Blizzard Workers Share Salaries in Revolt Over Wage Disparities

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So I read another article about this and it’s mainly QA testers and CSR people who are upset about their pay. Well their job is something an untrained monkey can do and they work in an expensive area, what do they expect? If any developer making $100k+ is crying then they should absolutely relocate because there’s plenty of opportunities for them.

The problem with a lot of people in my experience is they choose to have multiple kids and other added expenses in life and expect their pay to rise to cover those changes and when it doesn’t, they start whining. I bet if you examined the finances of those crying at Blizzard they probably waste a lot of money.
 
kju1 said:
So how exactly do we give money to the wealthy? Cuz I am looking at my tax bill and so far this year I have paid more in taxes than the average American makes in a year. Id like some of this so called free cash.
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You're not wealthy enough. You need to be obscenely wealthy, enough that you can hide your billions in tax havens and claim "business loses" while making billions in profit and get millions of dollars in tax payer money as a refund.
 
Derangel said:
You're not wealthy enough. You need to be obscenely wealthy, enough that you can hide your billions in tax havens and claim "business loses" while making billions in profit and get millions of dollars in tax payer money as a refund.
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That is also not giving money away. A tax refund is a return of money that you paid in excess of your tax burden. You may disagree with "business loses" but I can tell you they are real and they happen. And the IRS absolutely investigates them to make sure they are real.

The problem isn't that they are "hiding" money - except in some illegal cases most are doing it LEGALLY. The problem is our tax system is fucked up. We should never be taxing on income, we should bee taxing on consumption of goods and services. Basic needs dont need to be taxed. But you want to buy a luxury item or have a maid to clean? Pay a tax. Buying that PS5? Pay a tax.

Income is a horrible taxation method. That will NEVER work right. No matter how much you try it.
 
undertaker2k8 said:
People seriously need to stop using 100k as a barometer, it is downright poverty level in the bay area. 250k is the new 100k for the coasts.
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Nonsense, you can easily survive in the bay on 100k. You can find an apt in the bay for $1500-2000/mo and drive 30 minutes to work or take BART. Food costs in the bay aren’t much different than they are here in the valley.
 
undertaker2k8 said:
Sure , from you. Average SFH is a mil, ever did the math on the monthly mortgage payment + utilities + food + incidentals, not to mention the crushing taxes?
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Why do they need a home in SF? Are you really that stupid? And yes I did the math and as I said, it’s easy to survive in the bay on $100k. It’s only when you think you deserve a million dollar home and other “incidentals” like you claim does reality distort.
 
5150Joker said:
Again pure bs.
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Not so much. We looked into moving to the bay area a couple of years ago. Our 1100sq 3bd 1.5ba home that I paid $87k for would cost us $700k there. That's a $3500-4000 per month compared to the $450/mo we pay now (not including escrow for taxes and insurance). Taxes, utilities, insurance, and transportation costs would be higher as well. We would be better off staying where are and taking a 50% pay cut.
 
This is pretty par for the course when it comes to corporate jobs though. Can't justify pay raises to retain talent because there is no process for the manager to simply ask for a raise for you, but an external candidate can basically state what they want and if it's within the salary range they'll get it. Often the only way to get market value at your current place is to leave and come back, and at that point why would you give a shit about a company that didn't care to retain you in the first place?

Outside of instances where your boss leaves and then headhunts you for their new place, loyalty will generally not get you anywhere salary-wise.
 
ryan_975 said:
Not so much. We looked into moving to the bay area a couple of years ago. Our 1100sq 3bd 1.5ba home that I paid $87k for would cost us $700k there. That's a $3500-4000 per month compared to the $450/mo we pay now (not including escrow for taxes and insurance). Taxes, utilities, insurance, and transportation costs would be higher as well. We would be better off staying where are and taking a 50% pay cut.
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Sure and I looked at buying a mansion in Berkeley Hills but it cost a few million so I decided not to move. What is this bullshit I’m reading right now? The point was that earning $100k in the bay doesn’t put you at poverty level or anywhere near it. You can *gasp* rent an apartment and live a decent life or move somewhere cheaper.
 
5150Joker said:
Why do they need a home in SF? Are you really that stupid? And yes I did the math and as I said, it’s easy to survive in the bay on $100k. It’s only when you think you deserve a million dollar home and other “incidentals” like you claim does reality distort.
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I don't deserve a million dollar home but I need a decent 3-4 bedroom home with a 2 car garage (and a barely existent backyard) for my family, that's not being greedy at all : I would happily pay half of what I did for it, alas now how the market works.
 
5150Joker said:
Sure and I looked at buying a mansion in Berkeley Hills but it cost a few million so I decided not to move. What is this bullshit I’m reading right now? The point was that earning $100k in the bay doesn’t put you at poverty level or anywhere near it. You can *gasp* rent an apartment and live a decent life or move somewhere cheaper.
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Palo Alto has income assistance for many folks making under 250k...
 
5150Joker said:
Sure and I looked at buying a mansion in Berkeley Hills but it cost a few million so I decided not to move. What is this bullshit I’m reading right now? The point was that earning $100k in the bay doesn’t put you at poverty level or anywhere near it. You can *gasp* rent an apartment and live a decent life or move somewhere cheaper.
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There is no where cheap in the bay area. You have to somewhere where you'd be driving 4-6 hours a day to get to and from work. And renting an apartment was MORE than buying. Also, an 1100sq house for 4 people is by no measure any sort of mansion.
 
Derangel said:
"Just move" and "You chose to work there" really shouldn't be the responses adults should give to this. That's the reaction I'd expect from a teenager. The fact that a company as rich as ActiBlizz, that pays no taxes and is given millions in tax payer dollars refuses to pay employees a decent living wage is fucking ridiculous. Yes, people can leave, but they shouldn't have to. They shouldn't have to pick between being able to buy food and working at a job they clearly enjoy. This shit isn't capitalism, it's not how the system was ever supposed to work.
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No, it's exactly how capitalism is supposed to work. They're both consenting parties with a mutually beneficial agreement They both know and understand exactly what they're getting into. No one is being cheated or FORCED to do anything.
The reason they pay so little is because there's plenty of other people that want to do this "fun work". Because they value this "fun job" more than what they could do with the extra money they could make from another job.

You have no right to FORCE someone to do something for completely subjective reasons. The same reasoning you use can be used to say you need to pay streamers with 10 viewers "a decent living wage" so they can live comfortably in the bay area.
 
kju1 said:
You can always leave its a false assumption you cant afford to leave. You just might not be able to maintain the lifestyle you want to if you leave. But yes they are toxic places to work.
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You can always leave but it’s a mind set you get stuck in when you are in that position. Looking in at it it’s an obvious decision but when your in it it is very hard and scary to see out. There’s been some pretty big studies on this issue particularly in Japan.
 
sharknice said:
You don't need unionization to fix something that already has a solution. The solution is to stop being a pushover, ask for more money or find another job. Everyone that would be ballsy enough to start a union does this instead because it's way easier and better for them.
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Yeah but they have attempted to unionize a few times, was even a sympathy strike with the Actors guild (VO, MoCap, etc) but it didn’t go anywhere, but the poor working conditions in the software gaming industry are pretty well known at this point it’s sadly why lots of it now happens overseas.
 
Lakados said:
I can appreciate that they are stuck, can't afford to stay but can't afford to leave, it's a mindset thing after a few years like that you've got no energy left to even think about the possibilities and that's what they want, management at these sorts of places intentionally try to drive their employees to this point because once you have them here they are cheap and loyal and you can treat them like dirt and they will thank you for it. There are even cases where management will keep rumors going around that layoffs and downsizes, or outsourcing is a possibility, they won't say it but they keep rumors active because it keeps them on their toes with their heads down trying to show they are worth keeping around. Blizzard, and EA, and most of the others are more than happy to burn out low level coding positions by the dozens because they know they can replace them with fresh "eager" talent, and the ones who do get promoted through that are happy to stay because "They did their time, and you should too" and "That's how development works", it's just a bad culture and I am sad that attempts to unionize it have failed.
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Sounds a lot like Stockholm Syndrome to me.

Skilled software developers are in constant demand. If you can program a game engine you can also program accounting software, embedded medical device software, or even "cloud infrastructure".

Sure, you have to learn a few peripheral tricks but there is no reason to be "stuck" other than that you have some childish dream of working with games.

Just give up on that bullshit and move on to a field that doesn't have the ability to take advantage of all the childish dreamers and thus has to pay competitive wages.

I highly recommend anything medical device. It can be a little tricky to get your first gig, bit once you get your foot in the door you'll never be out of work. As long as you can put up with rather strict testing, control and documentation requirements.

Start by reading:
- FDA's General Principles of Software Validation (free); and
- IEC62304 Medical Device Software -- Software Lifecycle Processes. (Paid, but surprisingly cheap on the Estonian Standards Institutes site, don't know how they can sell ISO standards so much cheaper than everyone else)
 
Lakados said:
Yeah but they have attempted to unionize a few times, was even a sympathy strike with the Actors guild (VO, MoCap, etc) but it didn’t go anywhere, but the poor working conditions in the software gaming industry are pretty well known at this point it’s sadly why lots of it now happens overseas.
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It is well published that the working conditions are rough in games development, but these are not slaves we are talking about.

They are not even low skill workers without other options.

These are highly skilled workers with one of the most in-demand skill sets on the market, namely software development.

If they are staying with Blizzard or any other game developer it is out of choice. They are choosing this misery. They could go to any other non-game software developer, who would likely be happy to have them as they are always short on talent, even in recessions, and instantly improve on their situation. If they don't, it is because they are choosing to stick with their oppressor, and that quite frankly is on them.

If you don't want miserable working conditions, don't work in games. Everyone knows this. It has been well published for decades now. Don't start working in games, and if you are there, go somewhere else.
 
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undertaker2k8 said:
I don't deserve a million dollar home but I need a decent 3-4 bedroom home with a 2 car garage (and a barely existent backyard) for my family, that's not being greedy at all : I would happily pay half of what I did for it, alas now how the market works.
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That's you having lofty expectations for an expensive area. Why do you NEED a 3-4 bedroom home? It's just a case of you driving up your own expenses, you chose to have kids, a wife and a dog or whatever and now you think $100k is poverty level when it's not. You just raised your own personal costs and I suspect this is the same thing Blizzard employees are doing. A cursory look at game developer pay in the bay area shows a pay of around $100-140k a year depending on experience/level. Say you get an average of $120k/yr and a net of 66% take home after taxes, you're looking at around $6k/month. You could rent a 2-3 bd place in the bay area for about $2500/mo and still be able to afford a relatively decent car with health insurance etc. It's people who inflate their costs to include a wife, kids, dog etc that think $100k is't doable and for them it isn't and it's why they need a dual income household like everyone else these days. But is that Blizzards fault that people choose a certain lifestyle and raise their costs? No it isn't.
 
Derangel said:
"Just move" and "You chose to work there" really shouldn't be the responses adults should give to this. That's the reaction I'd expect from a teenager. The fact that a company as rich as ActiBlizz, that pays no taxes and is given millions in tax payer dollars refuses to pay employees a decent living wage is fucking ridiculous. Yes, people can leave, but they shouldn't have to. They shouldn't have to pick between being able to buy food and working at a job they clearly enjoy. This shit isn't capitalism, it's not how the system was ever supposed to work.
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The people that left went to better paying jobs. So, why doesn't they chose to stay work? If everyone that wasn't happy with their pay quit there are others who would happily take their place.
 
Aix. said:
Shhh, if you keep this up they might learn about the subsidies and bailouts!
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You you calling tax payout reductions, subsidies? There's an argument to be made they're equivalent but under certain contexts they are not the same thing.
 
5150Joker said:
That's you having lofty expectations for an expensive area. Why do you NEED a 3-4 bedroom home? It's just a case of you driving up your own expenses, you chose to have kids, a wife and a dog or whatever and now you think $100k is poverty level when it's not. You just raised your own personal costs and I suspect this is the same thing Blizzard employees are doing. A cursory look at game developer pay in the bay area shows a pay of around $100-140k a year depending on experience/level. Say you get an average of $120k/yr and a net of 66% take home after taxes, you're looking at around $6k/month. You could rent a 2-3 bd place in the bay area for about $2500/mo and still be able to afford a relatively decent car with health insurance etc. It's people who inflate their costs to include a wife, kids, dog etc that think $100k is't doable and for them it isn't and it's why they need a dual income household like everyone else these days. But is that Blizzards fault that people choose a certain lifestyle and raise their costs? No it isn't.
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I think you are being a little harsh, but I will agree that with the markets the way they are today, raising a family in a hot urban market is an absolute luxury.

You can get away with living and working there while young and single, but you can no longer have the TV sitcom lifestyle (own single family home, 2.1 kids, dog, two modest domestic cars, ability to save for college for kids, retirement for yourself and occasional take a vacation.

That is likely going to require an absolutely minimum of two $120k+ salaries in many hot housing markets (Bay area, New york, Boston, etc.)

If you want the "classic american middle class" experience you have to be prepared to move further and further out from these areas. Trying to accomplish it close to the center is a definite luxury.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I think you are being a little harsh, but I will agree that with the markets the way they are today, raising a family in a hot urban market is an absolute luxury.

You can get away with living and working there while young and single, but you can no longer have the TV sitcom lifestyle (own single family home, 2.1 kids, dog, two modest domestic cars, ability to save for college for kids, retirement for yourself and occasional take a vacation.

That is likely going to require an absolutely minimum of two $120k+ salaries in many hot housing markets (Bay area, New york, Boston, etc.)

If you want the "classic american middle class" experience you have to be prepared to move further and further out from these areas. Trying to accomplish it close to the center is a definite luxury.
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THe bay area is overpopulated. SV needs to be dispersed. Anyone whose bought into the area wants to keep inflicting the high cost of living on their employees, to keep their property investments bubbled up.
 
Jagger100 said:
THe bay area is overpopulated. SV needs to be dispersed. Anyone whose bought into the area wants to keep inflicting the high cost of living on their employees, to keep their property investments bubbled up.
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Again it's a matter of supply and demand.

Some may not see it, but there are things there that are appealing to many, and thus many people want to live there, and when a scarce resource is in high demand it gets expensive.

A good thing to come out of COVID19 is that I think we have demonstrated that for most knowledge workers, working remotely works a hell of a lot better than we ever expected.

It's to the point where corporate bean counters are starting to wonder why they are spending all of this money on office space.

Maybe once things get back to normal, people will continue to work remotely more than before, making it possible to live somewhere cheaper.
 
Jagger100 said:
You you calling tax payout reductions, subsidies? There's an argument to be made they're equivalent but under certain contexts they are not the same thing.
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Only responding to the notion that the US is some sort of pure capitalism environment, when in reality there are government subsidies promoting farming, oil, etc., and of course bailouts of banks and corporations with taxpayer dollars any time trouble strikes.

Socialism for the common man? Pure failure. Socialism for corporations? Why that's called capitalism, dummy!
 
Aix. said:
Shhh, if you keep this up they might learn about the subsidies and bailouts!
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Its just amazing to me that people cannot only see that the supremely wealthy have privatized the profits and socialized the loses, but they actually support it ... to their own determent. And yet people still claim they live within a capitalist system.
 
Ready4Dis said:
The big part is... Choosing. They knew how much they werw getting paid when they took the job, now all the sudden they can't afford food? What changed that they could once afford food and now can't? ..
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Well, inflation for one, mate.🙄rising prices are a real thing. 😁

Suddenly living on a remote space station in distant galaxy seems appealing. (Ex: sevastopol)
aliens? Ah, fk aliens mate!
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
If you don't want miserable working conditions, don't work in games. Everyone knows this. It has been well published for decades now. Don't start working in games, and if you are there, go somewhere else.
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I would second this, as someone who did some work in that industry then pivoted out.
There is some value though. The thought of "think in what can I get done in this millisecond" from gaming does actually apply in a lot of fields. My code is STRONK, and FEST.

If enough people say "F this", they might change. But while masses are clamoring to get even horrible jobs at rock bottom wages in gaming - they will not.

To younger folks - I strongly strongly suggest you work in other industries, and just enjoy the games via download. I do totally get the desire to be a part of it, and I did that. I also ate (bad) top ramen, lived in a place where there was a 50 percent chance of a knife fight on the walk from the car to the front door. And I drank wine which came in a box. Of all the crimes, that one is the most frightening.
 
UltraTaco said:
Well, inflation for one, mate.🙄rising prices are a real thing. 😁

Suddenly living on a remote space station in distant galaxy seems appealing. (Ex: sevastopol)
aliens? Ah, fk aliens mate!
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Inflation hasn't gone up that much in the last year to go from living a life of luxury to not eating. More they over extended themselves hoping their overtime hours weren't going to be cut. I have taken 2 pay cuts in recent history, and had my overtime hours eliminated. All 3 times I was able to pay all of my bills and keep food on the table. I'm just now getting back to the pay in was at 5 years ago. I'm married, single income with 4 kids and I just sold my house in VA that I was upside down on since the housing crash in 08 years (and took an ~$70k hit to do so), so have been paying 2 mortgages for about 8 years now (moved out of it about 2012). I don't feel bad for these people. The ones complaining are mostly QA and testers... They aren't going to pay a game tester tons of money to do a job most college kids would do for damn near free. If you have kids and a wife and can't afford to live there, then maybe you need to be a dual income house or find happiness elsewhere.
 
Ah agreed mate, for some reason taco thought timelapse was in the magnitude of about 10 yrs with gradual losses. My apologies. I totally agree.
 
DukenukemX said:
Just want to point out that we don't really have a capitalist system. We have crony capitalism or socialism for the rich and hard capitalism for the poor. Capitalism works so well that the rich have socialism. The stuff Blizzard does here in the United States wouldn't fly in the UK. You can't just fire people and hire again for their position in the UK.
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Derangel said:
"Just move" and "You chose to work there" really shouldn't be the responses adults should give to this. That's the reaction I'd expect from a teenager. The fact that a company as rich as ActiBlizz, that pays no taxes and is given millions in tax payer dollars refuses to pay employees a decent living wage is fucking ridiculous. Yes, people can leave, but they shouldn't have to. They shouldn't have to pick between being able to buy food and working at a job they clearly enjoy. This shit isn't capitalism, it's not how the system was ever supposed to work.
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??
 
The entitlement in this thread is disgusting.

Blizzard owes these people nothing. As said before, if you are not happy with the work conditions, pay, benefits - go somewhere else. No one is making you work there.

Capitalism does work, its the lazy, unskilled mob that cannot compete. Maybe gets some real world skills that actually deserve to get paid well.

If its too expense to live somewhere, then maybe you need to relocate. Just because you want something doesn't mean you deserve it or should have it, "because". People should leave if they cannot afford to live somewhere.

All I hear is, corporations and rich people are evil - lots of envy and jealousy. They owe you nothing.
 
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