Bill Being Pushed to Outlaw Bots From Snatching Up Online Goods

[kaneO]

Lucky you, I've been trying Best Buy since February at least and have scored exactly 0 things from them. Perhaps you live in an area that isn't as populated, since they have to allocate enough to your store. Many times have I gotten past the queue and been given the glorious error of no stock within 250 miles of me. In my experience their decision to arbitrarily assign gpus by location is a bigger problem.

Population is about 140k and my success rate is probably less than 5% lol. Best way is to just make people go to the store to buy them though.

 

[1_rick]

xactly, if anything this I think will be used as legislation to force companies to increase their web security and features

I wouldn't trust most governments to do anything smarter than "solve" the problem by fining companies that don't somehow stop scalping.

 

[hititnquitit]

I'm not the one trolling. You just arbitrarily insulted people in here and you didn't actually provide an idea. You just agreed with someone else's ... an idea that wasn't good in the first place.

🤣 I see. For the third time you completely, purposely, misinterpret plainly spelled out English and I'm somehow insulting people? Mmmyeah. So weak.
The opinion of the community troll...sniff, means o so much to me. Im truly truly touched. Your contribution is overwhelming.
Thanks for trying

 

[Shoganai]

🤣 I see. For the third time you completely, purposely, misinterpret plainly spelled out English and I'm somehow insulting people? Mmmyeah. So weak.
The opinion of the community troll...sniff, means o so much to me. Im truly truly touched. Your contribution is overwhelming.
Thanks for trying

What have you contributed? I’m glad I could make a difference in your life.

 

[drklu]

I agree in general the government can go pound sand. However there is zero reason retailers would bother implementing measures to curtail this. They make their sale, that's all that matters. In fact it would be easier to sell 100 gpus to one person that deal with 100 individual transactions. So left to the open market, scalping will only continue.

Your probably right but I hope as the fight against it gains more momentum it will persuade retailers to do something. Probably a pipe dream but there has to be a line somewhere. It's pretty ridiculous these days..

 

[TheSlySyl]

Honestly, just it being illegal would make some things easier. Just because making something illegal can't stop it 100% doesn't mean that it isn't worth doing. No law is 100% effective. Literally zero of them. However every single law DOES have an effect.

What this would do is probably make it so that people can't easily go to Ebay or Amazon or any other re-seller and sell stuff immediately, entirely automated. Would it solve the problem completely? No. Would it probably help out and give more people a chance? Yes.

If it stops a few major resellers and scares the fuck out of everyone else, its probably worth at least attempting instead of just throwing your hands up in the air and going "not worth it."

 

[arnemetis]

Your probably right but I hope as the fight against it gains more momentum it will persuade retailers to do something. Probably a pipe dream but there has to be a line somewhere. It's pretty ridiculous these days..

I've thought about it more, and if there's too much backlash from consumers, retailers could entirely abandon the consumer market and just sell directly to miners/scalpers/whoever would buy them by the pallet. What a horrible world that would be, but it would maximize profits for them.

 

[FurbySlayer]

Excellent! I'm hoping to see this get passed. I was getting concerned, as this has been a major hurdle in acquiring a PS5 here...

how many decades ago was it that they were going to end spam calls?

 

[TeeJayHoward]

how many decades ago was it that they were going to end spam calls?

• Robocall Mitigation Database Opens; Filing Instructions and Deadlines (April 20, 2021)
• FCC Denies STIR/SHAKEN Caller ID Authentication Extension Petitions (March 30, 2021)
• FCC Adopts Call Authentication Trust Anchor Second Further Notice (January 13, 2021)
• Report to Congress on Caller ID Authentication Implementation Process (December 29, 2020)
• Seven Voice Service Providers Qualified for Stir/Shaken Exemption (December 23, 2020)
• FCC Issues Caller ID Authentication Best Practices (December 22, 2020)
• Request for Extension of STIR/SHAKEN Deadline and Petition Filed (December 4, 2020)
• FCC Adopts New Rules to Combat Spoofed Robocalls (September 29, 2020)
• FCC Mandates STIR/SHAKEN to Combat Spoofed Robocalls (March 31, 2020)

Not all THAT long ago, honestly. Most cell phones will now display "Likely spam" or similar, and you can tell the phones to automatically drop those calls.

 

[Armenius]

• Robocall Mitigation Database Opens; Filing Instructions and Deadlines (April 20, 2021)
• FCC Denies STIR/SHAKEN Caller ID Authentication Extension Petitions (March 30, 2021)
• FCC Adopts Call Authentication Trust Anchor Second Further Notice (January 13, 2021)
• Report to Congress on Caller ID Authentication Implementation Process (December 29, 2020)
• Seven Voice Service Providers Qualified for Stir/Shaken Exemption (December 23, 2020)
• FCC Issues Caller ID Authentication Best Practices (December 22, 2020)
• Request for Extension of STIR/SHAKEN Deadline and Petition Filed (December 4, 2020)
• FCC Adopts New Rules to Combat Spoofed Robocalls (September 29, 2020)
• FCC Mandates STIR/SHAKEN to Combat Spoofed Robocalls (March 31, 2020)

Not all THAT long ago, honestly. Most cell phones will now display "Likely spam" or similar, and you can tell the phones to automatically drop those calls.

The first one was signed into law in 1991, so it's been at least 3 decades.

https://www.fcc.gov/document/telephone-consumer-protection-act-1991

 

[pfc_m_drake]

I also hate bots/scalpers, but I don't know what can be done about it (and trying to pass some law/bill to stop it is pretty ignorant).

I *could* see old-fashioned B&M being the 'answer'. Disney just trespassed a bunch of scalper resellers who were hoarding/reselling merchandise.

Separately, I was walking through my local mall the other day and noticed that there was an Amazon Store...which made me go

 

[TeeJayHoward]

The first one was signed into law in 1991, so it's been at least 3 decades.

https://www.fcc.gov/document/telephone-consumer-protection-act-1991

I completely forgot about that. A legitimately GOOD law, and one that is (mostly) adhered to. Problem is that it’s a US law, so if the company doing the calling is in, let’s say, a “dealership warranty center” in India, they’re still allowed to spam ya. That’s where STIR/SHAKEN comes in. We can’t just cut off all calls from India, but we CAN tell the customer that this is likely a junk call.

 

[Axman]

That’s where STIR/SHAKEN comes in. We can’t just cut off all calls from India, but we CAN tell the customer that this is likely a junk call.

So this bill will do nothing for 30 years then be amended with a bunch of new legislation that informs us that the website we tried to order components from is out of stock likely because of foreign bot sales?

 

[sleepeeg3]

I just wish people would stop paying the inflated price scalpers are asking. I respect that it's your money, so I don't blame anyone for doing it when that's the only option. But if you keep paying them, they're going to keep scalping and finding new ways to do it.

Supply and demand. Government can institute as many worthless regulations as it wants. However, the invisible hand will ensure consumers with the most time/money get what they want.

Reading the article...

The fact that the last attempt never made it out of committee means this has no chance of going anywhere. Nor should it. The last thing the government should be doing is sticking its nose in luxury good market resale values. There are far more important things out there that should be a higher priority (inflation for example).

Exactly. Stop printing money and things won't cost so much. GPU's, for example, are in high demand because inflation causing consumers to look for alternative ways to invest their money.

 

[GreenLaser]

Ive been getting phone spam since they all had wires and still get them 40 years later by the bushel. the govt got them labeled as likely spam WOOHOO. How much did that "Label" cost us in 40+ years.

To look for a solution you must first identify the problem. The Problem is 100% supply! In a free economy the supplier would produce enough to fill 100% of demand. Failure doing that would be lost profits and an opening for a competitor to begin to fill the demand and take market share. Lack of competition is a contributor to the problem as AMD seems to have the same issue.

The failure of multiple GPU chip suppliers to fill demand is directly due to govt interference via lockdowns around the globe. And Indirect govt intervention is flooding the markets with cash causing inflation. Consumers with pockets full of cash raises overall demand. Inflation also drives the crypto valuations UP as consumers try to escape cash devaluation. So as mining becomes more profitable demand for mining hardware also goes up. This is a perfect storm of idiocracy. Get these clowns to stop meddling in business and the market will fix itself with no legislation needed.

 

[obs]

Scalpers are a result of demand outstripping supply. This bill is dumb and does zero to assist the common consumer as it doesn't fix the underlying issues that cause demand to exceed supply.

 

[FurbySlayer]

• Robocall Mitigation Database Opens; Filing Instructions and Deadlines (April 20, 2021)
• FCC Denies STIR/SHAKEN Caller ID Authentication Extension Petitions (March 30, 2021)
• FCC Adopts Call Authentication Trust Anchor Second Further Notice (January 13, 2021)
• Report to Congress on Caller ID Authentication Implementation Process (December 29, 2020)
• Seven Voice Service Providers Qualified for Stir/Shaken Exemption (December 23, 2020)
• FCC Issues Caller ID Authentication Best Practices (December 22, 2020)
• Request for Extension of STIR/SHAKEN Deadline and Petition Filed (December 4, 2020)
• FCC Adopts New Rules to Combat Spoofed Robocalls (September 29, 2020)
• FCC Mandates STIR/SHAKEN to Combat Spoofed Robocalls (March 31, 2020)

Not all THAT long ago, honestly. Most cell phones will now display "Likely spam" or similar, and you can tell the phones to automatically drop those calls.

it started with the do not call database, which became the definitive real phone number database to the spammers and yea it was a very long time ago..
government wont stop nothing.
every time they up the anti on spam callers it only gets worse.

 

[FurbySlayer]

Scalpers are a result of demand outstripping supply. This bill is dumb and does zero to assist the common consumer as it doesn't fix the underlying issues that cause demand to exceed supply.

i would say this time is also represented by people finding loads of free time and free money from the covid.

 

[MrGuvernment]

I'd like to see the bill go one step further and outlaw mining. Seeing how everything is going "green" Mining is not green, its wastes energy.

So lets ban the entire banking system then because of the resources they waste every single day in lavish offices and all that comes from that?

There are FAR FAR larger waste of power than mining vs what mining has helped to create. Those who want to ban mining are just bitter cause they cant get a new video card, to which you should be getting mad at the OEMs selling pallets worth to miners instead of getting them in the hands of stores.

 

[1_rick]

you can tell the phones to automatically drop those calls.

You sure about that? As far as I can tell Android just routes said calls to voicemail, which I absolutely don't want, because then I have to go in there to delete them.

 

[1_rick]

That’s where STIR/SHAKEN comes in. We can’t just cut off all calls from India, but we CAN tell the customer that this is likely a junk call.

I would think "reject all calls that didn't come from the US but are showing caller ID info claiming they're from the US" would get rid of a LOT of phone spam.

I get calls constantly on my cell phone. Many of them are obviously fake even without the phone warning me, because they claim to come from my exchange--I'm sure they do that to make you think it's a neighbor or local business, when you see the first 6 digits are the same as yours. The thing is, due to a fluke, the exchange my number is in is from the opposite side of the area code from where I live, and I never go there, nor do I know anyone there, so I would never know someone calling from that exchange; it's actually an effectively-perfect filter!

 

[Comixbooks]

Scapling basically you have two middlemen the scapler and original manufacturer the scalper serves no purpose except to piss people off.

 

[serpretetsky]

I would think "reject all calls that didn't come from the US but are showing caller ID info claiming they're from the US" would get rid of a LOT of phone spam.

I get calls constantly on my cell phone. Many of them are obviously fake even without the phone warning me, because they claim to come from my exchange--I'm sure they do that to make you think it's a neighbor or local business, when you see the first 6 digits are the same as yours. The thing is, due to a fluke, the exchange my number is in is from the opposite side of the area code from where I live, and I never go there, nor do I know anyone there, so I would never know someone calling from that exchange; it's actually an effectively-perfect filter!

Heh. Same for me. I actually know people from my area code, but If I get a call that is from my area code but I do not recognize the number it is 99% probability a spam call. Very effective filter!

 

[michalrz]

Bots aren't even needed. Services such as captcha solving farms (very low latency, too) can be had for peanuts, and the cost of "hiring" click-work people from a developing country is minuscule compared to the margin a scalper sets.

 

[serpretetsky]

Scapling basically you have two middlemen the scapler and original manufacturer the scalper serves no purpose except to piss people off.

The original manufacturer is a middle man between what? The consumer and his precious sand and PCB resin? . I guess sand and PCB resin are also middle men to the elements I actually want . Just give me my silicon damn it! I know what to do with it!

 

[TeeJayHoward]

I would think "reject all calls that didn't come from the US but are showing caller ID info claiming they're from the US" would get rid of a LOT of phone spam.

And that's basically what STIR/SHAKEN is. All it does is prevent caller ID spoofing. It says, "We, Verizon/ATT/TMo/Comcast/etc, do hereby certify that the number showing up on your screen IS the originating number."

I believe most cellular phones these days can require the flag to be set in order for the phone to ring - All other calls get sent to voicemail or dropped. Unfortunately, it's still the early days of the tech. Phones don't have the "drop spoofed calls" set by default. As more and more telecom companies get on board with it and the key network expands, fewer and fewer spoofed calls should be getting through. I'd guess spoofed calls have less than a decade left.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Hit this on the retail side of things, don't make it a crime for a person to use a bot make it a crime for a retailer to sell to a bot.

I *could* see old-fashioned B&M being the 'answer'. Disney just trespassed a bunch of scalper resellers who were hoarding/reselling merchandise.

The problem is the Disney thing is people using their annual pass to snatch up a discount, then reselling at the non-discounted (or higher) price, they can track who buys what, and know if said person comes back into the park. The problem is also compounded because Disney has a bunch of cheaply made crap that they purposefully keep "low stock" so that it is high demand, cheap plastic isn't a limited resource unlike silicon and hopes and dreams of kids on christmas. The only way a B&M could do it is to require a drivers license and then keep a database of who bought what... plus telling B&M "yeah you're not allowed to sell stuff online anymore" really will go over well.

Personally I just imagine in my head some old farts in congress shaking their fists at the sky screaming "someone needs to block those tubes!"

 

[DooKey]

https://www.pcmag.com/news/democrats-push-bill-to-outlaw-bots-from-snatching-up-online-goods

“The average holiday shopper is unable to compete with the light speed of the all-too-common Grinch bot and are then held at ransom by scalpers and third-party resellers when trying to buy holiday presents,” Schumer said in the announcement. "After a particularly trying year, no parent or American should have to fork over hundreds—or even thousands—of dollars to buy Christmas and holiday gifts for their children and loved ones."

Thank god!

Try to keep this non political, this can positively affect all of us in the future who want to maintain our hobbies.

Nanny state garbage.

P.S. Please don't breed.

 

[hititnquitit]

Are there ANY industries out there that have effectively dealt with scalpers? Something to lean into at least?

Making retailers/e-tailers responsible for eliminating bots is a great start. Without bots scalpers are cutoff at the knees.

From what I've learned scalping pc gear is just a tiny fraction of the bigger problem. Scalping has become a new lucrative way of life for the scumbags of American society and the world. These people have found a new way of funding their lives and they aren't going to give it up until they are forced to. They will scalp ANYTHING, craft supplies, shoes, jewelry, clothes, toilet paper, collectibles, electronics, you name it, they scalp it. If there is a demand for it, a potential to create profits and somewhat limited supply. They will coordinate with other like minded dbags and buy up every last drop. Thereby creating an artificial shortage and a flipping they will go. That's what these losers call scalping btw...flipping(cute huh). So one way or another, I'd like to see scalping crushed.
If it takes sloppy legislation to get it started, so be it. They can tighten shit up as they go.
Or, of course we can continue tolerating this bs waiting for someone else to man up and do something about this plague.

 

[Krenum]

Nanny state garbage.

P.S. Please don't breed.

Found the scalper

 

[GoldenTiger]

Found the scalper

Found the nanny stater.

 

[Axman]

Are there ANY industries out there that have effectively dealt with scalpers? Something to lean into at least?

Yeah, the ATF makes scalping guns pretty tough.

 

[Krenum]

Found the nanny stater.

And the other one...

 

[TeeJayHoward]

Yeah, the ATF makes scalping guns pretty tough.

They do? Admittedly, I've never been after any high-value guns. Mine are always like a Remington 700, or an AR-15, or an old M-1 Garand. Common firearms, and nothing anyone would scalp.

For new purchases, I've always walked into the store, said "Gimme that one" or "Order me this", filled out a form, and gotten a call a few hours or days later. Buying a gun off a friend was generally a cash deal, no ATF involvement. As far as I know, it would have been pretty easy for me to order a dozen firearms and then sell them locally for a markup.

 

[Axman]

As far as I know, it would have been pretty easy for me to order a dozen firearms and then sell them locally for a markup.

Yeah, they investigate repeated sales for profit by people who aren't in business with them, at least with online sales and advertising. A person could probably go unnoticed if they were selling out of the back of their trunk by word of mouth, but then that's a riskier endeavor.

I just think it's funny to imagine people wanting their computer parts regulated like arms. So, so many dogs could have gone unharmed...

 

[GoldenTiger]

And the other one...

As if scalping is bad... It's just business.

 

[arnemetis]

As if scalping is bad... It's just business.

You have a very poor opinion on what business is. Scalping extracts value from consumers without providing any benefit. If 100% of scalpers dropped dead tomorrow, nothing of value would be lost. Now a business that provides actual service, such as say Newegg, can also overcharge their products but they are still providing service to consumers via a web store that legally tracks the transaction, provides a receipt for warranty purposes, will allow you to return products, etc. If they vanished tomorrow it would be problematic, though not catastrophically so because other places like Amazon or Best Buy exist. They also must compete against these other stores, so they are not really free to charge anything at all. When scalpers snatch up all available inventory from retailers who had to sell at a reasonable price to stay afloat, the scalpers create artificial scarcity for their own profit. It really is just little more than stealing, opportunistic resale should be something shunned in a decent society.

Now again, I don't think government intervention is the answer here, but perhaps a lack of it is. Maybe they create exceptions that if someone is a scalper, no one will be arrested & tried if they are found murdered? In this way the governement is actually taking less action. Yes it's extreme, but I think that would sort this out very quickly.

 

[Shoganai]

You have a very poor opinion on what business is. Scalping extracts value from consumers without providing any benefit. If 100% of scalpers dropped dead tomorrow, nothing of value would be lost. Now a business that provides actual service, such as say Newegg, can also overcharge their products but they are still providing service to consumers via a web store that legally tracks the transaction, provides a receipt for warranty purposes, will allow you to return products, etc. If they vanished tomorrow it would be problematic, though not catastrophically so because other places like Amazon or Best Buy exist. They also must compete against these other stores, so they are not really free to charge anything at all. When scalpers snatch up all available inventory from retailers who had to sell at a reasonable price to stay afloat, the scalpers create artificial scarcity for their own profit. It really is just little more than stealing, opportunistic resale should be something shunned in a decent society.

Now again, I don't think government intervention is the answer here, but perhaps a lack of it is. Maybe they create exceptions that if someone is a scalper, no one will be arrested & tried if they are found murdered? In this way the governement is actually taking less action. Yes it's extreme, but I think that would sort this out very quickly.

Everything you're saying is far darker and worse than scalping. Yes, scalping sucks, but it's not an offense that deserves death, and if people didn't find value in the higher prices they wouldn't buy them and botting would cease to exist. People keep buying the items, in large numbers, so there is a market for it. People are speaking with their wallets ... just not in the way that we want them to. It is getting ridiculous though ... like that high speed boat chase in China in which, after they caught the guy, found that the boat was loaded with GPUs. Graphics cards are apparently the new cocaine.

 

[arnemetis]

Everything you're saying is far darker and worse than scalping. Yes, scalping sucks, but it's not an offense that deserves death, and if people didn't find value in the higher prices they wouldn't buy them and botting would cease to exist. People keep buying the items, in large numbers, so there is a market for it. People are speaking with their wallets ... just not in the way that we want them to. It is getting ridiculous though ... like that high speed boat chase in China in which, after they caught the guy, found that the boat was loaded with GPUs. Graphics cards are apparently the new cocaine.

Yup, I did say it was extreme, but if that was actually passed, I would say it would be a safe bet that 99% of scalpers would stop overnight, because no one wants to risk dying to make easy money. The problem right now is there is no consequence, and this goes further than just this topic but I don't want ot get into soap box territory. I disagree that it is worse, far too high of value is placed on human life universally. This is a slippery slope though that if left unchecked will continue to expand. We see it now expanding past ticket sales and sneakers into the gpu and console market, right? What else is a high value but high demand product, how about baby formula? Just because the market is speaking with their wallets doesn't mean it's a good or sustainable thing. These people are leeches on the world, and more are born each day. Why would anyone work when I could just scalp stuff to suckers? Pretty soon the entire world is scalpers, and no one can afford to eat anymore and nothing is produced anymore. This is the real problem, when everyone gives up beign productive and just wants their easy piece of free money, everyone loses.

Yeah it really is getting to be like the next drug market, in addition to that boat chase, there was that evga truck stolen a week or two back.

 

[Shoganai]

Yup, I did say it was extreme, but if that was actually passed, I would say it would be a safe bet that 99% of scalpers would stop overnight, because no one wants to risk dying to make easy money. The problem right now is there is no consequence, and this goes further than just this topic but I don't want ot get into soap box territory. I disagree that it is worse, far too high of value is placed on human life universally. This is a slippery slope though that if left unchecked will continue to expand. We see it now expanding past ticket sales and sneakers into the gpu and console market, right? What else is a high value but high demand product, how about baby formula? Just because the market is speaking with their wallets doesn't mean it's a good or sustainable thing. These people are leeches on the world, and more are born each day. Why would anyone work when I could just scalp stuff to suckers? Pretty soon the entire world is scalpers, and no one can afford to eat anymore and nothing is produced anymore. This is the real problem, when everyone gives up beign productive and just wants their easy piece of free money, everyone loses.

Yeah it really is getting to be like the next drug market, in addition to that boat chase, there was that evga truck stolen a week or two back.

I agree that extreme measures would definitely stop things. I think just making it illegal would stop many from doing it. There's no risk involved right now ... no consequences like you said. The only consequence is pissing people off. And it does seem to be getting worse.