BFG long in the tooth for customer "wants"

T

Trepidati0n

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
9,269
eVGA
  • + lifetime warranty
  • + after market coolers w/o voiding warranty as long as no physical damage
  • + OC'ing w/o void warranty
  • + higher stock OC than BFG

XFX
  • + lifetime warranty
  • + after market coolers w/o voiding warranty as long as no physical damage
  • - Warranty voided if OC beyond stock settings
  • + higher stock OC than BFG

BFG
  • + lifetime warranty
  • - voided warranty if after market HS used
  • - Warranty voided if OC beyond stock settings
  • - lower stock OC than XFX/eVGA

I am hoping that the people at BFG see this obvious issue and are already working on it. Come on BFG, we need you to pony up to the table. Love you guys greatly...but my $$$ will be going to the other two unless there is some sort of compromise. In today's world why would I want to give you my financial resources for less features than your competitors.

Would you be willing to respond in this open forum to discuss this issue with your enthusiasts?

-tReP
 
eVGA requires that it is the original purchaser. BFG doesn't care who sends in the card needing repair. The BFG guru around here has also stated that they don't care whether you have changed out the HSF as long as that isn't what caused the failure.
 
hmm when i asked bfg if changing the hs voided the warranty they said ABSOLUTELY :mad:
 
if you screw up installing a new cooler, put the other one on...and send it back
 
Trepidati0n said:
eVGA
  • + lifetime warranty
  • + after market coolers w/o voiding warranty as long as no physical damage
  • + OC'ing w/o void warranty
  • + higher stock OC than BFG

XFX
  • + lifetime warranty
  • + after market coolers w/o voiding warranty as long as no physical damage
  • - Warranty voided if OC beyond stock settings
  • + higher stock OC than BFG

BFG
  • + lifetime warranty
  • - voided warranty if after market HS used
  • - Warranty voided if OC beyond stock settings
  • - lower stock OC than XFX/eVGA

I am hoping that the people at BFG see this obvious issue and are already working on it. Come on BFG, we need you to pony up to the table. Love you guys greatly...but my $$$ will be going to the other two unless there is some sort of compromise. In today's world why would I want to give you my financial resources for less features than your competitors.

Would you be willing to respond in this open forum to discuss this issue with your enthusiasts?

-tReP
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt that you can actually change coolers on the other brands of cards without voiding the warranty. Until I see it on paper, or from the manufacturer I believe it does for everyone. Moddifiying your hardware in any way, for pretty much anything in any industry voids the warranty. I don't see why this would be any different.

As far as going past the stock OC, they wouldn't know. Especially since its done in software. Until the hardware starts recording your settings, they have no way of knowing. Unless you flash the BIOS with another BIOS.

In fact I went out and found the details of XFX's warranty. It states:

XFX is excited to announce another industry first: The XFX Double Lifetime Warranty! Now you—and your card’s next owner—are both covered by the XFX “shield” of protection. Should something go wrong with your Series 6 or greater Graphics Card, and you’ve registered the card with us online, we’ll cover the cost of repair and service—absolutely free! And, should you sell or transfer ownership of the card, the same service applies to the next owner, as long as they register the card with us online.

Now, it’s all fairly simple, but here are the Double Lifetime Warranty specifics:

"The XFX Double Lifetime Warranty goes into effect once the initial purchaser (owner #1) registers the product with us on www.xfxforce.com. At that time, XFX promises that the graphics card purchased (Product) will remain free from any defects in material or workmanship for the lifetime of the Product, as long as the Product is used properly.
“Proper Usage” is defined as normal wear and tear. Should the Product be modified or damaged as the result of overclocking, tampering, alteration, misuse, abuse, power supply, power application, or repair by other than XFX the warranty is VOID.
Other situations that VOID the warranty include:
Damage to the card upon installation
Damage caused by software or hardware incompatibility or by motherboard incompatibility (if other than XFX software or hardware).
Was not operated in accordance with XFX specifications, instructions or technical support directions.
Physical damage to the PCB, GPU or components
Additionally, third party products used in tandem with this Product are not covered by this warranty.
Finally, Points 1-4 also apply to the Product's second owner (owner #2). In order to be covered by the warranty, the second owner will have to register the Product with us online at www.xfxforce.com just as the original owner did.
If the original owner did not properly register the Product with XFX, the warranty is VOID for both the original owner and the secondary owner.
If the original owner did properly register the Product with XFX, but the secondary owner did not, the warranty is VOID for the secondary owner.
What the XFX Double Lifetime Warranty covers:

The XFX Double Lifetime Warranty covers only the repair of a Series 6 or Series 7 Graphics Card. XFX will repair or replace the Product to bring it to a state that is free of defects in material or workmanship (no refunds). XFX makes no other warranty, express or implied. Purchaser (owner #1 or owner #2) pays for shipping to XFX.
Secondary owners (owner #2) are subject to parts availability and may incur a charge for the cost of the part**. Service and repair remains free of charge.
Additionally, XFX reserves the right to inspect and verify the defects of the Product(s) that are returned.
XFX's liability under the Double Lifetime Warranty is limited to the repair, or, at XFX's discretion, the replacement of the portion(s) of the Product that are found to be defective in material or workmanship. The Double Lifetime Warranty does not apply to software components.

To request a Double Lifetime Warranty repair, simply request for an RMA. By shipping the Product to XFX, you assume the risk of loss in transit. Products returned to XFX become the sole property of XFX during the assessment and repair/replacement process.

XFX reserves the right to claim shipping fees as well as a service charge* from the purchaser (owner #1 or #2) for any incomplete or modified Product that is returned and that requires repair or replacement, or when the Purchaser (owner #1 or #2) is not entitled to any coverage under the XFX Double Lifetime Warranty.

Valid only to purchases made in North America (USA or Canada).

* Service charge is variable based upon actual material costs to repair or replace missing or modified parts to return them to original factory condition.
** Actual cost of part(s) will be determined upon receipt and inspection of the returned card."

Modified is the key word gentlemen. That means after market coolers. I would bet eVGA is the same. I've noticed alot of people are saying all kinds of crap about warranties lately on video cards. You really should check your facts before telling people they can overclock their cards, and if they get damaged doing it, company X will cover it. When they will not.

They will *ALWAYS* attribute failure of a card to overclocking or something you did if possible. So don't kid yourself about anything you think or feel is implied by any warranty.
 
For most companies, you void your warranty if you change the speeds of the card AT ALL, including overclocking and underclocking.

The only reason I could possibly see them covering a different heatsink than the original is if you bought/got the heatsink from the same company.
 
Sir Fragalot, many people have emailed, rmaed, asked xfx if installing a 3rd party cooler voids the warrenty and they all say no, contradicting what they have on their site

http://evga.com/support/lifetime/

EVGA allows aftermarket coolers as long as theres no physical damage
 
AznAnarchy99 said:
Sir Fragalot, many people have emailed, rmaed, asked xfx if installing a 3rd party cooler voids the warrenty and they all say no, contradicting what they have on their site

http://evga.com/support/lifetime/

EVGA allows aftermarket coolers as long as theres no physical damage
Click to expand...

As I work as a service tech and deal with company warranties all the time, I can tell you this. Don't trust anyone you get on the phone and certainly not some damn sales guy. The FACT is I've heard salesman tell potential customers all kinds of BS in order to make a sale. Do not make the mistake of believing them. The simple truth of the matter is that these companies, (XFX is a perfect example) have put the terms and conditions of the warranty as I have it quoted above. That is all they are legally bound to do. What weight words carry and what written and published text carries is a completely different matter.

Mark my words, people subscribe to this BS that these people on the internet are telling you and someone is going to get burned on the warranty when they replace a cooling solution, or tell tech support they overclocked the piss out of it and killed it. Don't think that because you spent $600 on a video card, that your entitled to more than what the warranty states or what the website states your entitled to.

Of course if you keep your mouth shut and don't tell the company you OC'ed the card, and you can re-install the factory cooling solution without damaging the card, you are more than likely going to be able to get it to pass any kind of check they might do during an RMA proceedure. It's your money, but if there is one thing I've learned is that unless you see it in writing its not true.

Again I point out that no where on eVGA's site does it explicitly say that you may change the cooling solution and you'll be covered. Nothing of the sort is implied or mentioned. They mention a service charge to return the card to stock. That hardly implies that they'll cover squat if you change the damn card. Don't believe anyone who's goal is to try and sell you on their companies products. I don't even care if these companies have done it for people in the past. In those cases you are dealing with a person that made it happen, until I see it in written form from the companies in question, its not legally binding.
 
usually from personal experience, i rarely overclock high end cards anymore unless they have proven headroom like the 7800s. Performance gain is very minimal but whenever i RMA something, very little has anyone asked me if ive overclocked, changed anything. They just give me the RMA info and send it in. Basically the only thing i would do to my card is put an aftermarket cooler if its too loud, but since ive had 4 tornados for so long, anything under 50db is silent to me.

But your right, risking $600s for 2 fps gain is not worth it at all.
 
AznAnarchy99 said:
usually from personal experience, i rarely overclock high end cards anymore unless they have proven headroom like the 7800s. Performance gain is very minimal but whenever i RMA something, very little has anyone asked me if ive overclocked, changed anything. They just give me the RMA info and send it in. Basically the only thing i would do to my card is put an aftermarket cooler if its too loud, but since ive had 4 tornados for so long, anything under 50db is silent to me.

But your right, risking $600s for 2 fps gain is not worth it at all.
Click to expand...

That's not to say I don't overclock and don't change my cooling solutions out. I certainly have and might do again depending on if the stock cooling meets my needs on a given card. However, I have no expectation for a manufacturer to cover the part under warranty if I've changed things. I'll send the part to them, looking as factory perfect as I can get it and hope for the best. If they call me out on it and say, "Hey you voided your warranty" I'll tell them "ok, it was worth a shot", then go on about life. I'll buy another card and start again.

This is just like when people found out that lifetime warranty doesn't mean that you can RMA the card back to the manufacturer in 90 years from the date of purchase, because you happen to still be alive and want your card fixed. In case some people haven't figured it out yet marketting people are sneaky as hell and aren't to be trusted.
 
HeavyH20 said:
I put the challenge to eVGA. I thought OC damage was physical damage. They say it is not. Here is the eVGA thread.

eVGA Warranty - the real deal
Click to expand...

I think that means, as long as you did not physically damage the card by OC'ing it, cracking a chip or bursting caps, they'll cover it. However, that still does not cover changing the cooling solution. It also doesn't cover the topic of BIOS and voltage adjustments. All of which should NOT be covered.

Again I point this out.

From eVGA tech support.

"Anytime you run your video card out of spec, or beyond its default specs, you run the risk of physically damaging the component(s). It is this type of damage that will void your opportunity for an RMA"

What does this tell you? You OC your card too much and fry it, eVGA will not honor the warranty. And there is no reason they should if you broke it.
 
AznAnarchy99 said:
Sir Fragalot, many people have emailed, rmaed, asked xfx if installing a 3rd party cooler voids the warrenty and they all say no, contradicting what they have on their site

http://evga.com/support/lifetime/
Click to expand...



You better go with what is in writing...you can't go by what some person on the phone says...you might be talking to a janitor for all you know...


That being said, if you overclock or modify the card, you better not plan on warrantry covering it when you blow it up....period. There are ways to tell about some things, even down to miniscule tool marks from screwdrivers, etc.

Stop screwing others by RMA'ing parts that YOU caused to break, you just make prices higher for all of us in the long run. Or pay them a nominal charge to fix it if possible. The companies SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR DAMAGE CAUSED BY SOMETHING YOU DID....those things are rated for the speeds it came with, anything you do beyond that, is YOUR responsibility...
 
TheRapture said:
You better go with what is in writing...you can't go by what some person on the phone says...you might be talking to a janitor for all you know...
Click to expand...

And that is precisely my point. What is written is all that a company is legally required to do by law.
 
you better go with what is in writing...you can't go by what some person on the phone says...you might be talking to a janitor for all you know...
Click to expand...

You can just picture a janitor walking by a pay phone-
<phone rings>
Janitor Bill: Hello?
You: Hi, this is 3dview co. right?
Janitor Bill: Yup, how can I help you?
You: Does your warrenty for video cards allow for high overclocking in which your putting the GPU core at risk and possibly destroying other components as well as a burning out other pc parts?
Janitor Bill: uh, um, sure...why not!
You: Thanks! You were so helpful. You just made my decision on buying this $600 card!


Also, say you have a 7800GTX's 490Mhz core. Does OCing it another 10Mhz make a difference, or does every Mhz count becuase its already OCed to 490? Becuase If I were to OC it to 500 from 490, that shouldnt be too much of a jump, no?
 
Again I point this out.

From eVGA tech support.

"Anytime you run your video card out of spec, or beyond its default specs, you run the risk of physically damaging the component(s). It is this type of damage that will void your opportunity for an RMA"

What does this tell you? You OC your card too much and fry it, eVGA will not honor the warranty. And there is no reason they should if you broke it.
Click to expand...

Yes, to be fair, that quote I used was from a post by eVGA tech support before the policy change June 25. But, strange as it may seem, they will cover their card if:

1) You OC it
2) You replace the stock heatsink with one of their heatsinks - I have seen some claims that they will cover any heatsink, but I have not seen that verified by eVGA
3) You flash the card and it fails
4) You make no physical changes to the card like soldering on a POT for voltage adjustments
5) You did not use the card as a makeshift hammer or screwdriver
 
DangerIsGo said:
You can just picture a janitor walking by a pay phone-
<phone rings>
Janitor Bill: Hello?
You: Hi, this is 3dview co. right?
Janitor Bill: Yup, how can I help you?
You: Does your warrenty for video cards allow for high overclocking in which your putting the GPU core at risk and possibly destroying other components as well as a burning out other pc parts?
Janitor Bill: uh, um, sure...why not!
You: Thanks! You were so helpful. You just made my decision on buying this $600 card!
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^^^
:D :D :D
 
peleejosh said:
EVGA has a great support staff, from my experience.
Click to expand...

They have probably the best support I have dealt with in a LONG time. Props to them for giving me everything I could have asked for with my 7800.
 
I doubt BFG will sit around and let themselves be one upped like this.

Expect them to revise their warranty soon.

I'm suprised one of their REPs hasn't mentioned something in this thread already.

Don't count them out is all I'm saying.

I just hope their new warranty doesn't apply to cards sold after the revision only. I hate it when the previous buyers are left in the cold.

I plan on getting a 7800 soon and would like BFG to be my BEST option once again.
 
I remember some guy on these forums getting an email from the president or vice president of EVGA saying that he could overclock it all he wanted or replace the cooler with any 3rd party cooler and still not void the warranty
 
Joe Darwin from eVGA posted on this forum himself that you can use any 3rd party cooling device and basically have your way with the cards and not void the warranty, so long as you don't cause physical damage to the core or any of the components on the card.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
I think that means, as long as you did not physically damage the card by OC'ing it, cracking a chip or bursting caps, they'll cover it. However, that still does not cover changing the cooling solution. It also doesn't cover the topic of BIOS and voltage adjustments. All of which should NOT be covered.

Again I point this out.

From eVGA tech support.

"Anytime you run your video card out of spec, or beyond its default specs, you run the risk of physically damaging the component(s). It is this type of damage that will void your opportunity for an RMA"

What does this tell you? You OC your card too much and fry it, eVGA will not honor the warranty. And there is no reason they should if you broke it.
Click to expand...


except the Director of Tech Mkt who posts here said very straight forward:

Hello Everyone,

EVGA’s Lifetime Warranty covers the graphics card so long as you don’t physically damage the GPU, PCB or Components.

The addition of 3rd party coolers or water blocks will not void the warranty.

Please remember that if you should need to RMA your product you will be required to put the original cooling solution on the product.

Joe Darwin
[email protected]
EVGA
__________________
Click to expand...

From a couple others posts he seems to be very knowlagable and helpful. Not just out to sell his products and saying what ever he can to do so.
 
If it isn't listed in the warranty it means jack. This is afterall America land of the lawsuit and lawyers. I don't care if the CEO engraves it on their forehead. Put it in the warranty.
 
kcthebrewer said:
If it isn't listed in the warranty it means jack. This is afterall America land of the lawsuit and lawyers. I don't care if the CEO engraves it on their forehead. Put it in the warranty.
Click to expand...

Ding Ding Ding.....

All these posts trying to state that the warranty will not be void, by relating to websites and posts on the forum = TO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

You damage the card by running it out of spec, and they believe you are, you cry foul. What are you going to do? Try to hire a lawyer to fight a case over a 600 dollar video card, even though Company X has their warranty terms and conditions in the box, on the box, and on the website stating if you run the card out of spec you void your warranty.

I don't expect any of these companies to pay for my mistakes, and neither should you. Don't buy into the marketing hype, people are taking this at face value, and not reading between the lines, which is what they have in black and white. Sure you can OC it, and it will be warrantied, until YOU damage it by ocing it too hard. Then you are SOL no matter what company you have....

As far as BFG goes, I see no reason on why they should change their current policy, perhaps the O/C numbers could be caught it, but at least on the other aspects they are not trying to trick consumers into false leads. You should buy what you want and what is the best deal to you, but I would NOT EVER EVER, buy a card based on a warranty, that you believe will pay for your fuck-ups, because trust me, its not going to happen everytime.
 
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