Bitcoin mining operation in Finger Lakes sparks local concerns

HAL_404

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
1,221
well, I guess it was just a matter of time for something like this to be brought up.

"A gas-fired power plant being used to support a Bitcoin mining operation in upstate New York as divided local residents over the environmental toll of the energy-intensive process versus the economic benefits the business brings to town."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/bitcoin-mining-operation-in-finger-lakes-sparks-local-concerns

222.jpg
 

sover

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
461
Another bitcoin smear piece...

A power plant runs at carbon neutral after converting from coal to natural gas and somehow it's an environmental problem just because it's powering bitcoin mining.
Whatever it's burning, it's outputting carbon, so labeling it carbon neutral is semantics at best. So the real question is what's bought with that carbon budget, and the answer seems to be investment speculation and criminal enterprise, so why would anyone want to spend the world's remaining carbon dioxide budget on that?

If they had built a solar/wind farm to power it I could see an argument about its environmental bona fides, but right now it's either using energy that could be theoretically put to better use or shut off altogether.
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
28,838
Whatever it's burning, it's outputting carbon, so labeling it carbon neutral is semantics at best. So the real question is what's bought with that carbon budget, and the answer seems to be investment speculation and criminal enterprise, so why would anyone want to spend the world's remaining carbon dioxide budget on that?

If they had built a solar/wind farm to power it I could see an argument about its environmental bona fides, but right now it's either using energy that could be theoretically put to better use or shut off altogether.

Natural gas is easily the least polluting carbon fuel you can burn. Coupled with the fact that it is plentiful and found right in the region with the Marcellus Shale, so you aren't even running pipelines all the way across the country to feed it. You should do more research about it.
 

sover

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
461
Thank you for doing your part in helping ensure the government steps in and starts looking at regulating how much energy usage a single entity actually needs.
Every cause needs a villain. Usually they aren't so cartoonish, but the "What-eva, I'll do what I want!" justification didn't work for Cartman, and I doubt it works well for anyone over the coming years.

Natural gas is easily the least polluting carbon fuel you can burn. Coupled with the fact that it is plentiful and found right in the region with the Marcellus Shale, so you aren't even running pipelines all the way across the country to feed it. You should do more research about it.
Like I said, it's still burning, and it's essentially burning for speculation and criminal enterprise. Your justification is falling very flat.
 

Wat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
269
If they are not breaking any laws, then its none of anyone's business. More co2 was emitted from backyard BBQs over the 4th of july weekend than this power plant. Its a slippery slope trying to pass judgment on anothers choices.
 

sover

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
461
If they are not breaking any laws, then its none of anyone's business. More co2 was emitted from backyard BBQs over the 4th of july weekend than this power plant. Its a slippery slope trying to pass judgment on anothers choices.
As someone else said, this kind of attitude and behavior is what turns public opinion towards the creation of such laws. For what it's worth, significant regulation over such scrip is long overdue.

Also, all of the BBQs over the 4th of July weekend actually accomplished something worthwhile, they cooked food. That's the problem with scrip generation, it's not actually doing anything useful aside from continuing a money-making scheme.
 

blackmomba

Gawd
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
579
^^ especially useful when the opinions are so blatantly uninformed

Do these folks know there are datacenters all over new York and New Jersey that are also not environmentally friendly. The data centers in that area, they service mostly stock exchanges... Speculation and plenty of criminal enterprise going on there
 

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
14,959
versus the economic benefits the business brings to town."
Curious what the economic benefit is that is being brought to the town? Some jobs by keeping the power plant open?
Also, all of the BBQs over the 4th of July weekend actually accomplished something worthwhile, they cooked food.
And it should be noted that if they didn't cook food on a grill, they'd have cooked food in an oven, and while yeah grills are more polluting then indoor ranges, it's not like the CO2 emissions from grills are coming from a state of 0 emissions on every other day.
 

Martin the Kiteboy

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
109
More co2 was emitted from backyard BBQs over the 4th of july weekend than this power plant.
I got curious and ran the numbers. The subject plant emitted about 245,000 tons of CO2 in 2020, or about 490,000,000 lbs. Some quick research shows that there are about 20% more gas grills than charcoal grills in the USA, and that grilling with gas emits around 6 lbs of CO2 (Although that is from a European study, I expect USA grilling tendencies are probably a touch more liberal in their gas use, but I will not alter the numbers.)

So, if we look at just gas grilling we would need around 81,000,000 American gas grill sessions to equal this poweplant’s output in 2020.

Which, I am surprised to say, is actually within the realm of reason. So yes, it is possible that July 4 may have eclipsed this plant’s output last year.

I never used the ratio of gas to charcoal, but since the charcoal would only increase the output (and cut the number of gas grills needed to match the plant) it further confirms the statement.
 

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
14,959
I got curious and ran the numbers. The subject plant emitted about 245,000 tons of CO2 in 2020, or about 490,000,000 lbs. Some quick research shows that there are about 20% more gas grills than charcoal grills in the USA, and that grilling with gas emits around 6 lbs of CO2 (Although that is from a European study, I expect USA grilling tendencies are probably a touch more liberal in their gas use, but I will not alter the numbers.)

So, if we look at just gas grilling we would need around 81,000,000 American gas grill sessions to equal this poweplant’s output in 2020.

Which, I am surprised to say, is actually within the realm of reason. So yes, it is possible that July 4 may have eclipsed this plant’s output last year.

I never used the ratio of gas to charcoal, but since the charcoal would only increase the output (and cut the number of gas grills needed to match the plant) it further confirms the statement.
Well you obviously are much more deeper into running numbers on this than me, so I'll add to your sets of equations, how much more CO2 do grills release than stoves/ovens? Because again you can't just assume "well all the 4th of July grills" because that grill supplants cooking in more conventional ways. So if I cook a burger on a grill vs in a pan at home. Don't get me wrong I suspect the grill to be much more because of the non-localized nature of heating, but still.

Also there are approximately 120 million households in the US, 81M is approximately 2/3rds of that, but how many of those households go to someone else's house and then that on grill supplies food for multiple households, combine this with the above stipulation and it man not be as bad as people think.

And then lastly, are we really comparing feeding effectively the entire fucking country versus making some investment firm richer via crypto mining? That's like saying it's ok for *me* to toss used motor oil down the drain because the amount of oil that drips from every car in the US is more.
 

Martin the Kiteboy

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
109
I embarked on the math because I suspected that the power plant would easily eclipse the grills. I called bullshit, but as it turns out there are a lot of grills in the USA. Factoring in the split of gas to charcoal and not factoring in that charcoal is semi carbon neutral (Burning wood is essentially carbon neutral if the tree is replaced, but charcoal is processed wood that is dried under heat usuually supplied by fossil fuels), it drops the number of grills down to about 55,000,000. And (sadly) enough, it looks like electric grills emit even more CO2 than either propane or charcoal when fed by fossil fuels. Basically all this math has been done before by someone at ORNL, I am am not about to call out those credentials.

What is really comes down to is that this power plant actually spits out very little CO2 as it is a small plant and 1 source in comparison to 50,000,000 or so sources.

I agree that running a power plant just to mine BTC feels wrong, but people build actual power plants to solely mine real minerals as well. True, my chimp brain attributes more inherent worth to physical coin than virtual coin, but I am also painfully aware of the cognitive dissonance involved in that statement seeing that my net worth is majority 401k that is all computer money anyway.

So yeah, solar is better, use less Dino juice, make money however you can without being an ass. Optimize as you see fit.
 

GreenLaser

n00b
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
48
It is a slippery slope when we have any group questioning the value to the community of another group that legally purchased the electricity. Once that becomes OK the next domino is that there are air breathers that dont add any value to the community and their air should be stopped. Crypto smears are being perpetuated by groups that can manipulate current monetary scheme. They wish to stamp out ones they cannot by whatever means possible.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,290
^^ especially useful when the opinions are so blatantly uninformed

Do these folks know there are datacenters all over new York and New Jersey that are also not environmentally friendly. The data centers in that area, they service mostly stock exchanges... Speculation and plenty of criminal enterprise going on there
What a classical Classical gem.
"If someone presents a problem to you, mention another problem because two wrongs make a who cares."
 

blackmomba

Gawd
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
579
What a classical Classical gem.
"If someone presents a problem to you, mention another problem because two wrongs make a who cares."
There is no problem. As long as these folks are paying their bill on time, no one should come knocking to ask what they're using electricity for. That's the deal.
 

Shotglass01

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
1,960
There is no problem. As long as these folks are paying their bill on time, no one should come knocking to ask what they're using electricity for. That's the deal.
That's not the whole deal. If the lake boils and kills off all fish, as an example, wiping out any fishing industry, it becomes a problem even if it's legal. Because we don't live in vacuums, causes and effects can have consequences.
 

blackmomba

Gawd
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
579
That's not the whole deal. If the lake boils and kills off all fish, as an example, wiping out any fishing industry, it becomes a problem even if it's legal. Because we don't live in vacuums, causes and effects can have consequences.

Even then, no one's going to go around asking people to lower their AC cause the fish are boiling. At that point we should have limitations placed on the inftastructure to control usage at the source.

If we don't wanna get to that point, we need to stop pointing fingers all the time looking for someone to blame. when pretty much everything we do to advance technologically has an impact on the environment what do you want to do? And if you have some need to constantly have someone to blame and your goal is indeed to save the environment, why don't you point it at those who fuck it up the most?
 

sharknice

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
2,634
As someone else said, this kind of attitude and behavior is what turns public opinion towards the creation of such laws. For what it's worth, significant regulation over such scrip is long overdue.

Also, all of the BBQs over the 4th of July weekend actually accomplished something worthwhile, they cooked food. That's the problem with scrip generation, it's not actually doing anything useful aside from continuing a money-making scheme.

Do you know how incredibly wasteful, inefficient, and evil government is?

Even if using crypto increased the global energy consumption 10X the world would come out ahead by taking control of currency away from governments.
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
733
Even then, no one's going to go around asking people to lower their AC cause the fish are boiling. At that point we should have limitations placed on the inftastructure to control usage at the source.

If we don't wanna get to that point, we need to stop pointing fingers all the time looking for someone to blame. when pretty much everything we do to advance technologically has an impact on the environment what do you want to do? And if you have some need to constantly have someone to blame and your goal is indeed to save the environment, why don't you point it at those who fuck it up the most?

Don't worry, some politician who uses a private jet in the same way you and I use a taxi is going to tell us that we're the ones to blame.
 

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
14,959
I grilled Friday, Saturday and Sunday, drank lots of beer and did NOT recycle the containers.

So I will probably be first against the wall when the kmher eco take control.
What ever makes you feel like more of a man Denis Leary. :D. :D :D
 

HAL_404

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
1,221
Do you know how incredibly wasteful, inefficient, and evil government is?

Even if using crypto increased the global energy consumption 10X the world would come out ahead by taking control of currency away from governments.
uh hu, no doubt the World Powers are just sitting around waiting
for crypto miners to become the new World Power. Where ya gonna
be storing all your nukes? :barefoot:
 
Last edited:

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
11,961
Another bitcoin smear piece...

A power plant runs at carbon neutral after converting from coal to natural gas and somehow it's an environmental problem just because it's powering bitcoin mining.
It's more of the daily bad faith clickbait firehose pointed at everyone's "news" feeds. They're autogenerated by a script at this point. A random shit patchwork of the buzzwords of the moment, strung together by a bunch of empty meaningless sentences. And why not, since most people never read past the headline. And if you do drill down past the headline, it's never about what it's been twisted into.

In this case it's some local political beef between a power company and different players trying to work some hidden agenda or angle, it's got nothing to really do with Bitcoin. But crowbar Bitcoin in to the article anyway because it's guaranteed attention in a time that people don't bother to fact check.

"Local concerns grow after gas fired power company supplied serial killer with power to recharge portable chainsaw before killing spree". Said one resident "the lake is really warm, how many more people have to die needlessly to portable chainsaws?" He added, "something something BITCOIN".
 
Last edited:

HAL_404

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
1,221
Bad faith clickbait -- these 'articles' are practically autogenerated bit a script at this point. A random shit patchwork of the buzzwords of the moment strung together by a bunch of empty meaningless sentences. And why not since most people never read past the headline. And if you do drill down past the headline, it's never about what it's been twisted into.

In this case some local political beef between a power company and different players trying to work some hidden agenda or angle, it's got fuckall to actually do with Bitcoin, but crowbar Bitcoin in to the "article" anyway because that lightning-rods attention and fact checking moves 1000x slower than the speed of auto generated clickbait.
will be interesting when folks are running for cover with their valuable crypto UBS(s) in their pocket. If the US is not the World Power then the World will fall as it almost did with Hitler. If US currency is made worthless due to crypto the military stops functioning.
 

NKD

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,850
Whatever it's burning, it's outputting carbon, so labeling it carbon neutral is semantics at best. So the real question is what's bought with that carbon budget, and the answer seems to be investment speculation and criminal enterprise, so why would anyone want to spend the world's remaining carbon dioxide budget on that?

If they had built a solar/wind farm to power it I could see an argument about its environmental bona fides, but right now it's either using energy that could be theoretically put to better use or shut off altogether.

What? Criminal enterprise. I love this unfounded argument. FBI CIA NSA can track everyone and their mother with a bitcoin address, don't buy the main stream argument about bitcoin being used for criminal crap lol. Also I get the argument about speculation but hey its still settling transactions and so are banks, they burn more electricity and likely do more criminal shit and get away with it then bitcoin criminals do. Banks do plenty of shit and never get arrested lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noko
like this

NKD

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,850
As someone else said, this kind of attitude and behavior is what turns public opinion towards the creation of such laws. For what it's worth, significant regulation over such scrip is long overdue.

Also, all of the BBQs over the 4th of July weekend actually accomplished something worthwhile, they cooked food. That's the problem with scrip generation, it's not actually doing anything useful aside from continuing a money-making scheme.
You do realize that the hell bitcoin mining does right? Its settling transactions when money is sent from you and me etc. It's not like government printing money as they wish lol.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
28,190
I embarked on the math because I suspected that the power plant would easily eclipse the grills. I called bullshit, but as it turns out there are a lot of grills in the USA. Factoring in the split of gas to charcoal and not factoring in that charcoal is semi carbon neutral (Burning wood is essentially carbon neutral if the tree is replaced, but charcoal is processed wood that is dried under heat usuually supplied by fossil fuels), it drops the number of grills down to about 55,000,000. And (sadly) enough, it looks like electric grills emit even more CO2 than either propane or charcoal when fed by fossil fuels. Basically all this math has been done before by someone at ORNL, I am am not about to call out those credentials.

What is really comes down to is that this power plant actually spits out very little CO2 as it is a small plant and 1 source in comparison to 50,000,000 or so sources.

I agree that running a power plant just to mine BTC feels wrong, but people build actual power plants to solely mine real minerals as well. True, my chimp brain attributes more inherent worth to physical coin than virtual coin, but I am also painfully aware of the cognitive dissonance involved in that statement seeing that my net worth is majority 401k that is all computer money anyway.

So yeah, solar is better, use less Dino juice, make money however you can without being an ass. Optimize as you see fit.
Sounds like the perfect argument for nuclear powered grills. Zero carbon emissions!

1625750321384.png
1625750360264.png
1625750480565.png


 
Top