Best Reviewed A-MVA Monitor Thread: Read the 1st Post

**MaRVeL** said:
If what I understand from the sweclockers review is correct then it cannot handle HDMI input for 1080p sources @ 24fps let alone how it would cope with 23.976.
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Well a 23.976fps movie at 72.000hz here will shortly desync (hiccup) once every 13seconds...
even when consciously looking for it imperceivable 8 out of 10 times
Compared to running at 71.928hz it is utterly negligible
 
zanardi said:
That is the "old" version. The new one isn't released yet.
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Hmm I wonder what's the Freesync range, if there are any other changes and how to differentiate it from the old Envy 32

Here is a random close up photo of text I made:
http://i4.minus.com/ibjwBUVBm1Qxq0.JPG

You can see that the AMVA+ subpixels (red, green, and blue) are divided into two independently controlled areas (afaik other LCD tech doesn't do that)
Each of the areas is divided into four sections of domains with varying orientation, but its hard to see on the photo (crappy camera)
 
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igluk said:
Well a 23.976fps movie at 72.000hz here will shortly desync (hiccup) once every 13seconds...
even when consciously looking for it imperceivable 8 out of 10 times
Compared to running at 71.928hz it is utterly negligible
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A similar thing was said about Realtek chipset media players but a lot of more discerning people will now not purchase Realtek chipset based players as they drop frames and cause a stutter because they cannot play 23.976fps video correctly.

The Philips monitor in question cannot use anything higher than 63 or 64 Hz frame rates without dropping frames, Therefore it could be dropping frames and/or stuttering due to two reasons which I don't think is going to make the situation any better and could make it more noticeable.
 
Hi. I'm new here and had to register because this forum has the best VA panel discussion than anywhere on the planet.

Been reading this thread for one month now because I've been looking for something to replace my 27" qnix. Can't stand anymore IPS glow and the horrid contrast and black level. So I've been looking into VA and by this thread and confirming my self by reading multiple reviews, it seems that the iiyama is by far the best VA out there on it's price range.


The only concern I have, because I can't go to store and confirm myself how bad is the VA glow and does it actually have any better black level? I literately don't have a glue and some people say that it's even more horrid that IPS glow. This russian review doesn't give the VA panel any better look that the IPS panel I have now in terms of black level and the glow.

iiyma glow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDjuQjCOrSY

qnix glow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99MGdTjwra8

What do you guys make of it?
 
Bohannon said:
Hi. I'm new here and had to register because this forum has the best VA panel discussion than anywhere on the planet.

Been reading this thread for one month now because I've been looking for something to replace my 27" qnix. Can't stand anymore IPS glow and the horrid contrast and black level. So I've been looking into VA and by this thread and confirming my self by reading multiple reviews, it seems that the iiyama is by far the best VA out there on it's price range.


The only concern I have, because I can't go to store and confirm myself how bad is the VA glow and does it actually have any better black level? I literately don't have a glue and some people say that it's even more horrid that IPS glow. This russian review doesn't give the VA panel any better look that the IPS panel I have now in terms of black level and the glow.

iiyma glow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDjuQjCOrSY

qnix glow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99MGdTjwra8

What do you guys make of it?
Click to expand...

Outside of backlight bleed which varies from monitor to monitor VA panel does not "glow", but gamma shifts with viewing angles which gives a sensation that the contrast drops and black level increases. Viewed directly from front and if the monitor is close to you you can see this shift at the edges where in center you have deep strong contrast (and sometimes crushed black details depending on calibration) but left and right edges are not as deep looking. If you push the monitor away from you this effect gets lesser and lesser. In case of TV's, where VA panel is quite common, when they are few meters away from you the horizontal gamma shift is almost nonexistent.
 
MaZa said:
Outside of backlight bleed which varies from monitor to monitor VA panel does not "glow", but gamma shifts with viewing angles which gives a sensation that the contrast drops and black level increases. Viewed directly from front and if the monitor is close to you you can see this shift at the edges where in center you have deep strong contrast (and sometimes crushed black details depending on calibration) but left and right edges are not as deep looking. If you push the monitor away from you this effect gets lesser and lesser. In case of TV's, where VA panel is quite common, when they are few meters away from you the horizontal gamma shift is almost nonexistent.
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Thanks, this clarifies it a lot. So basically the bigger the monitor the more worse it gets since your viewing distance is pretty much constant in front of your desk. I wonder if they are making the big models curved just because of this problem with the technology?


BTW, I found this new BenQ GW2870H monitor by randomly browsing online shops. Couldn't find any reviews or what panel it contains. Started selling in europe last month so it's new model I think?
 
VA contrast loss looks like glow when viewed from less than the "ideal," distance which varies depending on the panel. VA panels indeed suffer from less of "it," (contrast loss/glow), but sit the same distance from their new, large monitors as they do from their 24" monitors and are horrified by the glow/contrast shift. 4k 32" AHVA panels suffer from less glow than most non-TN panels, including much smaller monitors like the newer 23.6" Samsung AD-PLS panels.

Bohannon said:
BTW, I found this new BenQ GW2870H monitor by randomly browsing online shops.
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The 28" VA monitors use inferior panels with less vibrant and accurate colours compared to the 24. 27 and 32" options.
 
So week ago I pulled the trigger and bought iiyma XB2783HSU-B1 after extensive research and mostly because of the info in this thread.

Before I had the famous Korean OC monster Qnix 2710 LED overclocked to 120Hz and calibrated with i1display pro(EODIS3).

I have to say, this has been the best monitor purchase so far even though I was happy at the time on my qnix also. At the time I didn't know the difference on panel technologies and I was "blind". I just listened all those IPS drummers on forums and didn't watch with my own eyes and made decisions based on that. Anyway, the qnix was not bad and I really enjoyed the 120Hz game play experience. But some where on the way I started to get really annoyed on the horrid IPS glow it generated(all the corners were glowing like it had really bad back light bleed even though it did not have any) and the absolutely game braking bad contrast of 940:1(calibrated). Also the resolution became a problem because I don't have high end GPU, 7970 didn't have the grunt for never games at reasonable FPS at 2560x1440 resolution.


So when I switched up the monitors, I checked for dead pixels or back light bleed and found none. And after admiring the high contrast and over bright 300cd/m^2 default picture for few minutes, I fired up CRU and make a OC profile for 75Hz and change the setting from catalyst to 75Hz and it worked straight out of the box. Booted computer and calibrated it with i1display pro colorimeter and dispcalgui 3.0.4.3 + argyll combo.

After calibrating(well actually even before calibrating the differences were apparent) the glow and contrast difference was like day and nigh. To me contrast is single most important aspect of the picture these days. Then comes the pixels, colors and the rest. Even though this VA panel has also some glow towards the corners because of the gamma shift on this size monitor being so close, but it's no where near as bad as in IPS panel. In games you don't even notice it because you basically keep your eyes always on the center of the screen where the glow effect is not apparent. But in movies I see pretty clearly the glow/gamma shift on the corners, because your eyes wander throughout the screen. But still it's no where near as bad as in IPS panel.

So what about glossy vs. semi glossy picture impressions. Well both have their ups and downs and it ultimately becomes to your own preferences. I loved the glossy crisp and clear colors and picture in the night, but the reflections during day were absolutely horrid. The semi glossy picture on the other hand is so much better during daylight gaming and surfing, but the colors are not as vivid and and the picture overall feel more "smudged". Not saying bad, but there is clear difference. So it's a bit mixed bag and there seems to be no clear winner. But I love the high sRGB gamut on this iiyama and the impressions would probably be different if the gamut wouldn't be as high.

Because of the adjustable stand on this iiyama, the monitor now sits 8-10cm closer to my face and the resolution is lower, I can see clear difference on the crispness of text and all that details on the screen. I have to admit, as of now, it's too close and the 1 million less pixels are getting bit on my nerves. Though this is not problem if I wall mount it or get bigger table, so it sits bit further back. I do love high amount of pixels and would have preferred 4K instead any other, but the reality is, there are no 4k monitors, with VA panel, 100+Hz and freesync. Also the GPU grunt to required for enjoyable game play at 4K still looks to be so far ahead that that it's just not viable option at this time. So even though the resolution dropped, I'm happy because of the higher FPS I'm getting now with better GFX setting and AA.



Calibrating settings:

Brightness 25 in the OSD: 100cd/m^2
Contrast 90 in the OSD (default 80)
Overdrive: OD3
Sharpness: 3
DDC/CI: disabled


Result:





The deltaE lands average 0.5 and max 1.72. Contrast land on 2400:1 which is bit disappointing because I was hoping closer to 3000:1. So I guess the Russians were right? They also had contrast measurements on the 2400:1 ballpark.

Question: Not sure how the contrast affect on the result on the monitor since I blindly changed it from the default 80 to 90? Could I boost the contrast by changing back to default 80 and making the measurements again?
 
2600-3000:1 is what most testers got on the 27'' iiyama, so yours is a little bit lower - there might be some panel variance there.
Maybe if you change your target white point you can get a little bit higher. And maybe 75hz gives slightly different results than 60hz.
I have contrast at 85 on the 24'' because above it starts to nuke the near-white levels. Lower contrast settings should mean you get less, not more.
When you set the Backlight to ~90 and the Contrast to ~45 you get a ~100cd/m² brightness and a contrast ratio around IPS/TN levels.
You can enable DDC/CI if you want to use programs like ScreenBright to change your monitor settings from Windows without going into the OSD.
I've also adjusted my gamma curve a bit using Calibrilla, away from the linear curve and more towards a slight S-shape. (brighter in the shadows and darker towards the highlights)
 
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I have a question? I just purchased the benq gw2470hs and I cannot find any calibrated settings from any site. Anyone point me in the right direction?
 
NCX: could you clarify something for me.

Under 28" monitors, you have said that most monitors of that size are not as good as 24" & 27" colour space wise, but according to playwares, that particular monitor they reviewed was 100% sRGB, is that an exception?

This caught my eye, because I didn't expect I'd find a glossy 28" for the same price as a Dell glossy 24"

I also found it odd that they only gave it 7.4, the monitor didn't look that bad.
 
chenw said:
NCX: could you clarify something for me.

Under 28" monitors, you have said that most monitors of that size are not as good as 24" & 27" colour space wise, but according to playwares, that particular monitor they reviewed was 100% sRGB, is that an exception?
Click to expand...

The value Playwares provides is the gamut volume which is a measurement which includes colour space values outside of the of the sRGB colour space, hence the measurements above 100%. Usually sRGB colour space coverage percentages are calculated using only the monitors values which are inside the the sRGB colour space. Most 27" 1440p monitors colour spaces are larger than the sRGB colour space, which is why their gamut volumes are around 110%; Playwares measured 113% for the BenQ GW2765HT. Playwares charts indicate that the GW2470HS can fully cover the sRGB colour space without any over or under coverage, but I'm not sure.

-------

Samsung S32E590C Review by PRAD summary:

+4,000:1+ contrast
+Negligible input lag
+Fast pixel response times with minimal overshoot ghosting (Fast Response Time Setting)
+Fairly Accurate colour presets
+No PWM down to 140cdm/2; 25khz frequency is used below 140cdm/2
+Decent video playback features such as de-interlacing and judder free 60hz playback
-Small & mismatched colour space=<91% sRGB colour space coverage on par with budget IPS aside from the HP 25-27 CW & XW
-Weird text issue: weird colours appear when coloured text is displayed on gray backgrounds.

The low colour space coverage and weird text issue PRAD encountered earns the Samsung a disqualification from the first post.
 
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I had an EW2750ZL delivered yesterday, and I like it a lot. It's much better than my two older VA monitors (Samsung 2333T and S24A650S). Unlike some people here, I like the bezel. On my old monitor, the glossy bezel reflects images on the screen. The color is very good; much better than the 2333T that I'm replacing. The color and black crush are bad enough on my Samsungs that they really need to be used with a profile. This BenQ looks great without a profile. The profile I created last night actually made color a little worse, so I uninstalled it. I have a calibrated ST60 plasma connected to the same PC as this monitor, and color is extremely similar on the displays. Unlike the PCMonitors reviewer, I'm not really detecting any black crush on this monitor. Near-black gamma curves low, not high, and I can distinguish every step down to 17 on a black clip pattern. I suppose the steps below 20 are perhaps a bit too dark, but that's nitpicky. My older VA monitors have "real" black crush that needs profile correction. The identical Standard and User picture modes are the only modes that can be fully adjusted, and for some reason, gamma is set very high by default in most picture modes (around 2.7). Gamma points on my monitor are not as described in the PCM review. A gamma setting of 1 gives me an average gamma of 2.28. The monitor has pretty good color temperature with the default settings, but the brightness control impacts color temperature. The PCM reviewer lowered blue gain to 95 for a brightness of 50. I lowered blue to 92 with a brightness of 34. The more you lower the brightness, the more you will need to lower blue gain to maintain a color temp of 6500K. The saturation control appears to impact hue, but I didn't mess with it too much. Uniformity is good. Gamma shift seems to be about the same as my other VA monitors. Response time is slightly better, but not much.

Contrast ratio: 3623:1 on/off, 3486:1 ANSI
Gray Scale average dE: 0.52 (max 1.00)
Primary and secondary average dE: 1.54 (max 2.76)
Color Checker average dE: 0.96 (max 2.26)

Picture Mode: Standard (or User)
Brightness: 34 (~120 cd/m2)
Contrast: 50
Sharpness: 5
Gamma: 1
Color Temperature: User Define
R: 100
G: 100
B: 92
Black Level: 16
Saturation: 50

gamma.png


rgb.png


shifts.png
 
anyone have an opinion on the S24E510C?
the description says "Eye Saver Mode optimizes your viewing comfort by reducing blue light emissions and flickers at the touch of a button" but not sure if it just reduces flickers or is flicker-free
 
haka3l said:
Does anyone having this strange shimmering in games , mostly in dark places or games on youtube also recorded at night so it's not driver/game fault. Monitor is XB2783HSU, please don't tell me it's a feature of AMVA+.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqfp35SY2qM
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If you are talking about dark colors "smearing" or ghosting during movement, then that is definitely a hallmark of VA. VA displays have poor response times when transitioning between dark shades. Because of the color scheme of this forum, you'll see these colors smearing if you scroll the pages on a VA monitor. Although some are better than others, I think this will be a noticeable flaw with any VA display.
 
That black and white landscape full of small details is exactly what VAs 'fear' the most, pixel-response-time-wise.
 
So as i feared it's a "feature" :/. The only thing is strange to me is that movies are perfect, even in darkest scenes and details, only in games or recorded and watched that pixel respone is killing me.
Oh well going back to my Mitsubishi 2070sb for another 10 years of gaming. That iiyama will stay for movies and ps4.
 
It's the most important weakness of VA panels yes, but again in that particular case you're really trying it in a worst cas scenario.
Not noticing the same weakness in most other situations is normal.

By the way; I sure hope you have tried the various overdrive settings ?
Those are meant to compensate for that kind of stuff, to some extent, more or less efficiently...

Anyway in many cases even using overdrive VA panels aren't recommended for video games with fast-moving elements (like most 3D games).
 
haka3l said:
Overdrive 1,2,3 no difference and it's the opposite of fast moving. Just pan the camera an inch and flickering starts. Tried every input, setttings, gpu, same effect.
There is also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Z8rxsTZ0o which is fine on both crt and led.
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Again it happens only when the requirements are met (specific colour and contrast strenghths, immediacy of transition, etc) slight tonal differences can make big pixel response differences, that FA4 night mission video is not quite the same as the first one you've linked.
When all conditions are met for it to happen, then any movement will be 'too fast', but I was saying 'fast' as a general rule considering playing 3D games on VA's, not just for that scene in particular.
If that's the only type of games you play you will see it happen from time-to-time, if you can't live with it then resell the monitor and next time buy at least an IPS, there are plenty fast-enough for the job today (the black/dark areas will look washed-out/grey though, pick your poison as they say ;) ).
 
So I did created another topic but Then found this one.

I sit closely to the screen, so I guess 27' would create too much glow/uniformity right ?
Then I guess I am looking for 24 incher with good blacks to replace my ips u2312hm. Benq or iiyama?
Any of those support 4:3 aspect ratio mode ?
 
OK, update. Just noticed in some review on youtube that Benq monitors do have aspect ratio option so thats dealt with. I guess I will have to go with BenQ GW2470H from the front page then. All specs online state that its va panel while I thought its amva+
 
HiCZoK said:
OK, update. Just noticed in some review on youtube that Benq monitors do have aspect ratio option so thats dealt with. I guess I will have to go with BenQ GW2470H from the front page then. All specs online state that its va panel while I thought its amva+
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The GW2470H does use an AMVA+ panel.

There was a fairly new review review of the BenQ GW2870H which is a 28" version of the GW2470H. It's not the most complete and in depth of reviews but slightly above the most basic. It rates fairly decent for the low price, however at 28" it is a little too large for a FullHD 1080p display.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/benq-gw2870h-review
 
**MaRVeL** said:
The GW2470H does use an AMVA+ panel.

There was a fairly new review review of the BenQ GW2870H which is a 28" version of the GW2470H. It's not the most complete and in depth of reviews but slightly above the most basic. It rates fairly decent for the low price, however at 28" it is a little too large for a FullHD 1080p display.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/benq-gw2870h-review
Click to expand...

Thanks for answer. 28 is indeed much for 1080p but I could go for 24 gw2470h. Its cheaper than iiyama and seems the same actually... Except iiyama have bad osd menu.
Not sure if its an upgrade from my dell u2312hm tho. But i really want good blacks and panel uniformity backight after all those years.
 
The GW2470H is meant to be a pretty decent monitor at least according to the one good review of it which is in Korean. The Delta E is pretty good as it is on the 28" although I am not certain that they use the panel type. The BenQ site says AMVA+ for the GW2470H but says VA for the 28", not that that means that much based upon the accuracy of the BenQ site.

I am trying to decide on a monitor myself and I went to look at a few monitors a couple of nights back. 24" looked small, tiny which is making me think that it might be too small but 28" I do not want with FullHD as it is too large but I would need t look at another BenQ model for a 27" variety VA panel..
 
Well 24 is alright size for 1080p and price is very good on this monitor. I would only consider iiyama as its competitor but its more expensive
 
I am sorry to double post but I have one more question before ordering gw2470h. (will order it online, so I can send it back anyway)
It have 2 hdmi and one vga inputs + audio output.

How does pc connects to it vs my current dvi Dell u2312hm ips?
I have e10k for my sound needs, but should I connect it with hdmi-hdmi cable or dvi-hdmi cable ?

edit: Just heads up - I did orered Benq gw2470h. Just because its newest monitor and it's recommended. Will check it out and send back in worst case. Should be here in 3-4 days
 
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Hey guys,so I got a benq bl3200pt. No dead or stuck pixels but it seems that there is some slight banding on a grey screen. Or for instance when im playing a flight sim and in a clear sky i can see it slightly while turning. My question is should I try and get another one or should i just be happy? is it very hit and miss with the banding? I should also mention this is my second one. My first one was a refurb direct from benq for $380. that one had terrible banding and a few stuck pixels. so benq was kind enough to send me a brand new one for replacement. the build date on the replacement was oct 2015. So i guess I just dont know how much i should expect and for $380 on top of that.

the main area is directly under the color selected on ms paint. note that there is obvious gama shift going on at the bottom so that is not of a concern.
hs8bDG3.jpg
 
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Thats really difficult to see from the image. What brightness are You at ?
edit: oh nevermind, see You also posted in other thread
 
@MACK-ATTACK
If you read amazon reviews on the main amazon sites ie .com .co.uk and maybe some of the other none English European Amazon sites you will see that there are quite a few that write reviews complaining about banding on the BenQ PL3200PT so it might be worth starting by reading them yourself. I did not like what I read so I struck it off my list quite early.

I cannot see the banding but that is not saying much with the screen that I am forced to use ATM as I just cannot judge anything quality wise, I am lucky to be able to read anything it's so crap. I do see a sort of plume just off centre of the screen going up and down but that could just be my screen as I have seen a similar thing when looking at other pictures of screens.

The BenQ PL3200PT is far inferior to the Philips BDM3270QP which has some very decent reviews even though I believe that it uses the same panel as the BenQ PL3200PT. The Philips is quite a bit more expensive however and might not be widely available in the States yet.

@HiCZoK I think that you should connect it via HDMi so that you get sound to the screen, then you will be able to use headphones or get the sound from any media more easily. I would be very interested in your experiences of the monitor.
 
edit: ohhh nevermind. I just requested money refund for gw2470h because they didnt had it in stock afterall. Ordered it from other place
 
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