Bottlenecking a 4870?

Casper312

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o god, so has the op responded to see what hes gonna do? Judging by the previous post, some members actually think that the single core p4 is not a problem or im i blind and lazy?
 

xbob04

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Sadly you are not blind or lazy, someone is actually suggesting just that.
 

Bigjmaster18

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I Am most likely going to upgrade my mobo/cpu/ram and just wait out on the video card until the new Gtx 295 comes out so the 4870 will go lower in price.

I am so tempted to get that new Core i7 cpu but its so expensive
 

Casper312

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The i7 is nice, but all you need is a trusty c2d or a quad, and thats all you will need imo

My buddy bought a 4870 512mb for xmas, im a tell him to bring it over and ill drag my main rigs psu to my dell and post the results so the people that said it will work fine, and watch them dig their heads in the snow :p

If im impressed i might go 4870, sad thing is im debating on it cause it matches my color scheme, god im dumb :confused:
 

alg7_munif

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Sorry for the late reply because I just did some benchmarking myself. I'm using the system in sig but I lowered the CPU to 1.6GHz and disabled the other 3 cores.



I tried the Bioshock demo (I didn't bought the game, I already have it on the 360). The game is certainly playable with average fps around 40-50 fps, min fps no lower than 30fps and I also managed to reach the framerate cap of 60fps in some parts of the game and during the cutscenes.



Just look at the cpu utilization :p



I'm testing a few more games right now. Be right back.

Edit: Oblivion is also playable but it needs some tweakings because the fps is not as consistent as Bioshock, sometimes it can go up to 90+fps and sometimes it drops to 20+fps. Most of the time it is around 30-40fps.




I don't know how well is the fps outside because I just installed the game and didn't have a save file for outside.

Edit 2: GTR Evolution got a very high fps but I don't think the game is playable because as soon as the CPU is used during collision, the fps would drop to around 10fps:




GRID is also unplayable but the fps is consistently between 20-30fps.

My verdict: You will definitely benefit from a faster GPU than the 7950GT but a HD 4870 would definitely be held back by the 3.0GHz P4 especially in multithreaded games. In single threaded games, you can still get a playable frame rate with a faster GPU but more games now are taking advantage of the multi core CPU. The best solution would be to upgrade both the GPU and CPU but if only one component can be upgraded for now, I would choose the GPU first and try to get a faster CPU as soon as possible after that.
 

grimreeferx09

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it has hyperthreading, so in a multithreaded game, its as fast as a single core athlon64 (ie, really slow).
i agree with cannon though, i think it will be too slow. as a cheap and easy solution, buying a 4850 might work, but it wont work in the long term.
minimum requirements of newer games call for more than double the cpu power than he has

honestly, at this point, build a new pc. theres not alot worth salvaging out of your current one.
 

alg7_munif

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yep and the numbers I got are worse than running an 8600gt in my system. in most situations a gtx260 with an outdated single core cpu will lose to a wimpy 8600gt and core 2 duo in modern games especially the newest ones. the op will likely gain zero improvement by going with a 4870 and keeping his single core P4.

How about 8600GT + 1.8GHz Core 2 vs GTX 260 + 1.8GHz Core 2? I'm sure that you will see an improvement with the GTX 260 over the 8600GT.
 

cannondale06

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How about 8600GT + 1.8GHz Core 2 vs GTX 260 + 1.8GHz Core 2? I'm sure that you will see an improvement with the GTX 260 over the 8600GT.
well with dual cores then yeah the gtx260 would be able to perform in those newer games much better. the problem was that with a slow single core turning down the graphics settings just didnt really help the gtx260s framerate. I laughed during the Crysis benchmark when I couldnt even hit more than 6 or 7 fps with the gtx260 and single core.
 

alg7_munif

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well with dual cores then yeah the gtx260 would be able to perform in those newer games much better. the problem was that with a slow single core turning down the graphics settings just didnt really help the gtx260s framerate.

Well, you are testing with the three most CPU intensive games. Bioshock did well with a single core 1.6GHz Core 2, Oblivion is also playable. Racing games use a lot of CPU power too for the physics. Most of the newer games are cpu intensive as well but there are still tons of games which are single threaded games.
 

cannondale06

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Well, you are testing with the three most CPU intensive games. Bioshock did well with a single core 1.6GHz Core 2, Oblivion is also playable. Racing games use a lot of CPU power too for the physics. Most of the newer games are cpu intensive as well but there are still tons of games which are single threaded games.
yeah we both had valid points but I think going forward that games will only get more cpu intensive. the OP really needs both a gpu and cpu if newer games are his concern. upgrading one without the other will not be of much benefit. looking at GTA 4 it makes my e8500 look quite sad compared to the quad cores so it seems like trying to stay on top of things is futile. lol
 

RamonGTP

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I haven't read all 5 pages, but anyone who thinks the CPU doesn't play an important roll has either always used a slow CPU or always used a fast one and has never actually seen the difference one makes. And to the guy who was comparing an X2 at 2.4GHz to a P4 3.0GHz... Why? There is no comparison, even ONE of the Athlon cores is WAY more powerful than a 3GHz P4. So your example of not noticing a difference with a CPU upgrades means absolutly nothing in this context. There is a very clear and easy to understand difference here. You had enough processing power, he doesn't. Period.

Here is the problem. There are very few in-game settings that affect how much processing power is needed. So if you're being slowed down by your CPU, you'll always be slowed down. Turnning the settings down will have a very minimal effect. You can almost always turn down settings to accomidate the GPU you're running. So if you have a very outdated CPU (which the OP has) you're much better off upgrading that first.
 

rennyf77

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maybe this will help the op out. these tests were performed in xp with a 4870 512 at 19x12. in crysis, everything is at high except for textures, particles, and volumetric along with 16x aniso forced from the driver. in cod4 everything is maxed out including 8x aa forced from the driver. in stalker clear sky all dx9 settings were maxed out except for aa with sun quality, sun rays, and ssao at low. according to [H] articles, these are pretty much the highest playable settings for these games in dx10 with a fast core2 cpu.

untitled-3.jpg
 

alg7_munif

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I guess that some people just can't read, what I said is not that the GPU won't be bottleneck by the CPU. What I'm trying to say is, the OP has a slow CPU and also a slower GPU, the OP will gain more performance in games @1920x1200 with a faster GPU than a faster CPU but he won't get the full performance from a HD4870 using his CPU.

The best thing is upgrading both CPU and GPU but if it is only possible to upgrade one component first and the other one later, upgrading to a faster GPU would give him a better performance increase than just upgrading the CPU alone. Even with a faster GPU, he won't get to use the same settings in games like people with a faster CPU but he will still get an improvement over his 7950GT. A faster CPU isn't going to turn a 7950GT into a 8800gtx.
 

evolucion8

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A faster CPU isn't going to turn a 7950GT into a 8800gtx.

But a slower CPU can turn down the HD 4870 into 7950GT. There was no difference in performance between the HD 3850 and the X1950XT when I had my P4EE, no matter how much eye candy I put on screen, a faster GPU will give you more eye candy, but the CPU has the biggest impact in FPS except in very GPU bound games which aren't too many.
 

alg7_munif

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But a slower CPU can turn down the HD 4870 into 7950GT. There was no difference in performance between the HD 3850 and the X1950XT when I had my P4EE, no matter how much eye candy I put on screen, a faster GPU will give you more eye candy, but the CPU has the biggest impact in FPS except in very GPU bound games which aren't too many.

It won't turn down the HD 4870 into 7950GT but maybe into a 8800GTS 320MB.

Try running the X1950XT using the same settings as the HD 3850, will you get a higher fps on the HD 3850 when compared to the X 1950XT? At 1920x1200, almost every game is GPU bound with a 7950GT.
 

DWade

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Turn down the resolution. I got a 1920x1200 resolution monitor and games look just as good at 1680x1050.
You won't notice a difference when playing the game. If you take a screenshot and compare then you
might notice something I guess.
 

RamonGTP

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I guess that some people just can't read, what I said is not that the GPU won't be bottleneck by the CPU. What I'm trying to say is, the OP has a slow CPU and also a slower GPU, the OP will gain more performance in games @1920x1200 with a faster GPU than a faster CPU but he won't get the full performance from a HD4870 using his CPU.

The best thing is upgrading both CPU and GPU but if it is only possible to upgrade one component first and the other one later, upgrading to a faster GPU would give him a better performance increase than just upgrading the CPU alone. Even with a faster GPU, he won't get to use the same settings in games like people with a faster CPU but he will still get an improvement over his 7950GT. A faster CPU isn't going to turn a 7950GT into a 8800gtx.

And a faster GPU won't turn his P4 into a C2D either, so whats your point? Settings can be changed to accomidate a GPU. With a faster CPU HE CAN get his games to run adequately even with a 7950. With just a faster GPU, many games still won't run well. You don't HAVE to play at 19x12 but you do HAVE to have enough processing power to run the games.

If he wants the game to look prettier but still run like shit, by all means he should get a new GPU instead.
 

TehNomad

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I was in a similar situation to you a week ago. P4 2.8GHz, 1.5GB DDR RAM, 8600GT from an old HP prebuilt (the case was microatx =p).

I recently built a system with an E8400, 4GB RAM, PCP&C Silencer 610W and an Asus P5Q Pro, reusing my 8600GT, hard drive, and dvd drive. Games are actually playable at 1680x1050 now, and I'm quite happy with the upgrade (which was about $300-$400, but you can get an E7200, cheaper mobo and PSU, and less RAM)
 

Bigjmaster18

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Thank you everyone for your input and time concerning my situation. I really appreciate it!

I just bought

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017(q6600)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128359(Mobo)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122(ram)

im going to get an intermediary card from my friend for free since he got the 4870X2

My next question is pertaining swapping out the mobo/cpu/ram is it possible for me to do all that without reformatting?
 

alg7_munif

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Thank you everyone for your input and time concerning my situation. I really appreciate it!

I just bought

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017(q6600)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128359(Mobo)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122(ram)

im going to get an intermediary card from my friend for free since he got the 4870X2

My next question is pertaining swapping out the mobo/cpu/ram is it possible for me to do all that without reformatting?

Nice, but what did you buy actually? The best thing is to upgrade both the GPU and CPU. You need to reformat because you are upgrading from a single core to a multicore CPU. Your OS needs to be SMP ready to use the multi core CPU. There are ways to upgrade your system without reformating but the easiest way is by formatting. If your OS is not SMP ready, you will only see a single core.
 

Bigjmaster18

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I just bought a new mobo/cpu/ram specifically those in the links above and my friend will be giving me his 8800gtx in the meantime.

Also If i have two hard drives One with the OS and the other with all my games and movies and i reformat the one with the OS will I be able to plug the harddrive with all my games into my new build and it wont ask to format the drive before using it?
 

Casper312

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Nice, but what did you buy actually? The best thing is to upgrade both the GPU and CPU. You need to reformat because you are upgrading from a single core to a multicore CPU. Your OS needs to be SMP ready to use the multi core CPU. There are ways to upgrade your system without reformating but the easiest way is by formatting. If your OS is not SMP ready, you will only see a single core.

Copy the links and then remove the words he added, he got a q6600, 4gb of g.skill ram and a ud3r, Good choices :cool:

As for reformatting, yes u do. there might be a way to do it, but its gonna be more of a hassle to do so, just backup your data onto dvds or a mp3 player (i use my ipod).
 

Bigjmaster18

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Alright and my final question is if i should get windows Xp service pack 3 or Vista?

and is 64 bit reliable?


thanks
 

alg7_munif

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Nice, a jump from a single core to a quad core. You should add $15 more to get the P5Q, two PCI-E slots ftw. Vista 64 bit for the OS. What GPU are you getting?
 

Casper312

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Alright and my final question is if i should get windows Xp service pack 3 or Vista?

and is 64 bit reliable?


thanks

Vista but thats just me.

Nice, a jump from a single core to a quad core. You should add $15 more to get the P5Q, two PCI-E slots ftw. Vista 64 bit for the OS. What GPU are you getting?

There is no diff between the one he has and the p5q, Besides Xfire which in the case, the UD3P would be a good choice if he decides to open the option for xfire, then comes the choice between gigabyte and asus.

As he said in his post hes getting a 8800gtx loaned to him.
 

alg7_munif

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I missed his post, the OP would be blown away by the 8800GTX compared to the 7950GT especially on the new CPU, it is almost three times as fast as the 7950GT
 

Casper312

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Yup yup, keep us posted on how the rig performs and how happy you are when it arrives :cool:
 

Bigjmaster18

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Quick question guys

newegg said they are shipping my Q6600 as OEM. Does that mean it does not come with the heatsink/fan?
 

evolucion8

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Nice, but what did you buy actually? The best thing is to upgrade both the GPU and CPU. You need to reformat because you are upgrading from a single core to a multicore CPU. Your OS needs to be SMP ready to use the multi core CPU. There are ways to upgrade your system without reformating but the easiest way is by formatting. If your OS is not SMP ready, you will only see a single core.

Windows XP and beyond is always SMP ready, you can just swap CPU's and Windows will detect it and reinstall the proper drivers including the HAL and will automatically enable the new cores. I had to reformat when I swapped all components, it would reboot infinitely after the Windows Bar during boot.
 

evolucion8

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But in that link, the OP stated that he had ACPI disabled (APIC has 21, PIC only 15 IRQ's), that's why he had only 15 IRQ's, when I swapped my Pentium M to a Pentium 4 EE (P4 is a single core CPU but Windows still seeing it as a Dual Core CPU), it worked fine and never had any issues. Before I installed the Windows, I always made sure to have ACPI 2.0 enabled, so I can have up to 21 IRQ's
 

alg7_munif

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So WinXP is always SMP ready for you but it is not necessarily always SMP ready for others.
 

RamonGTP

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I've doen many single to multi core upgrades and have yet to need to do a reinstall of xp for it to work.

I do however recommend the OP does a clean install, but not becuase of the new CPU, but because of the new motherboard and chipset.
 

Bigjmaster18

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Ok so I am receiving my parts tomorrow and im just torn if i should go to Windows Xp Sp3 or Vista Ultimate 64 bit.

What do you guys think? Is it worth it to jump to Vista ultimate 64 bit?
 
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