Bitcoin Slide Continues Towards $8K

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Facts are facts, many more GPU's are used and sold to gamers than to miners. Todays shortages are more results of cell phones tying up the memory manufacturers making DDR5(x) more scarce.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12380/amd-to-ramp-up-gpu-production-ram-a-limiting-factor

Nowhere in that article does it state that gamers are buying more cards then miners.

"Oh, I only have twenty cards for my mining rig" <--- what gamer would have more than one card in a typical rig?

RAM manufacturing capacity limits only excacerbates the issue.

Do you really think a 1080 Ti would be at $1100 on eBay if there was DDR4 supply issues without crypto mining demand?
 
And because of miners like you we have a video card for sale that we can buy pre-price gouged direct from Newegg. $679... what a deal!

Why don't you try and find a "fool-proof" method that gets a new card closer to MSRP since all of us engineers and technical professionals on this forum are "too stupid" and "too lazy" to figure it out. We'll wait.

Such a circle-jerk waste of electricity for a speculative market that still hasn't provided any value beyond buying illegal shit on Silk Road 4.0
You have every opportunity to buy a video card as I did, if you choose badly, not mindful -> I recommend you look in the mirror first vice point fingers at folks more like you then you think. You or I are not that much different other then the choices we make.
 
Nowhere in that article does it state that gamers are buying more cards then miners.

"Oh, I only have twenty cards for my mining rig" <--- what gamer would have more than one card in a typical rig?

RAM manufacturing capacity limits only excacerbates the issue.

Do you really think a 1080 Ti would be at $1100 on eBay if there was DDR4 supply issues without crypto mining demand?
We calculated the numbers previously in another thread - gamers dwarf miners in video cards. For the few that own a few rigs there are literally thousands of gamers with video cards. So even the argument that some gamers come up with falls short.
 
Nowhere in that article does it state that gamers are buying more cards then miners.

Don't use his lack of evidence as the opposite evidence for you.

Do you really think a 1080 Ti would be at $1100 on eBay if there was DDR4 supply issues without crypto mining demand?

I agree, no they wouldn't be $1100. But would they be $1100 if there wasn't a memory shortage?

I bet they would be even more expensive if everyone gamed and bought a high end gpu. Who would you hate then, your fellow gammers?
 
Also, be careful guys... There are new ways to mine like Proof of Capacity mining. Secure your storage needs now!!! I'm going on 100tb, not profitable yet but I am part of something.
 
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Also, be careful guys... There are new ways to mine like Proof of Capacity mining. Secure your storage needs now!!! I'm going on 100tb, not profitable yet but I am part of something.
:ROFLMAO:, it won't just be GPU's in short demand and high prices. I wished you have kept quiet about that until I got my 100 1TB SSDs in racks. . .

Cell phones massive DDR4 usage has diverted memory manufacturers away from DDR5(x), cell phones has more to do with the shortages then miners or wait, gamers demand also plays into this since they still actually buy more video cards then just plain miners.
 
For all the good that mining does, you might as well be racing to stuff paper balls into a plastic bag and whoever gets the most in, wins a virtual slice of a virtual coin. Toss the bag into the landfill and continue.

Find another way to to do crypto which does not negatively impact so many things and everyone will be happy. Stop supporting the asinine method being used today! But the cryptocrazies will not do that. Nope.

Of course it just lumps in the cryptocrazies with most people who refuse to give up their toys no matter the negative impact on others. It is the social status quo. Does not mean I have to like it.
 
Don't use his lack of evidence as the opposite evidence for you.

I agree, no they wouldn't be $1100. But would they be $1100 if there wasn't a memory shortage?

I bet they would be even more expensive if everyone gamed and bought a high end gpu. Who would you hate then, your fellow gammers?

Nice theoretical. When would every PC gamer buy a high end GPU? Never...

Gamers don't go out and buy a video card en masse unless a new one comes out. They also don't buy them in bulk every single day like we saw through the last six or so months of 2017 and early into 2018.

Maybe we need to compare new video card prices when they are supply-constrained at launch to see what delta is made versus our current bubble. I'll bet the markup is still smaller....
 
For all the good that mining does, you might as well be racing to stuff paper balls into a plastic bag and whoever gets the most in, wins a virtual slice of a virtual coin. Toss the bag into the landfill and continue.

Find another way to to do crypto which does not negatively impact so many things and everyone will be happy. Stop supporting the asinine method being used today! But the cryptocrazies will not do that. Nope.

Of course it just lumps in the cryptocrazies with most people who refuse to give up their toys no matter the negative impact on others. It is the social status quo. Does not mean I have to like it.
Sorry, I do what I want, as long as it is not illegal with the stuff I buy - your opportunity was no less than mine in the marketplace and what you do with your assets I could care less and would not dictate what you should or should not do as long as it is legal. Bitcoin is way up, even today compared to 1 year ago - very bright future.
 
Nice theoretical. When would every PC gamer buy a high end GPU? Never...

Gamers don't go out and buy a video card en masse unless a new one comes out. They also don't buy them in bulk every single day like we saw through the last six or so months of 2017 and early into 2018.

Maybe we need to compare new video card prices when they are supply-constrained at launch to see what delta is made versus our current bubble. I'll bet the markup is still smaller....
The actual number of folks buying in bulk is probably very low, makes a good picture and could seem endless. AMD indicated 1/3 which yes is very significant demand increase, that I do believe was 4th quarter last year, height of the most recent bubble. Today that is probably way less and I do expect to see more and more video cards available as time goes on. For miners, today prices on video cards and returns is not nearly as good as it was last year so that will drive less sells for just mining uses.
 
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Sorry, I do what I want, as long as it is not illegal with the stuff I buy - your opportunity was no less than mine in the marketplace and what you do with your assets I could care less and would not dictate what you should or should not do as long as it is legal. Bitcoin is way up, even today compared to 1 year ago - very bright future.


Sure, you can do what you want. I chose not to support something which wastes an enormous amount of electricity. You do realize Bitcoin, as it is currently designed/implemented, is unsustainable? It is not a matter of if the bubble is going to burst, it is only a matter of when will it burst. Other cryptocrap may prove to be better, long term.

By the way, I have as much right to complain about miners as you do to mine. We just have to be respectful about it.
 
You do realize Bitcoin, as it is currently designed/implemented, is unsustainable?

I think it is sustainable, but even if it isn't... it is software. The internet wasn't sustainable as first designed... but things get changed and updated.
 
Hope my "real" investments dont tank like they did last time btc dropped in price. Lost a few grand over about a week. Granted that was a little over 1% but 1% in a week is fairly huge
 
I can complain in this thread, but the problem is less miners and more that there just aren't many models on the market.

Well the memory situation certainly isn't helping!

Personally, I'm on the nVidia list to be alerted for the 1060; when I got an alert recently I was on the bus and didn't notice...by the time I got back to my computer and did, the cards were gone again. I'll probably get one sooner or later...it just sucks to have to wait to buy a Founder's Edition card (which is already marked up $50).
 
Why is crypto still making headlines? Its volatility is as erratic as Trump is. It's not a surprise.... at all......

until crypto tanks to nothing and gpu prices go back to normal, I don't give a shit lol
 
Do not buy used mining equipment. Let them eat their costs. Free money schemes attract unsavory people and used mining hardware is less reliable (in my limited anecdotal experience).

Last time around I got stuck with a bunch of money in Paypal limbo. The working 290s I did get have slowly failed. I still have 1 290x but the DisplayPort output is dead.
I've had a 290 unlocked to 290x running for around 4 years non-stop mining around 80c. It's fine.

This whole "used mining cards are unreliable" thing is laughable.

Miners don't overvolt. They're not degrading like an overclocked cpu.
 
It might be shorter, but I bet it will still outlast its usefulness. It's the same thing as an overclocked CPU. So instead of 30 years worth of service, you get 15 years because of the increased voltage and heat. People are trying to buy ones that are binned for a higher overclock. You really never know what you're going to get when you buy anything used, and I don't think it's fair to say that miners are purposely going to lie about it. If anything, they are the ones tweaking everything to fit in their heat/power requirements and independent of your opinion of them, they still are looking at running them cooler than the average gamer who is looking for maximum performance.

I stand by my statement that miner cards are generally better than gamer cards (assuming you're ok with buying used cards period).
I guess question is what price are you going to pay for that card? Are you going to pay close to the original MSRP? Or are you going to buy cheaper? I'm not buying a used card that I could get at the same price for new a few months ago....if you do then I question why this is even a topic. Buying used [miner cards] at full retail is not a smart move. Just wait until it settles back in to the "real" price of the card and not inflated. Don't pay inflated prices is pretty much what i'm saying. The demand for cards will drop off and so will prices.
FYI when I say I don't trust people its aimed at everyone not just crypto miners.
 
I guess question is what price are you going to pay for that card? Are you going to pay close to the original MSRP? Or are you going to buy cheaper? I'm not buying a used card that I could get at the same price for new a few months ago....if you do then I question why this is even a topic. Buying used [miner cards] at full retail is not a smart move. Just wait until it settles back in to the "real" price of the card and not inflated. Don't pay inflated prices is pretty much what i'm saying. The demand for cards will drop off and so will prices.
FYI when I say I don't trust people its aimed at everyone not just crypto miners.

Depends on how bad I need a card. If new cards are OOS, and I need a card, and I can find a used card for new card pricing...I'd probably buy one. Yes, you're right. Demand will drop off. When is the key question.

If demand dries up and cards are readily available at normal MSRP, would I hesitate buying a miner card if it were 25% off? Probably not. But that's unique to me. I don't keep cards that long as I'm always playing around with new stuff. If you're buying and planning to keep for several years, the warranty might make more sense to you.
 
Why would you want it to pop?

A lot of hate in this thread...

I have yet to see a single real world implementation of a blockchain that is economically viable. The coins are useless as currencies because of the wild volatility and speculation, and traditional databases seem to be cheaper, faster, and more secure for most situations. Even in situations where a blockchain might make sense like tracking food products from multiple suppliers to customers you don't see it implemented because it's not worthwhile.

If all this speculation isn't generating any real new value then it's bound to eventually collapse.
 
I also get amazed at how long this complaining about miners taking up the video cards which yes they are but gamers have money as well, no difference in availability either to a gamer then to a miner. I've have yet seen 5-10 or more gamers get together and buy a bulk volume of video cards that can sell for cheaper then a single card. A reasonable price? What dictates the price is the market, not one hopes or think they should be at, GPU uses are exploding in all areas.
There is a big difference between gamers and miners. A gamer's video cards are a need that can be satisfied. If a gamer gets a video card, he's done. One satisfied customer; Out of the market until the next generation. A miner's need cannot be satisfied because it is a number, and numbers are infinite. So no matter how many video cards they buy, they can still make more numbers with more video cards. And they can keep adding video cards forever and there will still be more numbers that they can make. And once their tanker has no more room for any more nodes, you can plunk another tanker right next to it and start filling it too. The amount of GPUs needed to not-satisfy the 12 great miners would satisfy hundreds of thousands of gamers and the 12 great miners are still buying, whereas those thousands of gamers would not be.

I bet they would be even more expensive if everyone gamed and bought a high end gpu. Who would you hate then, your fellow gammers?
If everyone games on a high end GPU, then production of high end GPUs would increase. The problem with mining is that it's too unstable for companies to increase production to compensate.

Miners' arguments seem to exist in an alternate reality where this is the first time a GPU is produced. There have been 18 GPU generations and we know what trends to expect.
- If a new GPU generation's MSRP is more expensive than what we're used to in previous generations, we don't say, "it's supply and demand," because there is a history and an expectation derived from that history, and companies are supposed to design their supply to match those expectations.
- If a new GPU generation does not drop below MSRP a couple of months after launch, it will also cause insatisfaction because, again, there is a history and an expectation from 18 previous generations of GPU releases.
And, yes, if supply and demand make the prices higher than what we expect based on history, the only thing we can do is make a purchasing decision based what the prices actually are. That's true. But it's also true that the normal human reaction is to be sulky and unsatisfied about it.
 
A reasonable price? What dictates the price is the market, not one hopes or think they should be at, GPU uses are exploding in all areas.
Well it's kind of like this:

~1996 - Early 2017 = price dictated by the MSRB. The price tag remains the same for a card or goes down over time.
Late 2017 - Now = price dictated by the market, big swings up, short supply, free market paradise

So uh, 21 years of being able to rely on fixed prices and 8-9 months of total free market wheeling and dealing. That's a bit of a shift.
 
Where are the cheap used mining cards!?!?!

C'mon someone has to dip out sooner or later... I want a card for the Node 202 please!

The influx of used video cards might not be as sharp as you think since they are used for mining other types of cryptocurrencies. A stable slide in Bitcoin certainly will affect the value of others since Bitcoin is usually used as an intermediary to cash out, but some of those other coins have established a strong market of their own and are easily traded directly for cash/services (especially ETH).

You can always pick up less power efficient cards for cheap since smart miners are getting rid of those.
 
Also, be careful guys... There are new ways to mine like Proof of Capacity mining. Secure your storage needs now!!! I'm going on 100tb, not profitable yet but I am part of something.
Something other than burstcoin?
 
I don't think burstcoin is going to gain any traction until you can make more than $8 a month with a $300 10TB drive.
Yeah, not worth it unless you have drives already that are empty and most people have stuff on their drives. Sounds like this guy is talking about something new on the horizon though.
 
I think crypto has slowed down a bit.
I can actually find some GTX 1070/Ti and 1080/Ti at brick and mortar PC stores, albiet about 50% overpriced.

Before that, it was "literally nothing" in stock.
 
I think in another month there will be plenty of cards available.
 
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I'm on target to get another card in under a month. I've got more important things this month, but will buy a 1070 TI or higher when I do. However I find cards set up on alerts still that would be cheap enough I could just get one and not worry about it.. Except I get the in stock alert while I'm under a car at work and can't just drop what I'm doing to go buy a video card.. So I'll likely have to spend a slight bit extra to buy a card on my time. I shut down mining because it wasn't worth it. I didn't have enough GPU power to make it worth it and I was pretty much breaking even when I finally shut down, and sitting on $50 profit per month ( at best, after power cost ) does not make sense to turn into a long term investment
 
I have yet to see a single real world implementation of a blockchain that is economically viable.

I think you are confusing blockchain technology with cryptocurrency.

Something other than burstcoin?

Saicoin
BURST
Storj - Technically I'm not sure Storj is PoC...
Filecoin - Not ready yet, but IPFS might change everything

I don't think burstcoin is going to gain any traction until you can make more than $8 a month with a $300 10TB drive.

8tb Western Digital Red drives can be easily gotten for $139 - $159 if you do the work. Right now one will make about $1.25-$1.50 per tb if you know what you are doing. I said it wasn't very profitable, but it is about being part of something new and helping figure out what will work.

One of the purposes of PoC is for renting out your storage and creating a more secure network than Dropbox.

Yeah, not worth it unless you have drives already that are empty and most people have stuff on their drives. Sounds like this guy is talking about something new on the horizon though.

Someone once said the same thing about cpu mining, gpu mining... It's only worth doing when you are not gaming. The tech on the horizon is Filecoin and IPFS.
 
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