Bleak Faith: Forsaken – Dark Souls-Like ARPG

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LurkerLito

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From the reviews on steam, it sounds like I should hold off even after it's released on GoG as their return policy isn't as liberal as steam. Every review seems to say the analog controller is not working right and has some kind of long lag with parry's. That is pretty game breaking IMHO. I guess the small team of Developers mainly use KB/M as a control to test the game. Though I think I read one review that it said you can't remap KB/M controls. It's a shame really I really wanted to get this one after seeing some of the videos.
 
Domingo

Domingo

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With all of the trailers they specifically mention it was made by a tiny development team. IMO, that's not a selling point but is a reason to be wary. At least for a game with a scope like this.
 
horse

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LurkerLito said:
Though I think I read one review that it said you can't remap KB/M controls. It's a shame really I really wanted to get this one after seeing some of the videos.
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uh...

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1173220/view/3674412925826388412?l=english

"As you begin your journey through the Omnistructure, we recommend playing with mouse and keyboard. The keybindings are fully customizable through the in-depth settings, and can be catered to all preferences."
 
Domingo

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horse said:
"As you begin your journey through the Omnistructure, we recommend playing with mouse and keyboard. The keybindings are fully customizable through the in-depth settings, and can be catered to all preferences."
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oh-no-you-didnt-pout[1].gif
 
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LurkerLito

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horse said:
"As you begin your journey through the Omnistructure, we recommend playing with mouse and keyboard. The keybindings are fully customizable through the in-depth settings, and can be catered to all preferences."
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Good to know, but still doesn't really help for me as this is the type of game I want to play with a controller. Though it doesn't really matter since it's still not available on GoG even though I got a notification this wishlisted item is on sale. :LOL:
 
horse

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polonyc2

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sounds like it needs some patches but overall sounds really impressive for a game made by 3 people...good to also see that KB/M is the main input method...controllers are made for consoles, not PC ;)
 
horse

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chameleoneel said:
There are several more animations which are being compared on the internet. And they lined up basically exactly.

[/MEDIA]
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not only that but...

This boss here seems to have an almost identical moveset to one of the bosses from Lords of the Fallen (2014)
Though there may be a little variance, how to tell exactly from the short vid. But it seems to be to close for a coincidence especially now considering there is evidence out there.

Boss at 44 seconds in, timestamped


compared to LotF, timestamped @ 1:29
 
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Drexion

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'Legally' I think they're safe, there's only so many ways to swing a sword.
'Ethically' there may be some backlash from a small portion of the gaming community but this won't really be widespread, most people won't even know about it.
 
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chameleoneel

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Drexion said:
'Legally' I think they're safe, there's only so many ways to swing a sword.
'Ethically' there may be some backlash from a small portion of the gaming community but this won't really be widespread, most people won't even know about it.
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Even if they legally purchased the animations in a 'pack', it's still basically plagiarism, to fill much of your game with the same exact animations.
horse said:
not only that but...

This boss here seems to have an almost identical moveset to one of the bosses from Lords of the Fallen (2014)
Though there may be a little variance, how to tell exactly from the short vid. But it seems to be to close for a coincidence especially now considering there is evidence out there.

Boss at 44 seconds in, timestamped


compared to LotF, timestamped @ 1:29
Click to expand...

definitely not exactly the same as that LoTF boss. However, From Soft games have some spinners. Including Elden Ring. There are likely some much more similar spins in those, somewhere. If not exactly the same.
 
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polonyc2

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Drexion said:
'Legally' I think they're safe, there's only so many ways to swing a sword.
'Ethically' there may be some backlash from a small portion of the gaming community but this won't really be widespread, most people won't even know about it.
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I really don't see what the big deal is...all games copy other games...I don't think From Software or anyone else has copyrighted sword swings or enemy movement...at least they copied from the best
 
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LurkerLito

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chameleoneel said:
Even if they legally purchased the animations in a 'pack', it's still basically plagiarism, to fill much of your game with the same exact animations.
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If they bought a license to use a pack of mocap data they are well within their rights to use it as they see fit that is in no way ethically immoral or plagiarism. The only way this becomes a copyright violation is if they illegally used fromsoft's data without fromsoft's knowledge. That also applies if they bought the data from which the provider of the data stole the mocap data from fromsoft which would be a big pain for the game developer as they would have to stop sales and redo all the animations they bought from that vendor. But till there is actual proof or litigation comes out that something like that occurred I would hold off on any speculation. Now that it has hit the net I am sure Fromsoft is looking through the game to see if they can prove it is their data or not. Then again it could also just be that Fromsoft actually licensed that same mocap data from the same third party for their games first. There are a lot of vendors for various parts of video games, from music, sfx, mocap and all sorts of objects, you can find them and pay to save time on a project.
 
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chameleoneel

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LurkerLito said:
If they bought a license to use a pack of mocap data they are well within their rights to use it as they see fit that is in no way ethically immoral or plagiarism. The only way this becomes a copyright violation is if they illegally used fromsoft's data without fromsoft's knowledge. That also applies if they bought the data from which the provider of the data stole the mocap data from fromsoft which would be a big pain for the game developer as they would have to stop sales and redo all the animations they bought from that vendor. But till there is actual proof or litigation comes out that something like that occurred I would hold off on any speculation. Now that it has hit the net I am sure Fromsoft is looking through the game to see if they can prove it is their data or not. Then again it could also just be that Fromsoft actually licensed that same mocap data from the same third party for their games first. There are a lot of vendors for various parts of video games, from music, sfx, mocap and all sorts of objects, you can find them and pay to save time on a project.
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I disagree. Even if its a totally legit case where all of From Soft's animations for the souls games were purchased and not actually made by From Soft:

To make a game, where you go and buy all the same exact animations and deploy them in more/less exactly the same way and style; is some bullshit.
 
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LurkerLito

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chameleoneel said:
I disagree. Even if its a totally legit case where all of From Soft's animations for the souls games were purchased and not actually made by From Soft:

To make a game, where you go and buy all the same exact animations and deploy them in more/less exactly the same way and style; is some bullshit.
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So your contention is that if a game software company makes a popular game using a third party mocap data, the third party mocap should lose their rights to sell it and make money off of it? That would really be bullshit.

Edit: more info - https://www.bluesnews.com/s/257572/bleak-faith-forsaken-accused-of-using-elden-ring-animations
and later today ubermensch42 added, "I've submitted a ticket raising the concerns of the community to the Epic Customer Service and outlining the animation accusations. We decided to be preemptive as a sign of good faith and a generally very pleased customer at the Epic Marketplace. We'll let you know what they say about it and will respond accordingly.

"And a second point, we're not judges or versed in what is and isn't allowed, or who owns the rights to any of these animations. This is why we reached out, to get some confirmation about the person who makes these animations."
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Domingo

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I view it as a little bit lame, but I don't really have a problem with it. I purchase stock shit to use all the time for my job, so I totally get it. My only gripe is that they're leaning into their inspiration a little too hard for my tastes.
 
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chameleoneel

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LurkerLito said:
So your contention is that if a game software company makes a popular game using a third party mocap data, the third party mocap should lose their rights to sell it and make money off of it?
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Nope. That is not at all what I'm saying. And shouldn't even be extrapolated from what I said.
 
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w35t

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I know I should really wait for some patches but I'm just damn curious, want to see how I feel about it for myself. Installing now, will probably get at least a couple hours in and report back. I couldn't care less about the animation controversy.
 
horse

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I'll most likely grab this at some point myself. Some of it looks pretty good and some looks almost as if its still an unfinished WIP. Also, I can put up with a little wonkiness, all these games llike this are a little wonky in their own regard. Apparently there isn't any ng+ mode though, which doesn't really make sense for a game like this. And from I've seen it seems bows are op as hell
 
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LurkerLito

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Follow up on the asset situation: https://www.bluesnews.com/s/257612/bleak-faith-forsaken-elden-ring-animations-follow-up
As promised here is an update on the animation asset issue. We have heard back from the escalation team at Epic which was as follows:

“Pursuant to the Marketplace Distribution Agreement, each Marketplace seller represents and warrants to Epic that they have appropriate rights to upload their content. As with any store that hosts third-party content, however, Epic is not in a position to independently verify such rights, and Epic makes no such guarantee to purchasers of the content.”

So essentially, they state they cannot verify the copyright of the animation packages purchased through their store.

This is not satisfactory for us and so we have taken the decision to replace the assets purchased from the store over the next several days.
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Have to say that is some real BS from Epic. They are selling assets that they cannot guarantee are not stolen. Seriously WTF? They might as well shutter the Unreal asset store at this point IMHO any developer using it for commercial use is going to be like running through a minefield.
 
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polonyc2

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LurkerLito said:
This is not satisfactory for us and so we have taken the decision to replace the assets purchased from the store over the next several days
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why not just contact From Software and see if they get the OK?...replacing all the cool assets with possibly inferior ones seems a bit extreme
 
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chameleoneel

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LurkerLito said:
Follow up on the asset situation: https://www.bluesnews.com/s/257612/bleak-faith-forsaken-elden-ring-animations-follow-up

Have to say that is some real BS from Epic. They are selling assets that they cannot guarantee are not stolen. Seriously WTF? They might as well shutter the Unreal asset store at this point IMHO any developer using it for commercial use is going to be like running through a minefield.
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Yeah, I hope this gets some media coverage. Put some pressure on Epic. Maybe result in some legal pressure, if a lot of creators start doing their own 'review' of the Epic store's offerings.
 
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w35t

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Well, the game definitely needs some polish but I like a lot of what I'm seeing here. The environments and music are great. The kb/m controls feel pretty good, camera control with the mouse particularly so. I've only encountered one boss so far and it took me way more tries than I would have liked. I can't tell if the combat is difficult, if I just haven't quite figured it out yet, or if there's something not right with the hitboxes, could be a combination but something hasn't exactly clicked with me yet. I do like how you have to time your shots so you swing more quickly, definitely no button mashing here. Stamina management seems very much key, I found myself running out of it a lot. There are many divulging paths to explore all over the place, feels a little overwhelming at least for me early on. Anyway, looking forward to seeing how the game progresses, at $27 I'd say it's a solid buy, and should only improve from here.

Edit: Hell while I was typing this they released a small patch.

Changes:
-Middle Mouse is now keybindable.
-Updated animations.
-Unbinded Num5 from respawn.
-Corpses now disappear after 5 minutes, greatly reducing stutter on some machines.

Fixes:
-Fixed an issue that caused ability damage to be calculated wrongly post player death if certain rings were equipped.
-Possibly fixed Invincibility glitch in Monastery map.
 
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Comixbooks

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I guess controller support was patched already where it's pretty good now just after 4 days. Someone said on Steam it's the Best Souls clone so far.
 
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w35t

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polonyc2 said:
I love that the developers are really active as far as releasing updates...they've released 7 hotfixes/patches in the few days since the game was released...

"We will be doing a series of hotfixes over the course of the next few days, and then slowly transition into a weekly patch schedule"

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1173220?updates=true
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I skimmed the (what might be official?) Bleak Faith Facebook group and the devs at least appeared to be very active in responding to group member's complaints, comments, and concerns. Hard to gauge the legitimacy of it all but it seems sincere, looks like they are very committed and willing to put in the effort to make this game what we want it to be.
 
horse

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Just picked this up earlier while it was still on sale. I might just let this sit on the back burner and cook for a bit more before gettin into it. I figured I might as well go ahead and throw a little monetary support to the devs, as maybe the more profits they receive might keep them inspired to improve the game more and more.
 
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polonyc2

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w35t said:
Well, the game definitely needs some polish but I like a lot of what I'm seeing here. The environments and music are great. The kb/m controls feel pretty good, camera control with the mouse particularly so. I've only encountered one boss so far and it took me way more tries than I would have liked. I can't tell if the combat is difficult, if I just haven't quite figured it out yet, or if there's something not right with the hitboxes, could be a combination but something hasn't exactly clicked with me yet. I do like how you have to time your shots so you swing more quickly, definitely no button mashing here. Stamina management seems very much key, I found myself running out of it a lot. There are many divulging paths to explore all over the place, feels a little overwhelming at least for me early on. Anyway, looking forward to seeing how the game progresses, at $27 I'd say it's a solid buy, and should only improve from here
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did you finish the game?
 
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