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Bethesda Charging $2.50 For Horse Armor?
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Sir_ReeL said:
My guess is that's it's pretty much like real life, your pony dies, then you take the fancy and expensive saddle off the carcass and put it on your new shiny pony. Why would the Horse Armor disappear just because the horse dies?
Sure, the guys at Bethesda are trying to make money, but I don't think they are trying to be dicks about it by having you buy a unique horse armor download for every horse you have.
TheToE! said:
This is where everyone should be calling bullshit. This is something that should've been included from the beginning. I figured I'd be able to earn my way into the Orrery somehow, since you know, the door isn't hidden, and it needs a key... Now i have to buy the key? No thank you. Any way you spin it, this is downright extortion. (anyone who wishes to argue with me, don't expect an argument. Can't be arsed)
About horses dying: I don't know, but get Shadowmere, she don't die.
Edit;
These guys are assholes.
Nuzzles said:This is where everyone should be calling bullshit. This is something that should've been included from the beginning. I figured I'd be able to earn my way into the Orrery somehow, since you know, the door isn't hidden, and it needs a key... Now i have to buy the key? No thank you. Any way you spin it, this is downright extortion. (anyone who wishes to argue with me, don't expect an argument. Can't be arsed)
About horses dying: I don't know, but get Shadowmere, she don't die.
Edit;
These guys are assholes.
Extortion? Please, why such hyperbole? This isn't anything near extortion. You might find it rediculous, or distasteful, but extortion simply doesn't apply. It's optional, you are in no way compelled to purchase it unless you want to. How does offering an optional piece of content for $1.89 somehow equate to an act of physically threatening someone with violence?
JethroXP said:
Okay, I admit it being a bad choice of diction. But that's all you have to counter my point? : /
To everyone at Bethesda who says "It takes money to make these, it's not easy." or w/e they said:
Fuck you. If this was true, with the amount of content in Oblivion, they should be asking for for at least $150 for the damn game.
Ok so you guys are saying you'd rather have an expansion 6 monthes from now for 20-30 bucks, than be able to choose whatever, and whenever you get in terms of content?
It's wrong to offer you new content at a low price where you get to pick what you want and don't?
It's wrong to offer you new content at a low price where you get to pick what you want and don't?
This isn't an expansion pack. Expansion packs I'd pay for, since the game is quite good. This is stuff that's already there! I wouldn't be even be in this thread if this was *added* content... stuff they work on AFTER the game is released, and put a decent amount of labour into. This is just... eating people for every penny... thanks Marketplace concept!
How many sales does it require for them to consider the sale a success? Lets say it took two employees a whole work day to make the horse skin, would 400 people buying the thing be enough to claim that it had been profitable? That doesn't sound like many people, but then again I have no idea how much work really went into the armor. It may have taken more money, so how much? The game engine existed before the armor, and was sold for money to you; so how much additional effort did it take for them to produce the armor?
Here some some questions. Are they going to offer the thing permanantly, in order to sell as many as possible? Will they at some point start offering things in limited quantities so that people will feel that if they don't buy something they will never get the oportunity again, thus allowing them to raise the prices? Is that one of the things the tests are determining?
I still think it's a form of spam, because they are exposing the oportunity-to-buy on as many people as they can. I guess if it's the only game you play, there may not be enough ads to bug you though.
Here some some questions. Are they going to offer the thing permanantly, in order to sell as many as possible? Will they at some point start offering things in limited quantities so that people will feel that if they don't buy something they will never get the oportunity again, thus allowing them to raise the prices? Is that one of the things the tests are determining?
I still think it's a form of spam, because they are exposing the oportunity-to-buy on as many people as they can. I guess if it's the only game you play, there may not be enough ads to bug you though.
Rich Tate said:I was actually referring to myself.
I personally don't see the big deal, but to each his own.
You guys are bashing Bethesda, and not Microsoft which was my whole basis for sticking my nose in here in the first place.
Multiple personalities: Check <_<
I don't blame Microsoft simply because i don't see it as being their fault. Bah-doom-chish. (that was the stupid drummer putting that in where no joke was to be had, for the sheer unlikeliness of the comment)
The King of Pants
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whelp, i didn't get into Morrowind untill after all the expansions were out, and now i won't be picking up Oblivion untill all this downloadable nonsense is available in a super deluxe retail version. I'll live.
steviep said:Of course we can agree to disagree, that's what forums are about. I won't be buying any of this, thank you very much
Neither. Looks like the pirates will be winning again. lol
I'll make one last point and then I'm about argued out on this topic.
Why is it ok for us to demand that game developers continue to work for us long after we've paid them? If your boss asked you to stay late every night after work, even if only for 5 minutes but refused to pay you for the time, you might not mind at first but over time it sure would become a big issue. How is demanding free additional content from game developers any different? Doing so is asking that they continue to work for your benefit long after you stopped paying their bills. Obviously I'm not talking about patches and bug fixes, that's product support. I'm talking about new content, which is essentially addtional product. Would any of us be happy if more work was demanded from us without additional compensation?
For those who say the work was already done, consider the scenario of baker who has an order for 10 muffins. His muffin pan has 12 holes so he bakes 12 muffins so that just in case one or two don't turn out well he has some spares. Turns out two muffins split across the top and are not visually appealing, so he delivers the 10 "good" ones and has two left over. Being a smart baker he decides to frost the two split muffins and sell them as cupcakes. Is that wrong? Should he have just given them away for free? They were already made, right? No, he is entitled to sell them as well. This Horse Armor is no different. It doesn't matter when it was created or what the original purpose may have been, it's still their property and if they want to sell it, there is nothing wrong with that.
Why is it ok for us to demand that game developers continue to work for us long after we've paid them? If your boss asked you to stay late every night after work, even if only for 5 minutes but refused to pay you for the time, you might not mind at first but over time it sure would become a big issue. How is demanding free additional content from game developers any different? Doing so is asking that they continue to work for your benefit long after you stopped paying their bills. Obviously I'm not talking about patches and bug fixes, that's product support. I'm talking about new content, which is essentially addtional product. Would any of us be happy if more work was demanded from us without additional compensation?
For those who say the work was already done, consider the scenario of baker who has an order for 10 muffins. His muffin pan has 12 holes so he bakes 12 muffins so that just in case one or two don't turn out well he has some spares. Turns out two muffins split across the top and are not visually appealing, so he delivers the 10 "good" ones and has two left over. Being a smart baker he decides to frost the two split muffins and sell them as cupcakes. Is that wrong? Should he have just given them away for free? They were already made, right? No, he is entitled to sell them as well. This Horse Armor is no different. It doesn't matter when it was created or what the original purpose may have been, it's still their property and if they want to sell it, there is nothing wrong with that.
JethroXP said:
Thats all fine and well, if you have a TV of course. I certainly don't and if I wanted graphics that look ANYTHING close to a PC monitor I'd need a HDTV, ok so now we're talking a bit more even prices.
They might be cheaper but if you're a gaming enthusiast and want to stay at the forefront of gaming theres no better place to be than on a PC, after 4 years the Xbox360 is going to be incredibly stale, yet PC users will have splashed out another few hundred quid in 2 years time to give their video card and upgrade.
Yah PC's are more complex, require more setup, and guess what? That allows us to mod the game, switch things around, create our own custom content and do a whole bunch of stuff that a console can't do. The [oblivion] community have done a fantastic job modding oblivion so far. It looks better, runs better, plays better and is already highly customiseable, plus there's now fixes for all major quest bugs. It took about 5 minutes to install yet i'd gladly sacrafice that 5 mins for such freedom for the community to customise the game.
Thats very stereotypical of hardcore PC gamers but its precisely these guys who end up understanding the game engine and modding it for others, for that I'm thankful.
In summary, if you're not willing to learn how to use the basics of a PC and you simply want to be able to sit down pick up a controller and play then get a console, or a mac. But is that a better gaming experience, i dont think so...
WorldRunner
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You guys can call me crazy if you like... But everytime there's some kind of change in video games there's an uproar on the message boards.
The most vocal gamers are under 18 (IMO). People who are younger are typically not able to see past their own point of view. "I don't like it...it shouldn't exist." Like I said...you can call me crazy.
I think adults are more used to change and also aren't spending most of their day on message boards complaining about stuff. So it may seem like most of the gaming community is in fact against something but most gamers are adults. We have the most disposable income and the 20+ crowd is easily spending more of their money on this form of entertainment than the under 20 crowd.
Anyway...back to my original point about change...
Look at all the changes that have happened in gaming and how upset a small % of the community got.
Valve releases steam (which is exceptional IMO), Companies start charging a monthly fee for their games (MMOs, which wouldn't really exist w/ out the fees), Companies start releases expansion packs (More content is always great. Buy if it you want it, don't if you don't) Companies start putting advertisements in games (OH no! my game experience is totally ruined by that burger king sign! )
We'll all be ok
The most vocal gamers are under 18 (IMO). People who are younger are typically not able to see past their own point of view. "I don't like it...it shouldn't exist." Like I said...you can call me crazy.
I think adults are more used to change and also aren't spending most of their day on message boards complaining about stuff. So it may seem like most of the gaming community is in fact against something but most gamers are adults. We have the most disposable income and the 20+ crowd is easily spending more of their money on this form of entertainment than the under 20 crowd.
Anyway...back to my original point about change...
Look at all the changes that have happened in gaming and how upset a small % of the community got.
Valve releases steam (which is exceptional IMO), Companies start charging a monthly fee for their games (MMOs, which wouldn't really exist w/ out the fees), Companies start releases expansion packs (More content is always great. Buy if it you want it, don't if you don't) Companies start putting advertisements in games (OH no! my game experience is totally ruined by that burger king sign!
)We'll all be ok
YogiYahooeys
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It's no wonder that personal debt is so bad in the world today.
I can't believe how many people that I have seen in this thread that have said "it's only $2.50."
Does anyone truly realize how quickly those $2.50 charges add up?
Honestly, I'm a little split on the matter. The marketing man in my blood screams that this is a brilliant move. The cost of these items is virtually nothing and the potential revenue stream is unlimited. They only have to sell 28 of these items and they have brought in at least the full revenue ($70) of another fully sold game. Plus, they already have a built in market for the item, millions of drooling fans dying to get the latest and greatest and foolish enough to believe that $2.50 really is the modern day equivilant to a penny (if only they had put all their 'worthless' pennies in a jar when they were kids and discovered how quickly they make a significant sum).
Of course, the consumer in me feels ripped off. I remember a time when things like this were included in expansion packs and were called 'worthless' content.
As has been mentioned, I can make my vote with my dollar, but I *am* fearful for the future.
YY
I can't believe how many people that I have seen in this thread that have said "it's only $2.50."
Does anyone truly realize how quickly those $2.50 charges add up?
Honestly, I'm a little split on the matter. The marketing man in my blood screams that this is a brilliant move. The cost of these items is virtually nothing and the potential revenue stream is unlimited. They only have to sell 28 of these items and they have brought in at least the full revenue ($70) of another fully sold game. Plus, they already have a built in market for the item, millions of drooling fans dying to get the latest and greatest and foolish enough to believe that $2.50 really is the modern day equivilant to a penny (if only they had put all their 'worthless' pennies in a jar when they were kids and discovered how quickly they make a significant sum).
Of course, the consumer in me feels ripped off. I remember a time when things like this were included in expansion packs and were called 'worthless' content.
As has been mentioned, I can make my vote with my dollar, but I *am* fearful for the future.
YY
Personally, I feel like $250 is way to much to pay for a mod. I only paid around $50 for the game itself. Bethesda is totally out of their minds if they think I'll pay 5 times what I paid for the game for just a mod for my horse. That's just crazy. If they lowered the price to maybe a hundred dollars then maybe I'd consider it. I realize that they have to make some money somehow but paying more than 200 bucks for mod just feels wrong.
WorldRunner
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MrWolf710 said:
...wow
burningrave101
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MrWolf710 said:
What in the heck are you talking about? I think your brain forgot to put a period in that figure when you was reading.
Torgo
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I'm shocked, shocked I tell you to find my little buddy Rich on this side of the argument. I'd much rather have an expansion six months from now and pay $30 dollars rather than have miniscule content piecemealed to me as it nickle and dimes me to the poorhouse. It's like saying "Hey, would you like to have 15 pieces of armor, clothing and weapons one at a time for $30, or would you rather have a new campaign with lots of extras for $30?"Rich Tate said:
The answer is a resounding "Duh!" "Oh, but the Orrey is a quest. It's different." Admittedly it's better, but it goes to show that Bethesda screwed up (and yes, this is Bethesda's idea) when planning this fiasco. What genius thought that offering horse armor first at an outrageous price, is better than offering a quest for less? Why the hell didn't they wait a week and start off with the quest in the first place? The horse armor soured a lot of people.
Then, what really pisses me off, is this total out and out lie that (I'm paraphrasing) "this sort of stuff takes time to develop and test out". This mod has been in the planning for months, under the original development schedule. Essentially, almost all the work for this modification has already been captialized and charged off under the original development budget.
I would have a much easier time with this if Bethesda just came straight out and told the truth about these shennanigans. If their spokesman came out and stated, "Hey, we're working on the expansion pack, but if you don't want to wait you can download these elements as we finish developing them at a small fee or you can wait 6 months and you can buy it at all at once" I wouldn't have much of a problem with that. It doesn't change that in the long run it makes the game considerably more expensive and goes against their philosophy of designing games for gamers by gamers. (Gamers would give away these piddly mods for free like the rest of the modding community.)
I look at companies like Stardock that gives away a lot of freebies for their games because they understand that it builds customer loyalty and encourages future purchases of product. The way that Bethesda is going about this is so transparently haphazard.
As I saw in one forum: "$2.50 might not seem like much now...but just wait until companies start making a bare bones game for $60 and then charge $2.50 for each quest. That will suck."
^^I knew I'd catch hell from you on this one.
I must say though I do agree with your point. If they would have been forthcoming and said "Hey, we're gonna do this to test the waters" or whatever the explanation may be it certainly would have went over a lot better.
I like the idea of on demand content, but it could have been handled better, you are right.
I won't buy the armor because it's a skin. Which was another one of my gripes I know you'll go with me on, if they also would've called what it was, it probably would've been less of a big deal.
I must say though I do agree with your point. If they would have been forthcoming and said "Hey, we're gonna do this to test the waters" or whatever the explanation may be it certainly would have went over a lot better.
I like the idea of on demand content, but it could have been handled better, you are right.
I won't buy the armor because it's a skin. Which was another one of my gripes I know you'll go with me on, if they also would've called what it was, it probably would've been less of a big deal.
Frosteh said:
You made excellent points, I can't argue with any of that. Like I said, I wasn't bashing PC gaming, nor am I abandoning it. But ever since I returned home from a 4 day, 500 person PC LAN party about 6 weeks ago, where I saw that even with my recent $500 PC upgrade I was still a few notches below "high-end", I've found that I now spend far more of my gaming time on the 360, and I expect that trend to continue for me. PC Gaming is great, but I've personally come to the conclusion that it's too expensive for me to keep my machine at the level that I want to really enjoy it.
Honestly, I think part of this is age too. When I was younger I was a true hardcore gamer, I studied the tweaks for every game, was heavy into custom scripting, and devoured just about every mod that came out. Now that I've got a kid, and more responsibilities at work, I simply don't have the time for all that, and instead like to spend what time I have on actual game play rather than tweaking. Given that, I'm finding it harder and harder to justify the expense of keeping my Gaming PC on the cutting edge, not to mention that I'm using it more and more these days to VPN in to work, or edit photos and videos of the kid
Torgo
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Eh, what can I do? Even with my new Prozac perscription I'm still a bit bitchy. There is a bright side to all this. The one competitive advantage that game developer had with game expansions was the fact they had the time, resources and money to make a large expansion with lots of features and bonuses. It's a big money maker for them.Rich Tate said:^^I knew I'd catch hell from you on this one.
However, by releasing these smaller items it puts the developer on the same level as the modding community. The modding community can have a huge advantage on one level, pricing. As many in this thread have pointed out, why should I buy this when I can get it for free from the community is absolutely right. If Bethesda decides not to make an expansion pack, the modders out there can totally grab the momentum from them.
All the modders out there (and I wish there was something similar for the 360 community) should take advantage of the situation and totally exploit it. There's no way Bethesda can compete with a army of hundreds of modders willing to release their product for free. That's why this whole idea of selling small mods isn't going to last very long (in my opinion). The marketplace will shut it down.
Bethesda needs to get on the ball and start explaining why their mods are going to be worth the extra money. They need to establish that they are the experts, they make the best mods, the quests and items are worth the price and give a better experience over the free ones. Every day they don't hammer this point home is another day that the user community can be swayed by the modders.
Does anyone else notice that it's a really obvious plot to get us to buy the horse armor add-on? I mean I could understand getting armor if you could fight from the horse, but you can't. So instead of having a legitamate reason to need armor, Bethesda designed the AI to attack your horse at all costs. I mean, really do you think that a mob that's supposedly sentient in the game world would REALLY go charging your horse after you have dismounted and drawn your weapon? I can only imagine that as I level the horse will not, and I will be forced to consider some sort of "alternative" to riding horseback through the now more dangerous world that magically and unilaterally levels with me. Since I refuse to feed the evil machine of paid add-ons, I'll have to either quit playing, or hold out for a community made mod.
I hate where computer games have gone. No longer can you expect to get a good finished game. Now you can EXPECT patches, EXPECT to pay more for content that was deliberately omitted, and EXPECT the game to be designed for optimal profit instead of optimal fun.
The day they start charging for patches, is the day I learn how to play Bridge.
I hate where computer games have gone. No longer can you expect to get a good finished game. Now you can EXPECT patches, EXPECT to pay more for content that was deliberately omitted, and EXPECT the game to be designed for optimal profit instead of optimal fun.
The day they start charging for patches, is the day I learn how to play Bridge.
WorldRunner
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Also you guys are attacking this company for something that other companies are doing as well.
You pay money for different kameo outfits too. They're also charging money for different themes for XBL.
Want your favorite NFL team as your gamer picture? fork over some $$$
You pay money for different kameo outfits too. They're also charging money for different themes for XBL.
Want your favorite NFL team as your gamer picture? fork over some $$$
burningrave101
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I for one doubt that i will purchase any mods released by Bethesda unless it is just something that looks so incredible i can't live without it. Bethesda needs to just stick with releasing full expansions and if they want to release some small addons to the game like the horse armor i think that is great but it should be free. They should release things like that in order to draw more people into buying the game in the first place. Not so they can make more money off the people that already purchased their copy. Making people pay for content is just a quick way to lose potential enthusiests along the way. I'm sure the modding community can and will release better plugins then anything Bethesda can come up with anyways. They did with Morrowind and they will with Oblivion. There is a lot more talent in the hundreds of modders on the elder scrolls forum then there is in the handful of people that work for Bethesda.
WorldRunner said:
That's the sad thing. Remember older Rare games, where if you were a good player you EARNED those fancy new suits/characters/etc? Remember when in-game bonuses were considered .... bonuses? I hate hammering the point, but it's a travesty that what could've been a good concept in the whole XBL Marketplace idea is turning into a way for companies to scrooge thier customers to buying optional add-ons that should be attainable in other ways. Expansion pack? Fine, work hard and make one, and I'll pay for it. But piddly shit like this? Prozzac please
WorldRunner
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steviep said:That's the sad thing. Remember older Rare games, where if you were a good player you EARNED those fancy new suits/characters/etc? Remember when in-game bonuses were considered .... bonuses? I hate hammering the point, but it's a travesty that what could've been a good concept in the whole XBL Marketplace idea is turning into a way for companies to scrooge thier customers to buying optional add-ons that should be attainable in other ways. Expansion pack? Fine, work hard and make one, and I'll pay for it. But piddly shit like this? Prozzac please
Achievement points are what you earn now