Big Navi is coming

NKD

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Tweaktown gave some expert, in-depth analysis (sarcasm) saying big Navi will get destroyed by the 3080 because 'less tflops".

Just wanted to throw that out there for thise saying it is just youtube that is destroying the quality of tech journalism.

Tweaktown is worst then wccftech now. They can't stick to one thing. That post is so ignorant it boggles my mind and how one on a tech website can even say that. Hasn't it already been beaten down like a dead horse that 3080 Tflops in gaming are not the same as 2080ti? 30% more peformance for 2x the tflops, its just more compute oriented. While RDNA seems to be neck to neck with Turing in flops? so 22.5 Tflops of RDNA that is geared more towards gaming can certainly be faster then 3080. Probably lag behind in compute but don't really care about that for a gaming card.
 

MangoSeed

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Tweaktown is worst then wccftech now. They can't stick to one thing. That post is so ignorant it boggles my mind and how one on a tech website can even say that. Hasn't it already been beaten down like a dead horse that 3080 Tflops in gaming are not the same as 2080ti? 30% more peformance for 2x the tflops, its just more compute oriented. While RDNA seems to be neck to neck with Turing in flops? so 22.5 Tflops of RDNA that is geared more towards gaming can certainly be faster then 3080. Probably lag behind in compute but don't really care about that for a gaming card.

Ampere will run out of other things (bandwidth, fillrate, triangle throughput) long before it runs out of flops. AMD doesn’t need to match paper flops as long as they hit the other numbers.

The 3080 has 110% more flops but only 23% more bandwidth than the 2080 Ti.
 

NKD

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Ampere will run out of other things (bandwidth, fillrate, triangle throughput) long before it runs out of flops. AMD doesn’t need to match paper flops as long as they hit the other numbers.

The 3080 has 110% more flops but only 23% more bandwidth than the 2080 Ti.

yep. Still since I am not a fanboy 3080 is a great card for the price. But recent reports just turned me off a little and given I have to wait a month now I might as well just wait. I am just looking for something good for the price. If AMD releases something competitive with 16GB of ram at 599.99 or even 650 i wouldn't mind picking one up for having more vram alone since I don't really care about DLSS or ray tracing just yet. DLSS given closed source is hit and miss and cant be guaranteed for every game. Also I am an open source guy so gave me raw performance for good price I am good. But still might pick up 3080 if it disappoints in performance. By then there should be good supply.
 

Repo79

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I will be looking at big navi as a possible buy it meets or exceeds the 3080 card. I mainly game and stream so no need for me to look at a 3090, I want one but have no need for it.
 

KickAssCop

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What is the driver situation on the AMD side these days. Haven't had a card from them I think since 7970 or some such.
 

exlink

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What is the driver situation on the AMD side these days. Haven't had a card from them I think since 7970 or some such.
I haven’t had an AMD card since my R9 390 approximately 4-5 years ago. The drivers were decent then but still had noticeably more minor annoying bugs than I’ve experienced with Nvidia drivers (not to say those are flawless either). But that was years ago.

More recently it’s a mixed bag from what I’ve seen. I’d say most users indicate no big issues while a smaller group of users experience enough issues to push them to Nvidia. The black screen bug was a notable issue this generation that still appears to exist in some form but to a much lesser degree. My coworker is one person that still experiences it months after purchasing his 5700XT.

If the performance is there at a good price I’d be willing to give AMD another shot again.
 

blackmomba

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Drivers will be shit no matter if they're shit or not.

The community just repeats it ad nauseum

For me, the driver was perfect from dual 4890s all the way to the 580s, instability was present with Vega late into the cycle so I switched
 

KickAssCop

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I don't think everyone is that negative about AMD. My problem when I used their cards is that you would be sitting on day 1 of game release and be like wtf where is that driver. Then 1-3 months later you will get lucky. Unlike nV which releases driver prior to even game releases. Yes, they have sometimes misfires but usually it is only a hotfix away or some such. That is why I am willing to sacrifice even 10% performance from an AMD card to get nV specific features and ability to play games day 1.

Again my reference point is old af so hence, the question if with newer cards like 5700XT was this ever an issue etc.
 

DarkSideA8

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Is there any reason Navi would not be competitive in rasterization? I'll presume Nvidia is going to be tops in ray tracing - which is still a 'nice to have' rather than a key feature. But if Navi gets performance in line with the 3080 at a similar price and has the supply... Any good will Nvidia has made with the great numbers they've shown might just evaporate given the supply fiasco
 

bl4d3runn3r

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Is there any reason Navi would not be competitive in rasterization? I'll presume Nvidia is going to be tops in ray tracing - which is still a 'nice to have' rather than a key feature. But if Navi gets performance in line with the 3080 at a similar price and has the supply... Any good will Nvidia has made with the great numbers they've shown might just evaporate given the supply fiasco
I think it will come close to the 3080. But only time will tell. If AMD can deliver cards, which I doubt, they can outsell Nvidia, because they have almost no cards available. I guess the Ryzen 5000 launch will be a good indicator of availability.
 

LukeTbk

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Is there any reason Navi would not be competitive in rasterization? I'll presume Nvidia is going to be tops in ray tracing - which is still a 'nice to have' rather than a key feature. But if Navi gets performance in line with the 3080 at a similar price and has the supply

I imagine it is really possible in 1080-1440p, but in 4K I think the main reason is precedent.

Looking at Rtx 3080 vs 5700xt in 4K without ray tracing, the difference of performance seem to be around 100%, if we say that big navi need to be 1.75-1.8 a 5700xt to be competitive,
when was the last time a video card made a 75%-80% jump in performance like that in one generation?

5700xt 4K performance look quite similar to a 1080Ti sometime a bit lower, it would be like skipping a generation, that could be possible considering one company seem focusing a lot on not just gaming ability of their card and uniting the pro-gamer card together, but would be really impressive.
 

NightReaver

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I imagine it is really possible in 1080-1440p, but in 4K I think the main reason is precedent.

Looking at Rtx 3080 vs 5700xt in 4K without ray tracing, the difference of performance seem to be around 100%, if we say that big navi need to be 1.75-1.8 a 5700xt to be competitive,
when was the last time a video card made a 75%-80% jump in performance like that in one generation?

5700xt 4K performance look quite similar to a 1080Ti sometime a bit lower, it would be like skipping a generation, that could be possible considering one company seem focusing a lot on not just gaming ability of their card and uniting the pro-gamer card together, but would be really impressive.
But the 5700XT was never a full scale card. So a major jump like that is very possible if AMD releases a full card this time around. It's not a direct generation to generation leap.
 

LukeTbk

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But the 5700XT was never a full scale card. So a major jump like that is very possible if AMD releases a full card this time around. It's not a direct generation to generation leap.

If the highest model is in a significant different price/watt range a lot of the road is made just by that it is true (if the 50% by watt increase claim are true, combining those 2 would make that 80% jump to be close enough to be competitive), I imagine it is possible, but considering the 5000 series was a summer 2019 launch that would be incredibly impressive.
 

Wag

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We can hope this will preform better than my 2080Ti but I have my doubts.
 

exlink

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We can hope this will preform better than my 2080Ti but I have my doubts.
I have little doubt that Big Navi will have any trouble surpassing a 2080 Ti. Not sure if it’ll hit 3080 levels, but I think it’ll surpass a 2080 Ti by 10-15% at least.
 

exlink

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10-15% puts it within 5-10% of a 3080 ;p
Oh I’m well aware. When I mean 3080 performance I mean within a couple percent average. Even if it comes in at 10% below a 3080 but with 16GB of VRAM and a slightly lower price then AMD has a potent card on their hands. If it somehow matches or surpasses 3080 performance then Nvidia needs to really begin to worry.
 

drutman

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For me to upgrade from my 390X to Navi it will depend solely on RT and DLSS (AMD's version) performance. At 2K 144 Hz I am okay with my five year old card's fps. I use a mix of high and ultra to get above 75 fps currently. Funny thing is I am in the EVGA ordering queue for a 3080, I figure by December I will know which vendor to go with. My gut says NVIDIA.
 

Wag

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I have little doubt that Big Navi will have any trouble surpassing a 2080 Ti. Not sure if it’ll hit 3080 levels, but I think it’ll surpass a 2080 Ti by 10-15% at least.
So for 10-15% why would I even bother? We're talking about 4k/60Hz I presume?
 

Ready4Dis

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I imagine it is really possible in 1080-1440p, but in 4K I think the main reason is precedent.

Looking at Rtx 3080 vs 5700xt in 4K without ray tracing, the difference of performance seem to be around 100%, if we say that big navi need to be 1.75-1.8 a 5700xt to be competitive,
when was the last time a video card made a 75%-80% jump in performance like that in one generation?

5700xt 4K performance look quite similar to a 1080Ti sometime a bit lower, it would be like skipping a generation, that could be possible considering one company seem focusing a lot on not just gaming ability of their card and uniting the pro-gamer card together, but would be really impressive.
They are going from 40CU's to 80CU's... I'm not sure why a 2x performance increase sounds outlandish. The 5700xt was a mid range card and was never meant to compete at the high end, so it's a very bad comparison. It'd be like saying a 2070 wasn't that fast, so why would a 3090 be fast? Because a 3090 is not the same level of card, it's just nvidia DID have a high end card to point at for comparison. AMD does not, so saying it's a generational leap isn't exactly true unless you are comparing something like a 6700xt to the 5700xt and not the 6900xt to the 5700xt. There have been plenty of examples where doubling the CU's has made a large difference ;). Heck, Vega VII still outruns the 5700xt, and it was a generation older (and much higher price range and was their full card). So the real question is, can they get a ~75% increase in performance over a 2 generation old card? Well, it had 64 "cu's", but we also know that RDNA has better IPC than Vega and RDNA 2 will have 80 CU's, so it will have a 25% CU advantage, which leaves about 50% increase in performance over 2 generations. This is very plausible. 5700XT is only 40 CU's, so if we have an 80CU GPU, even with no other increases in performance, we should see it come close to 100% if it's not completely starved of memory bandwidth.
 

exlink

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So for 10-15% why would I even bother? We're talking about 4k/60Hz I presume?
Bother with what? It’ll be a sensible upgrade for anyone with a 5700XT/1080 Ti or lower especially if it comes in at $600 or less.
 

Ready4Dis

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So for 10-15% why would I even bother? We're talking about 4k/60Hz I presume?
I don't know, if you had a 2080ti, I presume you wouldn't bother. But, you could ask the folks buying 3090's why they are bothering to pay 2x cost for 10% performance. Also, not everyone is on a 2080ti, so 10% to you could easily be 50-100+% for someone on a slower/older card ;). I'm still hoping it's a bit more than 15% of a 2080ti, but as long as it's priced right, it'll sell fine to those in the market. My best guess is they'll have 2 cards > 2080ti this cycle, and another one very close to it... just my optimism though, nothing to back it up.
 

Digital Viper-X-

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AMD said they will have plenty of stock at launch... The question is, when is the launch? is Oct 28th the launch or something else?
 

travm

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I don't think everyone is that negative about AMD. My problem when I used their cards is that you would be sitting on day 1 of game release and be like wtf where is that driver. Then 1-3 months later you will get lucky. Unlike nV which releases driver prior to even game releases. Yes, they have sometimes misfires but usually it is only a hotfix away or some such. That is why I am willing to sacrifice even 10% performance from an AMD card to get nV specific features and ability to play games day 1.

Again my reference point is old af so hence, the question if with newer cards like 5700XT was this ever an issue etc.
Maybe it's just me, but I just download games and play them. Game Day drivers are only needed if the previous driver is not working.
 

Forsaken1

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After a clock revision.

A4C25B63-5B22-4561-B8C0-CF42073E435E.png
 

travm

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Game Day drivers usually give you better performance. Can never complain about more performance from day 1.
This is true, but if the performance is already there. I only download drivers for games if something is broken. Generally performance is always where I expect it. I haven't had an Nvidia card in 15 years though.
 
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