Blizzard/Activation being hit by the Perfect Storm. Will they survive?

Zangmonkey

Supreme [H]ardness
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What I don't understand is why bring one such massive lawsuit. They should just cite them on the most serious things, and pursue the rest as separate cases. I think making it into one giant lawsuit will not just drag out the case for years delaying any compensation of victims, but also makes it less solid and harder to win.

It seems to me that a lot of false allegations are being piggybacked on this case by opportunists that will ultimately hurt the real victims of harassment.

In order to bring an employment-related suit in many states, you are *required* to first file a complaint with the state authority.
That state authority will decide whether they have jurisdiction and whether they need to conduct a preliminary investigation, and whether they will file an initiating suit.
If the agency decides against any of those things then the individual can file a case of their own.

It's at least partially designed to help apply state resources to employment issues because employees often lack the resources to conduct investigations or legal suits against large companies.


Just like any suit, opposing sides will vet their be cases and amend the complaints and responses over time. The initial complaint in any suit will almost surely include a bunch of stuff because you're not sure what's going to stick... But you initial complaint needs to be broad because the process to add new causes on action later can be cumbersome.
 

WilyKit

Limp Gawd
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It seems to me that a lot of false allegations are being piggybacked on this case by opportunists that will ultimately hurt the real victims of harassment.

Preciously, false and some down right frivolous. Yet there's one or two people in this thread who are baffled at how those can compromise even what could potentially be a legitimate complaint. If I see someone BSing to take advantage of a situation, it will make me question everything else about the claims.
 

Denpepe

[H]ard|Gawd
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I own my high tech business and although I have a full gaming PC setup at the office, I don't play game in the presence of my employees or at times when they may need to drop by my office. I only play in the mid-late afternoon after all the stuff for the days have been settled.

They are a game making company, I would assume getting to play a game is "working" to some extent at least.
 

Wiz33

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They are a game making company, I would assume getting to play a game is "working" to some extent at least.

To some extend if the game you're playing is at least related enough for comparison but it does not sounds like it in this case.
 

Zangmonkey

Supreme [H]ardness
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To some extend if the game you're playing is at least related enough for comparison but it does not sounds like it in this case.
Playing games at work at blizzard is not the issue. The issue is the claim that managers disproportionately delegated their work to female subordinates (versus their male subordinates) and then withheld merit-based outcomes from them.
 

Wiz33

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Playing games at work at blizzard is not the issue. The issue is the claim that managers disproportionately delegated their work to female subordinates (versus their male subordinates) and then withheld merit-based outcomes from them.
Yep!
 

tunatime

Well...OK
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Playing games at work at blizzard is not the issue. The issue is the claim that managers disproportionately delegated their work to female subordinates (versus their male subordinates) and then withheld merit-based outcomes from them.
Why does it matter if they give 100% of the work to someone and let the other people play games ect all day? If they choose to stay and put up with that and not leave that's on them. A company should be able to dictate it's work to employees without omg this is not fair junk coming into pay
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
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My opinion on this is the same as it has always been every time this sort of thing pops up. Simply put, people are innocent until proven guilty. Accusations, on their own, mean nothing. Anyone can accuse anyone of anything, and this is increasingly being used in the context of harassment and blackmail. The problem is, unlike in the court of law, in the court of social media, everyone is guilty until (and sometimes even after) they are proven innocent. No proof required.

For every guy out there who actually sexually harasses a woman in the workplace, there are an equal number of scam-artist woman employees who throw out accusations in order to cover up their own incompetence or negligence, knowing full well that everyone will rush to support them and no one will ever second guess them or question their accusations in any way - because it's been setup now so that even the questioning of an unfounded sexual harassment accusation is itself looked upon as sexual harassment.

With that said, I don't have any idea if the accusations are true or not. Bring on the trial and let the accusers bring on the proof. If they actually have the proof, then the people who did wrong deserve what they get. If they don't have proof, then the "victims" should be hit with slander charges IMO.
 

Zangmonkey

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Why does it matter if they give 100% of the work to someone and let the other people play games ect all day? If they choose to stay and put up with that and not leave that's on them. A company should be able to dictate it's work to employees without omg this is not fair junk coming into pay

Well for one, and the basis of this lawsuit, it is illegal for companies like blizzard to delegate work differently in the basis of sex.

But let's pretend it isn't illegal. Blizzard *doesn't want* that. They, like most big successful companies, want their employees to feel safe, valued, and not discriminated against.
Good leaders on healthy teams cultivate environments of trust, where IC's believe their leaders will make sacrifices for them when needed. This isn't some touchy feely crap where you want to try and define "equal work" for complex tasks but you want your colleagues to trust you and develop a shared environment where we can depend on each other.

Tech companies don't deliberately want to drive women away or make them feel unsafe. To do so creates a pretty divisive working environment.

This isn't really on topic, though.
 

Wiz33

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And now we have all the former execs like Mike Morhaime and Chris Metzen coming out and apologizing for their failure to protect their crew and trying to distance themselves from the whole mess and hoping that we won't realize that they are probably more to be blamed than J. Allen Brack as they were there while most of this was going on where Brack kinda just inherited the mass and was probably trying to implement some changes (apparently not enough though).
 
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Krenum

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People my friend, people build toxicity, not a specific gender, nor is it limited to a gender. Don't buy into the narrative, everyone is to blame.
1 person on their own is fine, start grouping em together and within 5 min they will start imagining ways to kill one another. Its interesting how the human psyche works.
 

jerry8169

Limp Gawd
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1 person on their own is fine, start grouping em together and within 5 min they will start imagining ways to kill one another. Its interesting how the human psyche works.
"A person can be smart, people are dumb, panicky beasts, and you know it." Agent K
 

revodo

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Hey remember when just men were in the workplace and we literally got paid enough to support an entire family on one paycheck because we didn't saturate the market with more workers, and could freely joke with each other about pretty much anything, and didn't have to worry about being distracted, or fired over every little thing?

Crazy times. It's so much better now.
 

3dprophet

Weaksauce
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People my friend, people build toxicity, not a specific gender, nor is it limited to a gender. Don't buy into the narrative, everyone is to blame.

Have you ever heard of toxic masculinity?

Yes, toxicity in general could potentially come from any gender, but there is a very common type of toxicity in society that comes from the male gender only.

Also, suggesting that the victims are to blame for this is just sick. One of the employees allegedly killed herself due to the work culture.
 

CrimsonKnight13

Lord Stabington of [H]ard|Fortress
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Have you ever heard of toxic masculinity?

Yes, toxicity in general could potentially come from any gender, but there is a very common type of toxicity in society that comes from the male gender only.

Also, suggesting that the victims are to blame for this is just sick. One of the employees allegedly killed herself due to the work culture.
Toxic masculinity is a catch all for any misdoing by males. There's equal toxic femininity in our society as well & it's usually using toxic masculinity as a cover-up.
 

NattyKathy

Gawd
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I think Activision / Blizzard will survive this just fine. Management will do a purge, make some faux-"woke" statements, hire some consultants, and by the time media coverage moves on it'll just be a bad quarter on the books and they'll be back to selling lootboxes or whatever it is they do in no time.

Hey remember when just men were in the workplace and we literally got paid enough to support an entire family on one paycheck because we didn't saturate the market with more workers, and could freely joke with each other about pretty much anything, and didn't have to worry about being distracted, or fired over every little thing?

Crazy times. It's so much better now.
IDK if you're being sarcastic or not but as a woman I'd rather not have a metaphorical gun to my head saying that I have to stay home and be a housewife so that men don't have to think before they speak in public (workplaces are not fully private spaces). I'm sure some would prefer we stay in the kitchen (and off this forum, I assume) but it's 2021 ffs. Women have been in tech for decades at this point.
 

revodo

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Have you ever heard of toxic masculinity?

Yes, toxicity in general could potentially come from any gender, but there is a very common type of toxicity in society that comes from the male gender only.

Also, suggesting that the victims are to blame for this is just sick. One of the employees allegedly killed herself due to the work culture.

Yeah, doesn't exist. It's an SJW term coined by people with purple hair and nose rings. I don't base my reality on made up catchphrases and directed insanity.
 

CrimsonKnight13

Lord Stabington of [H]ard|Fortress
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I think Activision / Blizzard will survive this just fine. Management will do a purge, make some faux-"woke" statements, hire some consultants, and by the time media coverage moves on it'll just be a bad quarter on the books and they'll be back to selling lootboxes or whatever it is they do in no time.
So they'll go Office Space on their people? "So what would say you do here?" :ROFLMAO:
 

Westwood

Supreme [H]ardness
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On the whole SJW deal, last time I was raiding was in a guild where they all called each other comrade and the GM tried explaining to me the benefits of communism any time we grouped together. He was unemployed for six years, had heart issues, and played 100+ hours a week. The whole guild was on it too. That was the last time I had guild there.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
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Have you ever heard of toxic masculinity?

Yes, toxicity in general could potentially come from any gender, but there is a very common type of toxicity in society that comes from the male gender only.

Also, suggesting that the victims are to blame for this is just sick. One of the employees allegedly killed herself due to the work culture.

See the problem I have with your argument, and the movement behind it, is that it does not reflect or take into consideration the complexity of reality, it simplifies reality by freezing or omitting other variables and parsing it down to a black/white equation of male/female. This is not reality, nothing occurs without a reaction, and no one really asks, why? Most times people barely acknowledge that many (if not most) men are also in a position where they are somehow victimized by toxicity and toxic masculinity, and most of the time I just see the 'patriarchy' blamed.

The reality is we all failed, men and women, parents and children, left and right, we failed to reprimand, failed to punish or withhold, and often we enabled and/or rewarded these people which is why you find so many of them in positions of power. There is a reason that sociopaths hold most of the top positions of income and power around the world.

In the very fact, your end argument is poison to finding the root of the problem by misdirecting into victim blaming and then shouting 'but someone died' without bothering to understand that reality is far more complex than we care to realize, because complex means difficult to understand, challenging to our world views, with no clear bad or good but shades of grey.

Yes, someone died, many people have died, either been killed or killed themselves, its a tragedy, but reducing our understanding how and why isn't going to solve anything, at best it will shift the victims to another demographic, and at worst it will serve as a smoke screen and actually protect the offenders and enable them to continue doing so.

I want this solved, and in no way does the current narrative actually solve anything, we are not a community of genders, we are a community of people, if something is toxic it comes from all of us and the solution can only come from all of us.

This is far to soapboxy, so feel free to take this to the appropriate forum.
I think Activision / Blizzard will survive this just fine. Management will do a purge, make some faux-"woke" statements, hire some consultants, and by the time media coverage moves on it'll just be a bad quarter on the books and they'll be back to selling lootboxes or whatever it is they do in no time.


IDK if you're being sarcastic or not but as a woman I'd rather not have a metaphorical gun to my head saying that I have to stay home and be a housewife so that men don't have to think before they speak in public (workplaces are not fully private spaces). I'm sure some would prefer we stay in the kitchen (and off this forum, I assume) but it's 2021 ffs. Women have been in tech for decades at this point.

I'd suggest the ignore button, never has someone hit my ignore list so quickly.
 

revodo

n00b
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IDK if you're being sarcastic or not but as a woman I'd rather not have a metaphorical gun to my head saying that I have to stay home and be a housewife so that men don't have to think before they speak in public (workplaces are not fully private spaces). I'm sure some would prefer we stay in the kitchen (and off this forum, I assume) but it's 2021 ffs.

Back on-topic... I think Blizzard will survive this just fine. Management will do a purge, make some faux-"woke" statements, hire some consultants, and by the time media coverage moves on it'll just be a bad quarter on the books and they'll be back to selling lootboxes or whatever it is they do in no time.

Yes, because serving some strangers in a concrete building that don't care if you live or die instead of your family is so empowering. Also, increasing the capacity of workers has dropped wages significantly, so now you get to work twice as hard for the same pay. Brilliant.
 

NattyKathy

Gawd
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Messages
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Yes, because serving some strangers in a concrete building that don't care if you live or die instead of your family is so empowering. Also, increasing the capacity of workers has dropped wages significantly, so now you get to work twice as hard for the same pay. Brilliant.
way to deflect. Never said going to work at a crappy job that doesn't care about the workers is like a fantastic dream situation, what I said was that I'm not okay with myself and other adults being forced into being dependents.
JFC, why is this even controversial in the 21st century?
As for the economic argument; if keeping wages reasonable requires shoehorning half the population into domestic labor then maybe you have to accept that a lot of people aren't going to like that system <shrug>
 

Aireoth

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way to deflect. Never said going to work at a crappy job that doesn't care about the workers is like a fantastic dream situation, what u said was that I'm not okay with myself and other adults being forced into being dependents.
JFC, why is this even controversial in the 21st century?
As for the economic argument; if keeping wages reasonable requires shoehorning half the population into domestic labor then maybe you have to accept that a lot of people aren't going to like that system <shrug>

His type don't understand that correlation does not equal causation, omits the rise of the global market (and thus global competition), the importation of cheap labour and the exportation of business to cheap labour markets, the demand of the stock market to continually grow, and the ultimate end impact on wage and work environment.
 

revodo

n00b
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correlation does not equal causation

Redditor and first year college student detected. That line is a literal catchphrase now. Congrats, I'm sure you'll get lots of upvotes on your favorite site.
 

revodo

n00b
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way to deflect. Never said going to work at a crappy job that doesn't care about the workers is like a fantastic dream situation, what I said was that I'm not okay with myself and other adults being forced into being dependents.
JFC, why is this even controversial in the 21st century?
As for the economic argument; if keeping wages reasonable requires shoehorning half the population into domestic labor then maybe you have to accept that a lot of people aren't going to like that system <shrug>

Fair point. Our society is much better off now.
 
Joined
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Messages
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I watched the Jimquisition episode about Activision-Blizzard. Just burn the gaming industry to the ground, like when people used to burn houses to get rid of the plague. I really don't give a shit anymore.

And this isn't even about "cancel culture" or "being woke". This is about basic goddamn human decency.
 

revodo

n00b
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View attachment 379037

wow, ya joined 2 weeks ago and you're off to a great start already! Welcome to [H], good luck pal

Aaaaand I'm out of this thread before I get in trouble (if it's not already too late)

And when she loses the argument she resorts to pointing out the imaginary pecking order of some 20 year old website as if that validates her somehow. Thanks for proving my earlier point.
 

Armenius

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And when she loses the argument she resorts to pointing out the imaginary pecking order of some 20 year old website as if that validates her somehow. Thanks for proving my earlier point.
I suggest you review the forum rules, especially rule #1. I've seen you violating this rule quite often in various threads. We generally like to have constructive conversations here while having fun every once in a while. It's ironic that you insult one of our longtime members as a Redditor when digging into your short post history shows that you, yourself, may be more at home over there. I frequent the site myself quite often, but am able to separate my "Reddiquette" on such a large community forum from a tighter one such as this.

https://hardforum.com/threads/the-h-ard-forum-rules.760666/
 

chameleoneel

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Messages
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This is all a bunch of BS. Do your job,

Where I work , its 85% Women, which is fine by me ;)
Me too!

I was referencing that, post war, the men returned and forced many women out of the jobs they had been working and away from their lives as earners.

Also, early computers were thought of in a similar vein as telephones and typewriters. So, many of those early machines were run by women. Men circled back, once they realized that computers are the future and there is money in it.
 
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Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
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5,479
I suggest you review the forum rules, especially rule #1. I've seen you violating this rule quite often in various threads. We generally like to have constructive conversations here while having fun every once in a while. It's ironic that you insult one of our longtime members as a Redditor when digging into your short post history shows that you, yourself, may be more at home over there. I frequent the site myself quite often, but am able to separate my "Reddiquette" on such a large community forum from a tighter one such as this.

https://hardforum.com/threads/the-h-ard-forum-rules.760666/

His profile pic and attitude I really suspect he is Idiotincharge with a new account.
 
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