Bill Gates Says Government Spying Isn’t Always Bad

I always thought it was funny when people quote that guy. It was a good thing back when the US' founding business owners wanted to motivate Joe Average into fighting for them so they didn't hafta pay taxes to the King like every other colony, but catchy slogans they used to gather meat shields for war need to be kinda looked at and analyzed with a more open minded perspective now that the wealthy people the common folk put into power are long gone. I mean really, we're all just paying taxers again anyhow which is exactly what people rebelled against then and will probably do again just to end up in the same situation all over despite making a huge mess on the way there.

The revolution was never to avoid paying taxes or some belief that taxation is a problem at all. The slogan is "No taxation without representation", not "No taxation". The modern Tea Party Movement has nothing whatsoever in common with the Sons of Liberty that orchestrated the Boston Tea Party.
 
Bill Gates says something that I think is rather.. well.. duh?

If evil wasn't so prevalent, the things NSA did can still be used for good for the benefit of all from data collection.

Things that Google is doing -- futuristic-wise -- can't otherwise be possible if we aren't willing to share our personal life data to a centralized place for analysis. If we all work together and provide data, new technologies can be found and existing can evolve to increase efficiencies and provide new conveniences and interesting/fun/wonderful futuristic/sci-fi accommodations in life that would otherwise not be possible without having the data required to support it.

But because evil is so prevalent and unstoppable and we're all so grumpy about privacy and anonymity that makes that sort of thing difficult and in many cases straight-out impossible.

On one side, we could all not be so concerned about how companies use our information and that data could be used for the collective advantage of man-kind in technological innovations, exploration, and future. But because it is so easy to use it for wrong purposes, well.. that really makes it all just a pipe-dream, eh? :D
 
And just think how devastating the propaganda would be if the scenario I described ever occurred.

I remember September 11, 2001 very well. I was home sick, suffering from some really bad back spasms. Right after the first plane crashed my wife called me from work and told me, and I turn of the TV and for the next 20 hours I watched and knew that life going forward was going to be different. How I did not know, but I knew it would be different.

I guarantee that if a terrorist group ever successfully detonate a nuclear device, all of our lives would be different in ways we would not like.

I'm not so certain those over in the Ukraine like it.
 
Government spying isn't always bad, that's a no-brainer.

There has to be rules, oversight, and most importantly accountability built right in to the system though. Those seem to be the sticking point, since the beginning of spying long before the "western world" was even a concept.
 
Bill Gates never said anything of the sort.

He denies ever having said it and there's there doesn't seem any proof that he did. I think the statement was supposedly said in 1981, long before the era of everything being recorded. At any rate, he's the most financially successful software person in history, so it hardly matters if he said it or not.
 
heatlesssun said:
At any rate, he's the most financially successful software person in history, so it hardly matters if he said it or not.

That would be john Rockefeller by a large margin.
 
Bill Gates never said anything of the sort.

He sure as hell did. I had a screensaver around 95 for win95 with his mug and a wave file that played the quote before the screensaver stars to distort his face.

It sure as shit happened.
 
"we want to see if someone’s talking about nuclear weapons, or bioterrorism or various bad things"

Talking about all of those things is free speech. I am not part of the "we" he speaks of. Does he think the NSA works for him? Is he on the NSA payroll?
 
"we want to see if someone’s talking about nuclear weapons, or bioterrorism or various bad things"

Talking about all of those things is free speech. I am not part of the "we" he speaks of. Does he think the NSA works for him? Is he on the NSA payroll?

Taking a bit too literally. Don't you think people planning these kinds of attacks would be talking about these subjects to a degree far beyond the norm? How much of the average persons daily communications involve nuclear weapons and bioterrorism?
 
That's easy from Billions Bill to say... He doesn't have to worry about that. He'd buy the NSA if they tried it!
 
we really should go back to the days of isolationism. We try to police the world and now look at us, we are trillions in debt at the federal, state, and even individual level. People in the Middle East hate us, some to the point of committing terrorism. our soldiers are dying thousands of miles away from our shorelines in some desert or mountainous caves against foreign peasants. Vast amounts of resources, oil, treasuries are used up to prop this empire up at the expense of the taxpayers. Our government which was 7% of the GDP in the early 1900s is now 25% and growing all in the name of setting up various agencies to "protect" America.

Bill, you are smart and rich but you are also a useful idiot.
 
The revolution was never to avoid paying taxes or some belief that taxation is a problem at all. The slogan is "No taxation without representation", not "No taxation". The modern Tea Party Movement has nothing whatsoever in common with the Sons of Liberty that orchestrated the Boston Tea Party.

That slogan was just a slogan. Once positioned to lead the nation and guide the creation of laws, the people touting it are also empowered to decide how much tax they pay and how to structure a system so it favors them without appearing slanted to the average person (who really wasn't the target of British taxes anyhow since it was businesses that were moving all the moolahs). Now, there are lots of ways for business entities and their owners to pay fewer taxes which kinda demonstrates just how that all worked out in the end. At the end of it all, being all anti-UK got a buncha people killed who could have just not worried about it because their day to day lives would have been no different on behalf of some rich guys who used 18th century flashy slogans and trendy methods to trick common people into working for them. It's kinda sad that we haven't been able to look back at the past and figure that out. Even a couple hundred years later, we're still blinded somewhat by the stuff they put out then.

Also, idk how the Tea Party is even related to not having a realistic perspective of history. Anyone can be sort of sucked into not knowing the past whether or not they claim to be in one or another political group.
 
I agree with him.

Government clandestine snooping, 'spying,' investigation, whatever you want to call it, doesn't have to be a dichotomy of no snooping or universal snooping. There just needs to be an appropriate check-and-balance system.
 
There is nothing wrong with government surveillance as long as a warrant for it is first obtained. (Proper, legal warrant.)
 
maybe, they should stop this warmongering and put an end to this constant state of fear that is induced by putting out all these lies. the only reason this exists is to give those with power even more power. there aren't that many terrorists to require such an infrastructure. it's just about industrial espionage and power over the population. the whole meaning of the word "terrorism" has been perverted over the last ten or more years. after all the pentagon re-branded the constitutional right to protest as "low-level terrorism". it's disgusting.
The reality is because we have an Administration that has declared 'external terrorism over', they can't afford to have something happen. They are in terror of it for political reasons. So they've let the agencies trample over the public's privacy to avoid a political catastophy if their policy backfired.

They'll turn this stuff off just before they leave office and take bows for doing it. Leaving the potential problems to the next guy.
 
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

Easily said by a great, genuinely original man and brilliant thinker, who never in his wildest dreams could have imagined 9/11. I also think the use of the word "essential liberty" is often mischaracterized here. Out of all of the (often ridiculous and fantastical) things the NSA is accused of doing, I can't recall a single episode in my entire life in which one of my essential liberties was compromised or negated by what they've purportedly done. Which kind of makes me wonder whether they've been doing it in the first place--but, hey, in this looney-tunes period the country is going through, what does rationality have to do anything?
 
Easily said by a great, genuinely original man and brilliant thinker, who never in his wildest dreams could have imagined 9/11. I also think the use of the word "essential liberty" is often mischaracterized here. Out of all of the (often ridiculous and fantastical) things the NSA is accused of doing, I can't recall a single episode in my entire life in which one of my essential liberties was compromised or negated by what they've purportedly done. Which kind of makes me wonder whether they've been doing it in the first place--but, hey, in this looney-tunes period the country is going through, what does rationality have to do anything?

What? Someone who lived through much more violent times couldn't envision 9/11? Yea, no. Entire cities burned during his lifetime.
 
45163685.jpg

Rich people lie and cheat. I am shocked. :D
 
What? Someone who lived through much more violent times couldn't envision 9/11? Yea, no. Entire cities burned during his lifetime.

Two 1000' + buildings being hit by two air planes, then burning and crashing to the ground is something even most people living today probably never envisioned. I've been to those buildings and just seeing them destroyed like that on TV, it was a life changing event in that I now firmly believe that it would be a SERIOUS mistake to never think it can't get worse. And beyond, to think that if something like this did happen again that whatever issues we have with NSA spying now would only get worse.

Like I said earlier, peopling seeing buildings of those size just wiped on the face of Earth, you can't ask for better propaganda.
 
Two 1000' + buildings being hit by two air planes, then burning and crashing to the ground is something even most people living today probably never envisioned. I've been to those buildings and just seeing them destroyed like that on TV, it was a life changing event in that I now firmly believe that it would be a SERIOUS mistake to never think it can't get worse. And beyond, to think that if something like this did happen again that whatever issues we have with NSA spying now would only get worse.

Like I said earlier, peopling seeing buildings of those size just wiped on the face of Earth, you can't ask for better propaganda.

You're being a bit too literal here. The was more destruction and "terror" during his lifetime than there is now.

Entire countries being reshaped by revolution and insurgency. Cities burning to the ground.
 
It isn't bad when the government is looking for something specific such as a known criminal or terrorist, and doing so with a warrant.

The way they are going about it now is more of a guilty until proven innocent approach. Collect all data, even unnecessary data, then parse through it to find potentially useful info.

I would have much less problem with how much spying power they were capable of if they were only collecting the info as needed. If collecting every goddamn email, phone call, text message, etc. is what they claim they need to do their job, then they need to find another way of doing it.

So would you go and get a warrant if someone had a bomb strapped to themselves getting ready to blow up a building? I personally don't care because there are a hundred more things that are more important that the Government does that should be recognized first. This is just a smokescreen to distract us from other things our government is doing and they want to get us paranoid. It seems you have fallen into their trap like everyone else...
 
Of course he doesn't give a shit. He's so rich that he's in a different world. These piddling matters don't concern him. He's too busy trying to get brown people to stop having kids.
 
You're being a bit too literal here. The was more destruction and "terror" during his lifetime than there is now.

Entire countries being reshaped by revolution and insurgency. Cities burning to the ground.

Franklin could have only imagined the scale of destruction cause by modern weaponry. Just one bomb in the right place could kill millions of and reshape our lives and you don't need anything near the man power of an army to do it.
 
Franklin could have only imagined the scale of destruction cause by modern weaponry. Just one bomb in the right place could kill millions of and reshape our lives and you don't need anything near the man power of an army to do it.

I'm trying to figure out how this is relevant, my good man.
 
This "fear" everyone keeps talking about, while understandable, is exactly the reason why our freedoms are under assault. The government is able to take such liberties, all the while taking a lot more than what is required. Sure, 9/11 was a terrible thing, however, if you live in a constant state of fear, the "terrorists" have already won. That includes the govt.
 
Two 1000' + buildings being hit by two air planes, then burning and crashing to the ground is something even most people living today probably never envisioned. I've been to those buildings and just seeing them destroyed like that on TV, it was a life changing event in that I now firmly believe that it would be a SERIOUS mistake to never think it can't get worse. And beyond, to think that if something like this did happen again that whatever issues we have with NSA spying now would only get worse.

Like I said earlier, peopling seeing buildings of those size just wiped on the face of Earth, you can't ask for better propaganda.
Given how divided our nation is these days, I think the reaction to another 9/11 type event would be much different. The government would try and grab more power as the always do, but I don't believe the populace as whole will unite as before—quite the opposite, in fact.
 
Two 1000' + buildings being hit by two air planes, then burning and crashing to the ground is something even most people living today probably never envisioned. I've been to those buildings and just seeing them destroyed like that on TV, it was a life changing event in that I now firmly believe that it would be a SERIOUS mistake to never think it can't get worse. And beyond, to think that if something like this did happen again that whatever issues we have with NSA spying now would only get worse.

Like I said earlier, peopling seeing buildings of those size just wiped on the face of Earth, you can't ask for better propaganda.

And I imagine you held this exact same view during the Bush administration. ;)
 
And I imagine you held this exact same view during the Bush administration. ;)

I've described in some detail what was going on with me that day. I will never forget it. Having seen those buildings before in all of their glory in the flesh and then seeing burn and crash to ground in utter destruction, it was beyond obvious on that day our lives were going to change and there probably wasn't an American adult at the time that didn't think the same thing.
 
Of course he would like to keep his wealth and do with it as he pleases . A change of the status quo, i.e. regime change, might also change this state of affairs, so I can't really blame him. I guess I would do the same in his place.
 
The Ben Franklin quote I think is out of context. If he were alive today he may say something different. It's like if Jesus walked in a church nowadays he'd probably do a big face-palm.

Of course, just IMHO
 
The Ben Franklin quote I think is out of context. If he were alive today he may say something different. It's like if Jesus walked in a church nowadays he'd probably do a big face-palm.

Of course, just IMHO

There's a point where the rubber meets the road. If someone running for POTUS were to ever say publically "I don't care how many 9/11s happen, I will always stand up for Constitution!" I guarantee that person would never be elected President, I doubt Franklin would vote for them either.
 
There's a point where the rubber meets the road. If someone running for POTUS were to ever say publically "I don't care how many 9/11s happen, I will always stand up for Constitution!" I guarantee that person would never be elected President, I doubt Franklin would vote for them either.
If that person said they would follow the Constitution by declaring total war then following it up with the complete annihilation of the enemy—as opposed to this nation building crap with PC rules of engagement—I bet they would get voted in.
 
If that person said they would follow the Constitution by declaring total war then following it up with the complete annihilation of the enemy—as opposed to this nation building crap with PC rules of engagement—I bet they would get voted in.

I agree.
 
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