Big Brother Wants Black Boxes In Your Car

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
15,103
I absolutely love the idea of this in the case of accidents, as it stands insurance companies are more than happy to let you take the blame and raise your rates (win-win situation) simply based upon some stupid "who was in front" argument (regardless if they slammed on the brakes, or drifted in front of you then stopped, or whatever).

However the LEA ramifications are scary at worst. I know my car (Prius) has a black box, but apparently it's encrypted data and can only be decoded by a few machines in the world and requires some executive of Toyota to ok it (at least it used to be like that, pre-Prius out of Control issues :D)... The data in a black box should be one of those things that requires a judge's search warrant to access, however as it stands your phone can be searched without a warrant can't see why this wouldn't be any different.
 

Youn

Supreme [H]ardness
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+1, it's the future, would bring more positive (insurance, crime fighting, etc...) then negative (crybaby folks complaining)
 

Etherton

Will Bang for Poof
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Aug 7, 2006
Messages
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My work van has what they call "green driver" plugged into the service port. I hate it. Tracks everything.... from the time I start to the time I park it at night. I brake too hard... they know.
 

Gorankar

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
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Awhile back the Obama Dept. of Transportation wanted to tax drivers per mile. It appears this is the first step in that direction.

In a way, they already do, it's called the federal fuel tax. If they want to tax by the mile it is as easy as a simple check of your odometer when you register your car every year or two. No need to add a black box for that bit of info.
 

Cyraxx

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 21, 2005
Messages
4,114
+1, it's the future, would bring more positive (insurance, crime fighting, etc...) then negative (crybaby folks complaining)

You are so close minded it's amazing, really. Moronic, actually. :rolleyes:

It's never a matter of what they currently do. They didn't put camera's at lights that took pictures of license plates and mailed them a $100+ ticket at first. It's a matter of what is possible.
 

The Blue

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
71
(The American people would never allow a box like this to relay secret information, anyway.)
Yeah, because it is nothing like that little box you keep glued to your ear 6 hours a day :rolleyes:. Anyway I would be for it if they could not access it through a wireless connection. Only use it maybe when they are like selling the car (for diagnosis, any wrecks and the sort) that is not far from what they have now. It could also be just as useful in accidents, as long as the data was considered your own. Maybe a warrant or permission is needed to access it legally. That data should be considered private.
 

Khadgar

Weaksauce
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
90
This will work nicely with the miles driven tax... Then the man will know both where you are and if your driving habits are "acceptable".
 

nyTroX

Weaksauce
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
91
I dont think this is bad thing.
Some cars already have this and is being used in the case of accidents.
As in this case:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Man-on-trial-for-traffic-deaths-of-Plano-family--101576633.html"Police testified that the crash data recorder showed the Pontiac had its accelerator pushed to the floor. Its speed was recorded at 98 mph just before the air bags deployed."

If they didnt have that information, then they wouldn't have been able to convict this man for killing a family because he was speeding, and not because the breaks failed....

All the people talking about using it to give tickets for speeding, it's pretty clear that is not how it is going to be used,

YET!!

Bit by bit, they'll try and use this info for revenue generation...
 

Gideon

2[H]4U
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Apr 13, 2006
Messages
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Black boxes in cars has been around for a long time since about 1995. The goverment is just getting around to making them mandatory and allowing others access to it. Right now only manufactures have access to it.
 

Dekoth-E-

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(The American people would never allow a box like this to relay secret information, anyway.)

You SEVERELY underestimate the complacency of the american people.

Concerning the comment of we won't know much about it, Steve you really underestimate the car enthusiast community. I promise you it would be days before it was hacked and likely even less then that before many if not most car enthusiasts removed it entirely.
 

Enduring_Warrior

[H]ard|Gawd
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Sep 22, 2004
Messages
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+1, it's the future, would bring more positive (insurance, crime fighting, etc...) then negative (crybaby folks complaining)

Technology is neither bad nor good. It is its use what affects other in positive and negative ways.
Pointing out and passing judgement on your fellow forum members while ignoring the state of the government is no other thing and a huge demonstration of hypocrisy and cynicism.
Posting in a forum in spite of the obvious display of these two attributes is a huge display of stupidity and negligence.
 

Enduring_Warrior

[H]ard|Gawd
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You are so close minded it's amazing, really. Moronic, actually. :rolleyes:

It's never a matter of what they currently do. They didn't put camera's at lights that took pictures of license plates and mailed them a $100+ ticket at first. It's a matter of what is possible.

More like $500
 

Spooony

2[H]4U
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Like they want to hear my snoring before wiping out a family or 2 on the freeway HA!
 

Shalafi

Fully [H]
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Shoving a black box up the Congresspeople's ass would definitely help enhance their experience of what it's like to be one of us, and not just that, we could tune into it, like a radio or television channel, and then see what they see, and hear what they hear.

That'd be far more interesting, they should pass a law that makes that happen.
 

TakeN0Prisoners

Weaksauce
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Feb 14, 2011
Messages
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While it is true that I'm not allowed to speed now. It means I can't try and get away with it anymore if this shows up.
 

Spooony

2[H]4U
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While it is true that I'm not allowed to speed now. It means I can't try and get away with it anymore if this shows up.

its a cockpit recorder. How the fuck are a cockpit recorder going to tell them your speeding? Unless you do what the pilots do and do a pre flight routine and starting your engines up while reading it 10 20 30 40 50 60 I'm speeding!!!!! 70 80 .........................
 

TakeN0Prisoners

Weaksauce
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Feb 14, 2011
Messages
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This is just an extension of what already is being done. Your not allowed to speed so this is just a more effective way of enforcing speeding laws. Although one loophole is you can say you were not going 75 in a 55. You were going 75 on private property where there are no speed limits.
 

m_isom

Limp Gawd
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Oct 27, 2006
Messages
365
I dont think this is bad thing.
Some cars already have this and is being used in the case of accidents.
As in this case:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Man-on-trial-for-traffic-deaths-of-Plano-family--101576633.html"Police testified that the crash data recorder showed the Pontiac had its accelerator pushed to the floor. Its speed was recorded at 98 mph just before the air bags deployed."

If they didnt have that information, then they wouldn't have been able to convict this man for killing a family because he was speeding, and not because the breaks failed....

All the people talking about using it to give tickets for speeding, it's pretty clear that is not how it is going to be used INITIALY.

Fixed it for you...
See seat belt violations, used to be they could give you a ticket for not wearing the belt if they stopped you for another offense, now they can stop you just for the belt.
 

-PK-

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
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Just hook the black box up to google maps and send me a bill of $1/minute I'm driving over the speed limit. Better yet, just e-transfer it from my bank account, we gotta save the trees.
 

wizdum

[H]ard|Gawd
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The box isn't entirely necessary, accident reconstruction can get very accurate based solely on skids and damage done to the car. With the skid information alone, you can already calculate the initial speeds of any involved vehicle(s) with around 10% error. No skids means driver error and it's prosecution time.

That happened to my friend. He got t-boned in an intersection, the woman that hit him tried to say that he pulled out in front of her, but the cop looked at the 50' of skid marks she left on a road with a 25mph speed limit and determined that she was at fault.
 

DigitalisAkujin

Limp Gawd
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Aug 8, 2004
Messages
178
/flame suit on
That black-box could have proved I was at 0mph and breaks depressed when I was hit. As long as its only used during accidents it might not be that bad.


Want proof of speed? Use GPS.
Blackbox = No more speeding + increased traffic due to that.
 

pothb

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Messages
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You are so close minded it's amazing, really. Moronic, actually. :rolleyes:

It's never a matter of what they currently do. They didn't put camera's at lights that took pictures of license plates and mailed them a $100+ ticket at first. It's a matter of what is possible.

Truer words will never be spoken.

It's not what it's for, but what it will be for. As seeing as how so many legislation have escalated in just that fashion, I don't doubt it one bit.
 

-PK-

[H]ard|Gawd
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(The American people would never allow a box like this to relay secret information, anyway.)

They'll just call it Liberty Protection Act of 2012 and it will get rubber stamped without reading the contents.
 

nutzo

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That black-box could have proved I was at 0mph and breaks depressed when I was hit. As long as its only used during accidents it might not be that bad.

As long as access is only allowed with your consent, then I wouldn't have a problem with this. If they can force you to provide access to this information, then they are violating your rights against self incrimination.
 

nutzo

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You SEVERELY underestimate the complacency of the american people.

Concerning the comment of we won't know much about it, Steve you really underestimate the car enthusiast community. I promise you it would be days before it was hacked and likely even less then that before many if not most car enthusiasts removed it entirely.

By law it will be encrypted and integrated directly with the cars control systems, making hacking dificulte at best.
 

pothb

Supreme [H]ardness
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As long as access is only allowed with your consent, then I wouldn't have a problem with this. If they can force you to provide access to this information, then they are violating your rights against self incrimination.

Yea.... but it won't happen that way, there will be a court order or some probable cause that will allow them to get it, if not immediately after this is common place, then somewhere down the road.
 

dyzophoria

Gawd
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
946
what's wrong with having something like it?, I think its useful imo, of course just let it store things needed, just like in a plane, only the important parameters are there, speed, what was the accelerator at (0-100%), etc, since it will be used for crashes, it should, just over write data every 10 mins or less I guess, wan't it to be hack proof?, keep improving on the design and security at most, heck if we all believe that lets us not do this cause it can be just hacked, then we should just have given everything electronic-related. problems are to be solved. not abandoned imo

devices like these could have saved me especially on insurance problems during that freak accident of mine,lol

you can flame me but really, if you bring yourself out of the conspiracy git for a second and focus on the good this will bring, I think this will have a good outcome, just double focus on how to make it work as it is suppose too
 

computerpro3

LightningRod
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
8,705
This is just an extension of what already is being done. Your not allowed to speed so this is just a more effective way of enforcing speeding laws. Although one loophole is you can say you were not going 75 in a 55. You were going 75 on private property where there are no speed limits.

But the thing is, nobody actually goes the speed limit.

People don't follow ridiculous laws, and generally the government has always turned a blind eye to it. They set the speed limits artificially low to generate revenue, and since everyone goes 15mph over anyway and only a few of us get caught, everyone is happy. Most people speed without consequence and the government gets revenue from those that do get caught.

Now, however, they are getting more greedy for revenue. If they come up with systems to 100% enforce the law, one of two things will happen. Either people will riot or we will officially be so far down the slippery slope that there is no turning back.

I'm not a sensationalist, but to see people ceding this amount of control and power to the government is extremely telling. I am not prepared to do this, and will actively resist to the best of my capability - including forcibly disabling such devices regardless of penalty.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
562
Now what is the Big Brother up to?? Are those red 5mph battery-driven sidewalk scooters gonna be next?
 

mohammedtaha

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Messages
3,648
I dont think this is bad thing.
Some cars already have this and is being used in the case of accidents.
As in this case:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Man-on-trial-for-traffic-deaths-of-Plano-family--101576633.html"Police testified that the crash data recorder showed the Pontiac had its accelerator pushed to the floor. Its speed was recorded at 98 mph just before the air bags deployed."

If they didnt have that information, then they wouldn't have been able to convict this man for killing a family because he was speeding, and not because the breaks failed....

All the people talking about using it to give tickets for speeding, it's pretty clear that is not how it is going to be used.

What he said ... most new cars have them and I don't see what the problem is ... my car has it and I have not yet received a fine for over speeding.

I don't understand how all of you are all assuming that it will be misused. It's a perfect way to get out of an accident if it's not your fault since the proof is in the box. We have it on planes, why can't we have it on cars where the number of deaths is a LOT higher?
 
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