Bethesda is Asking for Essays in Ban Appeals

AlphaAtlas

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Polygon reports that Bethesda is wrongfully banning some players in Fallout 76. Third party programs like Reshade, various overlays, and capture/streaming programs may be to blame, but that's not exactly new, as similar 3rd party programs have triggered cheat detection algorithms in other games before. But what makes these bans particularly interesting is the responses Bethesda support is giving in ban appeal emails. The company is allegedly asking users to write essays to get their accounts back.

One YouTuber posted his correspondence here.

"If you would like to appeal this account closure, we would be willing to accept an essay on 'Why the use of third-party cheat software is detrimental to an online game community,' for our management team to review,' the support email reads. That's a comically strange way to give players a chance to overturn their bans, but Bethesda has been known to be cheeky in the past. As far as receipts go, there are screenshots of identical support emails included in the video, which suggest that these users may not be joking around... We've reached out Bethesda for further confirmation and will update accordingly.
 

AlphaAtlas

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If the 3rd party software thing is true, it's just further evidence that Bethesda is developing FO76 is a vacuum... Other MP games have dealt with ReShade and other overlays for ages, and Bethesda has plenty of money for Battleye or something similar.
 

dgz

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cppfVpg.png
 

ir0nw0lf

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This is when someone needs to come up with a copy-pasta essay that everyone can send to Bethesda. See if anyone there notices dozens/hundreds (?) of the exact same essay. :p
 

viper1152012

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If they were hacking then GR8 make them write an essay on why they are suck8ng and need an easy button that ruins it for everyone else....... That is all
 

The Mad Atheist

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I can understand if it was foe cheaters, but if other non-cheating apps tripped the ban, then they need to fix their software.
 

SomeoneElse

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The two guys that got banned because they have cheat engine on their PC deserve the ban....i don't get the whole idea of third party cheating software. If it was just mods then there is something definitely wrong but to openly admit you cheat in other games, I have no sympathy.
Beside the fact that you bought Fallout76 in the first place. ;)
 
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The two guys that got banned because they have cheat engine on their PC deserve the ban....i don't get the whole idea of third party cheating software. If it was just mods then there is something definitely wrong but to openly admit you cheat in other games, I have no sympathy.
Beside the fact that you bought Fallout76 in the first place. ;)
the problem though is, did they actually use cheatengine for FO76? if not, then it doesnt matter what anyones opinion is, you (nor bethesda) dont get to be the world police of things you dont like. if they ARE? okay, ban em. if you choose to make them do the truffleshuffle publicly while wearing a hula skirt and a bojack horseman mask, then thats your gig and your platform...
 

SomeoneElse

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the problem though is, did they actually use cheatengine for FO76? if not, then it doesnt matter what anyones opinion is, you (nor bethesda) dont get to be the world police of things you dont like. if they ARE? okay, ban em. if you choose to make them do the truffleshuffle publicly while wearing a hula skirt and a bojack horseman mask, then thats your gig and your platform...
The only opinion here that matters, actually, is Bethesda's and they chose to ban . If they want to leave it that way they can.
All I said I have no sympathy for anyone who gets banned when they openly admit they cheat in other games with that software. By definition its not a false positive. If they used the software in fallout76 or not you can only take their word for it. They have to convince the developer of the game to release the ban, its that simple.
 

benedict

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The only opinion here that matters, actually, is Bethesda's and they chose to ban . If they want to leave it that way they can.
All I said I have no sympathy for anyone who gets banned when they openly admit they cheat in other games with that software. By definition its not a false positive. If they used the software in fallout76 or not you can only take their word for it. They have to convince the developer of the game to release the ban, its that simple.
Unless someone gets really pissed and either sues them for fraud or makes plenty of noise online and generates lots of negative press about the developer. Looking at how incompetent that company seems recently I doubt their auto-banning software is any better.
 
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This is going to be hilarious. Bethesda has outsourced academic argument to the playerbase.

This will probably make them look like idiots, especially those banned for non legit reasons, I still remember getting a ban in Aion for using a Logitech g13 game pad keyboard, as they apparently considered that cheating, and me stating back" apparently avoiding Carpal Tunnel is cheating......." They lifted the ban but the, Why do you need that? Rhetoric was interesting. Cheating, talk to Blizzard they don't want you using software from Logitech and Razer pogramming Macros, but its competely fair for a warrior/rogue/feral druid to program a macro as an "I win" button as long as it's with the in game macro system.

I will say some of the crap is cheating like Asus Radar that puts visual ques for multidirectional sound, but meh once you figure out tey are using it it's easy to gang up on them setting traps.
 
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The only opinion here that matters, actually, is Bethesda's and they chose to ban . If they want to leave it that way they can.
All I said I have no sympathy for anyone who gets banned when they openly admit they cheat in other games with that software. By definition its not a false positive. If they used the software in fallout76 or not you can only take their word for it. They have to convince the developer of the game to release the ban, its that simple.

Well I mean I use cheat engine for single player games, but just because it's on my system that doesn't mean I actually am using it for something multiplayer and I mean if that is the extent of the anticheat system scanning programs for known cheat software then they may be in the wrong here, I typically use cheat engine for something like Skyrim but without a console as they make it so you don't have to use anything else, as I beat the game legit I either want to test or have fun on another go around without sinking years of my life into something, or explore other story paths like the Witcher 3 to see what would have been different.

I don't understand why people think you are nefarious just because you have something, that is jumping to conclusions, I own a gun doesn't mean I shot someone and maybe just maybe I am not capable of a crime but instead just like target shooting, so by your logic you have zero sympathy for someone using something or having something and being falsly accused? He has a gun so he must have stabbed that person. I mean that is the exact logic you are running on here.
 

Oldmodder

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Hehe that "SP" episode was what i thought too.

In regard to essay, well i cant recall i have ever written one in school, if i did it was just what i could manage in class, home work i stopped doing in the 6 grade or so.

Be - testa better not ask that of me if i played their game.
 

Silverlok

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78
Let's see them be academic when someone's attorney slaps a lawsuit on thier ass.
The threat of legal action seems to be the only thing that gets a rise out of them.
This whole , almost surreal, situation with bethesda and FO76 makes one wonder if it's not some really elaborate performance art experiment disguised as a game release / professional business and their true goal is to train people off of pre-ordering..

It makes one wonder if there are Any adults in the room at FO headquarters.

Looking back at todd's larger than usual lies and all the subsequent content / public relations ( does anyone else remember the days when those were not antagonistic by definition ?) revelations, I can't help but wonder if Bethesda had a cash flow problem and that was the ACTUAL reason FO76 was created.

I mean, look at the unfinished , clearly rushed 'game' itself, and all of Bethseda's actions surrounding almost every facet of distribution ( which can accurately be labeled a dumpster fire ), and it seems to imply panic and desperation just below the water line at Bethseda.

If they don't have a cash flow problem and what we have seen is management acting at their maximum best capacity then stand back because the corium has left containment and is on the move .

Another thought is that the trust erosion around bethseda is almost irreversible at this point and that fact is going to make it damn hard for them NOT to create or license a new game engine moving forward .

I wonder when the pre-orders for SF and ES6 will start.
 

Merc1138

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Another thought is that the trust erosion around bethseda is almost irreversible at this point and that fact is going to make it damn hard for them NOT to create or license a new game engine moving forward .

I wonder when the pre-orders for SF and ES6 will start.

You say that, yet Bethesda already doubled down on using their garbage engine for ES6 and SF weeks ago. Announcing that they're changing engines runs the risk of people likely assuming that years of work on those two games is just down the toilet. I don't think current management at Bethesda is capable of screwing up and effectively ripping off the band-aid at the same time. I doubt it's an upper management thing, but at the very least the game studio management including Todd Howard... they gotta go.
 

Ebernanut

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The only opinion here that matters, actually, is Bethesda's and they chose to ban . If they want to leave it that way they can.
All I said I have no sympathy for anyone who gets banned when they openly admit they cheat in other games with that software. By definition its not a false positive. If they used the software in fallout76 or not you can only take their word for it. They have to convince the developer of the game to release the ban, its that simple.

Banning for a program they have installed but haven't used in relation to the game is just as bad as banning for something like an FPS counter. I've used cheat engine to get past gamebreaking bugs before so it's also not like there isn't a legit use for it, it's basically a roll your own scripthook that can be used live which makes it useful for a number of things. I've also used it to straight up cheat a few times but only in SP games which isn't at all the same thing as cheating in MP and isn't anyone else's business.

Worst of all it shows that they're using the everything including the kitchen sink approach which IME usually means that they're being sloppy and it's probably less likely to catch the actual cheats being used, the proper approach would be to detect the scripthooks being used because anything less is whack a mole at best.
 

Aireoth

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Let me get this straight, they charge full price for a buggy launch (normal), have little real content (sadly also normal), send cheap bags to those that bought the super collectors edition (not as normal), have a steep sale days after launch (haha), dox their own customers, and now ban people for using any tool or mods and make them write an essay to be allowed back...

Wow.
 
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Let me get this straight, they charge full price for a buggy launch (normal), have little real content (sadly also normal), send cheap bags to those that bought the super collectors edition (not as normal), have a steep sale days after launch (haha), dox their own customers, and now ban people for using any tool or mods and make them write an essay to be allowed back...

Wow.

It amazes me people still defend the game and Bethesda. If somebody is happy with the game and they like it, good on them, but I don't see how people can defend Bethesda at this point. I hope that they get their shit together and fix the game right and make it up to all the paying customers and loyal fans of the series and company.

The list of offenses is:

  1. Bait and switch/False advertisement number 1: The game itself. They came out and said how the game was going to have all these improvements to graphics, game engine, and all the way around would be the best thing they have ever released. That was a clear blatant lie.
  2. The beta was for pre-orders only. Players who wanted to beta test the game quickly found out the beta was in small windows and usually during mid day hours when they would be work or not around to play the game. The beta windows were something like 4-8 play sessions over the course of 2 weeks before launch. The beta revealed the game was garbage and broken right out of the gate. People kept their hopes up that since it was a "beta" test the game would be fixed at launch. This clearly did not happen.
  3. FO76 for PC required the Bethesda game launcher. The launcher itself ran like shit, was horrible interface, and buggy. People who downloaded and installed FO76 for the beta found out the launcher deleted the 50GB game from their computer just before the beta slot opened. Bethesda than came out and extended the playtime for the beta because of this issue. One user also found that in the games files for FO76 it checks the disk drive for the Fallout 4 disk partially confirming that FO76 was an asset flip of Fallout 4.
  4. Users who were gifted a beta gift key on PC, people who preordered on PC were able to gift something like 2 beta keys, were unable to uninstall FO76 though the launcher. The launcher gave an error message stating "You do not have access to this game". Since they did not buy the game and were gifted a beta key the launcher restricted permissions and users had to go through control panel or 3rd party un-installation software to get rid of FO76.
  5. The game was buggy as hell. Not just minor bugs, or a couple graphical glitches, it was all the way around broken and rushed out the door to try all the money they could get for the game. The game almost instantly required a patch that was almost the size of the original game itself.
  6. FO76 had no security. There was no encryption so all traffic of in game data could be intercepted and messed with. *I may have worded this wrongly as I understood the premise of it, but don't remember exactly what terms were used*
  7. Players found that with little or no changes at all mods for Fallout 4 worked in FO76. One user reported being able to take the lock pick mod, which just shows you the spot where to put the lock pick to unlock the lock, with no changes could be put into FO76 and worked with no issues at all. Other mods that were not going to affect multiplayer had the same results.
  8. Game had little to no content at all. The "story" lacked any real effort. With the lack of NCP's the game seemed lifeless even for a post apocalyptic world.
  9. No ultra wide monitor support. People had to edit the .ini file to adjust the aspect ratio to stretch it to fit, but interfaces and HUD were stretched and looked awful. Bethesda came out saying they were rolling out a fix for this. FO76 players found out that fix was just Bethesda editing the .ini file as they already had. It took a modder to make a mod to fix it and have true ultra wide support.
  10. Bait and switch/ false advertisement number 2: The canvas bags were not sent out as advertised and customers who spent $200 on the collector edition got a cheap nylon bag instead. When news about this was going around customer support gave excuses such as: we couldn't source the materials for the canvas, we don't plan on doing anything about this, the bag shown in the advertisement was a prototype and not what they planned on shipping. The whole time everything showed and advertised a sturdy looking canvas bag. Bethesda responded to this by saying they think this is the best collectors edition they have ever done and they are proud of it. To try and do some damage control they offered 500 Atoms, the equivalent of $5 US dollars in in-game currency. The 500 Atoms couldn't buy a canvas bag in game funny enough, but was enough to buy some flowers and a door for your base in game. When this didn't sit well and the FTC and Australian government were going to get involved Bethesda broke down and decided they would have the bags they advertised made.
  11. Canvas bag part 2: Customers who purchased the $200 power armor collector edition had to email Bethesda support with proof of purchase and other info to get the canvas bag replacement. Some people had no issues, while others were being denied for not providing valid proof of purchase according to Bethesda support. Those who were denied provided all requested information with picture of a receipt, or in one case the customer sent in a screen shot of his order off the Bethesda website and it was still denied. When people did get the request through they found that it will take 4-6 months to get the bag.
  12. The data leaks with tickets. A bug caused users to see, edit, close other users service tickets. It allowed full access to whatever was provided in those tickets like names, partial credit card numbers, emails, pictures of receipts or other images uploaded, etc.
  13. The game is so bad that it was discounted nearly everywhere by 30 to 70 percent. The average after 2 weeks was 50% off. This discount even included the collectors editions. Bethesda refused to price match it for those who paid full price and basically told them to go pound sand.
  14. Bait and switch number 3: Nuka Dark Rum. Bethesda was selling an $80 bottle of rum that was supposed to come in a bottle that looked like the Nuka Cola bottles. They have had Nuka Cola made by Jones soda in the past and that went well, but with Nuka Dark the problem is yet another bait and switch/ false advertisement with the product. The advertisement and images show what appears to be a glass bottle that is uniquely shaped making it a cool looking bottle for Fallout collectors or bottle collectors. The ship date was set to be in November. The ship date came and went with no information about if the product shipped at all. Days after the ship date customers who ordered the bottle of rum got emails stating it was being delayed by the manufacturer, Bethesda had to outsource this obviously, due to the product not being up to funny enough "Fallout standards". The company making Nuka Dark released a teaser video show casing the bottle and rum. The bottle was a very generic bottle with a plastic case giving it the unique shape, not a unique glass bottle that customers were going to be expecting. There have also been issues with the bottle due to the plastic casing making it hard to pour the rum out without making a huge mess and missing the glass due to design.
  15. Bethesda is refusing nearly any requests for refunds. Per TOS on the Bethesda support if you install the game, not even play it just install the game, your wave your right to a refund. Many people believe that Bethesda went to the launcher and stopped selling on Steam so they could do this with the refund policy since steam actually lets you own it for 2 weeks or play less than 2 hours and still get a refund. By refusing refunds Bethesda is breaking laws in some countries such as in Australia for example. Australia is the reason why Steam has a refund policy at all.
  16. The Atom store itself is a blatant rip off and overcharging for everything. Not by just a little bit but simple outfits or minor things like a sign being 10-20 dollars of in game currency. On top of everything being vastly overpriced, they put out a "special deal" for Christmas in Atom store containing new emotes, new santa outfit, and other Christmas themed stuff for FO76. The Christmas emotes were priced at 2400 Atoms or $24 marked down to 1200 Atoms or $12. Couple problems with this. One the emotes actually did nothing but change the emote wheel images. There were no new animations, just the pictures of the emotes. Number 2 they falsely advertised a discounted price. The Christmas stuff released with the discounted prices, they never were the full price to begin with.
To sum this whole piece of shit game and journey Bethesda has literally broken the law more than once through all this. They only will fix or remedy the problems they created themselves after enough backlash and potential litigation is involved. Even then they seem to show no interest or give two fucks about those who are loyal fans or paying customers. They are doing everything in their power to kill this series and studio.

Also if you are looking forward to Starfield or Elder Scrolls 6 just keep one thing in mind. Bethesda has stated both those games are going to use the creation engine that they have used for FO76 and have used for over a decade because its fast and easy. So if your thinking about those 2 games as a possible good game I would wait on it because Bethesda is showing their true colors and how they plan to treat fans and customers of their once loved series.

If I missed anything let me know.
 
Last edited:

DeathFromBelow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
7,316
Let's see them be academic when someone's attorney slaps a lawsuit on thier ass.

Doubtful. I imagine their terms of service have them covered for any imaginable ban situation, even things like having suspicious software installed.

Thanks to recent Supreme Court rulings TOS agreements are fully enforcable. That's why every online service under the sun has updated their TOS to limit users right to sue this past year or so.
 
Joined
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Messages
545
Doubtful. I imagine their terms of service have them covered for any imaginable ban situation, even things like having suspicious software installed.

Thanks to recent Supreme Court rulings TOS agreements are fully enforcable. That's why every online service under the sun has updated their TOS to limit users right to sue this past year or so.

For the bans probably not going to be able to sue, but with a potential for a class action headed their way coupled with the FTC and Australian government looking into them it might be able to be pushed in with the class action. I don't see it happening, but with everything that they have done leading up to this it may end up having a sliver of ground to stand on.
 
D

Deleted member 222586

Guest
Let me get this straight, they charge full price for a buggy launch (normal), have little real content (sadly also normal), send cheap bags to those that bought the super collectors edition (not as normal), have a steep sale days after launch (haha), dox their own customers, and now ban people for using any tool or mods and make them write an essay to be allowed back...

Wow.

Dont forget the Rum fiasco!!!
 
D

Deleted member 222586

Guest
Doubtful. I imagine their terms of service have them covered for any imaginable ban situation, even things like having suspicious software installed.

Thanks to recent Supreme Court rulings TOS agreements are fully enforcable. That's why every online service under the sun has updated their TOS to limit users right to sue this past year or so.

Not in the EU.
 

vegeta535

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
9,673
It amazes me people still defend the game and Bethesda. If somebody is happy with the game and they like it, good on them, but I don't see how people can defend Bethesda at this point. I hope that they get their shit together and fix the game right and make it up to all the paying customers and loyal fans of the series and company.

The list of offenses is:

  1. Bait and switch/False advertisement number 1: The game itself. They came out and said how the game was going to have all these improvements to graphics, game engine, and all the way around would be the best thing they have ever released. That was a clear blatant lie.
  2. The beta was for pre-orders only. Players who wanted to beta test the game quickly found out the beta was in small windows and usually during mid day hours when they would be work or not around to play the game. The beta windows were something like 4-8 play sessions over the course of 2 weeks before launch. The beta revealed the game was garbage and broken right out of the gate. People kept their hopes up that since it was a "beta" test the game would be fixed at launch. This clearly did not happen.
  3. FO76 for PC required the Bethesda game launcher. The launcher itself ran like shit, was horrible interface, and buggy. People who downloaded and installed FO76 for the beta found out the launcher deleted the 50GB game from their computer just before the beta slot opened. Bethesda than came out and extended the playtime for the beta because of this issue. One user also found that in the games files for FO76 it checks the disk drive for the Fallout 4 disk partially confirming that FO76 was an asset flip of Fallout 4.
  4. Users who were gifted a beta gift key on PC, people who preordered on PC were able to gift something like 2 beta keys, were unable to uninstall FO76 though the launcher. The launcher gave an error message stating "You do not have access to this game". Since they did not buy the game and were gifted a beta key the launcher restricted permissions and users had to go through control panel or 3rd party un-installation software to get rid of FO76.
  5. The game was buggy as hell. Not just minor bugs, or a couple graphical glitches, it was all the way around broken and rushed out the door to try all the money they could get for the game. The game almost instantly required a patch that was almost the size of the original game itself.
  6. FO76 had no security. There was no encryption so all traffic of in game data could be intercepted and messed with. *I may have worded this wrongly as I understood the premise of it, but don't remember exactly what terms were used*
  7. Players found that with little or no changes at all mods for Fallout 4 worked in FO76. One user reported being able to take the lock pick mod, which just shows you the spot where to put the lock pick to unlock the lock, with no changes could be put into FO76 and worked with no issues at all. Other mods that were not going to affect multiplayer had the same results.
  8. Game had little to no content at all. The "story" lacked any real effort. With the lack of NCP's the game seemed lifeless even for a post apocalyptic world.
  9. No ultra wide monitor support. People had to edit the .ini file to adjust the aspect ratio to stretch it to fit, but interfaces and HUD were stretched and looked awful. Bethesda came out saying they were rolling out a fix for this. FO76 players found out that fix was just Bethesda editing the .ini file as they already had. It took a modder to make a mod to fix it and have true ultra wide support.
  10. Bait and switch/ false advertisement number 2: The canvas bags were not sent out as advertised and customers who spent $200 on the collector edition got a cheap nylon bag instead. When news about this was going around customer support gave excuses such as: we couldn't source the materials for the canvas, we don't plan on doing anything about this, the bag shown in the advertisement was a prototype and not what they planned on shipping. The whole time everything showed and advertised a sturdy looking canvas bag. Bethesda responded to this by saying they think this is the best collectors edition they have ever done and they are proud of it. To try and do some damage control they offered 500 Atoms, the equivalent of $5 US dollars in in-game currency. The 500 Atoms couldn't buy a canvas bag in game funny enough, but was enough to buy some flowers and a door for your base in game. When this didn't sit well and the FTC and Australian government were going to get involved Bethesda broke down and decided they would have the bags they advertised made.
  11. Canvas bag part 2: Customers who purchased the $200 power armor collector edition had to email Bethesda support with proof of purchase and other info to get the canvas bag replacement. Some people had no issues, while others were being denied for not providing valid proof of purchase according to Bethesda support. Those who were denied provided all requested information with picture of a receipt, or in one case the customer sent in a screen shot of his order off the Bethesda website and it was still denied. When people did get the request through they found that it will take 4-6 months to get the bag.
  12. The data leaks with tickets. A bug caused users to see, edit, close other users service tickets. It allowed full access to whatever was provided in those tickets like names, partial credit card numbers, emails, pictures of receipts or other images uploaded, etc.
  13. The game is so bad that it was discounted nearly everywhere by 30 to 70 percent. The average after 2 weeks was 50% off. This discount even included the collectors editions. Bethesda refused to price match it for those who paid full price and basically told them to go pound sand.
  14. Bait and switch number 3: Nuka Dark Rum. Bethesda was selling an $80 bottle of rum that was supposed to come in a bottle that looked like the Nuka Cola bottles. They have had Nuka Cola made by Jones soda in the past and that went well, but with Nuka Dark the problem is yet another bait and switch/ false advertisement with the product. The advertisement and images show what appears to be a glass bottle that is uniquely shaped making it a cool looking bottle for Fallout collectors or bottle collectors. The ship date was set to be in November. The ship date came and went with no information about if the product shipped at all. Days after the ship date customers who ordered the bottle of rum got emails stating it was being delayed by the manufacturer, Bethesda had to outsource this obviously, due to the product not being up to funny enough "Fallout standards". The company making Nuka Dark released a teaser video show casing the bottle and rum. The bottle was a very generic bottle with a plastic case giving it the unique shape, not a unique glass bottle that customers were going to be expecting. There have also been issues with the bottle due to the plastic casing making it hard to pour the rum out without making a huge mess and missing the glass due to design.
  15. Bethesda is refusing nearly any requests for refunds. Per TOS on the Bethesda support if you install the game, not even play it just install the game, your wave your right to a refund. Many people believe that Bethesda went to the launcher and stopped selling on Steam so they could do this with the refund policy since steam actually lets you own it for 2 weeks or play less than 2 hours and still get a refund. By refusing refunds Bethesda is breaking laws in some countries such as in Australia for example. Australia is the reason why Steam has a refund policy at all.
  16. The Atom store itself is a blatant rip off and overcharging for everything. Not by just a little bit but simple outfits or minor things like a sign being 10-20 dollars of in game currency. On top of everything being vastly overpriced, they put out a "special deal" for Christmas in Atom store containing new emotes, new santa outfit, and other Christmas themed stuff for FO76. The Christmas emotes were priced at 2400 Atoms or $24 marked down to 1200 Atoms or $12. Couple problems with this. One the emotes actually did nothing but change the emote wheel images. There were no new animations, just the pictures of the emotes. Number 2 they falsely advertised a discounted price. The Christmas stuff released with the discounted prices, they never were the full price to begin with.
To sum this whole piece of shit game and journey Bethesda has literally broken the law more than once through all this. They only will fix or remedy the problems they created themselves after enough backlash and potential litigation is involved. Even then they seem to show no interest or give two fucks about those who are loyal fans or paying customers. They are doing everything in their power to kill this series and studio.

Also if you are looking forward to Starfield or Elder Scrolls 6 just keep one thing in mind. Bethesda has stated both those games are going to use the creation engine that they have used for FO76 and have used for over a decade because its fast and easy. So if your thinking about those 2 games as a possible good game I would wait on it because Bethesda is showing their true colors and how they plan to treat fans and customers of their once loved series.

If I missed anything let me know.
And yet people will still throw their money day one for ES6.
 

Viper16

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
1,857
I thought Fallout 4 was a bust...can't imagine even attempting this game...and now I never will with all this bs happening. Such a train wreck.
 
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