Bill Would Make It Illegal to Sell Electronics without Easily Replaceable Batteries

Megalith

Megalith

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Washington state is attempting a bill that would ban the sale of electronics that are designed “in such a way as to prevent reasonable diagnostic or repair functions by an independent repair provider.” Tech companies are already opposing the pro-consumer bill, claiming that self-repair will lead to cybersecurity and safety issues.

The bill is cosponsored by 11 other representatives across the political spectrum and Thursday was moved out of Morris’s Committee on Technology & Economic Development, an important step toward passage that puts it ahead of bills introduced in many other states. If passed in Washington, information and parts made available there would likely filter out to the rest of the United States.
 
I would LOVE to see Apple pull all their stores from selling electronics and move them right across the border to Oregon or Idaho and setup shop 1 mile from the border.

Get those ILLEGAL electronics like they were fireworks. Oh man.
 
sfsuphysics said:
the problem is this "newest" wave of everything is water resistant to X meters means by default anything inside will not be easily replaceable
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Yup. in regards to smart phones, manufacturers have decided that water resistance is more important than user replaceable battery.

As per the other poster, I would "vote with your wallet" but there are a handful Android phones left that have replaceable batteries. LG and Samsung make a couple but getting one of those is willing to concede display resolution and ending up with 720p.
 
What do you mean it's not easy to replace these batteries? You just take the phone apart and swap batteries.
 
Gizmo makers should be able to water resist most of the device while leaving a battery compartment easily accessible. My old flip phone pretty well does this. Back slides off and battery comes out. 3 contacts. Waterproofing the holes for a few wires shouldn't be that hard. Most batteries are sealed fairly well anyway and would be mostly water resistant themselves.

Unless the bill also mandates a period of battery availability, might not do much good. "Gee, we no longer make a battery for Gizmo V 2.3 and the one for Gizmo V 2.4 won't fit. Sorry!"
 
They are probably fighting back because of eternal agreements / back-room deals with Governments that bring in additional income. People don't give a shit about the back of their phone. Do I care what the underside of my truck looks like? No, hell no.

I loved having extra charged batteries for some of my older phones on trips or if I was going to be out all day.
 
Dead Parrot said:
Gizmo makers should be able to water resist most of the device while leaving a battery compartment easily accessible. My old flip phone pretty well does this. Back slides off and battery comes out. 3 contacts. Waterproofing the holes for a few wires shouldn't be that hard. Most batteries are sealed fairly well anyway and would be mostly water resistant themselves.

Unless the bill also mandates a period of battery availability, might not do much good. "Gee, we no longer make a battery for Gizmo V 2.3 and the one for Gizmo V 2.4 won't fit. Sorry!"
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If I really wanted to I could still find batteries for an old Samsung Rogue I have stuffed in a box somewhere. Unless the manufacturers make it completely impossible for 3rd parties to make batteries then finding replacements will not be terribly hard.
 
I know this forum is full of anti regulation extremists, but I think this would be a positive step.

While we are at it, how about a bill that prevents locked bootloaders, and requires mobile carriers to allow ANY device that is compatible on their networks?
 
sfsuphysics said:
the problem is this "newest" wave of everything is water resistant to X meters means by default anything inside will not be easily replaceable
Click to expand...

Door with rubber gasket. Problem solved. NEXT.

If I can design water resistant implantable medical devices with openable doors that reside inside a human body for life, then they can bloody well do it for a silly little phone. This is not an excuse.
 
I think the best thing to do would be to place a tax on different parts of electronics. This way the market is allowed to produce whatever product they want however it is encouraged through pricing to push the market in the right direction. I would be all for this and I would extend it to other things. For instance all phone companies used to make different charger ports for their phones and it wasn't till the EU came in and put in some regulations that got them all to settle on microUSB. For whatever reason apple has escaped this. But I cringe at the thought of going back to the days of different adapters for every phone. I would apply this to other things too. Like for instance exclusive stores, like the app store if you don't let people install outside programs you pay a tax. Same with locked bootloaders, forced rooting etc. I would extend it to phone carriers too charging them a tax if they do not allow all phones on their network.

So if someone wants a particular phone with a sealed battery they just have to pay more for it. The exact number could be debated. Maybe $5 / battery plus 3% of the device retail price. Overtime I think this would push the market to being more competitive and open and I think it reduce a lot of waste. I think that's why the EU did it originally because they were frustrated with the amount of chargers being thrown out every time people got a new phone.
 
sfsuphysics said:
the problem is this "newest" wave of everything is water resistant to X meters means by default anything inside will not be easily replaceable
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AGM's cells have replaceable batteries + IP68 . spec wise they are on par with the LG v20, the last flagship smartphone from a main brand with such battery.
 
to many bills\laws start enforcing the ones By The Constitution first then ban all other stupid people and laws next
 
I mean I got a new screen for a 6s plus. California must have already passed this law.

What a joke.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I know this forum is full of anti regulation extremists, but I think this would be a positive step.

While we are at it, how about a bill that prevents locked bootloaders, and requires mobile carriers to allow ANY device that is compatible on their networks?
Click to expand...

We've already got the latter here in Canada, and have banned carrier locked phones. Bootloader is another fight though, that's manufacturers protecting their warranty...
 
"...ban the sale of electronics that are designed “in such a way as to prevent reasonable diagnostic or repair functions by an independent repair provider.”

This way in the future if you want to repair an electronic device yourself, you would have the choice to. Everything is becoming computerized [smart]. From refrigerators, faucets, cars, ... etc. Tech companies are <<< claiming that self-repair will lead to cybersecurity and safety issues. >> Can you imagine being barred from repairing what you bought?

The only way you could vote with your money is by not buying any electronic device that doesn't allow you to repair it. Extremely difficult in the society we live in today.
 
The smallest phone will not have an easily replaceable battery. It's the companies prerogative to design as they see fit.

Not surprised the resident socialists think this is a great idea.
 
I think the more pressing matter is make it illegal to withhold the sale of official repair manual to the end user... like what car companies do now. In fact more online repair manuals are pretty much illegally put online.
 
HockeyJon said:
How exactly does changing a battery lead to safety and cybersecurity issues?
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This.
It's just a bunch of smoke from the manufactures who would rather sell you another $800 phone than allow you to replace a $30 battery.

SLCPUNK said:
So dumb. If you don't like a product you can't repair, don't buy it. Go find a product you can repair and vote with your wallet.
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That's one of the main reasons I'm still using a Note 4, and just bought a used Note 4 for my kid. Didn't have to worry if the used battery was week, and I can buy a new quality 3rd party battery for $20.

Krazy925 said:
I mean I got a new screen for a 6s plus. California must have already passed this law.
What a joke.
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I doubt California would bother with this law They have more important law to pass like fine/jail people for giving you a plastic straw with your soda.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
Door with rubber gasket. Problem solved. NEXT.

If I can design water resistant implantable medical devices with openable doors that reside inside a human body for life, then they can bloody well do it for a silly little phone. This is not an excuse.
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Yeah, except the problem with that is user error can very easily render it non-functional. Some years back I got a Fujifilm underwater camera, went to Hawaii a few times, worked just as directed (although really didn't take pictures that were that great both above water and below, but then one trip water got into the battery/sd card storage, and the camera was ruined. Now was it my fault that I didn't lock it? a grain of sand got in there and deformed the gasket? Actually what I noticed was a slight bit of corrosion around the door mechanism. What the reason was is irrelevant it lasted a few years.

Now lets take a phone, owned by pretty much everyone on the planet, now sure if they do something stupid it's totally their fault, and that's great. Now how many dumb people out there? a sizable number, so I'm guessing "user error" will pop up more often then not, and those cases will get coverage, and then it'll spread like wildfire that "it doesn't work" and the competitors will use that as ammunition in ads. Don't believe me? How many phones got bent or screens cracked because people thought sticking them in their back pocket and sitting on them should be something phones should stand up to? So manufacturers have to think about the dumbest users and everyone else has to stay fit. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if a rubber gasket with a door/locking mechanism added to the thickness of a phone, and we all know thin is in.
 
nutzo said:
I doubt California would bother with this law They have more important law to pass like fine/jail people for giving you a plastic straw with your soda.
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Hey that's your guys representatives down in SoCal who has the brilliant idea of not giving straws to people. My guys only banned toys in Happy Meals, made bags cost money, and put extra taxes on sugary drinks.
 
I don't want the government saying how we can and cannot build devices, the consumers should have a choice. The only phone I've owned which couldn't get a battery replacement was our Note 5 so it's really not that big of a problem. I remember there were a few years when every new home built in Europe had absolutely horrible lighting because they banned incandescent bulbs before there were high quality alternatives. Or governments encouraged recyclable wire in automobiles. Or the governments requiring MBTE to be added to gasoline. Almost always a case of good intentions, not enough research, knee jerk planning and unexpected consequences.
 
Miikun said:
I don't want the government saying how we can and cannot build devices, the consumers should have a choice. .
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So to take this in a different direction, if someone brought up a motion to make it so that phone manufacturers could NOT put back doors into their electronic devices, you wouldn't want that happening?
 
This is more about being able to repair machines at all than just easily replaceable batteries. Sadly most phone makers are asshats for pushing the ultra thin no replaceable batteries but hey we now have wafer thin phones and large usb battery packs.

See here:
 
So what happens when parts shrink to the point where your entire phone is a single chip?
Do we need to put out a bill to stifle innovation so that everyone can homebrew-repair their stuff? GTFO.
 
sfsuphysics said:
So to take this in a different direction, if someone brought up a motion to make it so that phone manufacturers could NOT put back doors into their electronic devices, you wouldn't want that happening?
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I don't care, as long as they need to disclose. If the government wants to partner with Swann sell us an outdoor backdoored security camera that they can also use to read license plates for a 50% subsidy, more power to them. Or that I buy my kids equipment that has their privacy completely backdoored by a monitoring company of my choice, I don't want some some European Data Privacy Law or something similar killing that because they can't prevent my kids from turning it off with a simple email request. I prefer having a choice, and give the free market a chance.
 
ryan_975 said:
Water resistance has nothing to do with replaceable battereis. My old Galaxy S5 was water resistant and still had a removable battery.
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Thank you, was going to mention S5 as well. I'm still using it and frankly not sure what to replace it with in part due to battery replacement and glued cases on most phones.
 
Miikun said:
I don't care, as long as they need to disclose. If the government wants to partner with Swann sell us an outdoor backdoored security camera that they can also use to read license plates for a 50% subsidy, more power to them. Or that I buy my kids equipment that has their privacy completely backdoored by a monitoring company of my choice, I don't want some some European Data Privacy Law or something similar killing that because they can't prevent my kids from turning it off with a simple email request. I prefer having a choice, and give the free market a chance.
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Well, here's my question. How do you enforce the need to disclose without legislative means when the free market will encourage makers to collude with one another so that nobody becomes the snitch that disclose things?

SLCPUNK said:
So dumb. If you don't like a product you can't repair, don't buy it. Go find a product you can repair and vote with your wallet.
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Oh, if only I can freely follow that mr. obvious advice when the fucking market gives me only LG V20 as a viable 'flagship' of yesteryear where I can actually replace the battery with ease.
Oh wait, it does mean that I should just not buy any phone whatsoever right? Voting with my wallet by making that kind of compromise sure is an ideal solution! (sarcasm mark insert here)

Gigus Fire said:
What do you mean it's not easy to replace these batteries? You just take the phone apart and swap batteries.
Click to expand...

You forgot the putting things together part. iPhones require you to get the adhesive that doubles as a gasket to be fitted exactly as it were to preserve the water resistance, and Apple goes out of their way to include the two bottom 'security' screws as pentalobe screws just to make it that extra bit harder to work with.

Well, MS Surface book are even worse to work with for that matter.

ryan_975 said:
Water resistance has nothing to do with replaceable battereis. My old Galaxy S5 was water resistant and still had a removable battery.
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This.
 
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just wait till you get the repair problems faced by agri machine owners IN ordinary road cars.

pretty much all corps will make it as hard as possible to screw the customer on after-sales services IF they can get away with it
 
schoolslave said:
So what happens when parts shrink to the point where your entire phone is a single chip?
Do we need to put out a bill to stifle innovation so that everyone can homebrew-repair their stuff? GTFO.
Click to expand...

Screen, camera , battery, ports are not on the chip.
 
theBrownLlama said:
Screen, camera , battery, ports are not on the chip.
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Although I can see all of these components being fused onto one single PCB so that you can't replace any of these individually without breaking out the soldering iron (if that's even possible)
 
Well you can kiss thinnesss and water resistance goodbye....everything is compromise.

The iPhone does have a replacable battery, just not a user replacable ones. Noobs should not be fuking around inside phones.
 
ryan_975 said:
Water resistance has nothing to do with replaceable battereis. My old Galaxy S5 was water resistant and still had a removable battery.
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Mine has fallen into the sink at least three times while I was shaving.

Phone is still kicking. Took longer for the Otterbox case to dry out than the phone did.
 
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