Bit of a Rant about Ryzen & AMD

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by DuronBurgerMan, Apr 14, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    [Post Removed]

    My apologies,
    DBM
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 10:23 AM
    juanrga, Monkey God, Dayaks and 11 others like this.
  2. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger Ale, an alcoholic's best friend.

    Messages:
    17,334
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Well that's a lot of typing for being wrong.
     
    Perilous, N4CR, Angry and 20 others like this.
  3. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Lol.
     
  4. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    What did I get wrong?
     
  5. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,819
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    You attempted to have a logical conversation in the land of holy wars. Don't like Ryzen then dont but one.
     
    Dayaks and drescherjm like this.
  6. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,553
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
    I was disappointed that it did not perform felatio as well.
     
  7. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    I'm sure plenty of that goes on in the marketing dept. at AMD. Guess they figured they didn't need to add it as a feature.
     
    -Sweeper_ likes this.
  8. Nobu

    Nobu Gawd

    Messages:
    933
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    A few users reported better performance despite the lower memory clock after the agesa update, but I suppose that may have come from elsewhere.
     
  9. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Agesa update lowered memory latency (by 6ns IIRC). Some performance improvements came from that... but no good if it also breaks your RAM overclock.
     
  10. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,686
    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    It's a Beta Product

    No it isn't. It's a completely new architecture. Gonna have some growing pains.


    Feature Set is Lacking


    You gave no examples, other than 64gb of ram. which is a complete non point.


    It's a Just an 8 Core Sandy Bridge with Better SMT


    You contradict yourself here, saying with optomization, it will be between Haswell-E and Broadwell-E... which cost twice as much.


    Overclocking is Crap


    Deal with it. OCing isn't a guarantee.


    Optimizations Won't Fix This


    Sure they can.


    There Ain't No Such Thing as a Free Lunch


    So you mean having options is a bad thing..... riiight.


    AMD is Competing on Price, Not Performance


    Bullshit. Right now AMD is killing it on both for anyone that uses their PC for something other than gaming. And Ryzen 3 and the APU lineup will be the value KING if they keep on this trend.
     
    Perilous, N4CR, KarsusTG and 8 others like this.
  11. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Wasn't this bad with Intel. You'd have to go all the way back to the P3 1.13 to find a f*ckup this bad in Intel's stack.

    It's not a non-point. It's a major issue for heavy workstation use. You need gobs of RAM for that duty. Hell, I was scrimping by going with 32. I really should have bought 64. If you do a lot of work in 3dsmax, you'll hit that ceiling quick. Hell, even After Effects and Premiere can easily use more than that.

    Also, SATA support is weaker. And good luck trying to run dual NVMe drives and a decent GPU. You'll run out of lanes.


    No, only in certain ideal throughput scenarios, with maximum multi-threaded support, do you see this. Gaming doesn't even approach that level of throughput. Much more latency dependent, and in latency dependent tasks, Ryzen is basically Sandy Bridge. Juanrga put it this way: in gaming and latency sensitive tasks, Ryzen is Sandy-like. In heavy throughput tasks, Ryzen is Haswell-like.

    Still disappointing.

    AMD said that with Bulldozer too, we all know how that ended up.

    I wish AMD did better. I really do. Don't take any of this sh*t as an endorsement of Intel -- I have a beef with them, too. I'm sick of these 5% IPC and clock rate bumps. Ryzen may be a Sandy Bridge, or more charitably, a Haswell in some circumstances. But it's not like Intel really distanced itself from SB either. The Kaby Lake is what, 20-30% better IPC? Blech.

    They will be the VALUE king. That's what I mean. They will be great budget CPUs, but not really Performance CPUs.
     
    juanrga, -Sweeper_ and IdiotInCharge like this.
  12. jardows

    jardows Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    401
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Sure, it doesn't have the bells and whistles you want. How 'bout we make sure that only systems that can support 12 SATA devices are available? Or mandate that USB 3.1 is necessary on all new products? Otherwise, don't waste your money, because someone may want to run a NAS off that board without having to buy an add-on card AND at the same time plug in a super-fast USB device that doesn't yet exist?

    I laugh every time I see this. So what if 4.0Ghz is the OC ceiling? I don't care if you come out with a chip that can be OC'd to 10Ghz, if it doesn't perform as well. There are plenty of 3.5-4.0Ghz + processors out there, that do not perform nearly as well as Ryzen or Kaby Lake. Clock speed DOES NOT equal performance. If it performs as good or better at a lower clock speed, then it's an equal or better processor, regardless of overclocking.

    You forget the 6x series chipset debacle. Causing data corruption and loss on hard drives. It was so bad that Intel had to stop selling the product and Sandy Bridge processors for nearly half a year until they could get it figured out and fixed. Nothing that AMD is doing now is causing that kind of wide-spread damage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  13. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    AMD is positioning it as a Broadwell-E alternative. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter as much.

    Sure. The 9590 was an overclocked 5GHz chip AMD would sell you... and it sucked. But if Ryzen has vaguely Sandy-to-Haswell like IPC and only clocks to 4 GHz... it's not going to stand up next to a Kaby Lake or a Broadwell in any metric except price. Or, rather, cores for the dollar.
     
    juanrga likes this.
  14. Nathan_P

    Nathan_P [H]ard DCOTM x2

    Messages:
    3,173
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    You have spent the last 6 weeks defending Ryzen to the hilt, now you don't like it. So were you talking BS then or now?

    Ryzen 7 and x370 are not the competitor to x99 - anyone who thinks that it is deluded, its been posted in other threads that R7 and x370 is designed to compete with the feature set of z270, the fact that the cpu has more cores is just a bonus. The x99 equivalent parts will not be out until later in the year
     
  15. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    I got pretty damned pissed about the recent BIOS f*ckup, and I think Juanrga and some other folks who were saying similar to what I just did essentially proved me wrong. I defended it, and they proved I was wrong to do so. That's what changed.
     
  16. rgMekanic

    rgMekanic [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,686
    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    X99 launch was terrible


    More lanes than Z270


    Agreed, but it wasn't meant to compete with Sky or Kaby, it was going for throughput.

    I agree, would have been badass to see them hit more, but they're still damn potent.

    Not even a comparison heh

    Completely agree

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed, but they also have the potential to kick intels teeth in with some more refinements and the roumors of the new chipset with quad channel, and possible 16/32 consumer CPU
     
  17. SighTurtle

    SighTurtle Gawd

    Messages:
    558
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Its disappointing to read this, cause this is basically a summary of the flaws of Ryzen that every review I've heard has mentioned.

    Did you decide to eat up AMD's marketing wholesale?

    The only reason your disillusioned is because you ate up the marketing, the fanboy dreams, and when the product came out, your dreams were crushed.

    Look it happens. Just remember to underestimate, don't believe the hype. And wait for reviews.
     
    juanrga likes this.
  18. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Was it really this bad? Weekly BIOS updates, monthly microcode updates, and huge RAM compatibility issues?


    I keep hoping so. But I'm as tired of AMD hype and rumors as I am of the snail's pace of Intel's 'advancements'. Maybe this is just the first iteration, and things will improve. But I've zero faith in either company at this point.
     
    drescherjm and -Sweeper_ like this.
  19. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Never thought of myself as an AMD fanboy. But in this instance, I wanted to see competition in the market again, and perhaps I imagined it where it didn't really exist.
     
    Andy735 and rgMekanic like this.
  20. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
  21. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,523
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
  22. Spirit_Retro

    Spirit_Retro Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    288
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    You mean is doesn't suck?
     
  23. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Yeah... maybe I'm overreacting a bit. But I'm seeing this sh*t in an entirely different light now. Rose-colored enthusiast glasses came off.
     
  24. jbc029

    jbc029 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    289
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    That's what 480's were for. :p
     
    DuronBurgerMan likes this.
  25. Tup3x

    Tup3x [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,545
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2011
    Ryzen was really nice comeback and a great start for new architecture. For that reason I'm extremely interested to see how they can improve. If they manage to squeeze out little bit more IPC while improving the clock speeds... Things get really interesting.

    Their software is in beta stage and there are lots of issues that hinder the performance and compatibility. That's one reason why I'll pass. I'll wait for this new platform to mature. Ryzen refresh shouldn't have as much firmware, driver and software issues.
     
    DuronBurgerMan likes this.
  26. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,523
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    What? Let me guess you didn't have your SandyBridge MB recalled?
     
    whateverer and DuronBurgerMan like this.
  27. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Nope. WTH, man? Have the Gods of Computing been watching over my builds or something? I mean f*ck... No problems with my SB build. No problems with this build except sh*tty AMD microcode updates.

    But... apparently everyone else has tons of problems. That sucks, man.
     
  28. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,523
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    The B3 recall was only one of the biggest recalls in history lmao.
     
    whateverer likes this.
  29. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,523
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
  30. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    And somehow I missed it, because my sh*t worked fine and I stopped paying attention afterward.
     
  31. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,523
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Or maybe your clueless and lucked out and got in after the B3 fiasco. Ignorance is bliss they say.
     
  32. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    I bought in pretty early. Few weeks after release date, IIRC. Now I'm wondering if my mobo was supposed to be recalled. It was having some bizarre issues toward the end of its life.
     
  33. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
  34. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,434
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    What I can gather from posts like this is that the only good CPUs Intel makes are 7700k and 6900k and everything else is worthless crap. I don't know why they bother with other models at all and AMD has no place whatsoever.
     
  35. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    373
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    From my perspective Ryzen was a chance for AMD to get back in the game after taking an extended hiatus after the fallout from Bulldozer.

    Many declared AMD dead after that fiasco and that some major corporations were just waiting in the wings to scoop them up. I didn't see it this way, I thought they were just biding there time, but at the same time they knew they fucked up with BD and tried to spin it that Windows and games were the reason behind it's downfall(sound familiar?).

    And all the fanboi's were saying; "You just wait and see." And so we waited and waited for Piledriver to fix this debauchery. Most people knew it would be more of the same, but leave it to AMD to get the hype train rolling, and giving people hope. And I think that's AMD's greatest downfall, all the hype that they spew.

    Look at how many times AMD fans have been burned, Phenom I, Bulldozer, Piledriver, Fiji, Mantle, TrueAudio, Polaris.
    Most AMD fans wanted Ryzen to triumph, but were still remembering the past hype when they failed to deliver.
    So when Ryzen debuted, a lot of fans got more then they expected, and some were still reminded of BD.

    But it was enough to get prior Intel only users that haven't had a AMD chip since the A64 to consider Ryzen for a new build, I've seen peeps "upgrade" from
    6800k/3930k/4770k for whatever reason just to have a taste of AMD again.

    Is this just some weekend fuck? Nah, Ryzen is great if you can utilize all those cores and threads.
    Is it the end all /be all gaming rig? Nah, but at least it can hold it's own compared to the flagship Intel chips.
    If your going to whine and cry over 120FPS vs 142FPS, then Ryzen wasn't meant for you.

    What I like about Ryzen is the simple fact it fills in all the gaps in Intel's lineup, never before could you get 8c16t for this price, unless you go to fleabay looking for used Xeons.

    And that's what makes this great, because now we have competition in the CPU world, and competition means more technological innovation to be had, instead of 6+ years of stagnant gains. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  36. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    LOL @ used Xeons. "Hey man, wanna buy some Xeons?"
     
  37. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    373
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    I waited till they started selling mobos with a big fat orange B3 on the box. ;)
     
    DuronBurgerMan likes this.
  38. DuronBurgerMan

    DuronBurgerMan Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    452
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Don't recall saying any of that. I do recall saying AMD is offering a good budget CPU, but can't really compete with Intel on performance. I recall praising the 7700k and the 6900k, but I do not recall sh*tting on the rest of the lineup.
     
  39. CAD4466HK

    CAD4466HK Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    373
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Look in the 1366 overclocking thread in the Intel forum, plenty of peeps tossing out their 920's for $50 and under 6c12t Xeons.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.