Blew my third 1100T

MacLeod

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Join us! I myself am an AMD "expat". Went from a T-bird 1100, to a 2300+, to an Athlon 6000+, and of course now I'm rocking the intel in my sig. I still want to see AMD bring a kick-ass CPU to the market, and even now am a huge Radeon fan, but intel is the only way to go for CPU performance. The numbers dont lie. Even my non-SB i5 just plain smokes, runs cool, overclocks like mad, and is rock solid.

Gotta wait for Bulldozer to drop first. You never know, they may actually have something up their sleeve to go toe to toe with Intel. Theyve proven they can make a damn good video card and compete with and beat Nvidia but Intel is another story being 10 times the size of Nvidia and hell AMD for that matter. Still I want to wait for BD to come out before I commit to a new rig. If nothing else, maybe itll shake up prices a bit.
 

Dan_D

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Join us! I myself am an AMD "expat". Went from a T-bird 1100, to a 2300+, to an Athlon 6000+, and of course now I'm rocking the intel in my sig. I still want to see AMD bring a kick-ass CPU to the market, and even now am a huge Radeon fan, but intel is the only way to go for CPU performance. The numbers dont lie. Even my non-SB i5 just plain smokes, runs cool, overclocks like mad, and is rock solid.

It's a processor manufacturing company. You aren't defecting countries, or trading secrets with some kind of political enemy. It's just computer hardware. Loyalty to anyone brand serves no purpose except to influence you into make bad purchase decisions. Or at least ones that won't make you as happy as you could be.
 

Chihlidog

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It's a processor manufacturing company. You aren't defecting countries, or trading secrets with some kind of political enemy. It's just computer hardware. Loyalty to anyone brand serves no purpose except to influence you into make bad purchase decisions. Or at least ones that won't make you as happy as you could be.

You take me a bit too seriously. I even used quotes in an attempt to indicate I was using the term very lightly.

I'm not so much of a fanboy that I'll by an inferior processor for the same money. Which is why I was encouraging the guy to go with an intel this time around, as I've done myself.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I have been building my own rigs for almost 20 years now.

With the exception of one 2 month period back in college I have never destroyed a CPU in any way.

That one 2 month stretch was a doozy though...

It was when mating the cold plate of my Asetek Vapochill to the exposed silicon of AMD's Athlon and Athlon XP CPU's.


597px-KL_AMD_Athlon_XP_Palomino.jpg


c6920c%7C8af2_1134-frontopen.jpg


Man, I was trying to be as careful as I possibly could but space was tight, and the thing was very tough to move around. That thick hose was very rigid, and had barely enough length to line up with the CPU socket. It was a very frustrating experience.

I wound up killing 2 palomino core Athlon XP 1800+ (at the time AMD's fastest CPU) and then killed my old Tbird 1200mhz Athlon before getting pissed off, and selling the Vapochill on eBay.

(then FedEX absolutely destroyed it in transit, and I had neglected to pay insurance....)

It was a bad semester in the College of overclocking hard knocks. I blew ALL of my money from that summers summer job (i had saved it and not spent a penny all summer) on the Vapochill and two Athlon XP1800+ CPU's) and wound up killing the CPU I already had (the 1200mhz tbird) and had to downgrade to my Duron 650mhz (@950) for the remainder of the year :(
 

Zarathustra[H]

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It's a processor manufacturing company. You aren't defecting countries, or trading secrets with some kind of political enemy. It's just computer hardware. Loyalty to anyone brand serves no purpose except to influence you into make bad purchase decisions. Or at least ones that won't make you as happy as you could be.

True.

On the other hand, every single purchase you make is a vote with your wallet to support a company.

Therefore every person has the responsibility to vote their conscience and spend that money with companies that behave justly.

After Intel's many shady business practices, I can not - under any circumstance - justify giving them my money, at least not until we have seen complete demonstrable change.

In a way, buying a fast CPU from Intel is - to me - a lot like getting a great deal on a Diamond from a brutal west African dictator... (though obviously on a lower level as Intel is not killing anyone, at least not that I am aware of).

Not considering the behavior of every single item you buy is socially very irresponsible.
 

CruisD64

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Zarathustra[H];1037661240 said:
I have been building my own rigs for almost 20 years now.

With the exception of one 2 month period back in college I have never destroyed a CPU in any way.

That one 2 month stretch was a doozy though...

It was when mating the cold plate of my Asetek Vapochill to the exposed silicon of AMD's Athlon and Athlon XP CPU's.

Man, I was trying to be as careful as I possibly could but space was tight, and the thing was very tough to move around. That thick hose was very rigid, and had barely enough length to line up with the CPU socket. It was a very frustrating experience.

I wound up killing 2 palomino core Athlon XP 1800+ (at the time AMD's fastest CPU) and then killed my old Tbird 1200mhz Athlon before getting pissed off, and selling the Vapochill on eBay.

(then FedEX absolutely destroyed it in transit, and I had neglected to pay insurance....)

It was a bad semester in the College of overclocking hard knocks. I blew ALL of my money from that summers summer job (i had saved it and not spent a penny all summer) on the Vapochill and two Athlon XP1800+ CPU's) and wound up killing the CPU I already had (the 1200mhz tbird) and had to downgrade to my Duron 650mhz (@950) for the remainder of the year :(


Oh man. That sucks really bad. I feel pain for you.

I remember getting an Athlon XP 1800+ my freshman year of college. Paired it with an Epox motherboard and overclocked that puppy to 2.1ghz. When the 9700 pro came out, I threw that in there and wow, I had a "top of the line" PC for the first time ever. Jedi Knight II ran flawlessly :) Ah...the good ol' days.
 

Dan_D

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Zarathustra[H];1037661265 said:
True.

On the other hand, every single purchase you make is a vote with your wallet to support a company.

Therefore every person has the responsibility to vote their conscience and spend that money with companies that behave justly.

After Intel's many shady business practices, I can not - under any circumstance - justify giving them my money, at least not until we have seen complete demonstrable change.

In a way, buying a fast CPU from Intel is - to me - a lot like getting a great deal on a Diamond from a brutal west African dictator... (though obviously on a lower level as Intel is not killing anyone, at least not that I am aware of).

Not considering the behavior of every single item you buy is socially very irresponsible.

You drive a Prius don't you?
 

MacLeod

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I dont see anything wrong with a little brand loyalty. After all, we're here because we love this shit and we're enthusiasts and having your brand favorites comes with the enthusiast territory. We're not doing this to be practical. We wouldn't be upgrading our CPU's 4 times a year if we were practical. Its the same as being loyal to your local sports team, its emotion. If we didn't care and just went off straight value and practicality. thus website would be out of business because we wouldn't care about the next big thing or whatever. Ill be practical and value minded when I'm shopping for clothes or living room furniture. Ill be a brand loyalist when I'm after that next badass motherboard.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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You drive a Prius don't you?

Nah, that's a bit too far even for me :p

I like the concept of being green and all, but the Prius is just too damned boring of a vehicle. (My wife loves hers for some crazy reason though).

My last purchase was a Saab. I wanted to support a brand I like that is at the risk of going under.

Thus far its a phenomenal vehicle :p


Saab 9-5 by mattlach, on Flickr

And it has had the added bonus of being the only one on the road I have seen. :) (Oh, and I can run it on E85 with a major power boost :p )
 
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Dan_D

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Zarathustra[H];1037661339 said:
Nah, that's a bit too far even for me :p

I like the concept of being green and all, but the Prius is just too damned boring of a vehicle. (My wife loves hers for some crazy reason though).

My last purchase was a Saab. I wanted to support a brand I like that is at the risk of going under.

Thus far its a phenomenal vehicle :p


Saab 9-5 by mattlach, on Flickr

And it has had the added bonus of being the only one on the road I have seen. :) (Oh, and I can run it on E85 with a major power boost :p )

Well I was going to point out the folly of going with a Prius given that it's batteries contain nickel which has to be strip mined which is far more damaging to the environment than my gas guzzling V8's will ever be. Sadly, I didn't get to make my point in the dramatic fashion I intended. However, you bring up another interesting point. Supporting the under dog. Great for sports teams, stupid for the consumer.

You obviously have never received letters from defunct companies who are basically telling you that if you need warranty support, that you are basically screwed. Alright, we are talking about CPU manufacturers in this case. I don't think AMD is in that kind of danger and the stakes aren't all that high. If they die, you are out a few hundred bucks. Unless you use your PC for work purposes and it's directly responsible for revenue, then doing without probably isn't the end of the world either. Let's go with a higher stakes example. I live in a Kimball Hill home. Despite their strong reputation and decades in the business, they over extended themselves during the housing turmoil in 2008. As a result, by 2010, they were absolutely done and out of business. I got a letter saying that houses built within xx/xx/xx - xx/xx/xx date range will have warranty coverage through a third party. However, my house which was built within xx/xx/xx to xx/xx/xx was not covered and that if I needed structural warranty work I was fucked. Now this isn't a matter of me choosing to pay the underdog, but rather a big name being stupid and going under. So you can even make a good choice and still get screwed.

The point is that supporting companies that are going out of business or are at least at risk of having serious trouble may make you feel warm and fuzzy and make you feel like you've done a good deed. The sad fact is that sympathy like that makes for bad decisions. Bad decisions screw you the consumer more often than not. If a company isn't able to compete with the rest of the industry, that should tell you something. Even if it's due to the other company's bad business practices, or whatever, the fact remains that company B is getting it's ass kicked by company A. If company B doesn't turn things around who gets fucked? You do. Generally companies in turmoil don't often turn around, and while you can join the ranks of the few that support them, you may end up regretting that decision later. Or at least you'll suffer the cost of doing so in one way or another.

While championing some company you happen to like feels good, the fact is I've got to look out for number 1. That's me. (Or in your case, you.) I'll hedge my bets on the winner because throwing out money I didn't want to spend feels worse than supporting some "evil conglomerate." To some extent, brand loyalty, is always to be expected. However totally illogical and irrational support of a company in the face of inferior products and services makes no sense and will bite you in the ass every time. Loyalty to that degree is never deserved. Especially not by companies who are driven to perform based on shareholder demands and expectations. AMD and Intel are both publicly traded. You can personify either of them any way you wish, but the fact remains that one company has better business men working for it than the other. Personification of one as evil and the other as good, or as some kind of under dog, or friend in need, animal rescue or whatever is ludicrous. AMD would charge you $1,000 for FX processors if they thought they could get away with it. They actually charged more for their processors than Intel did during the Athlon 64 vs. Pentium D days.

They deserve no loyalty when their products are inferior. Now, that being said, AMD's products are more than worthy of your cash in certain price points and in certain markets. So this is just an example here of why brand loyalty is nuts and the so called "consideration of the behavior of a given company concerning every single item" is often misleading and a fallacy when you do not and can not know the whole picture. Let's take this even a step further. Intel has a better environmental track record than Apple. In fact Apple has a horrible environmental track record. The Toyota Prius contain nickel in their batteries (and large amounts of it too) which actually effect the environment more than my gas guzzling cars do. Yet all the trendy hipsters who buy anything Apple, drive VW's and Prius's etc. who spout the same "product / consumer responsibility" jargon aren't actually practicing what they preach. They claim to, but they only look into these things as far as they want to and only count the information that they wish to. Their loyalty to product A or product B is justified through false means. The truth is that people just buy whatever they want and because humans are relatively intelligent, you wouldn't believe the justifications they can invent to make themselves deserving (in their minds at least) of their smug arrogance and moral superiority.

And this is why brand loyalty taken to extremes is stupid.
 
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cyclone3d

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He doesn't even compare to kyle's record with t-birds.


but you are all too young to even remember that!

How many did he fry?

Back in the day I didn't kill many t-birds, but before that I did kill quite a few K6-2 chips. I probably went through 5 or 6 of them.. but at ~$50 a pop they were fun to experiment with.

Last one I had was a K6-2 550 that I ran at 660 on an ASUS P5A. The board fried one day.. it was so sad.

I did break an Athlon XP chip into 3 pieces when I tightened my home-made waterblock down just a bit too tight.
 

ebduncan

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spoken as a true capitalist. ^^

While i agree you make very valid points. Brand loyalty is not necessarily about the product. It could be to support for a company which one believes in. It could be as result of a poor experience with a competitors product. Sometimes the best product isn't the one who performs the best, but the one who appeals to the user the most. For example if we all found out Intel was making cpu's with whores, would you support that behavior to have a superior product? Ok maybe not the best example, but certainly a picture worthy moment.

There are plenty of factors that go into brand loyalty. While the product is the reason why we learn of the company. Ultimately it is the company and its operations which can also mean something to the consumer. Say Creative comes out with a new Sound card, which completely blows everything else away.They offer no support, or help with the product. Would you still buy it? even though it has no support, but has been proven to be the best?

There are many factors which will appeal to the consumer, the product is one, but there are hundreds of other reasons a consumer will have bias towards one company over another.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Well I was going to point out the folly of going with a Prius given that it's batteries contain nickel which has to be strip mined which is far more damaging to the environment than my gas guzzling V8's will ever be. Sadly, I didn't get to make my point in the dramatic fashion I intended. However, you bring up another interesting point. Supporting the under dog. Great for sports teams, stupid for the consumer.

You obviously have never received letters from defunct companies who are basically telling you that if you need warranty support, that you are basically screwed. Alright, we are talking about CPU manufacturers in this case. I don't think AMD is in that kind of danger and the stakes aren't all that high. If they die, you are out a few hundred bucks. Unless you use your PC for work purposes and it's directly responsible for revenue, then doing without probably isn't the end of the world either. Let's go with a higher stakes example. I live in a Kimball Hill home. Despite their strong reputation and decades in the business, they over extended themselves during the housing turmoil in 2008. As a result, by 2010, they were absolutely done and out of business. I got a letter saying that houses built within xx/xx/xx - xx/xx/xx date range will have warranty coverage through a third party. However, my house which was built within xx/xx/xx to xx/xx/xx was not covered and that if I needed structural warranty work I was fucked. Now this isn't a matter of me choosing to pay the underdog, but rather a big name being stupid and going under. So you can even make a good choice and still get screwed.

The point is that supporting companies that are going out of business or are at least at risk of having serious trouble may make you feel warm and fuzzy and make you feel like you've done a good deed. The sad fact is that sympathy like that makes for bad decisions. Bad decisions screw you the consumer more often than not. If a company isn't able to compete with the rest of the industry, that should tell you something. Even if it's due to the other company's bad business practices, or whatever, the fact remains that company B is getting it's ass kicked by company A. If company B doesn't turn things around who gets fucked? You do. Generally companies in turmoil don't often turn around, and while you can join the ranks of the few that support them, you may end up regretting that decision later. Or at least you'll suffer the cost of doing so in one way or another.

While championing some company you happen to like feels good, the fact is I've got to look out for number 1. That's me. (Or in your case, you.) I'll hedge my bets on the winner because throwing out money I didn't want to spend feels worse than supporting some "evil conglomerate." To some extent, brand loyalty, is always to be expected. However totally illogical and irrational support of a company in the face of inferior products and services makes no sense and will bite you in the ass every time. Loyalty to that degree is never deserved. Especially not by companies who are driven to perform based on shareholder demands and expectations. AMD and Intel are both publicly traded. You can personify either of them any way you wish, but the fact remains that one company has better business men working for it than the other. Personification of one as evil and the other as good, or as some kind of under dog, or friend in need, animal rescue or whatever is ludicrous. AMD would charge you $1,000 for FX processors if they thought they could get away with it. They actually charged more for their processors than Intel did during the Athlon 64 vs. Pentium D days.

They deserve no loyalty when their products are inferior. Now, that being said, AMD's products are more than worthy of your cash in certain price points and in certain markets. So this is just an example here of why brand loyalty is nuts and the so called "consideration of the behavior of a given company concerning every single item" is often misleading and a fallacy when you do not and can not know the whole picture. Let's take this even a step further. Intel has a better environmental track record than Apple. In fact Apple has a horrible environmental track record. The Toyota Prius contain nickel in their batteries (and large amounts of it too) which actually effect the environment more than my gas guzzling cars do. Yet all the trendy hipsters who buy anything Apple, drive VW's and Prius's etc. who spout the same "product / consumer responsibility" jargon aren't actually practicing what they preach. They claim to, but they only look into these things as far as they want to and only count the information that they wish to. Their loyalty to product A or product B is justified through false means. The truth is that people just buy whatever they want and because humans are relatively intelligent, you wouldn't believe the justifications they can invent to make themselves deserving (in their minds at least) of their smug arrogance and moral superiority.

And this is why brand loyalty taken to extremes is stupid.

You do have a point.

I actually was a little concerned about the warranty issue, so with my Saab I went ahead and leased it for 2 years. That way the leasing company paid the manufacturer the price for the car, so they got some much needed cash flow, and if it winds up being a dud, or the company folds, I'm only stuck with the car for 2 years :p

On the other hand - however - if everyone thought like you do, AMD would fold tomorrow due to lack of sales, and we'd wind up with a 0 competition market, in which CPU development would stagnate.

In a way, you are lucky there are people who take these stands and support the underdog, even when it is not deserved from a pure price/performance standpoint.


On a side note, regarding Prius batteries and Nickel mining.

The assertions above were popular in about 2004 when the Prius started to become popular. The stemmed from a - now widely discredited - study called "Dust to Dust: The Energy Cost of New Vehicles From Concept to Disposal".

This study was skewed in every possible way to try to discredit hybrids and the green movement, including tricks like basing calculations on a useable 100k mile life for a Prius vs a 380k mile life for a Hummer, 11 years for a Prius vs 35 years for a Hummer, and other bizarre and completely made up calculations backed by a political incentive.

Read this for more information.

Nickel production today is a fairly benign and controlled process. The researches in the original discredited "Dust to Dust" study had to cite articles dating back to the early 60's to find the type of environmental impacts they were looking for in order to hype their article. Yes, there is still a lot of environmental damage around the nickel plants in Sudbury, ON as referenced in the article, but this damage was done from the turn of the century through about the early 80's when increased attention caused these companies to clean up their acts. Even at that though, most of the environmental damage was caused by logging to fuel early smelting techniques resulting in mass deforestation, rather than the Nickel itself. Unfortunately the damage from decades of abuse doesn't go away overnight, but Sudbury Ontario - while environmentally damaged - is not the vast wasteland the article would have you believe, and is quite beautiful.

774px-Onaping_Falls.JPG


Nickel production today is quite clean and contained, though it does use quite a bit of electric power to power the heated smelters. This being Canada - however - a large portion of that power is hydroelectric.
 

JMccovery

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Zarathustra[H];1037661764 said:
On the other hand - however - if everyone thought like you do, AMD would fold tomorrow due to lack of sales, and we'd wind up with a 0 competition market, in which CPU development would stagnate.

But, we'd still have VIA... That's gotta count for something, right?
*crickets*
Thought so... :p
 

Zarathustra[H]

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How many did he fry?

Back in the day I didn't kill many t-birds, but before that I did kill quite a few K6-2 chips. I probably went through 5 or 6 of them.. but at ~$50 a pop they were fun to experiment with.

Last one I had was a K6-2 550 that I ran at 660 on an ASUS P5A. The board fried one day.. it was so sad.

I did break an Athlon XP chip into 3 pieces when I tightened my home-made waterblock down just a bit too tight.

hehe..

I never destroyed a K6... In fact I only ever owned one.

(Prior to the launch of the Athlon I always bought Intel chips for some reason.)

In college I'd take all the old hardware other people were getting rid of and do stuff with it. I ran a host of popular gaming servers for a while.

At about this time, someone gave me their old K6-2 600Mhz (if I recall properly) The K6-2 wasn't up to the task of being a good gaming server, but I gave it a nice overhaul, and some more ram and put it to use as a linux file sharing and web (direct connect hub + Apache) server under my desk.

It served dutifully there, until the motherboard started crapping out. While initially at 600Mhz, one day it was only stable at 550... and then a month later it was only stable at 500.... Eventually (over a period of about a year) it wouldn't boot at over 200mhz, and it eventually got recycled.
 

wra18th

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tangoseal

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Zarathustra[H];1037661339 said:
Nah, that's a bit too far even for me :p

I like the concept of being green and all, but the Prius is just too damned boring of a vehicle. (My wife loves hers for some crazy reason though).

My last purchase was a Saab. I wanted to support a brand I like that is at the risk of going under.

Thus far its a phenomenal vehicle :p


Saab 9-5 by mattlach, on Flickr

And it has had the added bonus of being the only one on the road I have seen. :) (Oh, and I can run it on E85 with a major power boost :p )

And now we have your license place number. LOL woot!
 

tangoseal

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Zarathustra[H];1037661764 said:
You do have a point.

I actually was a little concerned about the warranty issue, so with my Saab I went ahead and leased it for 2 years. That way the leasing company paid the manufacturer the price for the car, so they got some much needed cash flow, and if it winds up being a dud, or the company folds, I'm only stuck with the car for 2 years :p

On the other hand - however - if everyone thought like you do, AMD would fold tomorrow due to lack of sales, and we'd wind up with a 0 competition market, in which CPU development would stagnate.

In a way, you are lucky there are people who take these stands and support the underdog, even when it is not deserved from a pure price/performance standpoint.


On a side note, regarding Prius batteries and Nickel mining.

The assertions above were popular in about 2004 when the Prius started to become popular. The stemmed from a - now widely discredited - study called "Dust to Dust: The Energy Cost of New Vehicles From Concept to Disposal".

This study was skewed in every possible way to try to discredit hybrids and the green movement, including tricks like basing calculations on a useable 100k mile life for a Prius vs a 380k mile life for a Hummer, 11 years for a Prius vs 35 years for a Hummer, and other bizarre and completely made up calculations backed by a political incentive.

Read this for more information.

Nickel production today is a fairly benign and controlled process. The researches in the original discredited "Dust to Dust" study had to cite articles dating back to the early 60's to find the type of environmental impacts they were looking for in order to hype their article. Yes, there is still a lot of environmental damage around the nickel plants in Sudbury, ON as referenced in the article, but this damage was done from the turn of the century through about the early 80's when increased attention caused these companies to clean up their acts. Even at that though, most of the environmental damage was caused by logging to fuel early smelting techniques resulting in mass deforestation, rather than the Nickel itself. Unfortunately the damage from decades of abuse doesn't go away overnight, but Sudbury Ontario - while environmentally damaged - is not the vast wasteland the article would have you believe, and is quite beautiful.

774px-Onaping_Falls.JPG


Nickel production today is quite clean and contained, though it does use quite a bit of electric power to power the heated smelters. This being Canada - however - a large portion of that power is hydroelectric.

That water just looks like pure COLD.
 

Exeodus

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The only processor I managed to kill was a Q6600, with only 1.36 volts and less than 65c. And it died while idling :confused:. I have never managed to kill a AMD. I ran a Phenom 9850 to 100c within 10 seconds once because I forgot to remove the plastic cover on the bottom of the HSF :(. But it started right back up and is still running just fine. I have bent the pins of a 754 almost 90 degrees and was able to straighten them and it kept going.
 

vraa

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Insanity is TRUE!

Good news EVERYBODY
Turns out the third processor wasn't blown, it was a bad Asus M4A89GTD Pro
Now I have an extra 1100T CPU :(
I replaced the old motherboard with a Asus Crosshair Formula V
For my old 1100T I will have to find a Mini ATX motherboard, I will turn it into a car puter

FWIW, I have a 2600k Intel box as my daily at home and a dual processor Intel Xeon workstation at work, AMDs will always be my favorite though BECAUSE YOU CAN BLOW SHIT UP
 

tvdang7

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I'll take Intel's processor durability over AMD's any day of the week. They are built better and are much harder to kill.

To put things into perspective:

I've been building machines for over 16 years now. I've done it professionally in addition to doing it for myself. I also upgrade a lot more than most.

I could be wrong but didn't you go through like 100 nvidia 680i chipset boards or something LOL
 

RamonGTP

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I've killed 2 AMD processors and damaged 1. Never an Intel.

Had a Athlon XP 1700+ that just completely stopped working one day
Had a Athlon XP 2600+ that eventually got so unstable it was virtually unusable
Had a Athlon X2 4400+ that over the course of 2 years, needed to be over-volted to remain stable at stock speeds.
 

teletran8

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I couldn't kill mine with 1.7000[V]. I only need 1.6000[V] to get 4.0GHz Prime stable. Good to know my AMD CPU can handle extremes tho.
 

rampantandroid

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You must have tons of money laying around. You remind me of this rich dude I know who bought a 980x, 12GB of memory, a 5870, and a $300 mobo...and hasn't yet put it together (it's been a year).

An old coworker bought the i7 unlock quad core (don't feel like looking up which number that is :)) 8GB of RAM and a 9800 GX2...didn't overclock any. Just played FSX...at less than 1080p, IIRC. A part of me cried silently.

Also, I have NEVER killed a CPU. And I do overclock.
 
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