back of the passive speaker. These are not biamped.

I tried googling the "Bridged balanced amplification" thing that he was talking about, but it didn't come up with many results.
 
Second, if you're seeing that as defensive, then my impression of your post was correct. You were kind of making a swipe at them, though subtle.

You consider labeling the JBL' louder and calling the Vanatoo' "premium multimedia speakers" a swipe? LOL.

They drain less power due to having only one amp, are easier to connect and make a better addition to a desk than the larger JBL's. That's the swipe you're referencing to?


Third, it's just the way you said it sounded like you were making an observation that actually mattered for desktop speakers. Either one is plenty loud enough for near field desktop listening. You wouldn't want to be listening to either one at max volume.

I'm not sure how any of this refutes my claim about the JBL' being louder, since other people have them placed differently. Some even have them mounted.

I don't care whether I'm being defensive or not. This is a discussion, and all of that is just pointless crap.

Sure. Sure.


You did, indirectly.

Can you quote me please. I'd like to examine the issue further.

You should know by now that frequency charts don't really tell you everything.

I imagine it would give me a good indication of bass response though, unless you're saying there is another way to ascertain this outside of personal opinion?

It's more like I felt like you were making too much of a swipe at the Vanatoo's by calling them simple "premium multimedia speakers". These are a bit far removed from your Swans, Audioengines, Preces, etc. They have something in common in that they are simple to set up and use in such an environment, but I believe the overall package these put together is something you do not see in many other places

You take issue with the term "multimedia speaker"? Why? Unless you're convinced multimedia speakers are junk? Most are. A lot aren't. All speakers aren't created equal.

Despite this, like most multimedia speakers (such as the brands you mentioned), the Vanatoo' are powered by a single, low power amp; with one speaker being passive. They are also easy to connect, and are generally designed for entertainment.

The most distinguishing features of the Vanatoo are the DSP, passive radiator and abundance of connection options; but even some of the aforementioned brands offer some of these features.

As desktop computer speakers, I feel they're superior as a package because of the connectivity options and convenience (and size, which is also a big factor). Simply sound quality wise? I would have to have a side by side test.

I Agree.

If I was defending anything, it's against people treating JBL LSR305's as the only good budget speaker option.

So you take issue with the fact that people are enamored with an excellent speaker that cost $300 less (sometimes lesser) than the Vanatoo'? Not sure I follow, didn't you yourself say they were a bit expensive for most consumers?

"They're great (hissing aside), but look other stuff that sounds as good or better exists! What a surprise, right?" Is what I was trying to kind of get through, here. These Vanatoo's are an interesting option and if anything I was just kind of encouraging people to get out of the LSR305 cave and try out something else for once. If I turn around your statement of:
"I think we get that you and others like the speakers, no need to beat us over the head about how great they are. LOL."
I'm getting tired of seeing this all over the place regarding the LSR305's. They were good, but everyone and their mother doesn't need to be jumping into the boat. Other things exist. I feel these Vanatoo's qualify as a competitive "other". That's all I'm saying.

People recommend the JBL' because they're cheap, generally easy to use/setup and are in the same price bracket as many PC speakers; whilst offering superior sound quality (90% of the time I'd reckon). The Vanatoo' are $500+ and may or may not sound better; depending on the user.

As such, I don't get what the beef is.
 
As such, I don't get what the beef is.

If that's your angle, then there isn't as much beef. To me the whole "multimedia speakers" thing has a much more negative connotation than it does to you. The JBL's being "monitors" vs these being simple "multimedia speakers" just rubbed the the wrong way. I guess we were speaking from different perspectives, and that was the cause of most of this. I'll take some stabs at some of this, though. I do not feel the JBL's are "generally easy to use/setup". They're pretty fussy, and you pretty much need a DAC to use them (probably with balanced outputs). Otherwise, you need to hook them into separate plugs or they will pick up interference from your computer. Considering the length of the cord they come with, and the way you need two plugs, I pretty much ended up having to move another power strip just to plug them into. At least with that, they finally stopped picking up interference and buzzing. That was unpleasant. Plus they're pretty big.

I will agree that for 200$ (well more than that considering you need some source), they're a great value. I would have kept mine if they didn't hiss like that. To me the fact that the Vanatoo speakers had 0 hiss at all volume levels was a godsend. I will try to get to a Guitar Center at some point to see if I can test out some more of these LSR305's to see if they all have the aforementioned hiss.

For comparing their sound signatures vs price, the real question comes down to how good the DAC (and whole overall package) is in these Vanatoos vs the DAC that you would need to pair with the JBL's in order to produce the same sound quality.
 
Except I don't think any of those setups describe what he was talking about. It's been a while since my EE labs, but I think what he's saying is that these don't actually have a ground. The other terminal acts as a negative voltage, and there is circuitry within the speaker that separates the negative and positive signals out... or something to that effect. He doesn't go into too much detail, so I'm not sure. Either way I can tell you that the part that he was talking about (zero hiss at all volume levels) is totally true.

If you're talking about biamping... umm... no. There is only one pair of input terminals on the back of the passive speaker. These are not biamped.

No, from what I recall, better powered speakers follow something more akin to bi-wiring setup internally. Each driver draws its power from a single source (amp) with the drivers being wired to that amp.

I know these aren't bi-amped. LOL. I was more specifically putting emphasis on the difference between bi-wiring and active crossovers with bi-amping.
 
If that's your angle, then there isn't as much beef. To me the whole "multimedia speakers" thing has a much more negative connotation than it does to you. The JBL's being "monitors" vs these being simple "multimedia speakers" just rubbed the the wrong way.

I'm more liberal in my speaker views. For instance, "hi-fI" has taken on a negative connotation with a lot of enthusiasts. Not sure why, hi-fi speakers (by definition) are simply speakers that strive for accuracy and distortion free sound; like a "good" studio monitor is supposed to. Yet, if you mention them in the same sentence, you'll have an argument on your hands.

Bad speakers masquerading as "hi-fi" have ruined the term. These pieces of junk are called "lo-fi". Multimedia speakers, from my perspective, are just speakers that offer convenience, are usually connected/ to around a computer and drain low power. That doesn't mean they suck.

Some monitors are reputed to sound atrocious for casual listening, but are good for making accurate mixes. Go figure.

They're all speakers though.

I guess we were speaking from different perspectives, and that was the cause of most of this. I'll take some stabs at some of this, though. I do not feel the JBL's are "generally easy to use/setup". They're pretty fussy, and you pretty much need a DAC to use them (probably with balanced outputs). Otherwise, you need to hook them into separate plugs or they will pick up interference from your computer. Considering the length of the cord they come with, and the way you need two plugs, I pretty much ended up having to move another power strip just to plug them into. At least with that, they finally stopped picking up interference and buzzing. That was unpleasant. Plus they're pretty big.

I just got a dirt cheap, refurbished Xonar card and y splitter (about $20 altogether) and called it a day. Everything else came bundled with a good deal from American Music Supply. It sounded better than on-board for damn sure.
 
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No, from what I recall, better powered speakers follow something more akin to bi-wiring setup internally. Each driver draws its power from a single source (amp) with the drivers being wired to that amp.

I know these aren't bi-amped. LOL. I was more specifically putting emphasis on the difference between bi-wiring and active crossovers with bi-amping.

I was more referring to what the reviewer was talking about with regards to "Bridged balanced amplification", and why that makes it so these have absolutely no hiss relative to other options. I tried doing some more research on this, and came up with some various terms.

One of them was this:
https://e2e.ti.com/support/amplifiers/audio_amplifiers/w/design_notes/1554.what-is-btl-configuration

That might be what he's referring to, but I'm not sure. It mentions the removal of DC bias, which might also be interpreted as a sort of noise floor... Mmmm... not sure, it's been so long since those labs. But that being said, I would think that DC noise floor would not cause hiss. Probably not it.

This thread might be talking about this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/148709-bridged-vs-conventional-amps.html

Lol I saw that circuit that someone pasted near the bottom. Looks pretty massive, and I'm not surprised. Like I said, even the passive speaker out of this speaker combo is fairly heavy. Mmm...maybe someone more familiar can chip in. Analog circuitry isn't my thing.

I just got a dirt cheap, refurbished Xonar card and y splitter (about $20 altogether) and called it a day. Everything else came bundled with a good deal from American Music Supply. It sounded better than on-board for damn sure.

That works, sure. I wonder what kind of setup on the JBL's would put these at relative parity. For my purposes assuming all JBL LSR305's have hiss, they will never be at parity.
 
Except I don't think any of those setups describe what he was talking about. It's been a while since my EE labs, but I think what he's saying is that these don't actually have a ground. The other terminal acts as a negative voltage, and there is circuitry within the speaker that separates the negative and positive signals out... or something to that effect. He doesn't go into too much detail, so I'm not sure. Either way I can tell you that the part that he was talking about (zero hiss at all volume levels) is totally true.

If you're talking about biamping... umm... no. There is only one pair of input terminals on the back of the passive speaker. These are not biamped.

I tried googling the "Bridged balanced amplification" thing that he was talking about, but it didn't come up with many results.

Heh it's more marketing hogwash. Push/pull is nothing special it's used in almost all regular amps. http://reviseomatic.org/help/s-push-pull/Push Pull MOSFET Amp.php

The push/pull amp does not negate hiss in any way. The silentness of the Vanatoo has probably more to do with the class D operation.
 
From what I read online, Class D in general amplifiers aren't immune to hiss by design in any way (rather, many of them have it... including my Topping Amplifiers, when the volume is jacked up very high... though compared to the LSR305's, my Topping is nearly silent at anywhere under 75-100%, at least at normal listening distances.). I mean the JBL LSR305's use Class D amps, too.

Anyway I might have simply misunderstood what the reviewer meant by that section. I doubt a guy that actually went and took the LSR305's apart would go and make a note about something that every amplifier has in it...
 
From what I read online, Class D in general amplifiers aren't immune to hiss by design in any way (rather, many of them have it... including my Topping Amplifiers, when the volume is jacked up very high... though compared to the LSR305's, my Topping is nearly silent at anywhere under 75-100%, at least at normal listening distances.). I mean the JBL LSR305's use Class D amps, too.

Anyway I might have simply misunderstood what the reviewer meant by that section. I doubt a guy that actually went and took the LSR305's apart would go and make a note about something that every amplifier has in it...

It's called marketing. You know, when you sell sound absorbing materials that have the 'unique ability to turn sound waves into heat'. It's meant for the dumb consumer who doesn't understand that if the sound is absorbed it's turned into heat in every case. There are also many ways to make a D-class amp. D-class inherently produces a lot of noise but it's usually pushed up to the supersonic frequencies. The hiss may come from the pre-stage of the amp too. If you connect unbalanced amp/players to a balanced amp, this drops signal to noise ratio also considerably.
 
It's called marketing. You know, when you sell sound absorbing materials that have the 'unique ability to turn sound waves into heat'. It's meant for the dumb consumer who doesn't understand that if the sound is absorbed it's turned into heat in every case. There are also many ways to make a D-class amp. D-class inherently produces a lot of noise but it's usually pushed up to the supersonic frequencies. The hiss may come from the pre-stage of the amp too. If you connect unbalanced amp/players to a balanced amp, this drops signal to noise ratio also considerably.

... What I'm talking about was the part that quoted out of the review that the person did on these speakers. Vanatoo themselves do not mention the crossover and amplification type anywhere on their web site. So it's kind of hard to see where you're coming from here. Unless you're already under the assumption that he was paid off by them for the review.

Either way, many accounts of d amplifiers that I have heard mention hiss, so they must simply use a very clean one here. Or maybe it's some interaction between the DAC and AMP since they're both in the speaker as well.
 
I read through entire 3 pages of this thread, forgive me if it was mentioned before. Anyways.... did you ever connect JBL's to proper audio interface? such as Focusrite Scarlett 2i2?

I've owned these speakers for almost two years now, used to have Yamahas HS 8's too, unfortunately they burned out. I'm "bedroom DJ" do music production as a hobby and JBL's by far my favorites for home studio when pared to proper audio interface.

Regarding to hiss/fuss, I too experienced this before, however that was in the midst of the move and I didn't have my Focusrite hooked up. So, I went to guitar center bought stereo Y split cable, hooked these speakers to internal PC audio card and dear god, oh dear god! The hiss was horrible, anything I played had crackle and etc. So I went digging for my scarlett box :D
 
I read through entire 3 pages of this thread, forgive me if it was mentioned before. Anyways.... did you ever connect JBL's to proper audio interface? such as Focusrite Scarlett 2i2?

I've owned these speakers for almost two years now, used to have Yamahas HS 8's too, unfortunately they burned out. I'm "bedroom DJ" do music production as a hobby and JBL's by far my favorites for home studio when pared to proper audio interface.

Regarding to hiss/fuss, I too experienced this before, however that was in the midst of the move and I didn't have my Focusrite hooked up. So, I went to guitar center bought stereo Y split cable, hooked these speakers to internal PC audio card and dear god, oh dear god! The hiss was horrible, anything I played had crackle and etc. So I went digging for my scarlett box :D

You might be a bit confused because I posted most of that information in the other topic for these in the Hotdeals section. Long story short, I didn't have anything hooked up to them at all, and tried moving them to several outlets in every room of the house. The hiss was there no matter where I hooked them in at.

Like I said at some point I plan to try to get another pair or two and try it out at Guitar Center.... maybe. I just don't know where I'd put them at this point. I already have these Vanatoo's taking up the desktop slot, and I have a speaker for almost every other occasion. One thing I"m considering is a full surround HT setup with the JBL's that might be interesting, although I don't know of a DAC with 5.1 output, save the PC sound card.
 
You might be a bit confused because I posted most of that information in the other topic for these in the Hotdeals section. Long story short, I didn't have anything hooked up to them at all, and tried moving them to several outlets in every room of the house. The hiss was there no matter where I hooked them in at.

Like I said at some point I plan to try to get another pair or two and try it out at Guitar Center.... maybe. I just don't know where I'd put them at this point. I already have these Vanatoo's taking up the desktop slot, and I have a speaker for almost every other occasion. One thing I"m considering is a full surround HT setup with the JBL's that might be interesting, although I don't know of a DAC with 5.1 output, save the PC sound card.


Ahh yes I read through that thread too, couldn't post anything there since my post count is so low and I didn't think it was same users hehe but yeah, you did probably get defective pair of speakers or like you're saying that you're really prone to high freq hiss sound.
 
If you connect unbalanced amp/players to a balanced amp, this drops signal to noise ratio also considerably.
"Can" or "will"?

Either way, many accounts of d amplifiers that I have heard mention hiss, so they must simply use a very clean one here. Or maybe it's some interaction between the DAC and AMP since they're both in the speaker as well.
Because Vanatoo uses the digital signal to control the amp directly, they easily could mute the amp when the signal's low. I don't know that they do, but this method would explain the complete silence.

You can see a similar scenario with an early Benchmark DAC1 USB. Compare figures 2 & 12, then read the article's last 2 pages.
 
"Can" or "will"?


Because Vanatoo uses the digital signal to control the amp directly, they easily could mute the amp when the signal's low. I don't know that they do, but this method would explain the complete silence.

You can see a similar scenario with an early Benchmark DAC1 USB. Compare figures 2 & 12, then read the article's last 2 pages.

Can and will, how much depends on a multitude of factors. The output and the input impedances of the devices determine a lot of things for example so it may not work the same with different devices. Using an unbalanced to balanced signal route can drop your signal levels by 50% for example. And in some cases not.
 
Try using balanced cables. Most powered monitors in this price range have "hiss" and if you really want to eliminate that you'll have to spend a lot more.
 
Try using balanced cables. Most powered monitors in this price range have "hiss" and if you really want to eliminate that you'll have to spend a lot more.

Balanced cables only work if your source and amp are both balanced. Otherwise they make little to no difference.
 
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