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Newegg trying to step up? Or trying to cover their asses?
The latter id say
Gigabyte just doesn't get it. No one wants these power supplies. The replacements are just as worthless as the originals. Gigabyte and shitty power supplies will forever be ingrained in the memory of anyone that's read these articles. The longer it drags on the larger the pool becomes.
Except, that as i have already said, Gigabyte clearly stated in their press release (in direct response to this issue)that OPP IS an industry standard (See post #226). Ill even include the link
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Joy, just another reason to ridicule Gigabyte. Hahaha they just cant get out of their own way!
Apparently a healthy dose of skepticism should be taken when dealing with all power supply manufacturers? When it comes to standards and features?
BTW i wasn't trying to start a debate with you. Why would i? I was going off of the seemingly honest information provided by a company i assumed had no reason to lie. Their lying about something they are supposed to be experts in made/makes no sense. Unless of course they just couldn't be bothered to understand what they are building? I don't know which is worse.
Nope, no debate. I was seeking an answer to a question, nothing more. Had you given this explanation the first time i asked it would have saved me a ton of one thumb typing!
It's easy. If you have a bad run of components, you can have problems and that's not an issue with UL. CE TUV cetera. Also. All of those standards let things fail. It's just what happens when they fail. So yes, they can do what everyone is incorrectly calling explode and still be inside regulations.If Gigabyte PSU is exploding, I wonder how can their units still pass all the safety regulatory bodies like UL, CE, TUV, or what not? Ok they changed to cheaper components after production but still if it does affect the product safety, shouldn't Gigabyte resubmit the PSU for another round of safety check? Does this exploding pose a danger? Perhaps UL, CE, TUV etc needs to start investigating this.
Been digging around, UL uses IEC standards and procedures for their tests. For power supplies IEC 62368-1 "Audio/video, information and communication technology equipment - Part 1: Safety requirements" looks to be the best fit and Bingo. Overcurrent protection requirements, Over temperature protection, Short, Shock, accessibility. Anyways I can only look at the table of contents since I don't own the Standard which cost $350 for a pdf and more for a hardback. It lists how to test such as a clogged fan etc.
I have a copy.
Not exactly, the ATX12v Design Guide includes the safety items you mention.
Thanks.
So, that is sort of a weird thing. For prebuilt systems, yes. For individual components that are meant to be integrated into a system the process is...a bit different.
That is, honestly, not economically possible. At a minimum that would require me to have 3 units and, for statistical purposes, more like 10 units. To do just my base set of tests right now takes me a little over 20 hours per unit. So, 3 units would take me 60 hours and 10 units would take 200 hours. Who is going to pay me my going rate for 200 hours of work on just the base set of tests let alone what would be at least another 20-40 hours per unit to do all the other tests you want? Seriously, if it was 60 hours per unit then times 10 units that would be 600 hours of work. That review is going to cost $ thousands of dollars in work time and working around my full time job take about 40 weeks (15 hours a week on top of my 60 hour a week job) to do one power supply. So, I could do everything you want.....on about 1 power supply a year.
You just want to be so very accurate, lol, very nice to hear. I really don't think it would take long for these test and if 3 or more samples are needed for statistics then you would have to do that now, at least for failed PS. If they pass, they pass and no need to go further, if they fail something for safety that should be a note and safety is hugely important. OT and Short protection is fire protection. Normally a component is supposed to contain any flammable component liquid inside itself. Of course you do this professionally and definitely know more on that than I. Just PS reviews in general leave out a hell a lot of important things. In Gigabyte case here, this could have been caught last year for example and not hundreds if not thousands of folks suffering through with burnt components, lost time etc. with a crappy power supply. It would have been caught, manufacturers would also up their game to ensure these safety items actually do work as well. If they are never tested, manufacturers can get sloppy to point of being dangerous. A great review process would find these issues in other words.
How would you rate MEIC as an oem overall? Should they be avoided?
Well, it is my background. That is why Kyle hired me initially.
It really does. Between time to program the tests, run the test, export the data, analyze the data, prepare the data for presentation so people can understand it (and they still don't) takes a lot of time.
I do multipl units for any failed unit. If you count raw units I have tested I am still barely at break even becuase of failed units taking up so much of my time versus passing units. So, each time I fail a unit that was 2, or 3 ,or 4, or 5 units I tested. Add those up versus the ones that passed and I get stuck at break even after almost 15 years of doing this.
Well, that depends on what you are certifying and what "itself" is. This is a bit like Bill Clinton and what is the definition of Is "is".
We do. The thing is, it is a multifactorial reason for it. 1) Cost. It is already hella expensive to do this even close to right. 2) Most people don't care. Which means they don't read....which means we don't get ad dollars...which means we can't pay the bills. 3) When I started just being able to do what the label said was rare. As time has progressed and we have put more spotlight on things some things have gotten better. But, we have to balance what we can test, what we can defend, and what we can get people to read against what we could do. As more things have gotten better we have added tests over the years. We used to not test Transient Load response. After a while we had the ability through funding to advance the testing methodology. So, I worked with Nautilus and we developed the Transient Load Tester (shout out to Nautilus still!). If the funding allows us to advance the testing into more areas we can....but......the site owners, the reviewers, and the editors can't work for free. We have to find a way to compensate our time. But, people like to block ads or go to Youtube where this content does not place in searches well. So, we sit where we sit. If you guys really want to see us do this stuff there are a few of us who can (I mentioned Lee at PcPer, Oklohoma_Wolf/Jeremy at JG.com, me at TheFPSReview because of Kyle Bennett here at [H]ardOCP/HardForum's generous support in equipment, etc) but the money is not there right now to support it beyond what we do. Most people would rather watch the "Facebook" sensationalist (I won't call it journalism) "presentation" of GN who doesn't know what they are doing rather than the "old timers" who do. Yeah, you can argue we don't evolve with the times but, honestly, unless it is a flaming dumpster fire this stuff is not interesting to people except about 5 seconds before they buy and they google a review. So, the money to support the work is not there to expand to more expensive than what we do. Honestly, if you had to start from scratch today to do PSU reviews you would be out of business in less than a month. The equipment alone would sink you. Then the contractor cost would sink you. Then the pressure from the vendors would sink you. It is a lose, lose, lose situation UNLESS you are already a known commodity. THen you can barely make it by like those of us who are still left doing are barely floating by.
Thanks for all the details here and time as well. If it can't be reasonably done with the current assets plus funds I definitely understand, yes your reviews frankly are the best I've have the pleasure to read. At one point every power supply I owned was on your good side list and only one had an issue in shutting down (oh that OPP protection) below max power (Seasonic Focus 850fx Gold), I am using it driving two Vega FE's in a mining rig at about 450w-500w and is working fine, thought about sending it in but it is working for what I need at the present time. Thanks for all the great responses.
Thanks
If offering an opinion on a public forum could be considered libel we all would be in deep trouble.
I would look at it two ways, if a reviewer comes in with an apparent bias, the reader or viewer may think the results where skewed and may or would not trust the review or even bother with it -> keeping neutral and being professional earns reputation, noteworthiness and so on. Second side is giving free samples for a professional, one known to be professional and calls it like it is means to the company that if they are confident in their product and the professional reviewer does his/her job flawlessly and is well respected in the community they will get a very good overall awareness for their kickass product. Plus if they refuse to sample the professional reviewer it tells folks they do not have a good product and too chicken shit to have it reviewed by someone that will show it how it is. HardOCP reviews to me was on that level and you saw samples given to them because of that reason. ASUS gave samples to HardOCP, sometimes truckloads and people really noted ASUS had very high confidence in their products. While let say ASRock did not sample, anything, which to many spoke loudly about what they thought of their own products. HardOCP still reviewed payed for samples and showed ASRock bad but also good reviews as well since the standard did not change and the reviews where consistently top notch. The PSU reviews pushed the testing to the next level and lead others to have to advance as well to be considered professional.
How many PSU's did GN buy again?
I don't know, but it seems people really do care what GN is reporting with Gigabyte. We are here after all.
You do know there was a point when people who operated websites and did journalism were considered unprofessional and irrelevant. The real pros worked for newspapers and magazines. This is just video that killed the radio star, or the YouTuber killed the website.
This is why I like Gamers Nexus. They did exactly that and that's why people love them for it.
You wonder why not many people pay attention to your reviews?
Ask yourself these if your would:
If that was their goal they wouldn't have sat on it for 5 months while trying to get gigabyte to do something about it behind the scenes. I view it the same as someone that finds a zero day exploit and finally goes public with it after reporting it and getting blown off for months.
I am not GN, so you are asking the wrong person. PSU's cost though is insignificant in the context of doing a PSU review. It is like what I tell people looking to buy a horse if you are trying to figure out paying the purchase price you can not afford to own a horse.
About one power supply. There are not 7 page threads about every power supply that comes out. That is the point. And, it is a silly argument for you to try to make when I have seen the backend for 15 years on the numbers. Power supply reviews don't usually generate huge day 1 impressions like a new GPU or CPU. They numbers take time to aggregate. The one good side is there are very few of us who do the work and power supplies stay relevant for longer so a 3 or 4 year old article will still get pulled by someone searching out a new purchase.
I would not be on year 15 if people didn't pay attention to my reviews.
They most definitely are not good PSUs.
Not worried about free samples. From a cost perspective to produce a review the power supply cost is irrelevant.
Ok.
Why? Because GN says so?
