Best Reviewed A-MVA Monitor Thread: Read the 1st Post

Nicholars said:
It seems the AUO MVA screens are not as good as the PVA screens.... My TV is a Sony/Samsung SPVA screen and it has no glow at all and the blacks are good... Is there not anything like this in 24/27" pc monitors? PVA instead of MVA? or are they all AUO MVA these days? As it is made by Samsung I think they still make their own panels (instead of AUO)?

This one looks good in the pictures... http://wecravegamestoo.com/forums/m...0p-review-1920x1080-72hz-semi-glossy-mva.html But then most of the screens in those reviews look good (very saturated with good blacks even on the IPS screens) so maybe it is the camera?
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You're likely using your TV from a distance to which it doesn't suffer from obvious head-on gamma shift. Sitting further away, as I said, will alleviate the issue entirely. A lot of the issues I had with the BL3200PT was also due to the fact that I was using it slightly off angle (this added more obvious glow due to gamma-shift/poor viewing angles.)

I will never understand the obsession with VA panels for computer monitors when gamma-shift is still a rampant issue. Proper room lighting + a bias light makes the contrast difference between VA and IPS panels entirely negligible and helps alleviate IPS glow.
 
Nikyo said:
You're likely using your TV from a distance to which it doesn't suffer from obvious head-on gamma shift. Sitting further away, as I said, will alleviate the issue entirely. A lot of the issues I had with the BL3200PT was also due to the fact that I was using it slightly off angle (this added more obvious glow due to gamma-shift/poor viewing angles.)

I will never understand the obsession with VA panels for computer monitors when gamma-shift is still a rampant issue. Proper room lighting + a bias light makes the contrast difference between VA and IPS panels entirely negligible and helps alleviate IPS glow.
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Maybe I will get an IPS for the nice colors and viewing angles but I wanted a VA screen for the blacks and contrast, but it seems with the AUO MVA screens the colors are not better than IPS and the blacks are not even much better due to the glow... I don't think it is the viewing angle it is the different manufacturers.. the AUO MVA screens have a bad glow (I had a TV with an AUO MVA screen and it was similar) and the sony/samsung SPVA screens made a few years ago have better blacks and almost no glow, ah well I will probably wait for a 120hz IPS screen or might try one of the AUO VA first but it looks like I might be disappointed with the 3000:1 contrast not actually looking like 3000:1 because of the glow on them.
 
Nicholars said:
Maybe I will get an IPS for the nice colors and viewing angles but I wanted a VA screen for the blacks and contrast, but it seems with the AUO MVA screens the colors are not better than IPS and the blacks are not even much better due to the glow... I don't think it is the viewing angle it is the different manufacturers.. the AUO MVA screens have a bad glow (I had a TV with an AUO MVA screen and it was similar) and the sony/samsung SPVA screens made a few years ago have better blacks and almost no glow, ah well I will probably wait for a 120hz IPS screen or might try one of the AUO VA first but it looks like I might be disappointed with the 3000:1 contrast not actually looking like 3000:1 because of the glow on them.
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Uh, no. They glow because of gamma-shift, or the monitor brightness is too high. The BL3200PT (same contrast/panel) was fine when viewed head-on from 120cm away.

The intent of S-PVA panels was actually to eliminate gamma-shift, and I've found that my older Samsung C6300 has better viewing than my Sony W800B (AMVA5). S-PVA panels supposedly have decreased sharpness due to it's dual sub-pixel structure. I am, however, no expert and I do not know if this still applies in the year of 2015.

And again, proper lighting makes IPS black depth issues negligible. Hell, a bias light will even help VA black depth.
 
Nikyo said:
Uh, no. They glow because of gamma-shift, or the monitor brightness is too high. The BL3200PT (same contrast/panel) was fine when viewed head-on from 120cm away.

The intent of S-PVA panels was actually to eliminate gamma-shift, and I've found that my older Samsung C6300 has better viewing than my Sony W800B (AMVA5). S-PVA panels supposedly have decreased sharpness due to it's dual sub-pixel structure. I am, however, no expert and I do not know if this still applies in the year of 2015.

And again, proper lighting makes IPS black depth issues negligible. Hell, a bias light will even help VA black depth.
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I mean the glow on a fully black screen, which might be the same thing but it certainly looks a lot more obvious on the new AUO screens than it does on the older SPVA screens. I don't know why exactly but my Sony HX723 has great viewing angles and no black glow, it is one of the old Sony/Samsung SPVA screens with a sony glossy coating on it... Certainly none of the glow that I see in some photos of the new AUO screens... But it could be the camera exposure making it look a lot worse than it actually is. Also the coating makes a big difference so it could be that as well don't know. If I could have the same PQ as my TV on a 27" PC monitor with low input lag that would be ideal but doesn't look like that exists...
 
Nicholars said:
I mean the glow on a fully black screen, which might be the same thing but it certainly looks a lot more obvious on the new AUO screens than it does on the older SPVA screens.
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What do you think I'm talking about exactly?

Again, I've explained why there is a potential difference and why this happens. NCX has also explained why the pictures/video posted from =DEAD='s review are an inaccurate representation.

But, for that matter, I've actually owned both an S-PVA panel and two MVA panels; there's no difference outside of viewing angles.
 
Nikyo said:
What do you think I'm talking about exactly?

Again, I've explained why there is a potential difference and why this happens. NCX has also explained why the pictures/video posted from =DEAD='s review are an inaccurate representation.

But, for that matter, I've actually owned both an S-PVA panel and two MVA panels; there's no difference outside of viewing angles.
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Maybe it is the exposure on the photos then but all I can say is looking at my Sony 40HX723 SPVA screen now the viewing angles on light / medium content looks about the same as the AUO monitors. The black levels / lack of that glow looks very obviously better on the Sony TV... I think it is the sony coating that makes it look better, but I had an AUO MVA TV (toshiba cevo) which had a glossy coating also and that still had a grey / silvery glow over blacks whereas the sony/samsung SPVA screens don't.
 
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Long time lurker, first time poster. I purchased the asus vn29ql or whatever the one with the better stand is called a few months back. This thread popped back up so I wished to say thank you to ncx and others. I was a good boy and used the hardocp Amazon link. :D

I will admit to not having done much with it besides turn down brightness. It looks good to me with no whine noise and I'm using evga gtx 780 ti with display port cable. I imagine at some point I will pony up for a calibration tool to see what I'm missing.

I just wanted to say I hope this thread for mva monitors continues as I'd like to get a good 1440p or 4k monitor at the end of the year to play star citizen and other games that benefit from better contrast and blacks. Cheers all and thanks for all the great monitor information.
 
Bit the bullet and bought a Benq Bl3200Pt to check the black level.

Blacks are definitely better than the Iiyama X2783HSU, by a good margin.
Gamma shift is negligible, which was a surprise considering the screen size.

Very impressed by the difference between those panels, considering the contrast ratio is pretty similar (~2500).
 
I dont really mind the gamma shift as long as it doesnt show when im sitting in front of the screen.
My Benq unit is nearly perfect in that regard. Even from the sides, it only shows minor shift.

What i really cannot stand is greyish blacks, especially on a VA screen set at ~20% brightness.

The Iiyama itself doesnt exhibit any bleeding, nor extreme gamma shift discrepancies. It just has grey blacks, as if the brightness setting was turned all the way up.
 
Cyanix said:
Bit the bullet and bought a Benq Bl3200Pt to check the black level.

Blacks are definitely better than the Iiyama X2783HSU, by a good margin.
Gamma shift is negligible, which was a surprise considering the screen size.

Very impressed by the difference between those panels, considering the contrast ratio is pretty similar (~2500).
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Shame about the input lag on it or I would buy one of those as well.
 
The input lag isnt bad actually, it's more the pixel response which is inferior to TN screens and very fast IPS.

Still as fast as other VAs though.
 
Cyanix said:
I dont really mind the gamma shift as long as it doesnt show when im sitting in front of the screen.
My Benq unit is nearly perfect in that regard. Even from the sides, it only shows minor shift.

What i really cannot stand is greyish blacks, especially on a VA screen set at ~20% brightness.

The Iiyama itself doesnt exhibit any bleeding, nor extreme gamma shift discrepancies. It just has grey blacks, as if the brightness setting was turned all the way up.
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I'm kind of wondering if the Iiyama has some kind of HDMI black level setting turned on in the OSD by default? That would be a good way to ruin black levels. If you still own it, try looking around for something.
 
Nikyo said:
I'm kind of wondering if the Iiyama has some kind of HDMI black level setting turned on in the OSD by default? That would be a good way to ruin black levels. If you still own it, try looking around for something.
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As incredible as it may sound I've been told by colleagues in after-sales that it still happens a lot; customers return monitors because they complain about the washed-out colors and awful contrast/blacks that don't match the advertised specs at all, when they actually owned an nVidia card and weren't aware of the nVidia HDMI bug.
Of course it can happen that they get a crappy unit or whatever, but most of the time it's because of wrong drivers/settings.
I know several people who own the AMVA+ displays mentioned in this thread, the Asus, BenQ, Samsung, and Iiyama, and none of them ever complained about poor blacks. Go figure, we can't analyze every single unit/situation easily just from message boards...
Blame nVidia, console manufacturers, monitor manufacturers, whoever is responsible for very little mistakes that shouldn't be in the first place, but blame them even more for not advertising enough about simple fixes that actually do exist in many cases.
 
Dunno maybe it's been fixed since then but not so long ago with many nVidia GPU's and many monitors you had to use this little utility to force real full-range RGB output: http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?p=83
Normally the issue was only with HDMI, but sometimes it happens over DP, dunno about DVI...

EDIT: yeah apparently it was implemented in 347.09
 
So my Colormunki Display arrived and ive been messing around with my s24c750. After calibration, everything is looking solid. Contrast ratio of 2950 makes me wanna cry. I cant see myself using TN or IPS's ever again. Im a casual gamer and still don't notice any input lag when gaming or gamma shift when viewing are relatively safe angles.

The ONLY thing i am troubled about is how my colors gets all washed out when i overclock the monitor to 75Hz. Is this normal? ive checked whilst at 75Hz ,to make sure RGB mode is set to 'Full' in the NV control panel.
 
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b0uncyfr0 said:
The ONLY thing i am troubled about is how my colors gets all washed out when i overclock the monitor to 75Hz. Is this normal? ive checked whilst at 75Hz ,to make sure RGB mode is set to 'Full' in the NV control panel.
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Are the colors fine when you don't overclock it?
I'm looking for 27" monitor with very vibrant colors. I returned the Dell S2715H mostly because of it's awfuly washed out colors. Now I'm considering X2783HSU mostly because the last monitor that colors I really liked was Dell 2407WFP with S-PVA panel. Any suggestions?
 
Have you tried using custom timings?
Toastyx posted some examples here:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038342324&postcount=6

To get to 75/76hz on my AMVA+ I have to reduce the total pixels until the pixel clock is below 165mhz and also reduce the horizontal front porch and horizontal sync width by half. (otherwise I get "out of range")
If you are connected via HDMI you could try if it is any different via DVI.
If its working and the image looks normal, you should test for frameskipping here:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping
 
b0uncyfr0 said:
So my Colormunki Display arrived and ive been messing around with my s24c750. After calibration, everything is looking solid. Contrast ratio of 2950 makes me wanna cry. I cant see myself using TN or IPS's ever again. Im a casual gamer and still don't notice any input lag when gaming or gamma shift when viewing are relatively safe angles.

The ONLY thing i am troubled about is how my colors gets all washed out when i overclock the monitor to 75Hz. Is this normal? ive checked whilst at 75Hz ,to make sure RGB mode is set to 'Full' in the NV control panel.
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Overclocking a monitor will generally cause the gamma to rise, make sure you're calibrating it after it's been overclocked.

Also, check out the stuff igluk posted above.
 
igluk said:
Have you tried using custom timings?
To get to 75/76hz on my AMVA+
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I dont have any problems getting to 75Hz with the 'Automatic' Timing. Tested with frameskipping and its perfectly fine except for the gamma rising as Nikyo mentioned. I didint know that was a thing.

Im not looking to go further either so ill have to calibrate with the overclock and compare it to the 60Hz calibration. Whichever produces the best results wins i guess.
 
Interesting, mine behaves differently. Same AUO panel but different monitor (iiyama), different electronics..guess thats the explanation.
With automatic timings (Nvidia) I cannot go above 66hz, just a black screen with out of range message, sometimes even the graphics drivers crash.
On the other hand I do not have any rise in gamma - I can set it to 60hz then 50hz, then to 76hz and the image always stays exactly the same.
The Overdrive stays the same so ghosting in tests becomes more noticeable the higher the refresh rate is (and inverse ghosting is reduced), probably due to the reduced time a frame is displayed. (50hz 20ms, 60hz 16ms, 75hz 13ms)
 
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b0uncyfr0 said:
The ONLY thing i am troubled about is how my colors gets all washed out when i overclock the monitor to 75Hz. Is this normal?
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One of the 1080p monitors (Samsung S24D590PL) I tested last years colours were dramatically different at 72hz vs 75hz, so try using 72hz and measuring the gamma with HCFR.

Jack_0Neill said:
I'm looking for 27" monitor with very vibrant colors. I returned the Dell S2715H mostly because of it's awfully washed out colors. Now I'm considering X2783HSU mostly because the last monitor that colors I really liked was Dell 2407WFP with S-PVA panel. Any suggestions?
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The 2407 is a wide gamut monitor which over-saturates colours and vastly decreases colour accuracy unless used with programs which support colour management. Did you connect the Dell via HDMI to a Nvidia GPU and make sure to use this patch or the newest drivers?
 
Nikyo said:
Overclocking a monitor will generally cause the gamma to rise, make sure you're calibrating it after it's been overclocked..
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After an hour of calibration , it looks like 75hz comes with some disadvantages. First off 75hz makes the screen much duller and dirtier so to speak, which needs more brightness and contrast to get it up to 120 cd/m2. Because of that the contrast ratio takes a big hit ;it boils down to 2250:1 for 75Hz and 2960:1 for 60Hz.

That's quite a drop. What do you guys think? Im leaning towards 60 Hz since i can barely push that fps in games. I mainly wanted 75hz for the desktop since it makes it a bit smoother in my eyes.

If only there was a way to switch them on the fly, that would be magic!!
 
What about black crush? My sony VA tv has horrible black crush in the center of the screen if I try and lower gamma.
 
Pechendko said:
What about black crush?
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Almost Non-Existant on my s24c750. Gamma shift is subtle but still noticeable on VERY extreme angles that i would use with a monitor. Head tilting in front of the screen does not change anything on my screen.
 
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NCX said:
TFT Central re-confirms that the Qnix QX32xQHD monitor is a first class POS. The unit TFT Central tested is delay free unlike Playerwares which has a 39ms delay, also lacks proper brightness controls and has half the contrast of the unit Playerwares reviewed. Avoid like the plague.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/qnix_qx320qhd.htm
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you forgot to mention the lack of overdrive/RTC circuits makes it pixels behave like 8y ago VA panels:mad:
 
KDE said:
noticed on last page of manual for IIYAMA VA monitors that DVI is not compliant with VGA text modes (640x350, 720x400)
http://www.iiyama.com/gl_en/products/prolite-x2483hsu-1/12817.download
Does text mode work over HDMI?
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at least on the xb2483hsu, if I input 640x350@60hz or 720x400@60 as custom resolutions in nvidia cp its working fine, 640x350@70 or 720x400@70 also works with manual or reduced timings
not sure if you meant that? using DVI cable btw.
 
I've been told on tftcentral that all va panels have black crush. It's a technology limitation, the way how the pixels aligned. Is that true?
 
igluk said:
at least on the xb2483hsu, if I input 640x350@60hz or 720x400@60 as custom resolutions in nvidia cp its working fine, 640x350@70 or 720x400@70 also works with manual or reduced timings
not sure if you meant that? using DVI cable btw.
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that manual probably means text modes like 80x25, 80x43, 80x50
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA-compatible_text_mode
some applications like Memtest, DOS based firmware updaters and also my bios in some cases still use text mode
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memtest86
 
Pechendko said:
I've been told on tftcentral that all va panels have black crush. It's a technology limitation, the way how the pixels aligned. Is that true?
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yes and no, the problem is mainly the quick change of brightness (gamma shift) of the darkest halftones when you move your head around.
it causes a kind of glare on levels 1-20, like on photo paper.
whether the lowest dark tones disappear within the viewing cone depends on the gamma of the screen, if I set my gamma to 2.2 I can make out all squares in the lagom test
I have it set to ~2.35 now for desktop which is my preference and black squares are distinguishable from 3 onwards in a dark room, 3-5 are very dark, 1 and 2 are crushed inside the viewing cone, white saturation fully distinguishable until 254
I configure games with sweetfx, most useful is liftgammagain, usually so that the darkest halftones are just barely distinguishable from black.
some games apparently intend a degree of black crush with their "barely visible" and "not visible" calibration screens, I always ignore that and set it so that "not visible" and "barely visible" are both barely visible and it does not cause a washed out image.
for movies I usually boost gamma a bit with nvidia video settings, how it has to be set exactly varies constantly depending on the source material

KDE said:
some applications like Memtest, DOS based firmware updaters and also my bios in some cases still use text mode
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memtest86
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I still have a memtest86 disc lying around somewhere, I can try it out later
 
TDSlam720 said:
I disagree with this, there's plenty of crush looking center of the screen. As a Star Citizen player it's very apparent. Can barely seem my ship at times.
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Please apologize me for daring to ask: have you tried to calibrate the display to pass the linked black test? I believe that any AMVA newer than benq's GW2x50 is capable of passing it.

And this without considering the VA panel used on the Philips 40" 4k, which has practically no horizontal gamma shift
 
Received my BenQ EW2740L on Monday .. so psyched to get it hooked up and seeeeeee .... the cracked screen that it displayed !! Oh HELL NO !! Are you sh*tting me ??!!??!!

1) Log in to Amazon - request RMA
2) Fill out RMA for from BenQ
3) Submit RMA form and invoice
4) Receive a mailer daemon bounceback 5 minutes later stating the BenQ RMA email address (included in my RMA form !!) was invalid
5) Contact BenQ and get the correct email addy for RMA submission ([email protected], BTW)
6) Hook up old reliable 23" TN Acer panel. Bitch and moan.

I'm stumped as to how it cracked. The box was pristine - no marks on it. The panel was packed quite well, altho the base was able to move around behind the 2" thick bubble wrap that encased the panel. Even so, I made the right decision on my choice - the text was readable and not pixelated at native 1920x1080, the colors were crisp (well, other than the rainbow lines over 3/4 of the image) and I loved the size of it. Many thanks to NCX for his recommendation. Now its just a matter of dealing with RMA and purchasing another BenQ panel.
 
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