Big Government Wants a Black Box in YOUR Car

Chimel

Gawd
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Jul 19, 2010
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For f*** sake read the bill. This is the Event Data Recorder it refers to: http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/49CFR563.pdf
The requirement is to record at most 5 seconds of data before the crash, not your whole driving at all times. It's only for crash investigations.
And the 5 seconds are only for some parameters, like speed or engine RPM. Most of the other data is recorded only for milliseconds or a second.

They make provisions to add more parameters to record 2 years after the bill is in effect if they can prove it would benefit crash investigations and safety.
In any case, the bill is much more conservative than what you already have in most Ford and GM cars, which record longer times.
 

theDreamer

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A heads up for some of you worried about this in 2015, many car manufactures already have black boxes which follow more data than this when you drive. Many do just an accident report and usually involves the last 30 seconds, but many cars already have these and more but the keys to access the data is controlled by the car manufacture currently.
 

kjeldoran

Gawd
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Jan 17, 2010
Messages
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Don't worry in 2020 black box will ticket you automatically without cop :D

John Spartan, you are fined five credits for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.

If this is just for accidents, I do not see a problem as it provide information that can help a case. However, the box must have limits of power so it is not abused.
 

Modred189

Can't Read the OP
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"Good morning Mr. Dallas. You have 4 points left on your license..."
 

Modred189

Can't Read the OP
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3.jpg

(sry, no edit)
 

avatardelta

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John Spartan, you are fined five credits for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.

If this is just for accidents, I do not see a problem as it provide information that can help a case. However, the box must have limits of power so it is not abused.

Yuk yuk yuk.


The seashells are coming! Hold on to your sphincters!
 

stiltner

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Doublethink


Just sayin


Since I telework now I wonder if I can move to Australia and still work. All this shit is so out of control and against just natural human desire for freedom it annoys me.

Its OBD II + 1000%. Back when OBD II was released everyone panicked it was going to do exactly what this object wants to, the provision that would have made it possible them, got tossed out, everyone was happy ducks in a row, and OBD II went forward w/o that.

INCREMENTALISM, Government's attempts to subdue your freedoms, one small step at a time, in the hopes that you never notice as your oxygen supply is slowly cut off from you.
 

beowulf7

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*sigh* Yeah the "Dumbocrats" pass another Big Bro bill... lets see who cosponsored the bill...
Sen. Max Baucus [D-MT]
Sen. James “Jim” Inhofe [R-OK]
Sen. David Vitter [R-LA]

Oh wait... what do those R's mean after their name?

And lets see the actual voting on the measure
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/s48

Hmmm only 22 nay votes, Well shit I didn't realize there were only 22 Republitards in the Senate.

Seriously, drop the pretenses that democrats are bad and republicans are good, or liberals are bad and teaparty for our freedoms (or vice versa), the sooner people realize that politicians as they are today are universally all bad the better off you'll be, the better off we'll be because we'll maybe stop bickering about petty "Dumbocrat" arguments and the like.

Every single Dem. voted for Big Bro but only half of the Rep. voted for it. (And those 2 Reps. are just as bad as the Dems., agreed.)
 

Devilpup

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
2,047
The best part is that by mandating it for all new cars, that's one extra thing we'll have to pay for when buying a car :D

oh wait...
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
726
If you don't like the laws, either get them changed or move somewhere else.
Same retarded answer the sheep always give. Well...enough conversation with you.

Move? Eat....
Oh yeah, I can change the fucking law too!
Very Informative!


Guess a lot of people are forgetting the slippery slope/get your foot int the door rationale.
 

Red Squirrel

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So glad I don't live in the states. The government is turning more and more into a bunch of control freak power hungry phsycopaths. They've always been, but now it just seems to be increasing more and more. It's just getting way out of hand. Given they are so powerful there's nothing nobody can do about it. In fact they'll start imposing all this crap on the rest of the world. They not only want to control their own people but they want to control the world.

Chances are they'll have some anti tamper mechanism so if you try to disable it, you will probably go to jail for life or something crazy like that. They will probably send signals to the government at given intervals, each signal will be unique to the vehicle's serial # so if a signal stops being received they track down the owner to find out why. I can see it happen.

Guess the only way to fight it is to not have a car. I can see a rise in popularity for mopeds. Though the government will just follow suit and require black boxes in ANY vehicle, even non motorized. Then people will just roller blade to work. At which point the government will say "screw it" and just require GPS/ID devices implanted at birth. You wont be able to buy anything or go anywhere without this implant.

At one point all this was science fiction, but we are not far from that era.
 

Modred189

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The picture was totally unnecessary, I recognized the quote, it's about the guy who is married to Multipass, right?

What kind of name is Modred, are, are, are you German?
Correct... kinda.

And finny story... WAY back in the day, when I was an AOL member, I had just read T.H. White's "The Once and Future King." Mordred was Arthur's half brother via Morgan le Fey who ended up killing him with Excalibur.

I spelled it wrong and stuck with it.:eek:
 

yojimbo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
218
Here's exactly what I did over the last 20 minutes:

*Reads article*

"Um, okay, I should probably read the actual bill proposal."

*Reads bill proposal*

"...Wait, what?"

*Reads article, again*

"I have no f%$#ing clue where they got that conclusion from."

The author misread the bill proposal, took it to an illogical extreme (and completely disregarded parts of the bill that effectively defang his argument, like the part that says, "Unless asked for by a court justice in a legal proceeding, the data collected by the recording device belongs to the owner of the vehicle") and then spent the second half of the article on a rambling conspiracy jaunt in the same vein (even the part about revoking passports makes sense in the proper context - if I owed someone $50k, I'd sure as hell try leaving the country... but I can't if I don't have a passport).

But, hey, InfoWars is the property of Alex Jones, self-described libertarian paleoconservative, so effectively anything that doesn't protect property rights, encourage decentralization, or keep our country firmly rooted in the late 1700's (despite the fact paleoconservatism espouses exactly the opposite idealism of our country's foundation, and is in fact a form of neo-liberalism) is essentially 'big government'.

Or, in short: Way to over-react, folks.
 

Red Squirrel

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We all know the government never tells us the whole story. The rules in the bill are just to make people feel safer. Look at freedom of speech? Yeah, that does not really exist anymore. It's just in the charter of rights to make people feel better. The government is too powerful and too selfish and will do things that pleases them at the expense of others even if some piece of paper says they can't do it. They just laugh at it.

The fact that those blackboxes will be there and accessible by the government opens the doors for the rest.
 

Serpent

2[H]4U
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Indeed.


If it's only the owner of the car's property.... then why have it required? Oh, I know, it's to stimulate the economy, no doubt this thing will will create jobs for the people building it, etc. (Yes, there seems to be some slight paranoia in there, but with US as it is, it'd be weird if you didn't have it)

Government has shown that they don't really care for the things that stops them. And goes ahead and do them anyway.
 

clarkkent57

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
467
"If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet."
 

Lebowski

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Sep 12, 2000
Messages
3,603
I was wondering that as well. Simply storing accident data seems like it would be very useful.

I can easily see how this could get out of hand with GPS/speed data/tracking, though.

What's the saying? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 

csnv

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
209
Theoretically, the police could just sit behind a desk, audit your black box and send out citations at the end of the month. The possibilities are endless and all of them are bad.

Might as well just send the tickets daily at midnight to all blackbox owners who has done any driving that day. No need to check what's in the box until court date... "We'll sort out the minor details later"
 

Mini-Me

Gawd
Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
567
The paranoia and rhetoric over there at infowars was expected, but I thought this crowd would be a bit more knowledgeable.

This bill mandates the recording capability that's in many new cars today. Heck, I thought it was already universal. Your car that's been built in the last decade probably already does this. Check your owners manual, it's required to say so.
Code:
563.11 Information in owner’s manual. 
(a) The owner’s manual in each vehicle covered under this regulation must provide the 
following statement in English: 
  
This vehicle is equipped with an event data recorder (EDR). The 
main purpose....

Here's the bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1813/text Search on 31406.
Here's the crash data recorder standard that becomes mandatory instead of optional: http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/49CFR563.pdf

It specifies that the devices record data for up to 5 seconds before an airbag deployment. I've used this data once. A driver said the truck wouldn't slow down on the wet pavement. The crash recorder showed that the vehicle decelerated just fine before the crash, so, obviously, the braking was started too late and there was a rear-ender.

Yes, it's already there today, yada yada....and this is meant to make it MANDATORY, because the government believes it owns us. After it's mandatory, it becomes an offense to dismantle or remove it...and functionality can be extended arbitrarily, if it hasn't been extended already, where it's just waiting to be turned on.

Nowadays, if you're not paranoid, you're just not paying attention.
 

AFTFNJ

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
297
Why is there so much shit like this flying around right now, SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, black box shit, the huge data center in Utah that's being built to monitor all internet traffic and store it. Time to message my reps again :mad:.

.
Because the cabal of corporations and banksters that were backing naiz in ww2 never went away and there push for global domination and total control continues ....we are just noticing it more now because the alternate media on the internet. Time to put my tin foil hat back on....and drink my fluoride laced water since my government cares soo much about my cavities,.....:confused:
 

weebling1

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
2,233
Here's exactly what I did over the last 20 minutes:

*Reads article*

"Um, okay, I should probably read the actual bill proposal."

*Reads bill proposal*

"...Wait, what?"

*Reads article, again*

"I have no f%$#ing clue where they got that conclusion from."

The author misread the bill proposal, took it to an illogical extreme (and completely disregarded parts of the bill that effectively defang his argument, like the part that says, "Unless asked for by a court justice in a legal proceeding, the data collected by the recording device belongs to the owner of the vehicle") and then spent the second half of the article on a rambling conspiracy jaunt in the same vein (even the part about revoking passports makes sense in the proper context - if I owed someone $50k, I'd sure as hell try leaving the country... but I can't if I don't have a passport).

But, hey, InfoWars is the property of Alex Jones, self-described libertarian paleoconservative, so effectively anything that doesn't protect property rights, encourage decentralization, or keep our country firmly rooted in the late 1700's (despite the fact paleoconservatism espouses exactly the opposite idealism of our country's foundation, and is in fact a form of neo-liberalism) is essentially 'big government'.

Or, in short: Way to over-react, folks.

Your never going to seal the Republican nomination with statements like that :p
 

Mini-Me

Gawd
Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
567
Accessing the data requires a warrant at least I hope.

Yes, just like accessing your telephone calls and Internet packets requires a warrant...the same ones that the NSA reads like an open book without a warrant. ;)

None of the restrictions in the law even matter. It's all about the government having a technological foot in the door that we cannot kick out. Once the unit is mandatory and illegal to remove, cars can be manufactured with much more capable units (in many cases already are), which will STILL be mandatory and illegal to remove, because a small part of them fulfills the "safety-enhancing" requirements of this particular Trojan Horse bill. Regardless of what technological capabilities the law mandates, they will be made with more capabilities every year, and regardless of what the law says about restrictions on how/when the information may be accessed, the government will access the new information (eventually streaming information) however it pleases...and once it's in your car, you can't do a thing about it without, you know, breaking the law. Moreover, the more integral it becomes to the government's control grid, the steeper the penalties will become for tampering with it.

All of these petty arguments that try to downplay the significance of this law are missing the point entirely. The law isn't about mandating a blackbox with safety-enhancing features. The law is about legally punishing anyone who tries to remove a black box from their car, regardless of its capabilities.
 

TheWeazmeister

<a href=http://www.blogcdn.com/www.parentdish.com/
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Or, in short: Way to over-react, folks.

...Hardly. Did the same exact thing that you did. Observed the sensationalism that the rag that "published" this article put out there and then made up my own mind.

I looked at the "well-meaning and absolutely necessary for our security" TSA that was founded to protect our liberties, our way of life, and our country form threats foreign and domestic. :rolleyes: I looked at the wonderful history of regulators of industry such as the brilliant minds that helped Enron jack California around. I looked at the "phenomenal job" that the FDA does on a daily basis "protecting" us and said, geee I totally want to gubernment to have MY best interest in mind when while having access to a black box in my car, because there is NO WAY that this data could possibly be "farmed/harvested/whatever" and then used against me in or out of context.

"Well you have a tendency to drive as fast as the speed limit, so we are going to suggest to your health insurance provider that they increase your rates as you might be a high risk for accidents due to this "non-speeding" however excessive in our opinion speed." Whatever other lame scenario you can come up with, they will find a way to abuse it. They have a history of doing it, and are batting 100%.
 

TheWeazmeister

<a href=http://www.blogcdn.com/www.parentdish.com/
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I wonder how many people raging over this will happily pay their monthly OnStar bill.

There are plenty of people who get the OBDII plugin for savings on insurance. That is all irrelevant. That's a CHOICE that they are allowed to make for themselves, NOT something that is mandated. Incidentally, how long do you think until insurance companies figure out a way to have the same wonderful gubernment pass a bill into law that will give this data w/o any restraint to them? "You have insurance through them, they should have complete access to it."
 
Joined
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Messages
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"Well you have a tendency to drive as fast as the speed limit, so we are going to suggest to your health insurance provider that they increase your rates as you might be a high risk for accidents due to this "non-speeding" however excessive in our opinion speed." Whatever other lame scenario you can come up with, they will find a way to abuse it. They have a history of doing it, and are batting 100%.
You can paint anything with a negative brush. Anything at all. To conclude that they "are batting 100%", that the government can't do anything right is demonstrably false.

I have much, much bigger problems with services like OnStar that have convinced many car makers to install them as part of a certain trim level (or always), and I can of course "opt out" by not paying for the service. Well guess what, the tracking device is still there, and it's a hell of a lot easier to harvest than a black box.
 

Mini-Me

Gawd
Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
567
All of these petty arguments that try to downplay the significance of this law are missing the point entirely. The law isn't about mandating a blackbox with safety-enhancing features. The law is about legally punishing anyone who tries to remove a black box from their car, regardless of its capabilities.

Actually, I should clarify: I'm mistaken about the above. This current bill doesn't appear to make it illegal for the consumer to tamper with the device...it just makes it illegal for manufacturers to make cars without them. One baby step at a time: The anti-tampering bill will come soon enough.
 

Thuleman

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Apr 13, 2004
Messages
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"Do you know how fast you were going son?"
"40 MPH, the speed limit officer!"
*he checks a PDA type thing*
"You were going 53 MPH. Here is your ticket, have a nice day."

Excellent example of citizens having nothing to fear if they aren't doing anything wrong.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Thanks for making me aware of this. I've posted links to this in my gaming team's forums.

Who in the world have we elected that thinks this is a good idea? Which of them thinks that our whereabouts are any of their business? And why does it seem like every week they try to pull more of this legislative garbage on us? Did our congressman ever attend history class? They are apparently in the wrong country. I'm getting sick of this. That they would even SUGGEST this scares the hell out of me.
 

Mini-Me

Gawd
Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
567
Thanks for making me aware of this. I've posted links to this in my gaming team's forums.

Who in the world have we elected that thinks this is a good idea? Which of them thinks that our whereabouts are any of their business? And why does it seem like every week they try to pull more of this legislative garbage on us? Did our congressman ever attend history class? They are apparently in the wrong country. I'm getting sick of this. That they would even SUGGEST this scares the hell out of me.

What they're seeing is this:

No matter what ridiculous bills Congress dreams up and signs into law, they and the people they serve have been able to consistently get away with it without any real consequences. The most we've been able to do is yell at them enough to get them to try again later (SOPA/PIPA). Electoral threats rarely succeed, and hey only buy us a small amount of time, since the electoral process is so broken that swapping Red Team's anointed puppets out for Blue Team's puppets (and vice versa) never actually changes anything. As a result, they're becoming increasingly bold in their authoritarianism.

Meanwhile, the country is in economic turmoil, and the government will collapse for financial reasons within our lifetimes. Everyone can see it coming (except for people just smart enough to trick themselves into believing stupid things), but the situation is far too bad for most to feel comfortable facing, and it's political suicide for anyone in power to actually cut spending at ALL, let alone by the huge amounts we need.

Solution: Accelerate police state measures, because they might help the government maintain its dominance indefinitely, and they have nothing to fear from us in the meantime, since we're letting them pass whatever the heck they want. A lot of people are angry and scared of what's to come, but we're still outnumbered too greatly by the apathetic, the ignorant, the partisan, and the petty.
 
Joined
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Excellent example of citizens having nothing to fear if they aren't doing anything wrong.

Yet the very ones implementing these tactics are the very same ones committing the worst atrocities of all. Yet my speeding is something the planet as a whole should fear!


Wars for profit (murder, pillage, rape, slaughter, massacre,etc)
False flag attacks on the civilian population
The Internally (only what they wish to release) audited federal reserve (not federal, privately owned).
The stripping of the constitution, freedom of speech, etc
NDAA, SOPA, PIPA, CIPA, patriot act, etc
" The hardest thing in the world to understand is the Income Tax." Albert Einstein (lol, yeah, this guy said it!)

Just to name a few off the top of my head. Open your ears and eyes....

There's a war going on, and it's against you! It's just paced slowly so the dumb people fall back on their right to forgetfulness.

 
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