Bethesda: Fallout Creation Club “Is Not Paid Mods”

Megalith

Megalith

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Bethesda VP Pete Hines is dismissing the allegation that Creation Club constitutes “paid mods”: he defends the concept by explaining that modders are essentially developers, and that they should be paid for their work. But while that makes a lot of sense, it doesn’t change the fact that gamers still have to pay for the mods. Another problem is that Bethesda is charging for mods that aren’t nearly as good as the ones that gamers can grab for free on Nexus and similar sites.

Since it launched at the start of the week, there have been concerns about the quality of the mods on offer and much discussion about what precedent this sets for the future of free mods. There’s also been an issue with the mod file archives being apparently downloaded as part of a universal Fallout 4 patch, even if you haven’t purchased a single mod. The latter was addressed by Bethesda in a recent FAQ update: “We’re working on solutions that would not require Creation Club archives to be part of the game’s patch.”
 
modders are developers who should charge for their product IF we are paying for: Official testing + signoff by Bethesda testers that these mods wont bork your game saves, etc, etc, etc. Otherwise, screw that. Someone will always be around to make naked-female skins for free.
 
Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with modders being paid for their work. While I don't donate for every mod I download from the Nexus, I've donated many times and like to reward good work. As long as this part
I know that people are upset and frustrated, but at the end of the day, mods are and will continue to remain free. Modders can continue to do whatever they want, through our own stuff, through Nexus, go nuts.”
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remains true, then I can't really complain, can I? If a modder wants to work for Bethesda instead of uploading to the Nexus, then good for them and best of luck.

Even if Bethesda tries to take control of the modding platform and force all mods to be paid, I'm pretty sure that 1) modders will find a way and/or 2) there'll be other games to play.

That this moron is trying to distance Bethesda from the 'paid mods' idea, that the initial launch is reportedly a clusterfuck, and that this moron deflects with 'It's early days' doesn't make me think very highly of Bethesda, but at this point I don't really care what they do because the Nexus is still a choice.
 
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Of course it's not "paid mods" it's "we eat your pie, then everyone eats their own"

I already said why this is bad for modding in general. Because modders will no longer be motivated to do what they want, they'll be motivated to do what they think people would pay for. As in welcome to the era of shitty clickbait mods.
 
M76 said:
I already said why this is bad for modding in general. Because modders will no longer be motivated to do what they want, they'll be motivated to do what they think people would pay for. As in welcome to the era of shitty clickbait mods.
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Let me get this straight:
1: Money-seeking modders go to Bethesda and start fucking things up with click-baity mods
2: Non-money seeking modders can still upload their mods to Nexus, receive donations, etc as before

As a gamer:
1: I go to Bethesda to buy shitty click-bait nude sex mods and demand refunds due to poor quality OR buy a few good mods that are worth the money and don't complain
2: I go to the Nexus to do what I already do now, but with less bullshit to sort through since some of the click-bait bullshit will have migrated to Bethesda

I guess I'm not seeing how this is a huge problem for me as a gamer. It sounds like more of a problem for Bethesda. If they can deal with it, great, that means we can buy good mods. If they can't deal with it, also great, because fuck 'em.

If a modder is good, he'll probably earn more from Bethesda than from donations @ Nexus (*motherfucking citation needed) so as far as I see it more choice for both modders and gamers isn't a bad thing.
 
More than anything I see this as a way for Bethesda to monetize other people's work on their game, especially for console gamers, who have a less convenient route for modding their titles for free. I wonder what the % split is for the mod maker and developers, I'd bet it's around 40% for Bethesda. Think of this as if people are paying for a skin color variation in a moba game. This is a way to monetize a product that otherwise would have no auxiliary value (not counting re-releases on different platforms).
 
I like how modders somehow went from doing what they do for the enjoyment of it to now wanting compensation for their "work"...all because Bethesda wants them to think this just so they can have this stupid service just so they can skim money off the top. You think Bethesda gives a shit about it's "Content Creators™"? Fuck no. They care about that percentage they get to put in their pockets.

It's all so greedy and slimy and manipulative. It feels wrong because it is wrong.
 
Nicepants42 said:
Let me get this straight:
1: Money-seeking modders go to Bethesda and start fucking things up with click-baity mods
2: Non-money seeking modders can still upload their mods to Nexus, receive donations, etc as before

As a gamer:
1: I go to Bethesda to buy shitty click-bait nude sex mods and demand refunds due to poor quality OR buy a few good mods that are worth the money and don't complain
2: I go to the Nexus to do what I already do now, but with less bullshit to sort through since some of the click-bait bullshit will have migrated to Bethesda

I guess I'm not seeing how this is a huge problem for me as a gamer. It sounds like more of a problem for Bethesda. If they can deal with it, great, that means we can buy good mods. If they can't deal with it, also great, because fuck 'em.

If a modder is good, he'll probably earn more from Bethesda than from donations @ Nexus (*motherfucking citation needed) so as far as I see it more choice for both modders and gamers isn't a bad thing.
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I hadn't considered that good modders would stay on free sites, I hope that happens and I'm wrong.
When there is an opportunity to make money why would they pass on that?
It's more about psychology.if you're uploading to a paid section you change your priorities even unconsciously. There were studies that shown when there are no expectations the creativity and quality goes up, but as soon as people know their work must fulfil someone's expectation the creativity tanks.
 
Mut1ny said:
I like how modders somehow went from doing what they do for the enjoyment of it to now wanting compensation for their "work"...all because Bethesda wants them to think this just so they can have this stupid service just so they can skim money off the top. You think Bethesda gives a shit about it's "Content Creators™"? Fuck no. They care about that percentage they get to put in their pockets.

It's all so greedy and slimy and manipulative. It feels wrong because it is wrong.
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I don't know why did you put work in quotes. Modding is work, and some modders do better work than the original content creators of the game developers. So I'm all for them getting something more out of this than pride in their work. But it shouldn't be an upfront payment. More like a reward system.

Here's how I'd do it if I Wanted a paid mod system. Make it subscription based. People who subscribe get access to all mods in it, and a percentage of subscription fees is distributed amongst creators based on how well liked their mods are. A metric based heavily on approval rather than number of dls.
 
Mut1ny said:
I like how modders somehow went from doing what they do for the enjoyment of it to now wanting compensation for their "work"...all because Bethesda wants them to think this just so they can have this stupid service just so they can skim money off the top. You think Bethesda gives a shit about it's "Content Creators™"? Fuck no. They care about that percentage they get to put in their pockets.

It's all so greedy and slimy and manipulative. It feels wrong because it is wrong.
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Entitled much? I could also ask, "You think gamers give a shit about the 100's or 1000's of manhours that have gone into some of the better mods? Fuck no". Its just "gimme gimme gimme, work for free".

Its not up to you or anyone to decide whether a modder should be allowed to put a pricetag on his work or not. Some of the bigger mods can turn into a downright fulltime job, they are that time consuming.

The market will decide. If a paid mod is worth paying for, people will pay it. If a good mod remains free and worth downloading, people will download. If a modder wants to leave his mods free after thousands of hours working on it, so be it, but that'll be his decision, not any entitled nerds on the internet.
 
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So is this Bethesda mods or are these user uploaded mods to a mod store?

If it's the latter, than I'm sure there will be a lot of counterfeit/stolen mods going up in the near future. Hopefully they have the infrastructure to police that.
 
Megalith said:
Bethesda VP Pete Hines is dismissing the allegation that Creation Club constitutes “paid mods”: he defends the concept by explaining that modders are essentially developers, and that they should be paid for their work. But while that makes a lot of sense, it doesn’t change the fact that gamers still have to pay for the mods. Another problem is that Bethesda is charging for mods that aren’t nearly as good as the ones that gamers can grab for free on Nexus and similar sites.

Since it launched at the start of the week, there have been concerns about the quality of the mods on offer and much discussion about what precedent this sets for the future of free mods. There’s also been an issue with the mod file archives being apparently downloaded as part of a universal Fallout 4 patch, even if you haven’t purchased a single mod. The latter was addressed by Bethesda in a recent FAQ update: “We’re working on solutions that would not require Creation Club archives to be part of the game’s patch.”
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See this kind of shit kinda pisses me off. It's not that I don't think modders should get paid for what they do. After all, some are very good and deserve it. On the other hand, others suck. The self-made system of asking for Patreon or some other form of donation if you like the mod works for both modders and those who use the mods. Once corporations start putting their grubby little mitts into the program I start calling bullshit. I see it as Bethesda wanting to get it's cut. Now granted, they do own the property, and I can respect that, but then why officially support mods at all, why not just release shit like that on their own rather than disrupting the whole community? That's just my opinion though.
 
Cal Jeffrey said:
The self-made system of asking for Patreon or some other form of donation if you like the mod works for both modders and those who use the mods.
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Does it really? Have major modders weighed in on this at all? It's not much work to set up a donation system, but that doesn't mean that they are being fairly compensated via donations. My gut would be that almost nobody donates, and so the donation system doesn't actually work for modders at all it's just better than nothing.

As long as it's up to the mod author to decide if it's a paid or free mod I don't really see any problem with this system. It's no different than app stores, and you'll still continue relying on external reviewers to find & review the mods anyway before you install (or buy in this case)
 
M76 said:
Here's how I'd do it if I Wanted a paid mod system. Make it subscription based. People who subscribe get access to all mods in it, and a percentage of subscription fees is distributed amongst creators based on how well liked their mods are. A metric based heavily on approval rather than number of dls.
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What?? Subscription??? You joking? I doubt many would 'approve' of a subscription model. Do I lose my mods if I unsubscribe? Or will one month access give unlimited downloads?

I'd rather just buy what I like. It gives Bethseda the hint that nice quest mods are better than cosmetic trinkets.
 
So, Bethesda is lying to the people they want to buy their paid mods about their paid mods not being paid mods - which they are. So, Bethesda is making people pay for mods via their Paid Mods Club, and is lying about it.

I think I understand.
 
Modders payed by the hour results in modders not being incentivised to create successful Bethesda-style-not-paid ones. Whoddathunkit?
 
I've been having fun with non creation club mods lately.
EBa3pFN.jpg
 
M76 said:
I don't know why did you put work in quotes. Modding is work, and some modders do better work than the original content creators of the game developers.
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OK and? If they want to get money then why are they modding and not doing it as a job? Again, modders DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT MONEY until dipshits like Bethesda said they could possibly make some now all of a sudden mods are "work" and it's only fair they get paid for something that NONE of them got paid to do for DECADES.

It's like Bethesda has you thinking exactly what they want you to think.

odditory said:
Entitled much? I could also ask, "You think gamers give a shit about the 100's or 1000's of manhours that have gone into some of the better mods? Fuck no". Its just "gimme gimme gimme, work for free".
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Yeah, like mods have been since fucking forever. That's not entitlement. This is me not wanting publishers shoving their noses where it doesn't belong all simply to try and make more money off the game they already got paid for and is doing nothing to make the mods.

Like the guy above, you drank the Kool-Aid. Thank's for supporting this and helping kill the mod scene. Pffft...yeah...modders should be paid because ya know...that's what they got into it for. Thanks Bethesda for creating entitlement where there was none before outside of just knowing you did a good thing to expand the game you love!
 
Mut1ny said:
OK and? If they want to get money then why are they modding and not doing it as a job? Again, modders DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT MONEY until dipshits like Bethesda said they could possibly make some now all of a sudden mods are "work" and it's only fair they get paid for something that NONE of them got paid to do for DECADES.

It's like Bethesda has you thinking exactly what they want you to think.
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The only point you're making here is that you are arrogant to the extreme, and don't even seem to care to understand and consider the points made. So because there was no way to get compensated for mods in the past there never shall be? What a stupid non-argument that is. So because women didn't have voting rights in the past, they never should've got em?

And Work is work regardless if you get paid for it or not. I meant work as in effort put into it, not as a full time job.

I never said I wanted paid mods, all I said if we must have paid mods a subscription based model is harder to abuse, because you only get paid if you do good mods, and not if you do clickbaity shit.
 
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SecretStash said:
What?? Subscription??? You joking? I doubt many would 'approve' of a subscription model. Do I lose my mods if I unsubscribe? Or will one month access give unlimited downloads?

I'd rather just buy what I like. It gives Bethseda the hint that nice quest mods are better than cosmetic trinkets.
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No, but the point I was making went way above your head. It's not about how you pay, it's about how abuse proof the system is. And if you use a bunch of mods regularly you'd probably end up paying less with a mild subscription fee than if you have to pay for individual mods. I loath the system, where every small trinket you have to pay individually for. The bill racks up quite rapidly and you end up paying 80-100$ at times. And it's addictive too, you always want the new stuff that's better than the old.

So I'd rather choose to pay an $10 subscription than $1-5 for individual mods. And I can unsubscribe when I stop playing the game, and re-subscribe when I want to play it again in 6 months or so. Buying mods wouldn't be effective that way anyway because in 6 months they get superseded and updated a lot, so you wouldn't want to play the old version either way.
 
This is a example of a situation where a decentralized distribution platform outside the control of the game companies would be a better way for modders to charge for their work if they so chose, and not get screwed by Bethesda. Lbry.io, and I am sure there are other platforms where you can self publish and get paid with losing rights to your own content and only getting a tiny cut.
 
Oh god it's Logan from Tek Syndicate. Surprised he still uses the name Tek Syndicate.
 
Mut1ny said:
I like how modders somehow went from doing what they do for the enjoyment of it to now wanting compensation for their "work"...all because Bethesda wants them to think this just so they can have this stupid service just so they can skim money off the top. You think Bethesda gives a shit about it's "Content Creators™"? Fuck no. They care about that percentage they get to put in their pockets.

It's all so greedy and slimy and manipulative. It feels wrong because it is wrong.
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Wrong is such a harsh word for this issue ...... how about we say "it feels human" ?
 
kllrnohj said:
Does it really? Have major modders weighed in on this at all? It's not much work to set up a donation system, but that doesn't mean that they are being fairly compensated via donations. My gut would be that almost nobody donates, and so the donation system doesn't actually work for modders at all it's just better than nothing.

As long as it's up to the mod author to decide if it's a paid or free mod I don't really see any problem with this system. It's no different than app stores, and you'll still continue relying on external reviewers to find & review the mods anyway before you install (or buy in this case)
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You're right... I have a friend who wrote the most liked mods for ESO and over 1.5 million downloads later, he got about 30 bucks in donations. People always whine about how donations compensate, but they really don't.
 
M76 said:
No, but the point I was making went way above your head. It's not about how you pay, it's about how abuse proof the system is. And if you use a bunch of mods regularly you'd probably end up paying less with a mild subscription fee than if you have to pay for individual mods. I loath the system, where every small trinket you have to pay individually for. The bill racks up quite rapidly and you end up paying 80-100$ at times. And it's addictive too, you always want the new stuff that's better than the old.

So I'd rather choose to pay an $10 subscription than $1-5 for individual mods. And I can unsubscribe when I stop playing the game, and re-subscribe when I want to play it again in 6 months or so. Buying mods wouldn't be effective that way anyway because in 6 months they get superseded and updated a lot, so you wouldn't want to play the old version either way.
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No need to reply with inflammatory "way over your head" stuff. I wasn't trying to be either, though it probably sounded that way. I was just taken aback by your idea of subscriptions. My point with "no one would agree" goes both ways. It would be way too hard politically and financially to have a subscription model that:
A. Bethseda would feel they could make good revenue with, without people abusing the system.
B. Is there a level consumers would agree to? without an enormous outcry against more DRM, large recurring payments, broken saves due to remote DLC deactivation.

Just seems like either a PR nightmare and Beth makes no money. Lose lose.
 
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