Bitcoin Minus $119B..with a B

Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
11,534
If I didn't know better, I might get the idea that this site has a problem with cryptocurrency miners like me.

I only have four 1080s, four 1070tis, six 1070s, four 1060s, and a TitanXP mining. Don't hate on me.
If only you were using those GPUs for BOINC projects or Folding@Home...
Say no to crypto mining and join Team 33 today! :cool:
 

Master_shake_

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
17,795
mfw watching the crypto market.

tenor.gif
 

WhoMe

Gawd
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
827
If I didn't know better, I might get the idea that this site has a problem with cryptocurrency miners like me.

I only have four 1080s, four 1070tis, six 1070s, four 1060s, and a TitanXP mining. Don't hate on me.
That's quite a gambling addiction you have there (yeah, I know you sell it to the gamblers, a fine point I'll ignore ;) ).
 

EJ42

n00b
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
45
That's quite a gambling addiction you have there (yeah, I know you sell it to the gamblers, a fine point I'll ignore ;) ).
Would it make you feel any better to know that I bought them all before the crazy price jump, back when they came with free games and cash rebates? They all paid for themselves many times over during the bubble. I'm just mining now to hold onto lots of different coins in case it all hits the fan and fiat currencies go in the toilet. Maybe my crypto stash will keep me fed during WW3.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
6,735
And from April 4 2017 at $1132.76 to April 4 2018 $7413.89, Bitcoin increased 655% - so yes it does depend how one looks at it. Predicting tomorrow is another matter.

As for ASICs, Monero, Electroneum and others will implement a even more resistive algorithm or series of algorithms making ASICs not cost effective to make or design. Ravencoin uses 16 different hashes, rotating and is 1000x more efficient than Bitcoin, well claimed that is, making an ASIC for it is claimed to be impractical to impossible (might as well design a GPU or CPU). R&D and improvements on the different coins are happening.

The problem with ASICs is how powerful they are at mining a particular coin which if enough are grouped together, can give that 51% threshold of controlling the Blockchain - at which point you can do virtually anything you want with it as in double spend over and over again. Keeping it more decentralized ensures integrity of the blockchain. Coins that cannot protect the blockchain will die.

The unfortunate thing in my opinion is I am not seeing the scam coins folding up, some say 98% of the coins will fail, just not seeing that at this point.

As for Cryptocurrencies, probably here to stay in some form or fashion.
 

a20012001

n00b
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
24
I want crypto's banned from everything so computer parts prices are sane and ASICs are being made for actual useful niches. Banks should just ban electronic exchanges so fiat conversion becomes complicated and then it would be all over. They already banned credit card use so next is debit then every other means. Just say it is for fraud prevention and call it a day.
 
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Deleted member 93354

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And from April 4 2017 at $1132.76 to April 4 2018 $7413.89, Bitcoin increased 655% - so yes it does depend how one looks at it. Predicting tomorrow is another matter.

As for ASICs, Monero, Electroneum and others will implement a even more resistive algorithm or series of algorithms making ASICs not cost effective to make or design. Ravencoin uses 16 different hashes, rotating and is 1000x more efficient than Bitcoin, well claimed that is, making an ASIC for it is claimed to be impractical to impossible (might as well design a GPU or CPU). R&D and improvements on the different coins are happening.

The problem with ASICs is how powerful they are at mining a particular coin which if enough are grouped together, can give that 51% threshold of controlling the Blockchain - at which point you can do virtually anything you want with it as in double spend over and over again. Keeping it more decentralized ensures integrity of the blockchain. Coins that cannot protect the blockchain will die.

The unfortunate thing in my opinion is I am not seeing the scam coins folding up, some say 98% of the coins will fail, just not seeing that at this point.

As for Cryptocurrencies, probably here to stay in some form or fashion.

Ravencoin isn't safe either. You could alter the block but fpgas in the chip microcode can handle such additions. Anytime you strip away the unneeded extras you make the chip more efficient, cooler and faster. Then you add in circuits in the pipe which follow the alorithms design. So if you have a mimd followed by simd then you create two dedicated execution units for each.

Designing Asics has become a fairly simple task. In fact you can design chips in a c like language and a computer program draws out the circuits. Next, if you need to, then you hand tune them. So a basic pipe is easy. Therefore making a basic Asics is easy. However a well designed pipe takes a tremendous architect.

The cost comes from r&d tapeout and testing
 
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kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
29,782
I want crypto's banned from everything so computer parts prices are sane and ASICs are being made for actual useful niches. Banks should just ban electronic exchanges so fiat conversion becomes complicated and then it would be all over. They already banned credit card use so next is debit then every other means. Just say it is for fraud prevention and call it a day.

Nobody likes a whiner....
 
D

Deleted member 93354

Guest
You forgot people wish you go to the seventh level of hell.

If simply using a video card to mine a code that gives me some sort of item that can be traded and are sometimes called credits, then all banks, video games etc., heck buying a pizza would also get you in hell.

The fees are way down now that every person with a PC isn't trying to mine or send Bitcoin.

Is cash next to go away after crypto? All the negatives are true for cash and really lots of other types of currency too. Anyway, when cash is gone, let me know.

Basically this board is not a place for a gamer and miner to feel too welcome. That's OK, I still hold my head up and defend my position, I've learned a thing or two on these boards and it's been worth the occasional hater. I just try to educate, except not sure there are many potential converts, they have some real hate. Didn't a puppet once say:

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

If 90% of what you supports crime and leaders like Kim (lil pork chop) and you turn a blind eye to it, then that's on you. I could care less about your pizzas. Your choice not mine. People only want to look at their short term gains versued long term consequences.

I've really had a change of heart the last couple of months. It is a big deal if others around me break the law and I don't. Before I just shrugged my shoulders if I stayed on the right side of the law. But now I realize how this affects me and others long term.
 
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Olle P

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
331
Isn't the truth just that the USD is finally gaining some value after having dropped like a rock (compared to BTC)?
 

digitalwanderer

Long Time No See
Joined
Aug 21, 2004
Messages
141
The only reason I've ever had an interest in mining was so that I could form a corporation or some LLC type thing where I could write off any hardware/losses. The idea of being able to write-off hardware PC and deduct 'em from our taxes has been a long held dream of mine.

Sorry, just enjoying the thread and the thought came to mind. I figure someone here can either quickly shoot it down for me, tell me I'm a jeaneous, or make some amusing comment/burn out of it at least.

Thanks for letting me hang occasionally, it's nice to still have a couple of real forums around and the only other one I can seem to manage lately is Beyond3D and it's not got quite the same activity level/participation/fun threads developing out of news story threads. Sincere thanks and compliments to all, it ain't easy to keep a community together this long.
 

digitalwanderer

Long Time No See
Joined
Aug 21, 2004
Messages
141
Isn't the truth just that the USD is finally gaining some value after having dropped like a rock (compared to BTC)?
No clue, HATE financial stuff. Makes my brain hurt.

All I know for sure is that I did see the dotcom crash coming as well as the junk bond crash, people kept telling me I didn't understand enough about finances to get it but I figured I did know enough about common sense and what was going on to see that they were assigning artificial values to worthless things; and I got a prediction about the crypto craze too:

I'm not sure when, but it's gonna crash and crash hard and it's gonna do it at internet speed and make the dotcom crash look like a slow motion train wreck. The good thing is it'll mostly be people who invest in crypto that get burned more than the miners, the miners are basically making money for free and as much as I hate what they're doing to the hardware scene I can't really blame them and if I had the capital/time/interest I'd probably have a little miner going myself. (I've thought of mining to afford a gaming rig, I'm back to 10 year old tech and haven't been gaming in a while. LOL )

Sorry, mornings bring out the babbling in me.
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
535
Maybe my crypto stash will keep me fed during WW3.

1. Power stations work properly during WW3 and have enough resources left on a damaged infrastructure for you to keep on trading with other ( hopefully not dead ) people across the globe that are now involved in a world war.

2. Your not conscripted to fight.

3. Your not vaporized.


?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F12XDYvMJNcmLgQ%2Fgiphy.gif
 
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Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,830
Isn't the truth just that the USD is finally gaining some value after having dropped like a rock (compared to BTC)?
What? A lot of things have gone down in price compared to 6 years ago, including imported goods. CPI is useless.
 

SomeoneElse

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
1,941
They're welcome to. I'll make them a brew and tell them all about it. I don't live in the US. I also declared all capital gains on my return and fully paid taxes due. Cleared it with my accountant also. Not everyone is a tax dodger, people should be applauding this, rather than international companies doing it and avoiding any taxes due.
Well most people in the US are tax dodgers, glad you are more upright than most. (y) Here in the US no one is allowed to make more money than the government thinks you should. If you do they want to take a large chunk of it from you because "other people need it".
 

oROEchimaru

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Messages
4,662
I'm just trying to make a point here that currently bitcoin is not financially stable for the long run when you consider the cost it would put on energy, the environment and our video cards. CHIA and other currencies may be a success or failure but they show that "more energy efficient" platforms are needed. Also real use cases are awesome (RIPPLE/XRP, ICON, VERGE ETC) however they to at this time are in their infancy and seem to be "valuable" when bitcoin is succeeding. At this time the bot trading, day trading, mass investors (end of December 2017) , news etc cause many currencies to sink/swim together (and many flash in the pan currencies with no purpose to go up 10000035% in a few days from an ico of $.00000001).

I hope they succeed though in the long run! I just think we are still in the infancy of crypto.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,933
Well most people in the US are tax dodgers, glad you are more upright than most. (y) Here in the US no one is allowed to make more money than the government thinks you should. If you do they want to take a large chunk of it from you because "other people need it".

Taxes and government spending are a lot more nuanced then what you think.
 

SomeoneElse

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
1,941
Taxes and government spending are a lot more nuanced then what you think.
I served in the military and I know how much is wasted in spending, the government is the worst at handling money. They also are largely used to launder money into their "constituents'" pockets. Its all a big joke really.
 

PaulP

Gawd
Joined
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Messages
776
This volatility is no surprise to me since the act of "mining" a virtual coin produces nothing of any real value. The price simply reflects what people are willing to trade them for. Belief is a powerful thing.
 
D

Deleted member 93354

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I served in the military and I know how much is wasted in spending, the government is the worst at handling money. They also are largely used to launder money into their "constituents'" pockets. Its all a big joke really.

So you don't agree with the system you are a part of.

So does that give you the right to buck it's laws or your taxes?

I hate to tell ya that The Supreme Court says "no." .it's been tried before by people who didn't want to pay money in taxes on abortion because it went against their beliefs. They lost.
 

triwolf

Gawd
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
708
If 90% of what you supports crime and leaders like Kim (lil pork chop) and you turn a blind eye to it, then that's on you. I could care less about your pizzas. Your choice not mine. People only want to look at their short term gains versues long term consequences.

I've really had a change of heart the last couple of months. It is a big deal if others around me break the law and I don't. Before I just shrugged my shoulders if I stayed on the right side of the law. But now I realize how this affects me and others long term.

So if you were a teacher and a few kids are acting bad in the classroom, then they all get punished? I always loathed people like that. Enjoy your communist utopia, it never turns out like they say it will.

Also, you didn't answer the fact that other items and currencies and cash can be used for evil too. Ban it all huh? Highly illogical.

It's "couldn't care less". If you could care less, then you actually care right?
 
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SomeoneElse

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
1,941
So you don't agree with the system you are a part of.

So does that give you the right to buck it's laws or your taxes?

I hate to tell ya that The Supreme Court says "no." .it's been tried before by people who didn't want to pay money in taxes on abortion because it went against their beliefs. They lost.
No sure what you are talking about. I pay my taxes. If you read my comments above I said a lot of people DON'T pay their taxes. I was complimenting the guy for reporting his earning and paying his due.
You're not even speaking in the same context I was talking about.
Doesn't change the fact that the US government always wants a cut from crap that doesn't belong to them regardless of tax laws that technically don't exist for crypto.
 
D

Deleted member 93354

Guest
No sure what you are talking about. I pay my taxes. If you read my comments above I said a lot of people DON'T pay their taxes. I was complimenting the guy for reporting his earning and paying his due.
You're not even speaking in the same context I was talking about.
Doesn't change the fact that the US government always wants a cut from crap that doesn't belong to them regardless of tax laws that technically don't exist for crypto.
My bad. I thought you were justifying crypto as a way to not pay unfair taxes.
 
D

Deleted member 93354

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So if you were a teacher and a few kids are acting bad in the classroom, then they all get punished? I always loathed people like that. Enjoy your communist utopia, it never turns out like they say it will.

Also, you didn't answer the fact that other items and currencies and cash can be used for evil too. Ban it all huh? Highly illogical.

It's "couldn't care less". If you could care less, then you actually care right?

How are you punished if crypto is outlawed? Are there not viable alternatives which can be traded as cash other than Fiat currency?

Answer: yes there are. Gold silver copper titanium oil...all backed by a pysical object. It's called commodities. You might have heard of it.

Hedge against inflation? Yep
Stable value telative to inflation? Yes
Can be traded for goods and services? Yes
Easy to use in crime? Not nearly as easily as crypto

Requeires massive amounts of power to create? No

Your analogy is kind of stupid anyway.

The kids are the vast majority. And they are pulling knives on one another. Do I have a right to ban all kids from having knives? You bet ya'

Try harder.
 
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triwolf

Gawd
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
708
How are you punished if crypto is outlawed? Are there not viable alternatives which can be traded as cash other than Fiat currency?

Answer: yes there are. Gold silver copper titanium oil...all backed by a physical object. It's called commodities. You might have heard of it.

Hedge against inflation? Yep
Stable value telative to inflation? Yes
Can be traded for goods and services? Yes
Easy to use in crime? Not nearly as easily as crypto

Requeires massive amounts of power to create? No
I think you are grasping at staws to prove you hate crypto so much. I am tired of answering the same questions on this board. The banks already use a very crypto like system, it's called credit cards and wire transfers.

How about we let the market decide. I'm doing well with my market price that I got for my coins. And I don't feel bad at all for being a person that sees the good it can do, and recognize the problems, except I don't go down the path of hate, I went down the path of knowledge, and it paid very well. How is your hate paying?
 
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Deleted member 93354

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I think you are grasping at staws to prove you hate crypto so much. I am tired of answering the same questions on this board. The banks already use a very crypto like system, it's called credit cards and wire transfers.

How about we let the market decide. I'm doing well with my market price that I got for my coins. And I don't feel bad at all for being a person that sees the good it can do, and recognize the problems, except I don't go down the path of hate, I went down the path of knowledge, and it paid very well. How is your hate paying?
Your analogy still sucked. You're grasping for straws to justify free money.

Credits cards are based on cash btw. Hardly crypto.

I get tired of weak arguments.
 

EJ42

n00b
Joined
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Messages
45
I think you are grasping at staws to prove you hate crypto so much. I am tired of answering the same questions on this board. The banks already use a very crypto like system, it's called credit cards and wire transfers.

How about we let the market decide. I'm doing well with my market price that I got for my coins. And I don't feel bad at all for being a person that sees the good it can do, and recognize the problems, except I don't go down the path of hate, I went down the path of knowledge, and it paid very well. How is your hate paying?
I've learned not to try to debate irrational people. It's like discussing politics with your dog, except your dog likes you and just wants a treat.
 

EJ42

n00b
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
45
Your analogy still sucked. You're grasping for straws to justify free money.

Credits cards are based on cash btw. Hardly crypto.

I get tired of weak arguments.
I'm going to break my own rule just to ROFLMAO at you.

What in the actual HELL do you think banks and stock brokers do? How do you think a damned savings account works? Investing in ANYTHING is about getting "free money" as you called it.

Cryptomining is not free. It requires an investment in space, equipment, time, energy, and much more. You choose to let your childish anger, at not being able to afford cheap gaming toys due to the "big bad mining guy" being willing to pay more for them, color your view of a legitimate technology. Blockchain technology is good. It's here to stay. We don't care that you don't like it. Grow up.
 

triwolf

Gawd
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
708
Your analogy still sucked. You're grasping for straws to justify free money.

Credits cards are based on cash btw. Hardly crypto.

I get tired of weak arguments.
Last words don't make you right. You lie and then use lies to justify your flawed logic, you can't even say "couldn't care less" correctly. Same old same old, lots of wrong answers on this board. Be careful anyone reading this. There are some real dull tools on here.
 

Patton187

Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
669
I bought many GPU's, then mined with them, then sold half of them for a profit. I then took that profit, and the profit made from mining and spent it on luxury products and school fees. The rest are still mining away and I intend on doing the same thing. I've made my investment back many fold already. Not a single one of them has ever played a game, and never will.

The only thing I'm choking on is glee, and money.
Oh your choking on something else, you just dont realize it.
 
D

Deleted member 93354

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I'm going to break my own rule just to ROFLMAO at you.

What in the actual HELL do you think banks and stock brokers do? How do you think a damned savings account works? Investing in ANYTHING is about getting "free money" as you called it.

Cryptomining is not free. It requires an investment in space, equipment, time, energy, and much more. You choose to let your childish anger, at not being able to afford cheap gaming toys due to the "big bad mining guy" being willing to pay more for them, color your view of a legitimate technology. Blockchain technology is good. It's here to stay. We don't care that you don't like it. Grow up.

When you buy stocks, you invest in a company. That company repays you in one of two ways: Increased value through growth, or an earning per share. The result of which is because the company produces something of value. That's the vast majority of the stock market.

Now there are things I don't agree that are a little swarmy on the stock market. For example you can place "wagers" against stock if it makes or exceeds target, or fails. That really doesn't produce anything but gambling IMHO. But a large and whole the stock market is solid and based on something real: Product. I'm counting futures, commodities, regular stocks, bond offerings, securities, real estate. They represent about 99% of what I'm invested in.
 
D

Deleted member 93354

Guest
funny but goes both ways. to us, rational people can see the problems with crypto.

Quite right. Depends on which side of the fence you sit on.

People argue that people like me are mad because of card prices. Again, I could drop $2K on a card and not bat an eye. It's the ethics I don't like. They don't care because they get free stuff.

It's irony when you think about it. I laugh whenever I see the Pizza analogy. Provided your equipment ALREADY is paid off, and you make about $1/day on crypto mining/machine. That pizza is about 20 days of mining, running near full tilt on electricity. (Time you take into account fees and buffers the FEW businesses that do take coin put in to account for instability) That better be a hell of a pizza. I could work a job in fast food for 2.0 hours and pay for that pizza AFTER taxes.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
6,735
Wealth is not stagnant, value and things that are made alllow wealth to grow.

Creating new terms in how things are traded also occurs, barter, coins of silver and gold. Then paper money that could make a good flame but it represented a form of value backed by a government. It took over because how easy it was to carry, count. Then something even more having little value in itself and that was credit, the value was the promise one would pay back with a little bit extra.

Along came the internet age, PayPal, online credit etc.

Crypto currency is really not that much different, people decide the value of it, not much different then a government which are run by people and hopefully represent the people. Most fiat currencies have failed, most crypto currency will also most likely fail.

The advantages of crypto currency are immense. Maybe potential is a better word. It can reach places banks cannot, move through barriers that current financial systems cannot. Can be way more stable when governments are not. Easier and faster to transfer accepted value on the internet.

If you live in a corrupt country you can have resources , value protected from a unstable money system. Except at this time crypto can appear to be very unstable. Still the trend is rather favorable. Even with the ups and downs.
 

trparky

Gawd
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
971
But if the government falls it doesn't matter if you have some kind of money that is independent of the government, you're still screwed six ways to Sunday. What do you think will happen if the government falls? Mass panic, riots, etc. Money ain't going to help you.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
6,735
But if the government falls it doesn't matter if you have some kind of money that is independent of the government, you're still screwed six ways to Sunday. What do you think will happen if the government falls? Mass panic, riots, etc. Money ain't going to help you.
Well if you had 100 BTC and survived the storm, that is a start, not affected as much by government foolishness. Now if you had gold and silver being lugged around, pity you, better find a very good hiding spot and stick around or be robbed. If you kept your wealth in the defunct government, never too late to start over.

Now the wise look forward and move out of harms way. Don’t wait around when the building is on fire.
 
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