Bought a pair of JBL LSR305s - Constant hiss

T

todlerix

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TL;DR - help me find new speakers. I can't stand the idle noise from these JBLs.

So I've determined that it isn't my power or my equipment. From three different power sources and three different devices, and with no devices connected. No matter what volume and settings the speakers are configured at (switches on back), there is a constant hiss, whether I'm 25inches or 50 inches away. They sound great while they've got music loud enough to drown out the hiss - I'm no audiophile, but they are damn great when playing music (as long as there are no silent points). I've read about other cases of this and it seems the internal amps produce this noise and that's all there is to it.

So now I'm looking for a different set, with the added requirement of no audible noise from the speakers while they are at idle.

I'm currently eyeballing the Vanatoo Transparent One

http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0080K2KUK
 
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I know that feel :(. I wish I could give you advice in the price range you are looking, but I can't as I haven't examined that range of stuff. Just know there are plenty that do have idle noise. Maybe hit up a Guitar Center. They have lots of reasonably affordable monitors. Listen to them up close, with the volume dial at minimum, choose a pair with low hiss and take them home and see how they do.

Alternatively you get get passives with a good amp and pre, but it'll cost more.
 
I'm in the same situation as you. I'm not sure why he did it, but post #27 provides a nice summary of my situation.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1884394&page=2

I could hear the things from 3-4 feet away no matter what, at various knob levels. It sucks being sensitive to this frequency range. Apparently other people don't have this issue, though there's still a lack of conclusive evidence as to whether it is personal sensitivity or simply a pair of defective speakers (personally I think the latter is unlikely...). I'm going to try out the Vanatoo's you linked pretty much as soon as my refund from Amazon comes in. Apparently it can take up to two weeks for them to actual process something after they receive it. =_=; Painless my butt. I've heard really good things about the Vanatoo speakers, including that they're basically silent.
 
while I'm a big active studio monitor fan, from what i can see most of them are very susceptible to idle hiss. From the cheapo ones to the expensive such as fancy pants Genelecs.

Normally it should be audible only when the room is very quiet and no music is playing so it does not bother me. If you really cannot stand it then you should perhaps should look into passive speakers + amp as mentioned.

I would still look into studio monitors even though passive versions are rather sparse. They are designed for nearfield listening matching typical computer listening positions.
 
I read about the hiss, decided to go with Micca MB42x. They aren't powered, so i'm hooking them up to my A/V receiver. They sound great (comparing to smaller speakers I had before).
 
There is no reason why a studio monitor should hiss any more than any regular amplifier would. Someone got a defective pair and now makes wild generalisations.

Amps start to hiss if they're stored too long without power. The filtering capacitors go bad unused with time.
 
I see these topics about extreme hiss and the LSR305 pop up now and then, but, honestly, I've never had an issue. Owned them almost two years now. I can only hear a hiss if my ear is right next to the speaker (maybe 5-8 inches). I imagine I can hear pretty well, too. LOL.

My computer makes more noise.
 
B00nie said:
There is no reason why a studio monitor should hiss any more than any regular amplifier would. Someone got a defective pair and now makes wild generalisations.

Amps start to hiss if they're stored too long without power. The filtering capacitors go bad unused with time.
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Cheap amps, that's why. Sadly that is a component that some active monitors cheap out on. The Presonus Sceptre have that problem. Good drivers, good DSP, cheap switching amp that hisses at idle. Many people don't notice or care, so they don't spend the money in that area.
 
heflys20 said:
My computer makes more noise.
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That's the issue. Different rooms have different amounts of noise. Somewhat oversimplified you only really hear the loudest noise, the rest can only contribute a little to it. So if you have a computer or what not making noise and you are ok with the noise level, then you may not be able to hear other stuff. However some people have really quiet rooms, and are fussy (like me) so they notice the noise and it annoys them.
 
Sycraft said:
That's the issue. Different rooms have different amounts of noise. Somewhat oversimplified you only really hear the loudest noise, the rest can only contribute a little to it. So if you have a computer or what not making noise and you are ok with the noise level, then you may not be able to hear other stuff. However some people have really quiet rooms, and are fussy (like me) so they notice the noise and it annoys them.
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I can understand how it can be irritating for some, but I've slept with the speakers on (usually a mistake) and the computer off. I've never really noticed, and I'm an irritable sleeper with the speakers next to my bed. My room is pretty quiet, too. From the descriptions provided, people are hearing a loud hiss even when music is playing and even when standing a considerable distance from the speakers.

The point I was hinting at is that I assume the other posters have computers in the same room as these speakers, and I'd wager this hiss is drowning even that out.

Definitely weird, but like you said, some people may be more susceptible to the noise. (Shrugs).
 
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B00nie said:
There is no reason why a studio monitor should hiss any more than any regular amplifier would. Someone got a defective pair and now makes wild generalisations.

Amps start to hiss if they're stored too long without power. The filtering capacitors go bad unused with time.
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It's kind of funny that you're making a wild generalization (that is you have no way to prove it) in the same post where you claim that other people are doing the same.

For both me and him, these were brand new speakers. Furthermore, mine were not even bought as a pair (I don't know about him). They were bought as two separate speakers with a quantity of two on the order. The serial number was very different on both of them, indicating that they were probably not even part of the same batch. Why don't you tell me the probability that two completely separate speakers were made with the exact same defect, which presented with no input signal regardless of the socket in the house used? I would venture to say that if their manufacturing processes were that faulty, they would be getting returns like crazy.

I mean this person went and drove around to various high end shops and claimed he could hear hiss out of all of the speakers he tried out, up to models that cost well over 10k$:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-...917370-quietest-active-monitors-hiss-etc.html

As far as theoretical reasons why they might hiss more:
http://www.hifivision.com/active-speakers/17925-active-vs-passive-crossover.html#post363837

In the disadvantages, there are plenty of them them that would lead to more noise. To me, purely on a theoretical level it makes some sense, too. Active crossovers are likely more sensitive than passive ones to noise because they probably take less energy out of the signal. They're touted to be more efficient and easier to drive as one of their strong points, but does this not mean that they would be more susceptible to noise from the amplifier? It would make sense that purely passive speakers would take noise out of the system simply because even high sensitivity ones are harder to drive and their crossovers take energy out of the system. The hiss noise floor from any amplifier would probably be eliminated as an effect, until you crank the knob up to very high volumes. It takes any of my passive speakers to be hooked up to a source which is at 100% amplifier knob position before they become as noisy as both of the LSR305's were at any knob level.

To me, though, this ultimately seems to be a "we were not created equal" type of issue. Some people simply hear better than others, and then some people make lifetime decisions which drastically reduce their hearing over time:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24131608
Coupled with the fact that people lose hearing over time as they age. Everyone has a different pair of ears, yet they're sitting here trying to make sweeping generalizations as to who should and should not hear a noise floor.


heflys20 said:
I can understand how it can be irritating for some, but I've slept with the speakers on (usually a mistake) and the computer off. I've never really noticed, and I'm an irritable sleeper with speakers next to my bed. My room is pretty quiet, too. From the descriptions provided, people are hearing a loud hiss even when music is playing and even when standing a considerable distance from the speakers.

The point I was hinting at is that I assume the other posters have computers in the same room as these speakers, and I'd wager this hiss is drowning even that out.

Definitely weird, but like you said, some people may be more susceptible to the noise. (Shrugs).
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I have a fan controller.... but that being said my hearing is sensitive enough (though kind of barely) to hear the JBL speakers hissing even with my extremely loud, crappy fridge going and my fans turned up to nearly max in my case. I can also hear it over quiet tracks at points...
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
I have a fan controller.... but that being said my hearing is sensitive enough (though kind of barely) to hear the JBL speakers hissing even with my extremely loud, crappy fridge going and my fans turned up to nearly max in my case. I can also hear it over quiet tracks at points...
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That's crazy. LOL. I would have returned them too.
 
I'll also note that it was all from 3 feet or so normal listening distance... If I went into the 1-2 ft range it was louder. When my head got used to recognizing the sound signature from the hiss, I could pick it out better and better. That's why I hesitated a few days before returning them.
 
Sycraft said:
Cheap amps, that's why. Sadly that is a component that some active monitors cheap out on. The Presonus Sceptre have that problem. Good drivers, good DSP, cheap switching amp that hisses at idle. Many people don't notice or care, so they don't spend the money in that area.
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Studio monitors are pro gear. I doubt they'd be hissing annoyingly by design as they're designed to be used in an extremely quiet studio environment.

Having said that pro gear goes bad pretty quickly if it's being stored without use. The hissing is fixable by an authorized electrician replacing the capacitors. It's not even that expensive, especially if you have the skill to do it yourself. Caps cost a couple of bucks.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
It's kind of funny that you're making a wild generalization (that is you have no way to prove it) in the same post where you claim that other people are doing the same.
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My post was based on decades of experience on high-end and pro audio gear. There was nothing general about it.

If they hiss loudly, they're 99% likely defective. The 1% falls for the 'pro gear' not actually being pro level or your hearing being unnaturally sensitive.

I have heard regular hi-fi amps hiss and I have heard pro gear hiss. I have had to get caps replaced on stage performance speakers, too. Before the cap job they hissed so loud I could hear it outdoors and meters away. After the cap job they were so quiet that you had to stick your ear next to the drivers to hear it. The speakers were stored unpowered only for 1,5-2 years which was enough to make them go bad. You can easily find a pair of LSR:s from a retailer that doesn't sell them that much that have been sitting in storage for years.
 
Should be a non-issue if a balanced connection is used and the gain/output is not set too high.
 
B00nie said:
Studio monitors are pro gear. I doubt they'd be hissing annoyingly by design as they're designed to be used in an extremely quiet studio environment.

Having said that pro gear goes bad pretty quickly if it's being stored without use. The hissing is fixable by an authorized electrician replacing the capacitors. It's not even that expensive, especially if you have the skill to do it yourself. Caps cost a couple of bucks.
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Well two things relating to that. One is, not the cheap ones. They are designed for little home studios. JBL isn't going after the pro studio market with their 305s. They have much, much more expensive speakers for that sort of thing. These are for little home project studios that want something cheap. The other is that studios are often not as quiet as you'd imagine. I mean the control room is usually well acoustically insulated, but you'd be surprised at the places that have hiss or hum in their gear and treat it as just something normal.
 
B00nie said:
My post was based on decades of experience on high-end and pro audio gear. There was nothing general about it.

If they hiss loudly, they're 99% likely defective. The 1% falls for the 'pro gear' not actually being pro level or your hearing being unnaturally sensitive.

I have heard regular hi-fi amps hiss and I have heard pro gear hiss. I have had to get caps replaced on stage performance speakers, too. Before the cap job they hissed so loud I could hear it outdoors and meters away. After the cap job they were so quiet that you had to stick your ear next to the drivers to hear it. The speakers were stored unpowered only for 1,5-2 years which was enough to make them go bad. You can easily find a pair of LSR:s from a retailer that doesn't sell them that much that have been sitting in storage for years.
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No, there was quite a bit general about it. It's your impressions stretched out to represent the rest of humanity. I mean "decades of experience with high end gear" isn't a relevant point of resolution for this type of discussion. The question here is whether simple biological variation (genetic, age related, both, etc) in human ears is enough to cause some people to be much more sensitive to hiss than others, and whether all systems in reality hiss about the same. You vaguely saying that you alone have heard all of this audio gear tells us nothing because you are just one sample. I've linked a post from a person that went around to various shops sampling everything up to 10k+ speakers while hearing hiss from pretty much all of them. Of course that doesn't tell much without knowing what exactly he sampled, but that's also about as much info as you're providing. I know you have a lot of pride because you've been in the audiophile world for a lot longer than most people (and have likely put quite a bit of money down on it), but try not to let that color everything, especially your comments in discussions where it isn't even a relevant point of discussion.

As far as age, these speakers were bought from Amazon. One of the largest and likely fastest moving retailers in the world. I would venture to guess that due to all of the online buzz about them, and considering that they're a very budget friendly line (relatively speaking), Amazon's stock of these is quite fast moving. That, and they were first available at Amazon August 1, 2013. That's just a little over 2 years ago. Unless all of the stock was delivered pretty much at once, it's literally impossible for these speakers to be over 1.5-2 years old.


Putting that aside, I want to try out those Vanatoo's really bad, but Amazon is dragging their feet with my JBL refund. Really dragging their feet. =\
 
You're not taking into account that Harman International has a warehouse and there's also probably a distributor's warehouse. Those could've been manufactured in 2013 and sat until 2015 in Harman's warehouse or the distributor's warehouse before Amazon received them for you to buy. Hell those could be even older than 2013 since it takes time to accumulate enough stock for the projected release date.
 
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|Tch0rT| said:
You're not taking into account that Harman International has a warehouse and there's also probably a distributor's warehouse. Those could've been manufactured in 2013 and sat until 2015 in Harman's warehouse or the distributor's warehouse before Amazon received them for you to buy. Hell those could be even older than 2013 since it takes time to accumulate enough stock for the projected release date.
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If that was the case, considering this is over two years later from when they were released at this point, that means that not just my speakers, but anyone that has bought their speakers within well over the past half year has had speakers that are at least 1.5+ years old. Supposing that the cutoff for this degradation is around that period (possibly +0.5 years), that's a HUGE batch of speakers that people aren't noticing flaws with. If your possibility holds true then that means that everyone that bought these and has not rated them harshly and then returned them has crap for ears or enough variation in sensitivity in that frequency range of hearing such that they can't even tell that their studio monitors are hissing so much that they're practically defective. Which would be an inconclusive result as far as organic variations are concerned anyway.

I did check on Amazon, and the ratings have not changed in the past few months. I'll say it's unlikely that they would still be getting high ratings on Amazon if all of the sudden every speaker past a certain point was dying off. I mean hell like I said, it doesn't make sense to literally manufacture every speaker you'll sell for the next two years right off the bat anyway. How did they know this was going to be that big of a hit and review that well? None of this makes any sense. You wouldn't make two years worth of product unless you had a crystal ball or a hell of a lot of confidence.
 
I'm guessing you've never worked in manufacturing. Who knows how long all the individual parts that make of these speakers, amps, and crossover have been sitting in a box in some warehouse somewhere waiting to be used. The parts are made in batches. Sometimes bad parts get made and put in with good parts and stuff gets out. Also there's a certain tolerance of +/- that each part is allowed to have which means the same model of something may preform slightly different than another despite being the same model and should theoretically have the same specs, then add in on top of that every part that makes up a product can vary by X percentage due to tolerance. They don't QC every piece that leaves the factory, they only QC every X many parts out of each batch etc. While it's improbable you happened to get 2 defective speakers it's not impossible. FWIW I think my LSR310S came from the factory with the wrong gain settings, no matter the settings I was never able to get it to play right with non pro products and their gain structure (my LSR305's were fine), there just wasn't enough gain to get it to play loud enough. A cheap pro mixer fixed it (also made my connections balanced FTMFW) cuz I didn't feel like dealing with shipping that heavy ass thing back to Zzounds. Probably one of the reasons why the LSR 3 series are so cheap is the QC sampling is much more spread out than their more expensive products.
 
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|Tch0rT| said:
I'm guessing you've never worked in manufacturing. Who knows how long all the individual parts that make of these speakers, amps, and crossover have been sitting in a box in some warehouse somewhere waiting to be used. The parts are made in batches. Sometimes bad parts get made and put in with good parts and stuff gets out. Also there's a certain tolerance of +/- that each part is allowed to have which means the same model of something may preform slightly different than another despite being the same model and should theoretically have the same specs, then add in on top of that every part that makes up a product can vary by X percentage due to tolerance. They don't QC every piece that leaves the factory, they only QC every X many parts out of each batch etc. While it's improbable you happened to get 2 defective speakers it's not impossible. FWIW I think my LSR310S came from the factory with the wrong gain settings, no matter the settings I was never able to get it to play right with non pro products and their gain structure (my LSR305's were fine), there just wasn't enough gain to get it to play loud enough. A cheap pro mixer fixed it (also made my connections balanced FTMFW) cuz I didn't feel like dealing with shipping that heavy ass thing back to Zzounds. Probably one of the reasons why the LSR 3 series are so cheap is the QC sampling is much more spread out than their more expensive products.
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If you're talking about +/-% (usually ~5 in the labs I went to) tolerances, I've had to perform all kinds of statistical analyses on theoretical circuits comprised of said parts, as well as actually build them and observe their effects on various filters. That was part of my coursework. It certainly does make a difference (-3dB points being off and such). I think part of the reason for nth order filtering circuits is redundancy anyway. It depends on what tolerances they supplied, but the problem is that's horribly chaotic. From what I've seen, even among fairly low deviation tolerances, there can be an easily observable deviations in filter cutoff points, voltages measured at various points, etc. If that's enough to cause easily audible (identical) hiss in a set of two unrelated speakers, that's pretty bad, because it should be easily observable in almost every batch...

That and we're not talking about manufacturing tolerances (capacitance differences), but actual capacitor failure as being the cause. Mind you, I'm not saying that what you imply is impossible, but I"m just saying that it's unlikely to me. Two separate speakers from different batches experiencing the exact same issue, with all of the variables involved? Hard to believe. But I don't work in manufacturing. Assuming your tone, I suppose you do.

I mean we can't really comment without seeing how they work internally anyway, so it's kind of a moot point right now. This could be resolved somewhat easily... has anyone seen someone that had a pair of hissing JBL LSR305's and then returned them (perhaps even multiple times) and eventually gotten a pair that they claim had none? A few corroborations would be nice, too.
 
I used to work in manufacturing about 15 years ago. Different industry than audio but a lot of the principles are the same since it's mass production. I made parts of wire frames for vehicle seats, once we received a bad batch of metal wire from a supplier but they didn't know about it for some time. I had to go back through every part I made that was still in inventory looking for hairline fractures. Sucked hard. So much lost time and money (at least for the company I worked for) to something that could've been avoided if the supplier had caught it first. I wouldn't be surprised if easier and cheaper for Harman just to replace the sets like yours and the OP's and hope it's not another bad set. I've only read of 3 instances of people complaining of the hiss, the OP's, yours, and one review I found when I was researching them (that guy claims he replaced a set and it had the same problem). Stuff like that happens in manufacturing all the time, consumers just don't really hear about it unless it's an epidemic like the original Xbox 360's or the ~2007 - 2010 DLP HDTV's that had defective Texas Instruments chips that caused white dots.

You're going with the Vanatoo Transparent One's as a replacement aren't you? Mark Henninger, one of the editors over at AVSforum liked them:
http://www.avsforum.com/vanatoo-transparent-one-powered-speaker-system-review/
 
Yes it makes no sense whatsoever that studio gear would have a hiss so loud that it becomes an issue. Studios are silent and the users are audio pros.

People tend to have all sorts of prejudice against active speakers for some reason.
 
|Tch0rT| said:
I used to work in manufacturing about 15 years ago. Different industry than audio but a lot of the principles are the same since it's mass production. I made parts of wire frames for vehicle seats, once we received a bad batch of metal wire from a supplier but they didn't know about it for some time. I had to go back through every part I made that was still in inventory looking for hairline fractures. Sucked hard. So much lost time and money (at least for the company I worked for) to something that could've been avoided if the supplier had caught it first. I wouldn't be surprised if easier and cheaper for Harman just to replace the sets like yours and the OP's and hope it's not another bad set. I've only read of 3 instances of people complaining of the hiss, the OP's, yours, and one review I found when I was researching them (that guy claims he replaced a set and it had the same problem). Stuff like that happens in manufacturing all the time, consumers just don't really hear about it unless it's an epidemic like the original Xbox 360's or the ~2007 - 2010 DLP HDTV's that had defective Texas Instruments chips that caused white dots.

You're going with the Vanatoo Transparent One's as a replacement aren't you? Mark Henninger, one of the editors over at AVSforum liked them:
http://www.avsforum.com/vanatoo-transparent-one-powered-speaker-system-review/
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Honestly I don't know, discussing these hypothetical reasons is pointless right now. I've already returned them and I just now ordered the Vanatoo speakers. And yeah, I know the Vanatoo's are well reviewed by... well pretty much everyone that tried them. On Amazon, they're holding on to a pretty rock-steady 5 star rating. Almost every professional reviewer has exalted them quite highly. So, I'm gonna give them a shot at least. And trust me I won't let peoples' impressions color my rating. I never do. I almost always go for the contrarian approach anyway, when I first get items. I'm a critic to a fault.

As for the LSR305's... I have a few Guitar Centers nearby. At some point I think I will try to find one that has these and see if I can run some more tests on any floor models they have (if they have any...). That's about all I can really think of. Considering the hassle of shipping these things back and forth, I'm not terribly eager.

B00nie said:
Yes it makes no sense whatsoever that studio gear would have a hiss so loud that it becomes an issue. Studios are silent and the users are audio pros.

People tend to have all sorts of prejudice against active speakers for some reason.
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This might sound pretentious, but generally speaking I try to approach everything (especially products) without prejudice... that being said I had no expectations going in when I got the JBL's anyway. It was just an impulse try. The sound was good but it was annoying to set them up so that they wouldn't get noise from the common ground from any outlet or UPS that the PC source was connected to. But okay I dealt with that. Then, I realized they hissed constantly regardless. And then just couldn't take it eventually. This is purely based on observation, not some observation colored on preconception. Like I said at some point I will probably try out a pair in store, but I don't know if this state has many high end audio shops. =| I know Guitar Center may carry them but it's complicated to try to figure out how to say "hey can I hear these..." without the projected answer being "no, just buy them..."
 
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Yes don't jump into conclusions. There's no reason to avoid active monitors. While it's true they generally have cheaper amp stages than hi-fi gear, that's only because their amps are custom tuned to drive only the driver they need to drive. That includes overload protections etc. that you can't achieve with passive speakers.
 
I think you confuse specific problems with "prejudice" against active speakers. My talk about the Sceptres is not theoretical. I saw some mention of the noise online, but decided to give them a try. I bought a pair and set them up in my home studio. They sounded good, but no better than my MTS-01s really, and they had hiss at idle, even when I turned the gain all the way down and disconnected the source. So, back they went.

They weren't defective either, the ones I bought from them were the ones they were using for testing, so they had already used them in their shop regularly.

Now maybe somehow every person who complained got bad set, but I kinda doubt it. I think some people just have quiet rooms, and some people are very fussy (I am extremely fussy).

I don't hate active monitors, but I am realistic that not all of them are good.
 
These Vanatoo speakers have literally 0 hiss that I could detect thus far, and they sound nothing short of amazing. I expected from the reports of their ability to produce bass, that the top range would be sacrificed... but no. David Garrett's violin comes through remarkably clearly. They sound quite amazing.

Plus, hookup terribly easy. I hooked them into the same power jack as everything else, with one very normal cable (the type you would use for a console) and then got a 5$ mediabridge USB cable and hooked them into a USB port. Wham, excellent sound flowing out.

Plus they're smaller than the JBL's and they come with grills. And the tweeters have some protection in front of them, unlike with the JBL's where I was kind of worried due to the material of the dome that I would poke them out. Then, the woofer uses a metal so it's pretty durable anyway. Either way, I'm happy they come with grills.

Overall pretty satisfied. They are a wee bit expensive, but the overall package is pretty interesting. DAC, AMP, and speaker... all in one package... all tuned to work together.
 
Thanks for the update on the Vanatoos.

If I'm reading you right, the JBLs give a lot of the sound quality for much less money but cut a number of practical corners in the process. Seems like both products have their place, and the Vanatoos should be heard by people who can justify the price.
 
My electrostatic panels sometimes hiss for minutes when I turn the power on (they burn off the dust after being out of country for example). I guess I'm not fussy :D
 
HammerSandwich said:
Thanks for the update on the Vanatoos.

If I'm reading you right, the JBLs give a lot of the sound quality for much less money but cut a number of practical corners in the process. Seems like both products have their place, and the Vanatoos should be heard by people who can justify the price.
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The Vanatoo' are definitely more oriented towards casual listening at the desk. The JBL' (while simple to hook up: all you need is a TRS splitter cable to 3.5mm), will reflect what they're connected to. A cheap, low quality on-board vs DAC/soundcard, etc. The JBL' also put out more volume and power than the Vanatoo'. Each speaker has two amps, vs one built into one speaker for the entire setup (Vanatoo and similar. premium multimedia speakers)

In regards to price, I find it strange that Vanatoo has the "competing" JBL' listed at $499 on their site.

http://www.vanatoo.com/best-in-class#.VnbjKRWDFBc

Even on the worst day, I've never seen them over $300.
 
heflys20 said:
In regards to price, I find it strange that Vanatoo has the "competing" JBL' listed at $499 on their site.
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Vanatoo also says the LSR305 is WAY bigger than reality. Typical comparison chart, i.e., "We're not responsible for typos."
 
heflys20 said:
The Vanatoo' are definitely more oriented towards casual listening at the desk. The JBL' (while simple to hook up: all you need is a TRS splitter cable to 3.5mm), will reflect what they're connected to. A cheap, low quality on-board vs DAC/soundcard, etc. The JBL' also put out more volume and power than the Vanatoo'. Each speaker has two amps, vs one built into one speaker for the entire setup (Vanatoo and similar. premium multimedia speakers)

In regards to price, I find it strange that Vanatoo has the "competing" JBL' listed at $499 on their site.

http://www.vanatoo.com/best-in-class#.VnbjKRWDFBc

Even on the worst day, I've never seen them over $300.
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Are you basing this all on theory? Because that isn't quite true.The Vanatoo speakers can get quite loud, and it's more than enough for near field. They also put out more (and better) bass than the JBL speakers by far.

As far as monitoring goes? Who the hell knows. I mean we keep talking about all of these studio monitors, but how many of us are actually professionals in the music field? What do those people actually use? Is it these? I know if I was one of those professionals, I wouldn't be using these JBL's if they hissed like that. Hell I wouldn't even be using speakers. I would be using a pair of good earphones. As far as simple sound quality goes, nothing I have tried has trumped my Beyer T1's paired with an O2 DAC/AMP (although, I don't like how much sibilance these T1's have... I need to do some DSP on that treble one of these days; there are too many poor recordings out there in the world). That being said, these Vanatoos do beat even those earphones in some ways, especially on the low end. The sound is much more "full". It's difficult to explain.

The JBL's were clear, I will give them that. If they didn't hiss to the point where I could hear them from 4 feet away, I would definitely not have returned them because they were a decent value. Again, for comparing sound quality between the two, I would have to rely on memory as I do not have the JBL's anymore. Memory is unreliable. I would say that these do definitely sound better for listening. They actually got me to get up and move to the beat a few times. What I really like is how the knobs on the back of these actually adjusts the internal DSP, too. They're not fake EQ like on some amps. I did a treble bump on mine and they did just that. They bumped the treble with no fuss and it all melded excellently, just with a slight bump to the high end like I wanted. And geez when I turn up the bass you can see the those little drivers just start shaking the whole desk. It's ridiculous...


Basically if you have 500$ to spend and you wanted the full desktop package... I would get these speakers in a heartbeat. They're fuss-free (and also importantly, hiss free...). You just plug them in, get a USB cable, and you're good to go. If you had 200$ and no more... well the JBL's are a good option, but you need a good source and possibly subwoofer for them to truly compete with these. I'm not going to comment on the hiss since my pair may have been defective. The bass on these speakers is impressive enough to where you really might not need a sub, especially for nearfield. But hooking a sub up is also extremely painless. As is hooking anything up. You can even get a bluetooth adapter and have these listen straight from bluetooth. These are basically a no-fuss, full package for 500$. I can't comment on the "sound vs value". That's purely subjective and such a method of evaluation goes roughly nowhere. You're either happy with the price you got the sound for, or you aren't. It's purely personal. For me 200->500$ just didn't mean much, and I'm satisfied with these for the price. For others, it might be too much to stomach.


As far as all of that marketing hogwash from Vanatoo? I have no idea. I didn't even look at their web site throughout all of this. I never once opened it up to look at their marketing hogwash.
I would say one of the main reviews that convinced me to get these is this one. I would give you people a full review myself, but these should tell you all that you need to know.
http://noaudiophile.com/Vanatoo_Transparent_One/
Interesting quote out of a few sections:
DSP correction

Like the $35,000 Meridian DSP7200 and my bargain basement $15,000 reference system these are DSP corrected. This is cutting edge technology that is just starting to trickle down to everyday setups like these speakers which use a parametric equalizer that is set at the factory, no you can't get in there and mess with it, but it corrects the speakers damn close to flat.. while I would have made a few changes to the initial settings these are pretty dead on to what I look for from tone out of the box, something so many speakers just can't get right because they are still working with limited driver selection, inductors, capacitors and resistors to correct for tone instead of a clean digital parametric equalizer.

If you are unhappy with the sound there are very capable bass and treble knobs that actually adjust the digital parametric EQ inside of the amp circuitry, so it's about as clean a tone control as you can get. The measurements for the tone controls look almost fake as it's a ultra clean slope that keeps everything nice and tidy as it raises or lowers sections of the graph.

Direct digital Amp

If this was a standard class d amp the signal would be converted from digital to analog using a DAC, then run through a series of op amps to buffer the signal and get it to the strength needed, then chop up its' analog input signal at some ridiculous sample rate to make the pulses for the actual amplifier section to build. This unit instead takes the digital signal and intelligently constructs the pulses directly, this has the effect of skipping the digital to analog conversion, op amps, and all of the stuff that would normally be messing up the signal with their own sound signature. Think of a DAC that can output 60 watts of power per channel right off of the chip without any op amps, that means that there is no delicate low level analog signal that would normally be susceptible to interference. You can see this kind of technology in NAD's top of the line $6,000 M2 direct digital amps. Because the amp chip wants a digital signal the analog input actually converts the input signal to digital... it's crazy mad insane, but the results are very nice when you skip the analog input and instead feed it digital directly.

Passive crossover/ Bridged balanced amplification

While many popular active speakers take the approach of using an extra amplifier for biamping the speaker, these do what I think is a very smart move and take advantage of the DSP and use a simple passive crossover at 2.5Khz using the extra amp channels to run in a bridged balanced configuration, feeding the speakers along with a positive signal a true negative signal instead of a ground. This has the effect of removing any interference from the high level analog signal as it gets canceled out at the voice coil of the speaker.

All of this put together means you are left with an ultra clean system that when fed a digital signal you can put your ear literally on the tweeter and crank the volume all the way up and not hear anything, no hiss, no hum, no anything.
Click to expand...
If you look at his rankings, he has the JBL's right below them, but the vanatoo's are above them nonetheless.
http://noaudiophile.com/Recommendations/
Most reviews I have read has corroborated this. I don't think there has been a single article that has rated these poorly, and on Amazon they have been keeping a full 5 star rating. For desktop nearfield listening as an alternative to when I don't want to use my earphones, these are probably the endgame speaker for me. Well, they fill the room pretty well, too, considering their small size.

I think there are also a lot of non-critical listeners out there that just have money to blow on high end gear, too, as far as the bad reviews for these on Amazon go. I notice some reviewers keep saying that some set of speakers aren't as good as their old pair of "insert something here". Whereas the reality is they're probably simply used to that speaker's sound signature and they're not open minded enough to adjust to the new set. Frankly that's probably what "burn in" actually is, too. Burn in isn't the new speakers flexing all of their muscle and sounding better, it's you becoming acclimated to a foreign sound signature and frequency response. I'm probably not immune to such affects myself.

Edit: One random note:... these are really heavy for their small size. Like, I thought that the passive speaker would be fairly light, but no... it's pretty heavy. Like my Paradigm Atom V3's are feathers by comparison.

Edit 2: Another note: You can tell that the company has some confidence behind these, because they offer a 30 day audition and a 3 year warranty. Where you can basically return them for any reason within the 30 day period through Amazon. Not just defects. Any reason.

Edit 3:... You know in that review I just noticed he did the same thing I did:... bumped the treble up a notch. Lol.
 
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StoleMyOwnCar said:
What do those people actually use?
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It actually turns out to vary a TON. Pros use a wide variety of speakers, there is little consensus, and a surprising number of them drink the kool-aid on speaker wire and such.

You find all kinds of active monitors from cheap to really expensive, both small desk mounted and huge in-wall ones. You also find a bunch of different kind of passive speakers in use. A number of studios will have a mix of kinds of speakers.

Really is depends on the taste of the engineer and the budget of the operation. There doesn't seem to be an accepted "right" answer.
 
Genelec is popular on higher end studios. Most studios have many speakers, good ones for mastering and Yamaha etc. cuckoo-boxes to simulate how the sound will play in a typical home stereo.

Unfortunately they have to make compromises on many recordings, they need to sound ok on 5 dollar boxes so they sacrifice true quality.
 
Are you basing this all on theory? Because that isn't quite true.The Vanatoo speakers can get quite loud, and it's more than enough for near field.
Click to expand...

You seem slightly defensive. I'm not bashing the Vanatoo' at all. All I said is the JBL' are the louder speaker, and this isn't based on theory. The JBL' put out more power and SPL (95 for the Vanatoo vs 108 for the JBL').

This is a good read:

http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/tech-tips/tech-tip-wattage-speaker-efficiency-amplifier-loudness

Noaudiophile (the guy whose review you have linked to) has also stated countless times that the JBL' are louder.

As far as monitoring goes? Who the hell knows. I mean we keep talking about all of these studio monitors, but how many of us are actually professionals in the music field? What do those people actually use? Is it these? I know if I was one of those professionals, I wouldn't be using these JBL's if they hissed like that. Hell I wouldn't even be using speakers. I would be using a pair of good earphones.
Click to expand...

Monitoring? I didn't bring up. If you're referencing to my comment about them being more oriented towards "casual listening" at the desk/near-field, they are more suited towards that goal. They have more connection options, one speaker is passive and they don't get ridiculously loud. In regards to engineers, they use a variety of tools and not just one pair of speakers. Earphones have different imaging than loud speakers, which is why speakers are also used in professional environments.


They also put out more (and better) bass than the JBL speakers by far.
Click to expand...

Are you going on memory?



Basically if you have 500$ to spend and you wanted the full desktop package... I would get these speakers in a heartbeat. They're fuss-free (and also importantly, hiss free...). You just plug them in, get a USB cable, and you're good to go. If you had 200$ and no more... well the JBL's are a good option, but you need a good source and possibly subwoofer for them to truly compete with these.
Click to expand...

The JBL' need a subwoofer to compete with the Vanatoo'? Here's the frequency response comparison between the two aforementioned speakers. From the same reviewer (Noaudiophile).

JBL:

JBL_LSR_305_Random.jpg


Vanatoo

3oclockbasscouch.png


Maybe a 3hz-5hz difference, with neither of them competing with a dedicated sub.



As far as all of that marketing hogwash from Vanatoo? I have no idea. I didn't even look at their web site throughout all of this. I never once opened it up to look at their marketing hogwash.
I would say one of the main reviews that convinced me to get these is this one. I would give you people a full review myself, but these should tell you all that you need to know.
http://noaudiophile.com/Vanatoo_Transparent_One/
Interesting quote out of a few sections:

If you look at his rankings, he has the JBL's right below them, but the vanatoo's are above them nonetheless.
http://noaudiophile.com/Recommendations/
Most reviews I have read has corroborated this. I don't think there has been a single article that has rated these poorly, and on Amazon they have been keeping a full 5 star rating. For desktop nearfield listening as an alternative to when I don't want to use my earphones, these are probably the endgame speaker for me. Well, they fill the room pretty well, too, considering their small size.

I think there are also a lot of non-critical listeners out there that just have money to blow on high end gear, too, as far as the bad reviews for these on Amazon go. I notice some reviewers keep saying that some set of speakers aren't as good as their old pair of "insert something here". Whereas the reality is they're probably simply used to that speaker's sound signature and they're not open minded enough to adjust to the new set. Frankly that's probably what "burn in" actually is, too. Burn in isn't the new speakers flexing all of their muscle and sounding better, it's you becoming acclimated to a foreign sound signature and frequency response. I'm probably not immune to such affects myself.
Click to expand...

I think we get that you and others like the speakers, no need to beat us over the head about how great they are. LOL. There's also only a .1% review score difference between the JBL and Vanatoo speakers on Amazon, with the JBL' having substantially more reviews; but I pointlessly digress. I assume you brought it up to reinforce their inferiority to the Vanatoo'. The cheaper JBL' also have a better warranty: 5 years transferable vs 3 years non-transferable for the Vanatoo'.

I also never mentioned marketing "hogwash," but the weirdness of pricing on "competing" speakers. I was also responding to someone else. (Shrugs)

Anyway, glad you love your new speakers.
 
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You have to remember that marketing is marketing. Vanatoo is not going to show their products in a negative manner and not all online reviewers are honest either, they get paid for reviews.

For example the talk of having a passive crossover vs biamp is total hogwash. It's a totally gimped down solution with the sole purpose of saving costs. Active crossovers are always way superior to passive ones.
 
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