"Big Dongle" Jokes Get Everyone Fired

HardUp4HardWare

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Just wondering here. If that was a gay guy saying those "jokes". Would this have transpired differently?

She would have given them a pass because they are gay right?

What a sad, stupid commentary on todays world. That being said she is definately one whacked psycho-fem.
 

mrgstiffler

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There is absolutely something wrong with that. There is a difference between me standing up on a podium with a bullhorn and saying something, versus saying something at a conversational level to a close friend over dinner.

Any sane reasonable person will realize that the expectation of privacy is different between the two.

These guys were NOT on stage with a microphone speaking to an audience, they were speaking to each other, and a snoop acted as a megaphone misinterpreting it and blasting them and photographing them in a character attack that cost them their jobs. So, no, its not how things should work, and the bitch deserves the backlash she is receiving for making something private so public.

If you want completely privacy, stay in your own home. Look, what she did was definitely a "dick move" and I would never do something like that. I will, however, defend her right to do so. Everybody has the right to be an asshole. The consequences of being an asshole is that nobody is going to like you, as she is discovering.

And yes, it is how things should work. You don't have any more or less rights than anyone else. You can say what you want and so can she. It doesn't make her actions a nice thing to do.
 

Ducman69

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You seem to be arguing the law versus my comments about what is and is not acceptable behavior as a matter of common sense and etiquette.

I'm pretty sure its not against the law to fart in a crowded elevator, but doing so is certainly not "the way things should be" and I sure as hell am not going to defend her right to toot out her fish taco lunch.
 

mrgstiffler

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You seem to be arguing the law versus my comments about what is and is not acceptable behavior as a matter of common sense and etiquette.

I'm pretty sure its not against the law to fart in a crowded elevator, but doing so is certainly not "the way things should be" and I sure as hell am not going to defend her right to toot out her fish taco lunch.

No, not exactly the law. I'm sure the law is actually very complex about this kind of thing. More about people believing they don't need to be responsible for what they say/do. I said from the very beginning that she lacked common decency in how she handled the situation. But she should be able to do what she did. Just as long as she's prepared to handle the consequences. The two guys behind her should be able to make all the jokes they want. Just as long as they're prepared to handle the consequences. Good or bad, just be prepared to own what you do or say. I've made a fool of myself many times. I've wanted to crawl in a hole and die of embarrassment for things I've said in the past. I wont pretend that I shouldn't be responsible for that.
 

DW-UK

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So we have the right outcome then. Justice served. No need to go back and fix it. He went down because of what he did, with his disposition. She went down because of what she did, with her disposition. Tit for Tat. He gave Tat. She gave Tit. What goes around, comes around. You reap what you so. Live by the sword / die by the sword. You project / it reflects. Every action force has an opposite reaction force. Logic and Fate is the same thing. All those hits make you what you are to become.(Ask God)

Then what will be your downfall? What is your fate? You could take a safe position where you will have no impact, on anything, where you will never show up on any radar. There is always that. (Joke: If I go down, I just reload the save game)
 

Zarathustra[H]

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My take on this issue:

1.) The guy was clearly out of line. There is no place for sexual, gender or other related jokes in a professional setting. Period. End of story. Never. No exceptions. There is also no place for girly calendars, raunchy remarks, gender demeaning remarks etc. etc.

2.) The woman (I forget her name) SHOULD have reported him. There is no need for her to work it out with him first, or anything like that. He was out of line she should have spoken to event organizers and it should have been dealt with through official channels, subtly.

3.) She probably showed a little poor judgment in, instead of dealing with it through official channels, taking a picture and posting it to her large crowd of followers. This type of public shaming was not necessary, but I understand why she could have been peeved to the extent why she did it.

4.) Being fired was probably a little harsh sentence on the guy, unless this was a repeated issue with him. (I don't have, nor want his personnel file). Some form of formal work reprimand or warning letter and possibly a suspension would not have been out of place.

5.) The criticism against and eventual firing of her is completely wrong. Her only mistake was showing a little poor judgment in how she responded to the situation, but that is minor compared to the offense itself.


While these issues are never easy, in a less public setting they would certainly be easier to deal with. The intersection of workplace conduct, public media, and social media (specifically a person with a lot of follower) made this one particularly challenging.
 

Kaitian

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Zarathustra[H];1039727957 said:
My take on this issue:

1.) The guy was clearly out of line. There is no place for sexual, gender or other related jokes in a professional setting. Period. End of story. Never. No exceptions. There is also no place for girly calendars, raunchy remarks, gender demeaning remarks etc. etc.

2.) The woman (I forget her name) SHOULD have reported him. There is no need for her to work it out with him first, or anything like that. He was out of line she should have spoken to event organizers and it should have been dealt with through official channels, subtly.

3.) She probably showed a little poor judgment in, instead of dealing with it through official channels, taking a picture and posting it to her large crowd of followers. This type of public shaming was not necessary, but I understand why she could have been peeved to the extent why she did it.

4.) Being fired was probably a little harsh sentence on the guy, unless this was a repeated issue with him. (I don't have, nor want his personnel file). Some form of formal work reprimand or warning letter and possibly a suspension would not have been out of place.

5.) The criticism against and eventual firing of her is completely wrong. Her only mistake was showing a little poor judgment in how she responded to the situation, but that is minor compared to the offense itself.


While these issues are never easy, in a less public setting they would certainly be easier to deal with. The intersection of workplace conduct, public media, and social media (specifically a person with a lot of follower) made this one particularly challenging.

Two things you missed here. They were discussing in technical terms and she construed that to have been sexual terms. Hence forking may have been implied as scissoring whereas dongue may have been implied as dong, wang, whatever. She gave a little snippet to the conversation so we do not know what was said except by her words.

The second thing was that she dragged her company into the mess where if she had handled the situation properly and sought a better remedy, they would have backed her up. Instead she unequivocally stated they had her back no matter what. That was a big firing offense. You don't misrepresent what your company's position is especially if you're not the spokesperson for that company, you don't pull claims out of thin air.
 

chockomonkey

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Two things you missed here. They were discussing in technical terms and she construed that to have been sexual terms. Hence forking may have been implied as scissoring whereas dongue may have been implied as dong, wang, whatever. She gave a little snippet to the conversation so we do not know what was said except by her words.

The second thing was that she dragged her company into the mess where if she had handled the situation properly and sought a better remedy, they would have backed her up. Instead she unequivocally stated they had her back no matter what. That was a big firing offense. You don't misrepresent what your company's position is especially if you're not the spokesperson for that company, you don't pull claims out of thin air.

Exactly... the dude said Fork a Repo.

I'm surprised she's so ignorant while being at pycon...
 

LeninGHOLA

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Most tech based HR departments would have just given the dudes a verbal warning if indeed they were being inappropriate like she claims. They were fired because it went public and they needed to do damage control due to her actions.

In a professional work environment inappropriate things are said all the time. The line should be drawn when it is hurtful or harassing. Hell, I've heard worse from some HR people.
 

ravx25

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Zarathustra[H];1039727957 said:
My take on this issue:

1.) The guy was clearly out of line. There is no place for sexual, gender or other related jokes in a professional setting. Period. End of story. Never. No exceptions. There is also no place for girly calendars, raunchy remarks, gender demeaning remarks etc. etc.

2.) The woman (I forget her name) SHOULD have reported him. There is no need for her to work it out with him first, or anything like that. He was out of line she should have spoken to event organizers and it should have been dealt with through official channels, subtly.

3.) She probably showed a little poor judgment in, instead of dealing with it through official channels, taking a picture and posting it to her large crowd of followers. This type of public shaming was not necessary, but I understand why she could have been peeved to the extent why she did it.

4.) Being fired was probably a little harsh sentence on the guy, unless this was a repeated issue with him. (I don't have, nor want his personnel file). Some form of formal work reprimand or warning letter and possibly a suspension would not have been out of place.

5.) The criticism against and eventual firing of her is completely wrong. Her only mistake was showing a little poor judgment in how she responded to the situation, but that is minor compared to the offense itself.


While these issues are never easy, in a less public setting they would certainly be easier to deal with. The intersection of workplace conduct, public media, and social media (specifically a person with a lot of follower) made this one particularly challenging.

You sound exactly like the type of person that is wrong with America, I'm sorry.

1) He was not clearly out of line. It was an "A" and "B" thing, she should have "C"een her way out of it. She decided to be offended for the point of it. She should have said something to them and/or just walked away. BTW, forking is a technical term, look it up. The dongle issue is pretty tame and she herself spoke similarly in previous Twitters, thus rendering her a hypocrite.

2) Yes, she should have said something to them. It is within her right to do what she did, but there is a social context to behavior as well. She is reaping those results now. If they had continued, social norms dictate to absolutely call them out.

3) A little? Really??? She, more or less, managed to get a guy with 3 kids and family fired. I know she didn't pull the trigger but she started it. If you look up her online history, there isn't a way this offended her that badly.

4) Again, a little?? Try a lot. And how she did it could potentially be life altering. Frankly, I think it well within his rights to possibly sue her. But as you pointed out in the rest of this point, a write up of some sort would have been appropriate.

5) Her eventual firing was merited completely. It is her job, as a developer evangelist, to unite two sides in conversation, and she just managed to practically alienate one side. Then she turns right around and tries to make it seem like the company vouched for her that it was okay. Sounds to me like it was well withing their discernment to have fired her.

I do think what the guy did was wrong and should have been spoken to. I also think what she did was egregiously wrong. Frankly, from everything I've read about her online persona, she sounds like a small minded person. By the way, did you have siblings? If you did, your parents should have taught you not to tattle. Hers apparently did not.
 

Reimu

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Adria has become quite a liability for her all-too-recent employer, making firing her easily justifiable.
Frankly, the man that she shamed was no different in that sense. Why would any firm want a liability?

I actually wonder if most of the people that have responded to this fiasco have pondered about the impact that this sort of thing have to the corporation? It felt as if that everyone's gotten their eyes on the matter of unbridled bigotry and the whole tattle-telling, when in fact the victim here would be the two firms that hired them in good faith.

Sure, you can brush this off and suggest that the HR department lack oversight in hiring, but do interviews really reveal everything about the integrity and mental disposition of the applicants? Frankly, would it even be accepted for the interviewers to have that sort of understanding about their applicants, if such were possible?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Feminazis strike again.

I'm sick of this man hating feminist bullshit. Feminists aren't interested in equality; if they were, they would be over in Saudi Arabia fighting for women's rights. They simply hate men and they are doing everything they can to wage a war on men.

Are women so delicate that they cannot tolerate a joke? Because that is what the feminists are implying.

I think you got being a man confused with being a douchebag... :rolleyes:
 

LeninGHOLA

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Zarathustra[H];1039728181 said:
I think you got being a man confused with being a douchebag... :rolleyes:

"douchebag" is a chauvanistic insult. Prepare for divorce papers.
 

lilbabycat

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Zarathustra[H];1039727957 said:
My take on this issue:

1.) The guy was clearly out of line. There is no place for sexual, gender or other related jokes in a professional setting. Period. End of story. Never. No exceptions. There is also no place for girly calendars, raunchy remarks, gender demeaning remarks etc. etc.

In my opinion this is crazy person talk. Adding "or other related jokes" just opens the way for *anything* to be construed as sexual. Who draws the line / Determines what is offensive? What happens when a customer uses a lewd remark? Who are you going to go complaining to?

When you start enforcing to this degree you attempt to dehumanize your workers and can only expect there to be backlash. Furthermore, the ability of someone to handle other people, other personalities, conflict, "being uncomfortable"; directly relates to their
ability as a worker. Can't handle a joke? How will you handle a strict project deadline?

It's kind of strange how overly sensitive people are so intent on making the world so strict and full of rules that they desensitize and dehumanize; whereas those that are less sensitive are so much less strict and "let things slide".

Anyways this has turned into a bit of an unorganized rant. This is my opinion, take it as you will.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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By the way, did you have siblings? If you did, your parents should have taught you not to tattle. Hers apparently did not.

While I can see your point in most of what you said (but still hold to my statements) I completely and totally disagree with this particular one.

This is was leads to the "anti snitching" gang culture shit.

If you witness a wrong, it is your responsibility to report it, otherwise that wrong will never change, and society will never improve.

Oftentimes the "snitch" is the biggest hero.
 

lilbabycat

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Zarathustra[H];1039728198 said:
If you witness a wrong, it is your responsibility to report it, otherwise that wrong will never change, and society will never improve.

A society that has no jokes, insults, derogatory remarks of whatever offensive nature is not a society that I would enjoy, and not one that I want to exist. I am absolutely sure I am not alone in this opinion.
 

Nytegard

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Adria has become quite a liability for her all-too-recent employer, making firing her easily justifiable.
Frankly, the man that she shamed was no different in that sense. Why would any firm want a liability?

I actually wonder if most of the people that have responded to this fiasco have pondered about the impact that this sort of thing have to the corporation? It felt as if that everyone's gotten their eyes on the matter of unbridled bigotry and the whole tattle-telling, when in fact the victim here would be the two firms that hired them in good faith.

Sure, you can brush this off and suggest that the HR department lack oversight in hiring, but do interviews really reveal everything about the integrity and mental disposition of the applicants? Frankly, would it even be accepted for the interviewers to have that sort of understanding about their applicants, if such were possible?

The problem is, it's really impossible. Who here has never made an insensitive comment in a workplace setting? I'm calling BS on anyone who says that they never have (unless of course, they never held a job).

I agree, the companies are the only faultless victims, and that both the people deserved to be fired. As you stated, they became liabilities. A difference though is that for the man who lost his job, he became a liability because of someone who a complex, and without what had happened, things most likely could have been resolved in a peaceful manner. She on the other hand has a long history of such douchebaggery. Sadly, the reality is she'll probably still be better off, even in the short run (she'll probably be immediately hired elsewhere), than the guy she got fired.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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In my opinion this is crazy person talk. Adding "or other related jokes" just opens the way for *anything* to be construed as sexual. Who draws the line / Determines what is offensive? What happens when a customer uses a lewd remark? Who are you going to go complaining to?

When you start enforcing to this degree you attempt to dehumanize your workers and can only expect there to be backlash. Furthermore, the ability of someone to handle other people, other personalities, conflict, "being uncomfortable"; directly relates to their
ability as a worker. Can't handle a joke? How will you handle a strict project deadline?

It's kind of strange how overly sensitive people are so intent on making the world so strict and full of rules that they desensitize and dehumanize; whereas those that are less sensitive are so much less strict and "let things slide".

Anyways this has turned into a bit of an unorganized rant. This is my opinion, take it as you will.


When you show up at work, you are there to be a man, or a woman.

You are there to get a job done, collect a paycheck and support yourself.

Leave your dirty jokes, derogatory feelings towards women/gays/whatever, religion and politics at home.

I believe in the strictest sense of work conduct and propriety when it comes to this matter.

I would suggest even flirting is inappropriate in a professional setting.

I think someone who schedules a work lunch at a Hooters should be fired.

Any fully or partially nude calendars, posters or desktop at work should have the same effect.

I would recommend watching the film "North Country" as an example as WHY these rules are as important as they are.
 

ServerKing

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This is was leads to the "anti snitching" gang culture shit.

Gang culture really? Wow I didnt know Tadale Tale can be so wrong, she should have just ignored the conversation and kept her noise out of other peoples conversations. If you dont like to hear what they are talking about go the F away I cannot stand people like that who always want attention or try to make something out of nothing.
 

LeninGHOLA

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Gang culture really? Wow I didnt know Tadale Tale can be so wrong, she should have just ignored the conversation and kept her noise out of other peoples conversations. If you dont like to hear what they are talking about go the F away I cannot stand people like that who always want attention or try to make something out of nothing.

But she was a hero, making society a better place.
 

Ducman69

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Good or bad, just be prepared to own what you do or say. I've made a fool of myself many times. I've wanted to crawl in a hole and die of embarrassment for things I've said in the past. I wont pretend that I shouldn't be responsible for that.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, as what I don't feel that I should have to lean over and whisper in to my friends ear or make sure all the windows are closed in my house or that no one is listening over the fence on the patio when I make a joke, and that if I do and some nosy person overhears it that I should expect that it would be broadcast to a large audience with my picture attached completely out of context and potentially completely misinterpreted.

That simply is not a culture that I want to live my life in, and if I can make things as difficult as possible for people that do fire people over this kind of nonsense or create the fear mongering in the first place by completely unwarranted race/gender card flagging, I feel better at the end of the day for doing my part.

What good is freedom of speech if you have to live in fear that every little joke you made that is merely overheard can result in you losing your job where all your friends are and putting your family at risk in this challenging economy. As I suggested before, that's a culture of thought-oppression, just like in the red scare.

Can't say we didn't see the writing on the wall with all the affirmative action programs and hate crime legislation and the like... sigh.
 

Nytegard

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Zarathustra[H];1039728198 said:
While I can see your point in most of what you said (but still hold to my statements) I completely and totally disagree with this particular one.

This is was leads to the "anti snitching" gang culture shit.

If you witness a wrong, it is your responsibility to report it, otherwise that wrong will never change, and society will never improve.

Oftentimes the "snitch" is the biggest hero.

There are times to work within the system, and times you can't work within the system. You work outside of the system when the system fails you. She didn't even attempt to work within the system. She decided it was her duty to go above and beyond, and take a nuclear bomb to kill a fly, because she was above everyone else.

Is the software world male dominated? Of course. Even take a look at many of the words used. Quite a few have sexist overtones.

But there are different levels of wrongs. I've seen several articles trying to compare what happened to her as equal to many of the rape cases that have come up. They're not equal in any shape nor form. The two guys behind her had absolutely no intention on harming her. What he did was the equivalent of speeding on the highway. Almost all of us do it one time or another (and some more frequently than others). But you don't get a prison sentence for it, unless there was a lot of other stuff involved, at which point, the speeding is probably the least of your worries. Typically, you just get a citation, and for awhile, you drive a lot slower.
 

Tudz

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Zarathustra[H];1039727957 said:
My take on this issue:

1.) The guy was clearly out of line. There is no place for sexual, gender or other related jokes in a professional setting. Period. End of story. Never. No exceptions. There is also no place for girly calendars, raunchy remarks, gender demeaning remarks etc. etc.

2.) The woman (I forget her name) SHOULD have reported him. There is no need for her to work it out with him first, or anything like that. He was out of line she should have spoken to event organizers and it should have been dealt with through official channels, subtly.

3.) She probably showed a little poor judgment in, instead of dealing with it through official channels, taking a picture and posting it to her large crowd of followers. This type of public shaming was not necessary, but I understand why she could have been peeved to the extent why she did it.

4.) Being fired was probably a little harsh sentence on the guy, unless this was a repeated issue with him. (I don't have, nor want his personnel file). Some form of formal work reprimand or warning letter and possibly a suspension would not have been out of place.

5.) The criticism against and eventual firing of her is completely wrong. Her only mistake was showing a little poor judgment in how she responded to the situation, but that is minor compared to the offense itself.


While these issues are never easy, in a less public setting they would certainly be easier to deal with. The intersection of workplace conduct, public media, and social media (specifically a person with a lot of follower) made this one particularly challenging.

1) Actually it's not "clear" at all that the guy was out of line. Certain every day words carry sexual connotations, live with it. The time I worked in a workshop you couldn't go one day without some talk of fitting shafts in to holes and how nicely and tightly it fits in with a bit of lube, you could be saying it completely legitimately as that's what you're working on but because those terms have sexual connotations, inevitably there'd be a giggle or two. Are we going to stop using words like shaft, lube, hole, tight, loose, etc etc just because they can have sexual connotations and someone might get offended?

2) She's within her right to do what she did, but should she report it? Not IMO. If you want to actually see change the best way to do it is to just say something like "come on guys". Almost guarantee that would have been sufficient, and if it wasn't, then she can report it. That's just common decency.

3) No, she didn't show a little poor judgement, she showed that she cares more about making a scene than she does about actually helping the situation. The fact it's not the first time she has done it makes me feel it wasn't just a temporary lapse in judgement.

4) I think it is unfair for him to be fired for such comments. If we were all subject to such conditions, I think almost everyone both male and female would have been fired from half a dozen jobs by now.

5) You say it's completely wrong, I personally think it's completely justified. Again, this wasn't a momentary lapse in judgement on her part, she has shown a history of not dealing with problems with the people who actually she has the problem with and instead going public to use it against them. Taking their photos and posting them online without the guy's permission is extremely unprofessional. Publicly shaming them is extremely unprofessional. Not first discussing the problem before going public is extremely unprofessional. This is not a momentary lapse in judgement, this is how she has behaved in the past...

https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/

....and I see no problem with firing her because of it, especially given her job largely revolves around public relations...
 

ravx25

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Zarathustra[H];1039728198 said:
While I can see your point in most of what you said (but still hold to my statements) I completely and totally disagree with this particular one.

This is was leads to the "anti snitching" gang culture shit.

If you witness a wrong, it is your responsibility to report it, otherwise that wrong will never change, and society will never improve.

Oftentimes the "snitch" is the biggest hero.

I think one has to weigh the situation though. Even where I work we are made to keep tattle tale hotline stickers out in the open. It's obviously there for a reason, partly because so many people are sue happy a company doesn't want to get into that predicament. However, in this particular case, I don't think the guy was being sexist towards her or women in general. It was an immature, ill conceived joke in a public, professional setting. Especially for what her job is, she should have spoken up to them. I do agree though, if it's an ongoing, more trivial thing (even just a second time, because that person would have been warned), or especially egregious, it definitely needs to be pointed out.

I do think that if they had been sitting back there verbally calling her out in some sense, even if below their breath, that would probably merit raising the flag clear up the flagpole. This was so much less than that though. Let me ask you a proverbial question though. Is it wrong for Bob to ask Sally out on a date because he thinks she is beautiful? It is certainly within Sally's rights to be offended, but with Bob asking that one time is it right for her to go straight to HR? That is essentially how I, personally, see this. Back on subject, Adria gave this guy no leeway in saying he was wrong. As someone pointed out, she could have called them out without taking a picture and her motive would have been served.
 

MoFoQ

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anyone else remember the "dongle" reference in Bestbuy's Superbowl commercial?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgmhhVCLgM8

but yea...Amanda Blum's write-up is correct...this vendictive person gives everyone a bad name.
With her history, I'm amazed that she even landed a PR job....in this day and age.
 

mrgstiffler

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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, as what I don't feel that I should have to lean over and whisper in to my friends ear or make sure all the windows are closed in my house or that no one is listening over the fence on the patio when I make a joke, and that if I do and some nosy person overhears it that I should expect that it would be broadcast to a large audience with my picture attached completely out of context and potentially completely misinterpreted.

That simply is not a culture that I want to live my life in, and if I can make things as difficult as possible for people that do fire people over this kind of nonsense or create the fear mongering in the first place by completely unwarranted race/gender card flagging, I feel better at the end of the day for doing my part.

What good is freedom of speech if you have to live in fear that every little joke you made that is merely overheard can result in you losing your job where all your friends are and putting your family at risk in this challenging economy. As I suggested before, that's a culture of thought-oppression, just like in the red scare.

Can't say we didn't see the writing on the wall with all the affirmative action programs and hate crime legislation and the like... sigh.

I'm not sure what it is that you want. Do you want to prevent someone from doing what she did?
 

ravx25

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I'm not sure what it is that you want. Do you want to prevent someone from doing what she did?

I think his point is that we shouldn't have to feel as though we are traipsing through a mine field all the time when we are around people. Too many people just want to be offended in this country. In a more simple way (and I heard/seen this before so I can't take credit for it) I think the expression "I'm offended that you're offended" comes to mind.
 

lilbabycat

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Zarathustra[H];1039728215 said:
When you show up at work, you are there to be a man, or a woman.

You are there to get a job done, collect a paycheck and support yourself.

Leave your dirty jokes, derogatory feelings towards women/gays/whatever, religion and politics at home.

I believe in the strictest sense of work conduct and propriety when it comes to this matter.

I would suggest even flirting is inappropriate in a professional setting.


I think someone who schedules a work lunch at a Hooters should be fired.

Any fully or partially nude calendars, posters or desktop at work should have the same effect.

I would recommend watching the film "North Country" as an example as WHY these rules are as important as they are.

Ok...just ok...I'm done. CLEARLY you are someone who is at the polar opposite of common sense. Good luck on your Utopia. I AM A ROBOT FOR 8 HOURS OF MY LIFE EVERY DAY.

Meanwhile I'll enjoy every bit of my waking hours as a human being.
 

EchtoGammut

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She is 100% wrong from doing what she did and the way she did. But, most people seem to be missing the bigger issue, that the guy's employee fired him without just cause. If he wanted to pursue it, I am sure he could file a wrongful termination suit. He is being fired for an out of context (inside humor) comment, overheard by someone else who acted in shameful manner. While it could be argued that your every word is a reflection of the company, he is not a PR rep, so that argument is rather flat. Furthermore, firing someone without giving them the opportunity to respond or diffuse the situation is despicable. If anything, people should be on public forums decrying his company for creating a situation that is coming to be known as donglegate... when if they had done nothing, this would have never even have made a news blip.
 

Nytegard

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While it could be argued that your every word is a reflection of the company, he is not a PR rep, so that argument is rather flat.

I've seen people fired for out of work comments and actions before who were not PR reps. My last job constantly stated that as an employee, everything you say or do outside is a reflection of the company, and will be treated as such. With a person with 30000 twitter followers trying to make you a public enemy with a very vocal minority, I can understand why the guy became a liability and needed to be terminated. In fact, the only people in this whole mess who haven't overreacted were the two guys and the two companies.
 
D

Deleted member 126051

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Okay. I see it thus.

These guys were in the wrong for making the jokes they did in a public place. I probably wouldn't be offended by what they said. But this isn't me we're talking about. And it probably should have occurred to them that, with women sitting around, that if they WERE overheard, what they said might be misconstrued.

Was Adria right to tweet about the incident, even if it was possible she misconstrued?

Sure!

Was having the two escorted from the hall within her right? Yes. A bit much, but yes.

Was photographing them, posting it and thus publicly accusing them, giving them ZERO ability to defend themselves wrong?

HELL THE FUCK YES! Public "Name and Shame" like this is always wrong. ALWAYS.

Was the guy's employer wrong for terminating him? Probably not.

Yeah. Firing him was a sucktastic move, but with the whole "PC uber alles" mentality nowadays, even an incident as stupid as this one is could have MAJOR repercussions for their business.

Was the whole Internet backlash on Richards "wrong"? Yes and no.
Was the whole Internet backlash on Richards "right"? Yes and no.

Some of the language used (on all sides) was TOTALLY inappropriate.

A bunch of idiots came out to insure the "chauvinist pig" mindless-set was heard from.

The Internet social-ragers (in the form of the wannabe hackers in Anonymous) got their DDOS in. Yay! Skill-less tool usage! ANOTHER perverse double entendre!

The moderates, of all leanings, were heard from.

The "moderate-but-not-really" contingent made some show of being fair and even-handed before devolving back to whatever their original agenda was.

And all the radical feminists are ticked because, somehow, the "misogynist patriarchy" has somehow "won again".

Basically everyone came out, and, on the whole, the fact that the situation is being discussed is a Good Thing.

The problem is, it also highlights EXACTLY how badly fragmented AND polarized the issue is. And how very few people are willing to find a working middle ground.

Were Adria's employers "wrong" for firing her? Not a damn bit.

She's someone put in place to evangelize. As such, she's in a VERY public position. Yet she has been ANYTHING but careful in her own public presence. She's shown herself to be at LEAST as rude, crude and bigoted as the people she objected to, if not more so.

As such, she's dragged her employer into her little social drama without any regard for them. And she's abused her position as a public face for her company.

This basically means she has destroyed any value she could have reasonably brought to the company. As anything she'd have done for them in the future would have been tainted by this.

It could have been an opportunity to retrain her so that she actually THINKS about her actions. Instead of simply jumping on her bully pulpit and firing salvos into the lives of other people without a thought for the damage she causes.

And will Adria learn from this?

Probably not. She's already proven she's willing to take the "easy" way out and pull the race and gender cards at any and every opportunity.

Still, it should be rather difficult for her to find employment in her chosen field after this. So it should be MUCH tougher for her to inflict this sort of damage on others again.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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She's within her right to do what she did, but should she report it? Not IMO. If you want to actually see change the best way to do it is to just say something like "come on guys". Almost guarantee that would have been sufficient, and if it wasn't, then she can report it. That's just common decency.

I couldn't disagree more with this line of thought.

She shouldn't have to turn around and ASK to be in a non-offensive professional work environment. It should be a basic universal expectation. I don't condone her "public shaming" bit, but I'd support her every bit of the way had she instead done the trade-show equivalent of "going to HR."

There is no place for talk like that in a professional setting (or really anywhere) and coming out to bat for that douchebag, you really look like you are defending the "good old boys" gentleman status quo.

I'm all for making an extreme example of anyone who even dares approach the grey zone of workplace sexual conduct, with the hope that maybe future generations will be influenced and find it unacceptable.

If we are all lucky, in the next couple of generations there will be absolutely zero tolerance for "boys being boys" type bullshit.

While you are right, there is no direct equivalence, and this is very very minor in comparison, it is "boys being boys" thinking like this that leads to the kind of coverups and bullshit that happened in Steubenville. It needs to be completely and totally eradicated if we are to have a decent society.
 

Absentee

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A point I'd like to make on her being fired: she is a Developer Evangelist, basically a PR person sitting between developers and non developers. She can't exactly be effective at her job anymore if she pissed of the entire developer community.

That, and she dragged her company into it, publicly, on twitter. I'd have fired her for that alone.
 

Absentee

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A point I'd like to make on her being fired: she is a Developer Evangelist, basically a PR person sitting between developers and non developers. She can't exactly be effective at her job anymore if she pissed of the entire developer community.

That, and she dragged her company into it, publicly, on twitter. I'd have fired her for that alone.

Oh, and this is the same woman that can make jokes publicly on twitter about guys stuffing their crotches with gym socks. But a "fork his repo" joke is a no-no. :rolleyes:
 

Ducman69

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Zarathustra[H];1039728995 said:
I'm all for making an extreme example of anyone who even dares approach the grey zone of workplace sexual conduct, with the hope that maybe future generations will be influenced and find it unacceptable.
No, future generations are clearly already demonstrating a backlash against such draconian attitudes like yours.

It seems the pendulum can never center without at least a few extremist swings, from overly conservative tightwads to useless acid popping hippies and from overt insensitivity in corporate America to the hyper-sensitive politically correct witch hunts of today.

Can't we for once just say enough is enough and act like well adjusted rational people before this completely boils over? But hey, that's just me, keep up with your extreme examples and see how that works out for you and influences your peers.
 

Ranulfo

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I was referring to the rampant misogyny int he field, shown in so many ways by this thread and the people in it.

You've never hung around a group of women where as a man you were the minority have you? Heard some of the jokes they've said when they didn't think you were around? Plenty of ladies would surprise you.

I've often surprised people by some of my attitudes and jokes when they get to know me out of a work or formal social setting.
 
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