Blizzard Doesn't Like Windows 8 Either

pelo

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Sure, resize the windows. Then when you're done, open something that isn't IE, like Chrome for instance.
 

deansmilk

n00b
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Here's another with the news app, Zune, Ccleaner, and IE on the desktop. I just click on whatever program that is open on the taskbar and it replaces Zune for example.
 

deansmilk

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cap2.png
 

pelo

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I can't edit. :(

You can also try opening IE in Metro and taking it to the desktop and see what happens to your IE (hint: it'll close your Metro session and start a desktop session because they're not the same IE).
 

pelo

2[H]4U
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2,911
Is there really a need to go further?

The Metro sidebar you have acts as a ticker and doesn't interact with your desktop. That was my point. I know you can't do these things which is why I'm asking you to do them in the first place.

Again, Metro and the desktop don't mingle unless you dedicate an entire screen to Metro or part of the screen to Metro. You can't resize the windows and you can't transition your apps from one to the other without losing what you were doing.
 

deansmilk

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I can't edit. :(

You can also try opening IE in Metro and taking it to the desktop and see what happens to your IE (hint: it'll close your Metro session and start a desktop session because they're not the same IE).

I know I cant edit either,lol, it sucks. Ill try for shits and giggles.
 

deansmilk

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Mar 4, 2012
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The Metro sidebar you have acts as a ticker and doesn't interact with your desktop. That was my point. I know you can't do these things which is why I'm asking you to do them in the first place.

Again, Metro and the desktop don't mingle unless you dedicate an entire screen to Metro or part of the screen to Metro. You can't resize the windows and you can't transition your apps from one to the other without losing what you were doing.

Ok, I see what your saying. I can resize the windows, say IE and all the other desktop apps. The Metro app however only stays as a side bar. If I expand the Metro app the desktop apps become a side bar... however I fail to see how they don't mingle? Theyre all on the same screen. I can also transition between apps fine without loosing anything.
 

nOrVow

Gawd
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
693
Challenge:

Try launching a Metro app from the Aero desktop.

Try launching the App store from the Areo desktop.

Try tiling multiple Metro apps in a grid like fashion.

Try launching a Metro app from the Aero desktop.

Then.. list how many times you have to mish-mash from Aero and Metro. :D
 

deansmilk

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Mar 4, 2012
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But they're coming... ... ... ... ... ...:D

They should have included at least one useful something in the betas... It's all RSS feeds and ad filled junkware...:( If they have all these amazing things... Why not release one to get people attached to the Metro store?

Wait, I don't think Ive seen anything with ads in it. On the other hand I haven't opened many apps either.
 
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Why is everyone having such a fit over using metro and desktop apps at the same time? Is there something i'm not seeing that everyone else is? I seem to be using my metro apps just fine along side w/e desktop app im using. I haven't run into any issues or crashes. Obviously I have to jump to the metro menu to open a metro app, but isn't that common sense? Not really that hard to press the windows key and launch an app.....
 

deansmilk

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Why is everyone having such a fit over using metro and desktop apps at the same time? Is there something i'm not seeing that everyone else is? I seem to be using my metro apps just fine along side w/e desktop app im using. I haven't run into any issues or crashes. Obviously I have to jump to the metro menu to open a metro app, but isn't that common sense? Not really that hard to press the windows key and launch an app.....

I don't even remember what lead to this,lol. All I know is that shit works :).
 
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The Metro sidebar you have acts as a ticker and doesn't interact with your desktop. That was my point. I know you can't do these things which is why I'm asking you to do them in the first place.

Again, Metro and the desktop don't mingle unless you dedicate an entire screen to Metro or part of the screen to Metro. You can't resize the windows and you can't transition your apps from one to the other without losing what you were doing.

Your statement is somewhat false. I can interact with metro apps just fine while they are in there side bar configuration. I don't need to pull the metro app out to full screen just to use it. Also how are you losing what you were doing when you transition apps? When you switch to another app it doesn't completely close the one you were working in. So whats the issue?
 

pelo

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Your statement is somewhat false. I can interact with metro apps just fine while they are in there side bar configuration. I don't need to pull the metro app out to full screen just to use it. Also how are you losing what you were doing when you transition apps? When you switch to another app it doesn't completely close the one you were working in. So whats the issue?

Nono, you lose what you're doing if you use an application in Metro that has a desktop counterpart and vice versa. IE is a perfect example of this. If you open IE in Metro (Metro IE) but want to take it to the desktop you'll lose what you were doing on Metro and it'll open a fresh IE (desktop IE).

The side bar configuration is locked. If a Metro app can't fit in a side bar, lots of text or something, it can't be resized evenly to match the desktop app whereas the desktop app can be moved around.

The point was that it's two operating systems bolted together that won't intermingle and won't open each other's applications. Metro, a tablet OS, and the desktop as the traditional OS.
 
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Nono, you lose what you're doing if you use an application in Metro that has a desktop counterpart and vice versa. IE is a perfect example of this. If you open IE in Metro (Metro IE) but want to take it to the desktop you'll lose what you were doing on Metro and it'll open a fresh IE (desktop IE).

The side bar configuration is locked. If a Metro app can't fit in a side bar, lots of text or something, it can't be resized evenly to match the desktop app whereas the desktop app can be moved around.

The point was that it's two operating systems bolted together that won't intermingle and won't open each other's applications. Metro, a tablet OS, and the desktop as the traditional OS.

Why would you want to take a metro app to the desktop though? I can understand the IE side of things. Last time I knew though, it would open up the same webpage when you click open on desktop. I just tried testing this theory, but IE is crashing all the time :p (which is why i use chrome).

I can't see how you think that they are two operating systems. It's true that you can't open a metro application from the desktop, but I sure as hell can open up ANY application I want from the metro start screen. So saying that they can't open up each other's apps is ridiculous. For me metro mingles quite well with the desktop interface, and multi-tasking between metro apps and desktop apps is super simple/easy. I constantly use the RDP metro app at work to remote into various servers. I can seamlessly switch between any server I have open to any window/program I have open at the time.
 

DeathPrincess

Fully [H]
Joined
May 15, 2010
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Wait, I don't think Ive seen anything with ads in it. On the other hand I haven't opened many apps either.

Open the games/music/video ones. Theres ads everywhere... The gmes one has ads for xbox games... the music one has ads for music before your own. Same with the video.
 

deansmilk

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Nono, you lose what you're doing if you use an application in Metro that has a desktop counterpart and vice versa. IE is a perfect example of this. If you open IE in Metro (Metro IE) but want to take it to the desktop you'll lose what you were doing on Metro and it'll open a fresh IE (desktop IE).

The side bar configuration is locked. If a Metro app can't fit in a side bar, lots of text or something, it can't be resized evenly to match the desktop app whereas the desktop app can be moved around.

The point was that it's two operating systems bolted together that won't intermingle and won't open each other's applications. Metro, a tablet OS, and the desktop as the traditional OS.

Ok, ok. All Metro is is an enhanced Start menu. I showed proof that you can easily multi task with an app and desktop. You can also switch and launch multiple apps while in the desktop with ease. All apps fit in the side bar configuration. You can resize any desktop app to fit side by side while having a Metro app open. you can also expand a Metro app while in the desktop. You can switch between apps,programs whatever and open anything without loosing anything.

Youre confusing the Start menu and the desktop as being two separate things. The start menu just gives more options. You still have a full functioning desktop that performs amazingly. If you still want to look at there being two separate os's still, does it even matter? Youre getting two os's then that performs really well. On top of giving you a choice to use what you want.
 

pelo

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You can't lay them side by side unless you do it ticker style (or sidebar, whatever you want to call it). You also can't open a Metro app with a desktop app counterpart and transition between the two <~~ that's the big one. Those apps under Metro and under desktop will behave differently and will also have different options. For certain configuration options you'll get kicked out of the Metro interface and you're forced to use the desktop (certain control panel options, for example).

It's two operating systems. They won't use each other's applications because they can't. Metro can't start desktop apps and the desktop can't start Metro apps. If it were one seamless operating systems you wouldn't have two sets of completely different applications (which behave differently. You can't even close them the same way...)
 

DrDoug

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
325
The point was that it's two operating systems bolted together that won't intermingle and won't open each other's applications. Metro, a tablet OS, and the desktop as the traditional OS.

Even the diagrams showing the layout of Windows 8 depict Metro and the desktop as two separate entities 'riding' the kernel with no interlinking between the two. You can call one from the other and little more than that. I would call that limited interoperability what it is, two operating systems in one. Too bad MS didn't allow the end user to decide which one they wanted to install and then they followed that up by gimping the desktop, IMO to push casual users to use the Metro side (and in to their own walled garden.

As an aside, I wouldn't be surprised if MS wanted to eventually kill off their support for open desktop PC gaming to push people into their own walled gardens (Metro/app store & Xbox).

Profits baby! :D
 

pelo

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It's not even a single shared kernel. There are two different kernels, meaning you'll get "Metro updates" and "desktop updates" for every windows update. Granted, they won't label it as such. They'll just say "Windows updates" but you know they're lying ;)
 

deansmilk

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Open the games/music/video ones. Theres ads everywhere... The gmes one has ads for xbox games... the music one has ads for music before your own. Same with the video.

Are you trolling me, lol. Of course theres going to be music artist displayed when you go to the music app. Of course theres going to be games displayed when you go to the games app. Same with the movies app. LOL. I thought you were meaning ads like Newegg ads in the games app. Go on Steam, guess what youll see? Games. Go buy music online or in astore and guess what else you'll see? Other artist. Go to the movies, rent a movie, yep movie posters and other movies.
 
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You can't lay them side by side unless you do it ticker style (or sidebar, whatever you want to call it). You also can't open a Metro app with a desktop app counterpart and transition between the two <~~ that's the big one. Those apps under Metro and under desktop will behave differently and will also have different options. For certain configuration options you'll get kicked out of the Metro interface and you're forced to use the desktop (certain control panel options, for example).

It's two operating systems. They won't use each other's applications because they can't. Metro can't start desktop apps and the desktop can't start Metro apps. If it were one seamless operating systems you wouldn't have two sets of completely different applications (which behave differently. You can't even close them the same way...)

Here you go again saying that they can't open each others apps! Yes you are right. I can't click on say, the Windows app store STRAIGHT from my desktop. Please provide me with an example though on how I CAN'T start desktop apps from the metro menu?

Honestly I don't think we have come close to seeing how devs will make metro apps interact with there desktop counterparts. Mainly because there are not a lot of metro apps out yet! Given a years time or less, all these issues you speak of will have blown over, just like peoples fear of the metro menu.
 

nOrVow

Gawd
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Jan 10, 2011
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693
It's not even a single shared kernel. There are two different kernels, meaning you'll get "Metro updates" and "desktop updates" for every windows update. Granted, they won't label it as such. They'll just say "Windows updates" but you know they're lying ;)

Are you serious?!?!? Wow, that's just another attack vector, then. :p
 

pelo

2[H]4U
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2,911
You're launching a Metro application from the desktop. Start a Metro application from the desktop and see where it takes you. If your answer isn't Metro then you're not using windows 8.

You're mixing up "launching" with "using." I said start and I guess you meant launch, but to clarify I meant start and use. You can launch an application from desktop or Metro, but it will only go where it belongs, whether Metro or the desktop. Then there's the rare instance where you have two choices of the same application, essentially two different applications that behave differently, have different options yet they should be the same application (but they're not).
 

c3141hf

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I'm a desktop and gaming enthusiast and I plan on upgrading to Windows 8. The desktop is vastly improved with a lot of under the hood upgrades made to it that I feel it's definitely worth upgrading to. Not least of which to get the ability to use Storage Pools which is basically Drive Extender but not buggy as hell.

Explain that then. Metro is nothing more than a full-screen start page. I use it as such and it works fantastically. The desktop is not only just as good, it's also better from my usage of it.

Drive Extender is nothing new. Microsoft has slapped a new coat of paint on a feature that has been around since Windows 2000 and have now convinced a bunch of people that it is something brand new. It is called Dynamic Disks and, yes, you can do that in Windows 7.

Having a different interface does not mean Win8 is not a "desktop OS". It's laughable since Win8 still has a standard windows desktop available. Is Openbox or AWESOME on Linux not a desktop OS because there are no desktop icons? People were threatening to switch to Linux when XP's interface was a tiny bit different from 98s, they did the same with Vista when it again changed a tiny bit, it always happens. While Metro is different for us advanced users it is a good thing for the computer illiterates out there that make up the vast majority of Windows users.

It is NOT better for the computer illiterates. I WORK with computer illiterates as part of my job, every single day. They use their computer as a tool. They do not give a damn about Metro or why it is supposdly better. They want to sit down, and get their work done. Nothing more. They do not have the time to learn a new interface everytime Microsoft or some other moronic programmer decides that something is no longer en vogue.

For once, I wish one of the braindead project managers at Microsoft would take on the shoes of desktop IT support for a day. Just look at one of the numerous Youtube videos of people sitting down their computer illiterate friends/family

You can do nearly everything on XP that you can do on 7. So why upgrade to 7? Win8 has core enhancements past the metro skin. There is better CPU scheduling (which the Bulldozer fans were wanting), faster boot times, better support for new devices, and all of the other standard feature upgrades that come with a new version of Windows. There is nothing that makes Win8 unsuitable for enthusiasts and gamers. If you had used Win8 you would know this.

1.I already have a better CPU scheduler in the Linux kernel. For one, it is smart enough not to bounce a single thread around multiple CPU cores which means that I don't have to set affinity in order to get turbo boost working at a full potential. In addition, I have the freedom to patch the kernel to use alternative CPU schedulers, such as BFS. The Linux kernel already supports bulldozer because we are not beholden to the release cycle of a monolithic entity.

2.Boot times are only relevant if you actually boot/reboot your computer often. I do not because I use an operating system that does not require me to reboot in order to update my software. In fact, I can even patch the kernel now without rebooting.

3.I get better support for new devices every-time I update the kernel. In addition, because the majority of drivers are part of the mainline kernel, I do not have to go hunting for drivers off the internet. Everything works out of the box. The days of having to edit configuration files to get your hardware working are long gone. In fact, I recently got a new laptop, installed Arch Linux on it (a distribution that is unapologetically targetted towards experts) and it detected and automatically loaded the modules (drivers) for all of my hardware without me having to lift a finger.

As far as the EULA; I find it funny that both Valve and EA have been known to take entire game collections away from users for things as simple as forum posts or sharing their account but they're the angels in this scenario when MS to my knowledge has never attempted to take anything but pirated software from their userbase in the past.

This is less of an issue IMHO than Google having the right to look at everything you do on their services and devices; yet the [H] crowd loves them.

Microsoft's Windows Store EULA specifically states that they have the right to monitor your usage. At least with Google, you actually have to be using their services. With Windows 8, all you have to do is use your computer.

When was the last time you had any issues with NTFS? Seriously? I understand file system improvements on a server but on the desktop...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012

ReFS originates from Windows Server 2012.

Then there's this gem:

So basically, their "server only" file system took away every single feature that was useful for servers.
 

deansmilk

n00b
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Messages
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You can't lay them side by side unless you do it ticker style (or sidebar, whatever you want to call it). You also can't open a Metro app with a desktop app counterpart and transition between the two <~~ that's the big one. Those apps under Metro and under desktop will behave differently and will also have different options. For certain configuration options you'll get kicked out of the Metro interface and you're forced to use the desktop (certain control panel options, for example).

It's two operating systems. They won't use each other's applications because they can't. Metro can't start desktop apps and the desktop can't start Metro apps. If it were one seamless operating systems you wouldn't have two sets of completely different applications (which behave differently. You can't even close them the same way...)

Metro can start desktop apps because its the START menu. The desktop can start Metro apps cause theyre in the START menu. You also keep bringing up how you cant run two of the same type of apps. Is there a reason why you would need to do this? If so couldn't you go online and open up multiple browser tabs to get your daily fix of whatever news, social, whatever app of the day feeds you? Or do you need the same game going on multiple times? Im kind of confused on this. Oh and of course youll get kicked out of the start menu when you open control panel,lol.
 
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You're launching a Metro application from the desktop. Start a Metro application from the desktop and see where it takes you. If your answer isn't Metro then you're not using windows 8.

You're mixing up "launching" with "using." I said start and I guess you meant launch, but to clarify I meant start and use. You can launch an application from desktop or Metro, but it will only go where it belongs, whether Metro or the desktop. Then there's the rare instance where you have two choices of the same application, essentially two different applications that behave differently, have different options yet they should be the same application (but they're not).

That makes complete sense that they open in there respective interfaces. Why do you have a problem with it? the metro menu is just another way to access Desktop/Metro applications and content. I.E. a much faster way the, scrolling through a program files list. I have all my application laid out in my own custom groups in metro which I think look pleasing to the eye.

You confuse me though..... how does one start a metro app from the desktop? Unless you mean that the Metro app is already running and you just want to switch to it from the desktop. Otherwise you have to open up the metro menu to launch a metro app.
 

pelo

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
2,911
Metro can start desktop apps because its the START menu. The desktop can start Metro apps cause theyre in the START menu. You also keep bringing up how you cant run two of the same type of apps. Is there a reason why you would need to do this? If so couldn't you go online and open up multiple browser tabs to get your daily fix of whatever news, social, whatever app of the day feeds you? Or do you need the same game going on multiple times? Im kind of confused on this. Oh and of course youll get kicked out of the start menu when you open control panel,lol.

Metro is not the start menu. Metro is its own operating system but also encompasses the start menu. You're the one who's confused here, not me.

To prove this, here's another simple test you'll fail to do because it's two separate operating systems. Download, install and start Izarc. It's a pretty good winrar/winzip equivalent that handles a whole slew of various file types. When you've installed it, open it however you want but you must use it in Metro. Tell me what happens.

That makes complete sense that they open in there respective interfaces.

It only makes sense if you're aware that it's two operating systems bolted together. You keep dancing around my point, claiming I'm wrong then proving I'm right, admitting I'm right, then saying what's the big deal? Well...I dunno, you tell me? Why were you so adamantly claiming I was wrong?

So basically, their "server only" file system took away every single feature that was useful for servers.

Yep. The encryption tools notwithstanding. Granted, you'll get better encryption via third-party programs anyway. They've been losing the server game for years now, it isn't surprising.
 
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Metro is not the start menu. Metro is its own operating system but also encompasses the start menu. You're the one who's confused here, not me.

To prove this, here's another simple test you'll fail to do because it's two separate operating systems. Download, install and start Izarc. It's a pretty good winrar/winzip equivalent that handles a whole slew of various file types. When you've installed it, open it however you want but you must use it in Metro. Tell me what happens.



It only makes sense if you're aware that it's two operating systems bolted together. You keep dancing around my point, claiming I'm wrong then proving I'm right, admitting I'm right, then saying what's the big deal? Well...I dunno, you tell me? Why were you so adamantly claiming I was wrong?



Yep. The encryption tools notwithstanding. Granted, you'll get better encryption via third-party programs anyway. They've been losing the server game for years now, it isn't surprising.

Lets see, um.... because it's a START MENU not an operating system. Why the hell would I try and use an application in a start menu???
 
Joined
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Messages
624
I should specify (since I can't edit..). why the hell would I want to use a Desktop application in a start menu??
 

pelo

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
2,911
Lets see, um.... because it's a START MENU not an operating system. Why the hell would I try and use an application in a start menu???

Heatless, these are the people who are helping you defend windows 8. They actually believe Metro is the start menu.

PicardDoubleFacepalm-1.jpg


For a bit more perspective on the difference between Metro and the traditional windows desktop:

If you take every single Linux distro that has ever been created, and I emphasize ever, they'll have more in common with each other than does the windows desktop to Metro.
 

deansmilk

n00b
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
38
Ok, I don't care anymore to prove anything. I've wasted enough time on this. Lets just say for arguments sake that they are two separate os's, whatever. You now have two options to do what you want in one package. While still running amazingly. Or you have the option to not use Win8 at all. Enjoy.
 
Joined
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Messages
624
this thread is fail thread like every single Windows 8 thread before it on every other forum. We will never see eye to eye, and our opinions will always bring us down to this level. It's like arguing religion.
 
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