Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner Paris Air Show Video, Now with Angles!

Terry Olaes

I Used to be the [H] News Guy
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
4,646
Many of you have probably seen the near-vertical takeoff video of the Boeing 787 "Dreamliner" earlier this week. If not, you're in luck because now you can see it in multiple angles on YouTube. Right now, it only works on desktop browsers though.

YouTube launched multiple camera angles as an experimental feature earlier this year, making the option available to select users. It uses an algorithm that syncs all the angles as you play the video, and you only have to either click on any of them or press their respective numbers on the keyboard to switch views.
 

Dr. Righteous

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,163
Often wondered if those airliners they do these air shows with are just empty shells. (no seats, etc). The lighter the better for the best thrust to weight ratio. But the fact you can nearly stand one on it's tail and accelerate up like a jet fighter is pretty darn impressive.

USA is still best at making big airplanes and big bombs. :D
 

draksia

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 16, 2000
Messages
7,944
Often wondered if those airliners they do these air shows with are just empty shells. (no seats, etc). The lighter the better for the best thrust to weight ratio. But the fact you can nearly stand one on it's tail and accelerate up like a jet fighter is pretty darn impressive.

USA is still best at making big airplanes and big bombs. :D

They probably are empty and they for sure don't have a full fuel load. On the 787-9 a full load of fuel weighs almost as much as the empty plane. 277k pounds for the empty plane and 223k for a full fuel load.
 

weebling1

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 31, 2002
Messages
2,233
...and it's a marketing show. They probably have full seats and interior done to spades. Companies want to know what they get for $ 100+ million
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
Often wondered if those airliners they do these air shows with are just empty shells. (no seats, etc). The lighter the better for the best thrust to weight ratio. But the fact you can nearly stand one on it's tail and accelerate up like a jet fighter is pretty darn impressive.

USA is still best at making big airplanes and big bombs. :D
No, this particular configuration was already rigged with seats since it was being used for a demonstration at the Paris Air Show. So the interior is fully done. The trick to this particular demo is that it's loaded with a minimal amount of fuel needed to complete the 8 minutes of flight time, no passengers, no cargo, taking off some safety measures, and a flight computer configuration set for an empty load. Then the plane on FBW will help allow the pilot to have more control in maneuverability.
 

Ducman69

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
10,542
Yup, I was going to say, I don't see how this is all that revolutionary, and its always been well known that a cargo plane is by design a super thin empty shell so that it can hold a crapton of overweight americans, luggage, and fuel.

So to me I just see a more refined front cockpit dual-engine tube on a standard mid thin big wing and old-school tail design with the same cruise speed as its predecessors... meh.

In the past, producing a plane without a tail fin would have been very unstable to fly in some circumstances, and too difficult for a human pilot to recover from, but these days we have computerized systems and backups to coordinate fly-by-wire commands into precise coordinated movements of the control surfaces... that is, when the pilot is even flying and not on auto-pilot.

NASA's double-bubble was kinda neat, as well as flying wing and tailless designs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0EUWaFyEY
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,047
The lighter the better for the best thrust to weight ratio. But the fact you can nearly stand one on it's tail and accelerate up like a jet fighter is pretty darn impressive.

That's what she said.
 

illram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
1,472
Who the hell would ever want to take off like that? Is there some sort of cargo application for such a vertical take off, like shorter runways or something?
 

Unexploded

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
265
Often wondered if those airliners they do these air shows with are just empty shells. (no seats, etc). The lighter the better for the best thrust to weight ratio. But the fact you can nearly stand one on it's tail and accelerate up like a jet fighter is pretty darn impressive.
:D

Impressive display for an airliner, but I think a lot of that perspective / camera angle. I'd be amazed if the actually angle of attack was 45 degrees, much less 90. Still looked pretty damn cool.
 

dave99

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
2,129
Who the hell would ever want to take off like that? Is there some sort of cargo application for such a vertical take off, like shorter runways or something?

I don't know, maybe everyone?

Airplane buyers are just like anyone else, they like seeing planes doing crazy things, even if they will never be used anywhere near that once in airliner service.
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
Who the hell would ever want to take off like that? Is there some sort of cargo application for such a vertical take off, like shorter runways or something?
It's a practice demo flight for the Paris Air Show 2015. They aren't loaded with anything except the pilots.
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
Impressive display for an airliner, but I think a lot of that perspective / camera angle. I'd be amazed if the actually angle of attack was 45 degrees, much less 90. Still looked pretty damn cool.
The AoA was in the 40-50 range. I can talk to someone on the test flight team to see what the AoA was on that specific practice flight.
 

Unexploded

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
265
The AoA was in the 40-50 range. I can talk to someone on the test flight team to see what the AoA was on that specific practice flight.

That seem much more believable and still really impressive for a plane that size.
 

illram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
1,472
It's a practice demo flight for the Paris Air Show 2015. They aren't loaded with anything except the pilots.

Yeah I know that. I guess I just see no practical purpose for engineering the plane to do that. Unless doing that is some sort of display of how well engineered or structurally sound the plane is or something.
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
Yeah I know that. I guess I just see no practical purpose for engineering the plane to do that. Unless doing that is some sort of display of how well engineered or structurally sound the plane is or something.

Because people like that stuff even if they'll never get to experience it themselves. Heck, Tex Johnson is famous for barrel rolling a prototype commercial airliner, the Dash 80.
 

Grahamkracka

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
1,052
Yeah I know that. I guess I just see no practical purpose for engineering the plane to do that. Unless doing that is some sort of display of how well engineered or structurally sound the plane is or something.

If you don't see the value in engineering a plane to accelerate to cruise speed/altitude as quickly and efficiently as possible...then I dunno what to tell you. The 787 is designed to be a more efficient plane than the 767 it replaces, and it achieves that goal. So I guess it's a good thing you weren't on that engineering team.
 

jojo69

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
10,901
that has to be a minimum fuel load

still, really impressive, plenty of planes 1/10th the size that won't do anything like that
 

Grahamkracka

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
1,052
NASA's double-bubble was kinda neat, as well as flying wing and tailless designs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0EUWaFyEY

Designing a flying wing that can hold hundreds of passengers, cargo, fuel, and all the other associated subsystems of commercial passenger transport without making it heavier and less aerodynamic than a conventional tube and wing design is actually quite difficult. Using composites throughout most of the aircraft can help with the weight, but there are plenty of drawbacks like cost and maintenance/repairs.
 

csgill75

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
126
It was a 30 degree AoA takeoff. I have no doubt that it can do a 90° climb however it would need quite a bit more airspeed to do that. I have seen at an airshow display a military version of the 757 do a almost vertical climb 80° to 6,000 ft. But it was at full power and at maximum airspeed and empty. It was impressive. :)
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
It was a 30 degree AoA takeoff. I have no doubt that it can do a 90° climb however it would need quite a bit more airspeed to do that. I have seen at an airshow display a military version of the 757 do a almost vertical climb 80° to 6,000 ft. But it was at full power and at maximum airspeed and empty. It was impressive. :)
Where's the source for that? Even the actual Paris Air Show demo shows a 40-50 AoA.
 

Grahamkracka

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
1,052
Though it should be noted when we are talking AoA, we are actually talking about ground angle. AoA is actually the angle of the airfoil of the aircraft relative to the motion of the fluid it's moving through.
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
I would honestly be surprised if it was greater than 30 AoA, which is already a very impressive number for a commercial airliner.
I'm already asking around what the AoA was for both the practice and flight demo's. Should find out next week. (Hint, I work for B).
 

Grahamkracka

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
1,052
I'm an aerospace engineer...and knowing how many aerospace firms operate, I seriously doubt your employer would permit anything beyond 30 degrees in any high performance demonstration. I might be capable of 45 for a very short period of time, but the last thing they need is a stalled aircraft that crashes at a demonstration.
 

Kaitian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
4,870
I'm an aerospace engineer...and knowing how many aerospace firms operate, I seriously doubt your employer would permit anything beyond 30 degrees in any high performance demonstration. I might be capable of 45 for a very short period of time, but the last thing they need is a stalled aircraft that crashes at a demonstration.
A number of B flights and test for the proving flights for both the 787-8 and 787-9 have allowed for higher angle of attacks. The policies regarding high-risk flights changed years ago at Farnborough 2012 when they put a 787-8 on a demonstration test. Prior to that, Boeing had a policy in place for over 2 decades prohibiting demonstration flights.
 

Grahamkracka

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
1,052
A number of B flights and test for the proving flights for both the 787-8 and 787-9 have allowed for higher angle of attacks. The policies regarding high-risk flights changed years ago at Farnborough 2012 when they put a 787-8 on a demonstration test. Prior to that, Boeing had a policy in place for over 2 decades prohibiting demonstration flights.

Testing and public demonstration are totally different things, only one of which you'd be willing to push the limits of the plane. Either way, it's an impressive aircraft.
 

Stanza33

Gawd
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
538
Whats the deal with the throttles?

In the steep banks left and right

Are they controlled from the wheel now? or is the planes smarts moving the controls back and forward automatically?

??
 

Zepher

[H]ipster Replacement
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
18,924
Whats the deal with the throttles?

In the steep banks left and right

Are they controlled from the wheel now? or is the planes smarts moving the controls back and forward automatically?

??

auto throttle was probably enabled.
 
Top