Big Navi is coming

[IdiotInCharge]

You are correct, that is exactly what I was doing. interesting... wonder why RTX isn't listed a DX12

Sheds a better light on RTX, but I'd still not say they are exactly flying off the shelves.

To evaluate whether RTX is doing well according to the Steam survey, which should track with sales to a large part, we'd need to compare the 'life cycle' of Pascal to Turing RTX.

At this point after release, how were Pascal cards doing versus Maxwell, and compared to those results, how are Turing RTX cards doing versus Pascal, etc.

I'd happily bet that Turing RTX isn't doing as well as Pascal, but also that the margin isn't that great.

 

[ManofGod]

To evaluate whether RTX is doing well according to the Steam survey, which should track with sales to a large part, we'd need to compare the 'life cycle' of Pascal to Turing RTX.

At this point after release, how were Pascal cards doing versus Maxwell, and compared to those results, how are Turing RTX cards doing versus Pascal, etc.

I'd happily bet that Turing RTX isn't doing as well as Pascal, but also that the margin isn't that great.

And for that, you can start a new thread, no problem. Big Navi is coming and should be interesting, considering the RDNA and what it has accomplished so far with so little. I am even more amazed considering where AMD was just 2.5 years ago and how much money they actually have to spend and use. This is one time that a CEO is earning their keep.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

And for that, you can start a new thread, no problem.

Why? You don't like having your dismissal of the Steam Hardware Survey dismissed with facts?

Big Navi is coming and should be interesting

Which I've said, in this thread I believe...

considering the RDNA and what it has accomplished so far with so little.

...introducing a lower-midrange card is an accomplishment?

I am even more amazed considering where AMD was just 2.5 years ago and how much money they actually have to spend and use.

In the GPU space, well, they've lost marketshare. This is a GPU thread, isn't it?

This is one time that a CEO is earning their keep.

If you attribute success or failure to a single person, you are quite strikingly disrespecting the engineering staff actually responsible for these products.

 

[ManofGod]

Why? You don't like having your dismissal of the Steam Hardware Survey dismissed with facts?



Which I've said, in this thread I believe...



...introducing a lower-midrange card is an accomplishment?



In the GPU space, well, they've lost marketshare. This is a GPU thread, isn't it?



If you attribute success or failure to a single person, you are quite strikingly disrespecting the engineering staff actually responsible for these products.

*Cough* Hector Ruiniz *Cough*

"To evaluate whether RTX is doing well according to the Steam survey, which should track with sales to a large part, we'd need to compare the 'life cycle' of Pascal to Turing RTX."

Has nothing to do with Big Navi or AMD or RTG so, make a new thread if you want. Or keep crapping on AMD.......

 

[sabrewolf732]

...introducing a lower-midrange card is an accomplishment?

I'm sorry but the $350-$400 market is not lower mid range, that is insanity. Nvidia having a $1200 card available does not change the market much in the same vein that an audi r8 does not make something like the rs3 mid range.

Or maybe I'm crazy and longing for the days where $400 was high end.

 

[Dayaks]

I’d expect parity with nVidia, minus some kinda important features (RT) for a $700+ card as expensive as it will be, out of big Navi. Generally AMD is $100 over where they should be with their flagship for generations now. Given they don’t have RT maybe they’ll actually price it right, for the people that don’t care about RT at least.

I'm sorry but the $350-$400 market is not lower mid range, that is insanity. Nvidia having a $1200 card available does not change the market much in the same vein that an audi r8 does not make something like the rs3 mid range.

Or maybe I'm crazy and longing for the days where $400 was high end.

1080 was nVidia’s best selling card for Pascal. Does that make the 1080 mid range?

Given I’d agree with you I consider $400-500 mid range.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

*Cough* Hector Ruiniz *Cough*

Yup, you know better than CEOs, and in hindsight, lol.

[hint: you don't]

Has nothing to do with Big Navi or AMD or RTG so, make a new thread if you want. Or keep crapping on AMD.......

Only if you want to ignore AMDs marketshare and then appeal for Big Navi. And since it doesn't look good, it's quite obvious that you want to. The rest of us would like to give AMD a fair shake.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

I'm sorry but the $350-$400 market is not lower mid range, that is insanity. Nvidia having a $1200 card available does not change the market much in the same vein that an audi r8 does not make something like the rs3 mid range.

Or maybe I'm crazy and longing for the days where $400 was high end.

It's a bit of semantics and personal perspective, so like Dayaks above, I'm not going to disagree with you.

In general, what's considered 'high end' has gone up in price with performance and demand for capabilities. We now expect the top-end to be nipping at 4k120 in current AAA-titles. That's a lot.

However, what's needed to 'just play games' isn't that high at all, and really hits around the US$200 - US$300 range depending on title and expectations, at the max.


To support my initial position, what I feel that we're seeing is a broadening of gaming performance strata, where performance segments are perhaps starting to be perceived as being 'stretched' a bit, with the 'low end but serviceable' point actually going lower to the ~US$150 range, and the 'high end' going up to around ~US$800. If we state that the mid-range segment is somewhere between the two, the US$300 - US$400 segment starts looking like the lower-end of 'mid-range'.

 

[ManofGod]

The cool thing is, RDNA is a highly scalable architecture both up and down the performance scale. I have an RX5700, which has FAR fewer CU's than a Vega 64 and yet is faster by no small measure than the Vega 64. Cool thing is, that makes it faster than the 1080, since the Vega 64 was also equal too or faster than the 1080, at stock speeds, at least. It is great to see Big Navi coming, as confirmed by the super CEO, Lisa Su, but just as her tactics have always been, she is not announcing until it is ready and not hyping the product at all. Got to say, the head of RTG seems to be working well with her, unlike previous years......

I was able to purchase an Open Box Sapphire RX5700 for $284 before tax and the 5% off Microcenter credit. Killer card, faster than my Vega 56 flashed with a 64 bios and most definitely worth every penny. I would not be surprised to find at least one version of Big Navi equaling the 2080ti, minus any RTX features, which will be a win for AMD / RTG and the consumer. They will release it when it is ready and that is all the matters.

 

[ManofGod]

I’d expect parity with nVidia, minus some kinda important features (RT) for a $700+ card as expensive as it will be, out of big Navi. Generally AMD is $100 over where they should be with their flagship for generations now. Given they don’t have RT maybe they’ll actually price it right, for the people that don’t care about RT at least.



1080 was nVidia’s best selling card for Pascal. Does that make the 1080 mid range?

Given I’d agree with you I consider $400-500 mid range.

Regardless of what Nvidia has chosen to price their cards at, the 5700 and 5700 XT is not lower mid range, that would be like the RX 580 and RX590, at least until the RX 5600 is released.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

The cool thing is, RDNA is a highly scalable architecture both up and down the performance scale.

So was GCN.

. I would not be surprised to find at least one version of Big Navi equaling the 2080ti, minus any RTX features, which will be a win for AMD / RTG and the consumer

It really isn't a win. AMD can't release anything faster than the 5700XT without DXR support and expect to not be panned. They'll have to sell quite a bit lower than a competing card, and that basically makes producing a faster DXR-less card mostly pointless for them.

They will release it when it is ready and that is all the matters.

So, late. Remember that their window is until Ampere ships. After that, well, given how little they've gotten out of 7nm, they're likely to relegated back to the low-end for a few more years.

 

[Dayaks]

Regardless of what Nvidia has chosen to price their cards at, the 5700 and 5700 XT is not lower mid range, that would be like the RX 580 and RX590, at least until the RX 5600 is released.

580/570 is low end to me for sure. To me there's low/mid/high/enthusiast. Like I said, I consider 5700/5700xt mid range. Breaking it down to "lower mid range" is a bit too specific to me... 5700xt is definitely not lower mid range anyways.

 

[ManofGod]

I will not be buying Big Navi becauise I already own what I can make use of now. Thankfully, the present CEO of AMD knows what she is doing and will do according to her plan and not others outside of AMD, which is actually working quite well for them. AMD is winning now with their RX 5700's for what they are, especially considering their budget and considering how quickly they are turning things around. Big Navi will be a win for them and will be out when it is ready, thankfully, and not when others dictate they should be. In fact, the 5700Xt can beat the Radeon VII, 2070 Super and 2080 in some games, that is a fact and that is what some consider a mid range card.

 

[ManofGod]

580/570 is low end to me for sure. To me there's low/mid/high/enthusiast.

Low to me would be the RX560 and RX550, at least for the time being. However, the RX560 4GB card is a really good card and will play 1080p60, with some reduced settings. Shame is that folks allowed Nvidia to warp their thinking on what a good price and level of a card is. Also, based upon your opinion, that would be that Intel will be leading out with a low end card, since it will be $200.

 

[Dayaks]

I will not be buying Big Navi becauise I already own what I can make use of now. Thankfully, the present CEO of AMD knows what she is doing and will do according to her plan and not others outside of AMD, which is actually working quite well for them. AMD is winning now with their RX 5700's for what they are, especially considering their budget and considering how quickly they are turning things around. Big Navi will be a win for them and will be out when it is ready, thankfully, and not when others dictate they should be. In fact, the 5700Xt can beat the Radeon VII, 2070 Super and 2080 in some games, that is a fact and that is what some consider a mid range card.

I think a lot of us have been saying if AMD was to strike fast enough with a non-RT card, the RTX overhead on nVidia (which is in it's infancy) could give AMD an advantage. I'm personally hesitant on spending high end/enthusiast kind of cash on a non-RT card though. For mid range I still find it acceptable at this point, but I wonder if others feel similar about a high end card missing that technology.

 

[noko]

I choose a card based on it own merits, not a dumb survey. Who really cares what Steam has?

This round Turing lost RNDA won, my conclusion for buying. Simple. Now Ampere could be a real winner which then I will buy if possible. If AMD comes out with big NAVI, priced good and creams NVidia offering, sign me up. I Care less what Steam numbers are, does not dictate or control what I will purchase.

Any real hints leaks on big Navi or is it still all conjecture?

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Thankfully, the present CEO of AMD knows what she is doing and will do according to her plan and not others outside of AMD, which is actually working quite well for them.

The hero-worship is unending...

What happens when Intel buries Ryzen and Nvidia buries Navi? Will that be Dr. Su's fault too? You know that's coming right?

AMD is winning now with their RX 5700's for what they are

Mostly not. One can get a better card with hardware DXR support for a few bucks more. The 5700 is honestly a hard sell; AMD needs a hypothetical 5600 stat.

Big Navi will be a win for them and will be out when it is ready, thankfully, and not when others dictate they should be.

This isn't a 'game'; people (other than The Faithful) aren't waiting for a good story or gameplay or characters. These are hardware products. AMD has a limited window before their margins are crushed, and they're not using it very well. If they'd wanted to take over the mid-range market, they'd have skipped straight to the topped-out cards with top-notch coolers and the fastest memory available.

They didn't.

They're starting to look like 3Dfx, doing their own thing on their own time. Remember what happened to them?

In fact, the 5700Xt can beat the Radeon VII, 2070 Super and 2080 in some games, that is a fact and that is what some consider a mid range card.

Some games. You want to pick and choose your benchmarks, you're going to have a bad time.

 

[Factum]

The devil is in the details:

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2077910/
“yes, 12 RDNA CU converts to 24 CU from the past generations in that regard”

 

[Ready4Dis]

You are saying Steam has an interest in scewing the numbers on a product they do not sell?

I'm saying I don't know their motives at this time. And even said most likely there is nothing going on. But, who knows, wouldn't be the first time something happened like that. They don't have an interest in it being that accurate either. I don't know if steam gets kick backs or has any deals or their algorithm for randomly selecting has (unintend Ed) bias in it. Like I said, I'm just a skeptical person but admit their is more than likely nothing going on.

 

[Ready4Dis]

The hero-worship is unending...

What happens when Intel buries Ryzen and Nvidia buries Navi? Will that be Dr. Su's fault too? You know that's coming right?



Mostly not. One can get a better card with hardware DXR support for a few bucks more. The 5700 is honestly a hard sell; AMD needs a hypothetical 5600 stat.



This isn't a 'game'; people (other than The Faithful) aren't waiting for a good story or gameplay or characters. These are hardware products. AMD has a limited window before their margins are crushed, and they're not using it very well. If they'd wanted to take over the mid-range market, they'd have skipped straight to the topped-out cards with top-notch coolers and the fastest memory available.

They didn't.

They're starting to look like 3Dfx, doing their own thing on their own time. Remember what happened to them?



Some games. You want to pick and choose your benchmarks, you're going to have a bad time.

While I agree she does get to much of the credit, the direction and focus of the company is highly reliant on management and the CEO. They are the head/face of th company for a reason and she got the engineers to focus on the products that she saw as the best direction (along with many others that helped make that decision). There was a lot of infighting at AMD and things were not going well. It got shaken up (not just Lisa Su, but others as well) and things have gone much better.
If Nvidia crushes rdna or Intel crushes ryzen as you said, I still believe AMD put out a solid product on limited resources against a much larger competitor and are on track to make money and more progrres. (Especially with higher prices in play).

 

[ManofGod]

While I agree she does get to much of the credit, the direction and focus of the company is highly reliant on management and the CEO. They are the head/face of th company for a reason and she got the engineers to focus on the products that she saw as the best direction (along with many others that helped make that decision). There was a lot of infighting at AMD and things were not going well. It got shaken up (not just Lisa Su, but others as well) and things have gone much better.
If Nvidia crushes rdna or Intel crushes ryzen as you said, I still believe AMD put out a solid product on limited resources against a much larger competitor and are on track to make money and more progrres. (Especially with higher prices in play).

I do not believe she gets to much of the credit, at all. She is an engineer herself and helped significantly to bring AMD back around to their now successful position. We keep hearing how Intel or Nvidia will crush them but, money and size alone does not make for a better product, as AMD has clearly demonstrated. I can imagine that working for her would be completely non toxic and despite what some may not understand, a good work environment is key to happy workers, building their confidence and producing good work and a good product.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

I do not believe she gets to much of the credit,

Dude, you got a prayer rug in front of her poster in your living room by the way you talk in the forums, and you have a Raja voodoo doll in the corner, lol.

We keep hearing how Intel or Nvidia will crush them but, money and size alone does not make for a better product, as AMD has clearly demonstrated.

AMD has demonstrated that they can survive... and not much else. Oh, and a large part of that is that Intel would be broken up by regulators if they snuffed AMD out of the market.

 

[Factum]

Dude, you got a prayer rug in front of her poster in your living room by the way you talk in the forums, and you have a Raja voodoo doll in the corner, lol.

He is the man of superstion after all

 

[ManofGod]

He is the man of superstion after all

What, the benchmark?

 

[ChadD]

The hero-worship is unending...

What happens when Intel buries Ryzen and Nvidia buries Navi? Will that be Dr. Su's fault too? You know that's coming right?

Amprere is more then likely not going to be the part people think it is. NV is going to hit the same issues with 7 and Intel 10 nm. They will have to choose to pack things tight and give up clock speed or not go crazy on transistors and get clock speed. AMD did both this time out... they packed Ryzen chiplets and gave up clock, they didn't up the transistor count on small navi and still got some decent clock. Ampere is likely going to be the first mid range first part from NV in a long while. I am not sure we should even be expecting it to dethrone 2080ti. As for Intel, well I'm not expecting much from XE a part Intel is already claiming is going to target the mid range over a year out. And on the CPU side their 10nm even the "fixed" version is still terribly flawed and their 7nm move is a year out. (If they plan to ship parts first quarter 2021 they will be producing samples in less then a year) If Intel fails to execute there they are in trouble.

As for Dr. Sue yes she is a rockstar. Of all the current consumer chip making CEOs she may be the only one actually qualified to be there. When it comes to planning future tech moves and perhaps most importantly future Fabrication moves... there is frankly NO one more qualified then her. Before AMD she wrote the paper on copper interconnects... not only did she actually write the research paper on how copper could be used, she was actually hired by IBM to make it work. Which she did and we got copper infused goodness. The Cell was her brain child. (She lead the IBM research team that designed it) It was a bit to far ahead of its time... in a lot of ways though Ryzen is its spiritual successor. She has come along way from her first job after finishing her doctorate DrSplaining tech to IBMs then CEO Louis Gerstner who was hired from Amex.

Perhaps mid next year both NV and Intel will push a lot harder vs Ryzen and 5700... hopefully for us they do. I am quite sure she and AMD are planning for that.

 

[OutOfPhase]

Do you feel like the 7nm processes used in the various fabs will not have made progress in this time interval? I deeply suspect they have, and this is also why some companies choose to wait for a more mature process. It is not immediately obvious to me that NV would face the same issues AMD had for the inaugural launches. Intel's issues are a totally different animal.

As for Dr. Su.. she is the best CEO AMD has had in a long time for sure. She is proving to be much better at steering the ship than predecessors, and as I've said in other threads - identifying BS and bad plans earlier in the cycle is a Big Deal for CEOs.
But of course, she can still only work with what the engineering team actually produces. This is where the rubber hits the road. AMD is producing decent mid-range stuff - no argument (But come on, dented blowers? Arg.), but are still unable to scale upward effectively, in spite of claims to the contrary. If they could, they would - the profit at the high end is disproportionately huge. They ABSOLUTELY would love to have the dog in the high-end hunt, if for no other reason than to poke a hole in NVidia's profit balloon.
She's a good CEO, but is not Willy Wonka or the Wizard of Oz. She's one piece of the puzzle. While this is admittedly the view of a grunt engineer, CEOs are at their best when they simply do not impede the engineering team. She doesn't from what I've seen - which is great. But now, engineering team, let's see the chops. A great midrange chip is nice. Without any competition above that though, it's going to be rough.

I hope this doesn't come across as anti-AMD. It really isn't. I want them to succeed and make something I buy on Day 1 because it is awesome. It is however, on them to do that.

Edit: did not intend Willy Wonka analogy to be desparaging, for clarity. Was intended to indicate a lack of magic.

 

[ManofGod]

Do you feel like the 7nm processes used in the various fabs will not have made progress in this time interval? I deeply suspect they have, and this is also why some companies choose to wait for a more mature process. It is not immediately obvious to me that NV would face the same issues AMD had for the inaugural launches. Intel's issues are a totally different animal.

As for Dr. Su.. she is the best CEO AMD has had in a long time for sure. She is proving to be much better at steering the ship than predecessors, and as I've said in other threads - identifying BS and bad plans earlier in the cycle is a Big Deal for CEOs.
But of course, she can still only work with what the engineering team actually produces. This is where the rubber hits the road. AMD is producing decent mid-range stuff - no argument (But come on, dented blowers? Arg.), but are still unable to scale upward effectively, in spite of claims to the contrary. If they could, they would - the profit at the high end is disproportionately huge. They ABSOLUTELY would love to have the dog in the high-end hunt, if for no other reason than to poke a hole in NVidia's profit balloon.
She's a good CEO, but is not Willy Wonka or the Wizard of Oz. She's one piece of the puzzle. While this is admittedly the view of a grunt engineer, CEOs are at their best when they simply do not impede the engineering team. She doesn't from what I've seen - which is great. But now, engineering team, let's see the chops. A great midrange chip is nice. Without any competition above that though, it's going to be rough.

I hope this doesn't come across as anti-AMD. It really isn't. I want them to succeed and make something I buy on Day 1 because it is awesome. It is however, on them to do that.

The fact is, they have only recently started to recover so the idea that if they could release a high end part, they simply would do it is misguided at best. They have only been recovering for about 2.5 years now and that was mostly on the CPU side of things. Their recovery on the GPU side of things has not been occurring as long and as such, is going to be taking longer. They are most likely not going to have any issues scaling upwards but, it is not going to happen overnight nor was going for the top end first even a good idea. The claims to the contrary are for a future product, how have you determined that they are unable to scale upwardly just because they have not squirted out card after card in a very short time?

As for Lisa Su, she has a direct influence on who is hired and who is not and what direction the company goes in. She may only be one person but as for AMD now and their near future, she is the single most important person in the stack.

 

[ChadD]

Do you feel like the 7nm processes used in the various fabs will not have made progress in this time interval? I deeply suspect they have, and this is also why some companies choose to wait for a more mature process. It is not immediately obvious to me that NV would face the same issues AMD had for the inaugural launches. Intel's issues are a totally different animal.

As for Dr. Su.. she is the best CEO AMD has had in a long time for sure. She is proving to be much better at steering the ship than predecessors, and as I've said in other threads - identifying BS and bad plans earlier in the cycle is a Big Deal for CEOs.
But of course, she can still only work with what the engineering team actually produces. This is where the rubber hits the road. AMD is producing decent mid-range stuff - no argument (But come on, dented blowers? Arg.), but are still unable to scale upward effectively, in spite of claims to the contrary. If they could, they would - the profit at the high end is disproportionately huge. They ABSOLUTELY would love to have the dog in the high-end hunt, if for no other reason than to poke a hole in NVidia's profit balloon.
She's a good CEO, but is not Willy Wonka or the Wizard of Oz. She's one piece of the puzzle. While this is admittedly the view of a grunt engineer, CEOs are at their best when they simply do not impede the engineering team. She doesn't from what I've seen - which is great. But now, engineering team, let's see the chops. A great midrange chip is nice. Without any competition above that though, it's going to be rough.

I hope this doesn't come across as anti-AMD. It really isn't. I want them to succeed and make something I buy on Day 1 because it is awesome. It is however, on them to do that.

Nvidia is going with Samsung 7nm. So ya they are going to run into all the same issues. Not only is it 7nm Samsungs process is unique to them. It could go extremely well, or they could run into completely new and unique to samsung issues as well. Below 12nm it seems everyone is running into physics. You can pack more transistors in but you can't run transistors packed that close at insane clocks there is just to much bleed... damn physics. If you don't try and up the transistor count you can however crank the clocks. Intel and NV are going to run into the same issues. If they choose to pack the chips tight and try and squeeze 16-20 billion transistors into ampere packing in the tensor cores ect... I don't imagine they will get crazy high clocks. If they pack it loose as AMD did with navi they will have to drop some features. I expect ampere is NOT going to have tensor cores.. which means no RTX, unless they are planning some type of chiplet option to add that in at least on the high end. Intel is already stated their 7nm will be chiplet parts. It seems the most logical solution to try and get the best of both worlds. Seeing what both do is going to be super interesting... and exciting. Great time to be a chip nerd. lol

Your right Dr. Sue isn't willy wonka... she understands how the candy is made. The biggest advantage she has is as you say being able to see the issues in plans... because she actually understand what is going on. She is the only CEO right now that is over qualified for every engineering job under her. Her skill set is basically opposite to most companies CEOs. Its probably the marketing/sales/general operation stuff that she leans on others for. Where most CEOs come up via the marketing/sales side of things she is a pure engineer. Considering where AMD was failing I think that is why she is a great fit. Not only can she call BS early... she with out a doubt can recognize which engineers on team AMD are actually worth their salt and which are a waste of space. How can a bean counter CEO like Intel Swan make decisions about head engineers on projects for product 3 and 4 years away when every little detail needs to be explained to him. We'll see what happens with Intels 7nm plans... but I don't know I fear they may still be going way to far design wise. As cool as 3D chiplet stacking sounds.... with nanometer scale interconnects on the chiplets, that sounds to me like it will be temperamental as hell on high end parts. (like I said interesting times, the 2020 tech document releases and engineering sample leaks are going to be fun)

 

[IdiotInCharge]

The fact is, they have only recently started to recover so the idea that if they could release a high end part, they simply would do it is misguided at best.

Man, the apologies. You gonna wear that prayer rug out.

There's no technical reason that AMD couldn't put Navi into the same die size as Vega on 7nm and bolt on a wider GDDRN bus. Same for Polaris.

They just didn't. Make your excuses, but AMD is outright choosing to not compete. As much as I would like to see them bring the heat to the high-end with overbearing performance in an efficient package with competitive hardware DXR, modern transcoding support, and attractive pricing, the evidence leans very much toward them being incapable of executing such a release.

 

[ManofGod]

Have anything to actually refute what I am saying because, so far, I have not seen you say anything that makes sense about my point. Oh well, something about when a person has nothing left to counter, personal attacks.........

 

[Gamer X]

I don't trust steam survey cause I have seen surveys pop up for me.... and it goes like this.

I spend the week at one place and weekends at another. All week when I'm on my main LInux AMD box I never see a survey. On the weekends I am sometimes on a machine with Linux and NV... I have seen a survey pop up on that one a couple times the last year. I do very very occasionally play on a very old windows box of my wives that has both NV in it and windows. That machine gets a survey pop up damn near monthly. lol

Don't trust the survey at all.... it might be interesting, but highly suspect imo.

That is the problem.

Why Gabe needs to redo the whole thing. Most people don't game at 720p who have purchasing power and what is mainstream, those or over-propagated numbers. Every has a laptop, but that isn't their main gaming rig, etc.

When I retire an older game rig, Steam Survey does remove it's stats from the active gaming resource. Part of Gabe marketing, is getting paid to market numbers. Laptop buyers don't buy, or upgrade their GPU, etc.. false markets.



That is why Navi and RDNA is so damn important to the industry..

Because all the Console games in the future will be based on the same RDNA principals and cross carry between the Console & PC game space.

A $349 RDNA card that can handle 50% of the mainstream's needs..? With two more Radeon RDNA Series incoming, the lower tier $149+ and upper tier $550+ cards. These Radeon GPU are going to rock the Gaming world for the next 13 months until Nvidia can release their next GPU.


A such, many PC Gamers are taking the opportunity that Zen 2 created and are building new rigs, or getting ready to upgrade their systems & GPUs... and Monitors. If most are at 720p, then Navi has them covered, and if at 1080p, then Navi has them covered, and if they are moving into 1440p then Navi has them covered. And if they are moving into 4k, then big-navi will have them covered.

RDNA for all....

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Have anything to actually refute what I am saying because

You're saying 'AMD will do well and conquer the world because Lisa Su is God'.

I can only point that out.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

because all the Console games in the future will be based on the same RDNA principals and cross carry between the Console & PC game space.

Worked out good for AMD markeshare with the current gen consoles, didn't it?

No?

A $349 RDNA card that can handle 50% of the mainstream's needs..? With two more Radeon RDNA Series incoming, the lower tier $149+ and upper tier $550+ cards. These Radeon GPU are going to rock the Gaming world for the next 13 months until Nvidia can release their next GPU.

Nvidia can drop their price US$50. Game over.

A such, many PC Gamers are taking the opportunity that Zen 2 created and are building new rigs, or getting ready to upgrade their systems & GPUs

CPU and GPU are independent.

f most are at 720p, then Navi has them covered, and if at 1080p, then Navi has them covered, and if they are moving into 1440p then Navi has them covered. And if they are moving into 4k, then big-navi will have them covered.

Covered with hotter and louder parts? Absolutely!

Poor release driver support? Fine wine!

No hardware ray-tracing? Lol.

Sure, Navi has the market covered.

 

[Gamer X]

Worked out good for AMD markeshare with the current gen consoles, didn't it?

No?
Nvidia can drop their price US$50. Game over.
CPU and GPU are independent.
Covered with hotter and louder parts? Absolutely!
Poor release driver support? Fine wine!
No hardware ray-tracing? Lol.
Sure, Navi has the market covered.

Again, you are trying to look into the past. Which means you can not deal with TODAY's reality. Microsoft & SONY re-invested into their portfolios when they realized what RDNA was about & could do (Scale to the end-user in their house). Both walked out on stage and promoted RDNA new architecture as the reason for their renewed excitinment and accelerated release of the next-gen consoles.


Again, you are just yammering and talking BS. Nvidia can't lower their prices... they are as low as they can go. Secondly, Jensen KNOWS that AMD (Dr Lisa Su) has the upper hand with capacity, yield and cost. As such, with economy of scale AMD can go much lower on their 5700 Series. Matter of fact, when the AIB start to land, you will see AMD blowers go on sale.

And again... you are living in the dark. 500 Million+ Gamers will be on RDNA in One Years time. That is a Wall Street and Market Call estimate. And why Dr Lisa Su had that banner behind Her during her Key note speech.

And again... it doesn't matter if every game next year is released with ray tracing, the current RTX won't get any faster, or better at it. That is why "RTX On" is a flop. Mind you, technically Navo10 can do ray tracing, just even slower than RTX so there is no point in ever enabling it.

I'll repeat it again... the RTX2080 SUPER is not going to get faster in ray tracing, it's ray tracing will always remain broken. As such, it will take an entirely new Nvidia card (coming in 13 months) that has REAL working ray-tracing, before it will matter to People in games. RTX On is a massive flop... that is why they still sell GTX cards bro.



I am starting to think you are just a bot account, replying to anything Anyone has to say.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Again, you are trying to look into the past. Which means you can not deal with TODAY's reality. Microsoft & SONY re-invested into their portfolios when they realized what RDNA was about & could do (Scale to the end-user in their house). Both walked out on stage and promoted RDNA new architecture as the reason for their renewed excitinment and accelerated release of the next-gen consoles.

Like they did with the last generation? Sorry, RDNA is a buzzword. It has no meaning except 'what's after GCN'. It's not like it's any faster.

Again, you are just yammering and talking BS. Nvidia can't lower their prices... they are as low as they can go.

Talking about BS and... citations

And again... it doesn't matter if every game next year is released with ray tracing, the current RTX won't get any faster, or better at it. That is why "RTX On" is a flop. Mind you, technically Navo10 can do ray tracing, just even slower than RTX so there is no point in ever enabling it.

The hardware won't get physically faster- lol- but games are being optimized for it. And not for RDNA, because well, no DXR support.

it's ray tracing will always remain broken

I am starting to think you are just a bot account, replying to anything Anyone has to say.

Bot, meet mirror.

 

[Gamer X]

Like they did with the last generation? Sorry, RDNA is a buzzword. It has no meaning except 'what's after GCN'. It's not like it's any faster.
Talking about BS and... citations
The hardware won't get physically faster- lol- but games are being optimized for it. And not for RDNA, because well, no DXR support.

Bot, meet mirror.

Nope, I've just scanned your posts, you are a life-long forum bot, here to keep things moving along.

My previous post nailed your response. You are to bot'ish to have any real knowledge of this discussion and are just trying to thread-crap to keep things off the talking points you do not like. But the problem is, I like to stay on topic and you are unable to. You keep talking about the past, and it's laughable the crutch you keep going back to... find something new to write on your sweatshop chalk board.



Yes, Nvidia is having a hard time with yields for the TU-104 SUPER's etc.. those prices have gone up. Why does reality keep needing a citation for you. You purposely full of dERP?

 

[IdiotInCharge]

You are to bot'ish to have any real knowledge of this discussion

I'm going to take not proclaiming RDNA to be the Second Coming and Dr. Su its Prophet as a compliment.

But the problem is, I like to stay on topic and you are unable to.

You keep talking about the past, and it's laughable the crutch you keep going back to

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. In your case, it will be eating your own words .

Yes, Nvidia is having a hard time with yields for the TU-104 SUPER's etc..

CITATION


Keep the zingers coming!

 

[Ready4Dis]

It's fun to watch sometimes, because neither is providing any sources, just rambling what they think or hope. One thing is for sure.. both AMD and NVidia are working on their next cards and we'll have to wait until they come out to see how they compare.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

It's fun to watch sometimes, because neither is providing any sources, just rambling what they think or hope. One thing is for sure.. both AMD and NVidia are working on their next cards and we'll have to wait until they come out to see how they compare.

We have AMD saying that Big Navi 'is coming', which, well duh.

Nvidia has been discussing Ampere for over a year?

Neither have released solid indications of relative performance or what the upgrades entail, so aside from the obvious conclusion that these companies are working on future products (lol), we're speculating.

At least, that's what I'm doing- I know better than to claim specifics without references .

 

[Gamer X]

It's fun to watch sometimes, because neither is providing any sources, just rambling what they think or hope. One thing is for sure.. both AMD and NVidia are working on their next cards and we'll have to wait until they come out to see how they compare.

Hunh..?
We already know what is coming, based on what came last month. Everyone knows a bigger version of little-navi10 is coming, and based on science and math we can extrapolate what big-navi will do.

Hoping... does no good, you have to work within reality. Dr Su gave us a taste of it, we want more.