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just wondering how different asp would be
Assuming you are actually talking about programming and not HTML forms
Different from what?
If you don't care about performance/scaling then you could use the Entity Framework which will make some of what you may want to do somewhat easier.
He specifically started off stating "I am trying to create a webform". Although I agree, it is very confusing without a clear question
I am curious about this statement, specifically the scaling part.
The Entity Framework (EF) is an alternative to LINQ to SQL, which you can also query with LINQ. NHibernate is an open source system that provides similar functionality.
All of these systems provide an Object Relational Model (ORM), each with its own pros and cons. I have mixed feelings about all ORM systems. I love them because they allow me to develop small, proof-of-concept sites extremely quickly. I can side step much of the SQL and related complexity that I would otherwise need and focus on the objects, business logic and presentation. However, at the same time, I also dont care for them because, unfortunately, their performance and scalability is usually very poor, even when theyre integrated with comprehensive caching which isnt always easy or even straightforward.
Webforms, I know, see: http://www.asp.net/web-forms
If you aren't building the next Amazon then EF is a good choice for sure, but if there's even only a small chance that you will need toscale out into thousands (or hundreds?) of users then ORMs are likely to cause trouble down the road.
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and NO!
Ok, I'll bite ..., so I at least provided links to some opinion pieces about performance issues with ORMs and/or EF specifically at scale.
There is some level of a price paid in performance, but you have to look at a few of the positive gains of EF:It's possible that those issues were partially caused by user error, but ultimately ORMs are just wrappers and literally no one can deny that there's a performance price to be paid for that abstraction.
Well, the dude in the book goes over it in more detail, he basically compares the number of queries generated to do a simple thing and (from memory) it takes like 50 queries with EF vs 7 to do it straight up or some such. I don't have the book in front of me right now, the text I copied was from an online reference.
So clearly you didn't get much out of reading it....that or the author was completely ineffective in articulating his stance.
LOL
His message that ORMs add overhead and that this overhead can and does create performance problems was well received.
EF has a little extra bloat. It sucks to look at when you look at the SQL profiler. They like to make use of nested queries. Really annoying to try to read sometimes. Sometimes it just feels good to just make a stored proc and get the data the way you want it. But yeah, EF does the job nicely, especially with cache to help it out. Honestly though, EF is a little overrated. LINQ to SQL works with just as much development time for most of our purposes. And DataReader really ain't that bad either. Some extra lines with a stored proc is all in many cases.
as for Webforms, that's of the devil. MVC all the way baby
Sprocs still have their place. BTW, the latest major version of EF (as of writing, EF 6) does support sprocs.
Stored procedures? Ugh I avoid those like the plague!
Sometimes simpler and cleaner than certain LINQ querires. But usually LINQ works fine for most cases.