Bill Being Pushed to Outlaw Bots From Snatching Up Online Goods

[Shoganai]

Why don't we just print the price on the item and make it illegal to sell it for anything other than the list price?

Then the entire resale market, which has existed outside of bots for decades, would cease to exist. It’s just completely unrealistic. And also stupid. If people weren’t paying these prices, botting wouldn’t exist. But this is the market value people have deemed these things are worth. They are still “flying off the shelves.” If you want to blame anyone, blame everyone else buying these things. They’re the only reason botting exists. There’s a market for those willing to pay. And those willing to pay seems to be most people.

 

[Darunion]

Weird how people want less regulation until something annoys them then they want it made illegal. Also the only way this could be done is with more data collecting and verification of who is purchasing, which with a data breach happening on every day that ends in "y", probably isn't a good idea.

Also, don't pay $1,000 for a nintendo switch, because to another point you provide market data that the price has a lot of flexibility and that even at 2x the price it still sells.

What this will just end up creating is some unenforceable law and will open up 'item purchasing services'. Companies full of people that just go out and buy things on a list to then resell at higher price, not a bot anymore but same problem.

i dunno, this just feels like a "look how much i am doing because I care and vote for me" kind of bill to me. Ill get down from my milk crate and stop screaming into the yard and go back to the porch chair now.

 

[drklu]

Change should come from the retailers selling the products not the gov't. They just want to intrude into more aspects of our lives every day. We have already seen companies implement bot protection on their websites. Although it isn't perfect I would imagine if the pushback of customers grows companies will put in more effort.

 

[Jim Kim]

Imagine a world where GPU’s don’t go out of stock between the time it takes from when it’s in your shopping cart until you complete the purchase.

 

[arnemetis]

Change should come from the retailers selling the products not the gov't. They just want to intrude into more aspects of our lives every day. We have already seen companies implement bot protection on their websites. Although it isn't perfect I would imagine if the pushback of customers grows companies will put in more effort.

I agree in general the government can go pound sand. However there is zero reason retailers would bother implementing measures to curtail this. They make their sale, that's all that matters. In fact it would be easier to sell 100 gpus to one person that deal with 100 individual transactions. So left to the open market, scalping will only continue.

 

[Armenius]

Imagine a world where GPU’s don’t go out of stock between the time it takes from when it’s in your shopping cart until you complete the purchase.

This would go a long way. If you get an item into your cart then lock it out from everybody else for a set time period. If you're not checked out within the time limit then it gets released back into the pool. There have been numerous occasions when I'd get an item in my cart, have all my payment and shipping information saved, only to be told it's no longer available after the whole 15 seconds it took me to click through checkout.

 

[Shoganai]

This would go a long way. If you get an item into your cart then lock it out from everybody else for a set time period. If you're not checked out within the time limit then it gets released back into the pool. There have been numerous occasions when I'd get an item in my cart, have all my payment and shipping information saved, only to be told it's no longer available after the whole 15 seconds it took me to click through checkout.

And this is why I haven’t gotten a PS5 in a year, lol. This would be the best idea. Some sites already have what you’re saying in place and it would be the most logical. If you add an item to the cart before someone else, that item should be temporarily locked to you until you are done with the transaction.

 

[sharknice]

WOW sounds great, now I can buy a PS5! WRONG


This will do nothing to help the problem. It's politicians pandering to people that can't think more than 1 step ahead.


It can't be enforced....


But let's pretend it could be enforced and all bot purchases were stopped.
There's plenty of other ways scalpers will beat you to the purchase. They can have people sitting waiting to click, and it's their job and they do it all the time so they'll be faster than you. They can pay farms of people next to nothing in India or China to do it for them. And there are a million other ways to buy them before you can.


Ok now let's pretend the scalpers could be stopped from purchasing completely even though they cannot and never will be stopped.
You're still not getting a PS5.
Millions of other people are trying to buy them and they're going to sell out before you get one.


Because you never solved the real problem. Supply doesn't meet demand.



And there are negative side effects to passing bullshit laws like this.

 

[hititnquitit]

Surely with all of the bright minds on this forum someone can come up with a truly viable option to end the scalping of hot items? At least someone somewhere is TRYING.
Rather than piss on every and all suggestions for a fix, do the real work and either build off anothers idea or -GASP- come up with your own solution.

So far the consensus seems to be government intervention bad. We don't seem to have a clue what they'll do exactly but it'll be baad fo sho. Even if they do create something effective they couldn't possibly enforce it, cuz gubment.

People that overpay are the problem, not those pesky scalpers using bots.

Fix the supply problems and the scalper problem will fix itself!

Everyone has a mile long list of reasons why it just...cant...be...done but not one person can come up with a solution?

Axmans solution is the basis for a start.
The farmers can be dealt with just like the bots. There's a solution to every problem.

 

[Furious_Styles]

Surely with all of the bright minds on this forum someone can come up with a truly viable option to end the scalping of hot items? At least someone somewhere is TRYING.
Rather than piss on every and all suggestions for a fix, do the real work and either build off anothers idea or -GASP- come up with your own solution.

So far the consensus seems to be government intervention bad. We don't seem to have a clue what they'll do exactly but it'll be baad fo sho. Even if they do create something effective they couldn't possibly enforce it, cuz gubment.

People that overpay are the problem, not those pesky scalpers using bots.

Fix the supply problems and the scalper problem will fix itself!

Everyone has a mile long list of reasons why it just...cant...be...done but not one person can come up with a solution?

Axmans solution is the basis for a start.
The farmers can be dealt with just like the bots. There's a solution to every problem.

Yes it's nice someone is at least trying to do something about the stupid bots. Now you have your average joe buying the bot programs and scalping crap it's so bad.

 

[Shoganai]

Surely with all of the bright minds on this forum someone can come up with a truly viable option to end the scalping of hot items? At least someone somewhere is TRYING.
Rather than piss on every and all suggestions for a fix, do the real work and either build off anothers idea or -GASP- come up with your own solution.

So far the consensus seems to be government intervention bad. We don't seem to have a clue what they'll do exactly but it'll be baad fo sho. Even if they do create something effective they couldn't possibly enforce it, cuz gubment.

People that overpay are the problem, not those pesky scalpers using bots.

Fix the supply problems and the scalper problem will fix itself!

Everyone has a mile long list of reasons why it just...cant...be...done but not one person can come up with a solution?

Axmans solution is the basis for a start.
The farmers can be dealt with just like the bots. There's a solution to every problem.

What’s your solution, Mr. Bright Mind?

 

[arnemetis]

Surely with all of the bright minds on this forum someone can come up with a truly viable option to end the scalping of hot items? At least someone somewhere is TRYING.
Rather than piss on every and all suggestions for a fix, do the real work and either build off anothers idea or -GASP- come up with your own solution.

So far the consensus seems to be government intervention bad. We don't seem to have a clue what they'll do exactly but it'll be baad fo sho. Even if they do create something effective they couldn't possibly enforce it, cuz gubment.

People that overpay are the problem, not those pesky scalpers using bots.

Fix the supply problems and the scalper problem will fix itself!

Everyone has a mile long list of reasons why it just...cant...be...done but not one person can come up with a solution?

Axmans solution is the basis for a start.
The farmers can be dealt with just like the bots. There's a solution to every problem.

Ok, let's play this one out. We can totally stop scalping, today, here we go.

1) Consumers must surrender everything unique about them. To purchase items, one must go to a purchase authorization stand, where a retinal scan, dna sample of blood, their SSN, drivers license, full credit report will be taken. Only then will you be checked against a full global database of every merchant to have ever existed, to ensure you may purchase your single item. You are forbidden from purchasing a second 'hot' item over x time frame, pending abundance of supply.

2) Identify theft will be a big issue here, so that becomes an international capital crime. Any country that does not agree to this, will be barred from any international trade or use of the internet.

3) Individuals or companies caught bypassing these requirements will be swiftly executed, and all their assets seized to fund (and ONLY fund) the authorization network.

4) This of course only works with a unified world government, or at least governments that all agree to this madness.

So, there's the crazy. Try and back off of this, and find a middle ground. I can't. Making something illegal without enforcement is useless, such as the example of printing prices on an object that can never be exceeded. Selling crack is illegal regardless of price, yet it still happens all the time.

 

[sharknice]

Yes it's nice someone is at least trying to do something about the stupid bots. Now you have your average joe buying the bot programs and scalping crap it's so bad.

No, it really isn't nice, it's actually terrible.

It isn't solving the problem at all, and it would actually cause more problems.

For example. It would be illegal to use a bot that purchases toilet paper (or any other non-scarce item). I can no longer simply push a button and have a bot look at different websites, find the best deal, and purchase me toilet paper.

It would be illegal for businesses to use "bots" to automatically purchase more of an item as their inventory starts running low.

And many other stupid things.


So you add a bunch of exceptions to the law and next thing you know this one law is 50 pages long and you need to hire a team of lawyers to know if you can wipe your ass. And cops raid your house in the middle of the night because you have two PS5s.

 

[Furious_Styles]

No, it really isn't nice, it's actually terrible.

It isn't solving the problem at all, and it would actually cause more problems.

For example. It would be illegal to use a bot that purchases toilet paper (or any other non-scarce item). I can no longer simply push a button and have a bot look at different websites, find the best deal, and purchase me toilet paper.

It would be illegal for businesses to use "bots" to automatically purchase more of an item as their inventory starts running low.

And many other stupid things.


So you add a bunch of exceptions to the law and next thing you know this one law is 50 pages long and you need to hire a team of lawyers to know if you can wipe your ass. And cops raid your house in the middle of the night because you have two PS5s.

Sorry you can't use bots, actually I'm not.

 

[Krenum]

Do you not remember the launch of the PS2? It got crazy at brick and mortars in quite a few places. In my town we were visiting the local competitor to blockbuster one afternoon and they had plywood in one of the large plate glass windows, thieves in the night had smashed through it with a one ton van and stole 38 ps2s. We bought the last 2. Then it snowed (really a gigantic ice storm that screwed everyone that didn't have a good diesel generator on a 480+ gallons pedestal tank or better) on Christmas giving us our first white christmas of our lives and it was awesome. The sound of transformers popping at every pole bearing them as far as the eye can see is why I don't mind generator maintenance. When our power went out it was only about 12 minutes before the big 48kw diesel generator was ready to take the load and the 36" trinitron resumed displaying Smuggler's Run.

Oh yeah, it was crazy. I remember hearing about people getting mugged in parking lots, being shot, all sorts of things. I worked at Blockbuster at the time and we had to stop rentals because people wouldn't bring them back.

 

[DoubleTap]

I just wish people would stop paying the inflated price scalpers are asking. I respect that it's your money, so I don't blame anyone for doing it when that's the only option. But if you keep paying them, they're going to keep scalping and finding new ways to do it.

This is not a solution.

This idea only works if nearly everyone adheres to it which means people of means incur a specific cost (not getting what they want) so that "everyone" can obtain an amorphous benefit ("less scalping!")

Game theory suggests that this is just a scheme for more Machiavellian types to reduce competition from more idealistic types.

 

[hititnquitit]

What’s your solution, Mr. Bright Mind?

Sigh
Over your head and below your feet apparently.

 

[Nobu]

This is not a solution.

This idea only works if nearly everyone adheres to it which means people of means incur a specific cost (not getting what they want) so that "everyone" can obtain an amorphous benefit ("less scalping!")

True.

Ideally, supply would keep up with demand, so this wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Unfortunately, reality is resources aren't unlimited, and manufacturers also have to also plan for the next product to replace the current product, which on top of other things just compounds the issue.

The problem is a consumer good is no longer just a consumer good. Now you can make money with it, so individuals, groups, companies, and nations are buying them wherever they can find them. The increased demand is pushing the price up, and scalpers disappearing isn't going to change that.

I can still dream, though...

 

[GreenLaser]

Maybe Chuck and Brandon can fix the Straw Bot Boogeyman like they fixed the rest of th deteriorating economy. When will some of you realize the govt inserting its ham fists into anything does nothing but create a larger problem.

 

[Shoganai]

Sigh
Over your head and below your feet apparently.

So you don’t have one. Got it.

When will some of you realize the govt inserting its ham fists into anything does nothing but create a larger problem.

That’s literally what everyone is saying.

 

[OFaceSIG]

As others have said, I love this in spirit. I don't see how it can be enforced in reality.

 

[TwiceOver]

But how will stubhub and seatgeek continue to exist if they don't buy up all the tickets to resell?

/s

 

[RamboZombie]

Surely with all of the bright minds on this forum someone can come up with a truly viable option to end the scalping of hot items? At least someone somewhere is TRYING.
Rather than piss on every and all suggestions for a fix, do the real work and either build off anothers idea or -GASP- come up with your own solution.

So far the consensus seems to be government intervention bad. We don't seem to have a clue what they'll do exactly but it'll be baad fo sho. Even if they do create something effective they couldn't possibly enforce it, cuz gubment.

People that overpay are the problem, not those pesky scalpers using bots.

Fix the supply problems and the scalper problem will fix itself!

Everyone has a mile long list of reasons why it just...cant...be...done but not one person can come up with a solution?

Axmans solution is the basis for a start.
The farmers can be dealt with just like the bots. There's a solution to every problem.

no, that is just terrible - it's like putting out fire with gasoline - but, at least you tried - so i guess that makes it OK.

 

[hititnquitit]

So you don’t have one. Got it.

You must have missed my suggestion. Ill give you some help. In the first post you quoted, Allll the way down at the bottom... 😆

Wheres yours btw?
Or are you playing our community troll today?

 

[hititnquitit]

no, that is just terrible - it's like putting out fire with gasoline - but, at least you tried - so i guess that makes it OK.

Sheesh, not much faith in our community Rambo?

 

[JSHamlet234]

For their next trick, they are going to make dangerous drugs disappear overnight simply by making them illegal.

 

[sc5mu93]

“The average holiday shopper is unable to compete with the light speed of the all-too-common Grinch bot and are then held at ransom by scalpers and third-party resellers when trying to buy holiday presents,” Schumer said in the announcement. "After a particularly trying year, no parent or American should have to fork over hundreds—or even thousands—of dollars to buy Christmas and holiday gifts for their children and loved ones."

I do find it funny that seems to be directed at parents buying for kids at christmas, rather than all the rest of us getting scammed/scalped into submission for over a year.

 

[Darunion]

“The average holiday shopper is unable to compete with the light speed of the all-too-common Grinch bot and are then held at ransom by scalpers and third-party resellers when trying to buy holiday presents,” Schumer said in the announcement. "After a particularly trying year, no parent or American should have to fork over hundreds—or even thousands—of dollars to buy Christmas and holiday gifts for their children and loved ones."

I do find it funny that seems to be directed at parents buying for kids at christmas, rather than all the rest of us getting scammed/scalped into submission for over a year.

Gotta pull on heart strings to gain bill support. And especially anything that affects kids, that is like Bill Writing 101

 

[Lakados]

I see this similar to stopping robot callers. Phone companies say it's impossible until it's not. They make money on the call just like retailers make the same money regardless of who buys it. From their perspective their just going to lose money.

It is very easy to identify robocalls, telephone providers just don't want to provide the service for free, on my PRI service they have a fee for filtering, labelling, and blocking robocalls and it works for sure.

In regards to enforceable or not, there is a really simple means of combatting it and that is through taxation and fines, there aren't many ways of legitimately blocking bots that work in a way that is feasible, but the "companies" that use them to obtain their supply for resale are registered, just tax and fine them into oblivion. It gets the end result while giving the government an incentive to actually go after them.

Alternatively, the government could use this to enforce fines against legitimate stores who are selling their whole inventories to scalpers because their web stores are lacking in needed security or features and it could be a means of forcing actual retailers to up their web game, as well as forcing Amazon, eBay, and other sites to do a better job of filtering their market places. It comes down to how they choose to enforce the ban on bots.

 

[1_rick]

If you get an item into your cart then lock it out from everybody else for a set time period. If you're not checked out within the time limit then it gets released back into the pool.

Movie theaters have been doing this for years. Probably other sites too but that's the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[Armenius]

Movie theaters have been doing this for years. Probably other sites too but that's the first thing that came to my mind.

Ticketmaster/Live Nation.

 

[Lakados]

Movie theaters have been doing this for years. Probably other sites too but that's the first thing that came to my mind.

Exactly, if anything this I think will be used as legislation to force companies to increase their web security and features, because a company will always look at the cheapest way to do something, and given the frequency and lack of repercussions from all the various security breaches in all the web stores its pretty obvious that the cheapest means is winning. It's obvious that the web presence of most places needs to be seriously stepped up and they could use this as a means of forcing that measure because they aren't doing it on their own.

 

[Teenyman45]

I'd be very leery about this bill. The main point as being publicly described is to criminalize not following an e-tailer terms of service rather than to put the onus of bot prevention on the major e-tailers. At the most basic level, what if the e-tailer has a clause saying your whole IP address can only have one browser window that can't be refreshed more than once an hour? This can easily result in criminalizing all but the most conformist of shopping behavior and does nothing to prevent but rather to encourage horrible website terms of service clauses.

Essentially all of the responsibility should be on Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, etc. to prevent bots and impose criminal penalties for failing to do so just as there penalties (though rarely properly enforced) for failing to safeguard data.

If you're a retailer doing... say... $100,000,000+ or even a billion plus, in annual aggregate online retail revenue then you should have this factored into your IT infrastructure. As for true mom and pop stores not using a major web host's e-commerce software and servers, well they seem to rarely have enough stock to scalp and so might reasonably be left out of such anti-bot measures. Otherwise, go after the e-commerce giants who bear the second most responsibility after the bot-net operators themselves.

 

[Krenum]

Essentially all of the responsibility should be on Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, etc. to prevent bots and impose criminal penalties for failing to do so just as there penalties (though rarely properly enforced) for failing to safeguard data.

This.

Nvidia was smart, they offloaded all their GPU sales onto Best Buy. Still boggles my mind that a company with the kind of revenue that Nvidia has can't properly run their own sales website, lol.

 

[Teenyman45]

This.

Nvidia was smart, they offloaded all their GPU sales onto Best Buy. Still boggles my mind that a company with the kind of revenue that Nvidia has can't properly run their own sales website, lol.

Ignoring all the package sales to AiB Partners, Nvidia offloaded some of their FE sales in the US to Best Buy. Never mind all the direct sales to mining farms, resellers, and bulk buyers.

 

[Shoganai]

You must have missed my suggestion. Ill give you some help. In the first post you quoted, Allll the way down at the bottom... 😆

Wheres yours btw?
Or are you playing our community troll today?

I'm not the one trolling. You just arbitrarily insulted people in here and you didn't actually provide an idea. You just agreed with someone else's ... an idea that wasn't good in the first place.

 

[kaneO]

No need for a bill just sell it at the physical store and require online orders to be picked up from the store.

 

[arnemetis]

No need for a bill just sell it at the physical store and require online orders to be picked up from the store.

Best Buy would like to have a word with you, as that is exactly what they do and it hasn't helped.

 

[kaneO]

Best Buy would like to have a word with you, as that is exactly what they do and it hasn't helped.

lol,I've been able to get all the hard to buys from best buy. It's probably not bot proof but they do require me to respond to an email link before I can purchase

 

[arnemetis]

lol,I've been able to get all the hard to buys from best buy. It's probably not bot proof but they do require me to respond to an email link before I can purchase

Lucky you, I've been trying Best Buy since February at least and have scored exactly 0 things from them. Perhaps you live in an area that isn't as populated, since they have to allocate enough to your store. Many times have I gotten past the queue and been given the glorious error of no stock within 250 miles of me. In my experience their decision to arbitrarily assign gpus by location is a bigger problem.