Best Reviewed A-MVA Monitor Thread: Read the 1st Post

Does the VN289Q suffer from the slow pixel response that seems to happen with every single Benq VA monitor it seems.







And not on this Samsung VA

 
Don't know but so far those Innolux panels haven't been the fastest to put it nicely.
At least the 23.6 version is extremely slow, see the XB2481HS video. Page 13 of this thread has many videos.
Asus usually has good overdrive (TraceFree) you could try your luck.
There are different versions of the 28'' panels, the M280HKJ-L30 and P02 with standard gamut and the L50 with wider gamut and apparently better contrast too, but that's only used in the GC2870H it appears.
The Samsungs also aren't safe from it, there is a video, that shows the same effect on the C27F591 but the fastest overdrive settings makes it much less apparent.
Different gamma, black levels, panel temperature (!), image sharpness, refresh rate can also have an effect on how strong it is.
 
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Here is a fresh AOC U3277PWQU review
AOC U3277PWQU Review - PC Monitors

It's also using an Innolux panel, the first of its kind (31.5'' 4k VA with wider gamut)
Looks like this one has no problems with the dark transitions, but some issues against white backgrounds and slightly below average general reponse. High input lag as well.
Haven't had time to read full review yet. But no proper sRGB emulation (85%, lol) so you're stuck with oversaturated colours.

The native gamut is actually pretty close to DCI-P3:
https://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/AOC-U3277PWQU-colour-gamut-test.png
https://dotcolordotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/pantone_2013_dot_color.png
 
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Guys can anyone tell me what is the difference between these.. All of them are available at almost the exact same cost.

LG 24MP88
LG 24MP88HM
LG 24MP88HM - S
 
Waiting for the C24FG70 to release feels like an eternity.
I've lost some motivation to play any games until I have my new monitor since it's going to be such an upgrade.
I just want it to be mid October already, I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas. Super 1st world problems.

If Samsung just makes it blur as little as their current least blurry VA's, we'll have god damn perfection.
144hz
1920x1080 on a smaller 24" screen so we get some degree of pixel density
125% sRGB and the curve might be real nice

Just overdrive it properly, none of this a mile above or below the sweet spot shit options.

Stop doing things lazily and wrong just because you think nobody will care to notice, 99% of companies.
"Eh, good enough, they'll buy it" - 99% of companies
I guess it's true, how many people buy their monitor off of whether overdrive/blur is garbage or not?
Most people probably wouldn't even understand the question.

You become informed enough about any type of product and you realize more and more how much better everything could and should be.
 
I thought about buying a TN 144hz to play games, and a VA (or even IPS) for everything else. I can fit them both on the desk but I don't like turning to the side to play and I don't need two monitors.

I just want a good VA that is over 60hz without major issues, the size doesnt matter this time. The Samsung C24FG70 has many things that aren't ideal to me but it's the closest one to what I want.
 
If Samsung just makes it blur as little as their current least blurry VA's said:
VA panels are useless above 120hz , as you said, proper overdrive matters more than anything else.
1920x1080 at 24" is still very low PPI compared to the mainstream 110PPI of IPS panels, present from 20" 1080p all the way to 40" 4k.
125%sRGB is moronic without a proper sRGB LUT. The second worst thing they could do to a VA panel: remove the perfect sRGB coverage that VAs have today.
24"VA and curve on the same sentence. ONE CAN NOT FAIL MORE EPIC THAN THIS.
Click to expand...
 
We'll see how Samsung will overdrive their own VA tech, maybe the miracle finally happens and they manage to keep response times low across all transitions.
They haven't released a dedicated gaming display in a long while, but their TN panels were some of the best back then.
The C27F591 did come with an sRGB LUT, but they took it too far and it ended up with some undercoverage. (96%)
 
I can't even properly quote geoking because their post is so broken.
Saying anything above 120hz is useless is about the most retarded thing you could say, it doesn't matter if it's the blurriest panel to have ever existed, 144hz or higher will still be a noticeable improvement.
I'm aware 1920x1080 on 24" isn't amazing PPI, but 24" and 27" are by far the most common sizes. 24" is about as small as you're going to get for a 144hz+ monitor, so this is best case scenario for 1920x1080.
Since when do VA's have perfect sRGB coverage, nearly every single one of them has undercoverage...
The curve is arguably not useless, you can still see color shift on 24" displays, though it definitely isn't going to be a huge difference.

Your post is one of the stupidest things I've read in this entire topic.

Also, 144hz IPS all have higher PPI because they're all at least 2560x1440, which NOBODY needs if they're trying to drive 144hz.
Unless you're SLI with 980 Ti's or better, you want 1920x1080 144hz+
More res = less fps = not the point of owning a 144hz+ monitor.
Lowering the res on a 2560x1440 monitor to maintain 144hz will make things look worse than just having a native 1920x1080.
 
igluk said:
We'll see how Samsung will overdrive their own VA tech, maybe the miracle finally happens and they manage to keep response times low across all transitions.
They haven't released a dedicated gaming display in a long while, but their TN panels were some of the best back then.
The C27F591 did come with an sRGB LUT, but they took it too far and it ended up with some undercoverage. (96%)
Click to expand...

Since they haven't been throwing out gaming monitors non-stop and its their first in years, I'm hoping that means they'll actually pay attention and take the time to do it right.
It should be overdriven as well or better than their current best overdriven VA's.
There's really no excuse for them to botch the job on the C24FG70 when they've succeeded on their other VA's, though not all of them.

If they're going to overdrive another one of their VA panels well, this is the one to make sure they do it on.
If they do screw it up, I'm expecting they will have gone too aggressive with overdrive, which will suck if the next highest setting is way lower and blurrier.

I'm not an expert on overdrive or how they implement it, but I really wish users could have far more control over the settings. If we could just fine tune it everything would be fine.
The issue is we're always stuck with like, off, medium, high. High is usually too high and medium is usually too low, and something in between would have been fine.
If we could have like a 0-100 slider that would solve it, but I guess there's complications that stop that from being possible.
So we have to rely on Samsung and BenQ and others to do their calibration properly which it seems they are rarely able to do.
 
How is the samsung C24F390 for casual gaming and non competitive fps? I play dota 2, gta V, witcher 3, and alien isolation, and going to try battlefield 1.
 
Stay away from the 23.6'' Super MVA panels, they are very slow (>50ms) and can't be properly overdriven, have the backlight on the left side and have slight sRGB undercoverage in red.
They are made by InnoLux, not ViewSonic. (M236HJJ-XXX)

Обзор и тестирование ЖК-монитора ViewSonic VG2437Smc на матрице MVA и со встроенной веб-камерой

Ne0nLight said:
How is the samsung C24F390 for casual gaming and non competitive fps? I play dota 2, gta V, witcher 3, and alien isolation, and going to try battlefield 1.
Click to expand...

It's good enough, about the same level of speed as the other two recent curved Samsung (C27F391 and C27F591) and it also has Freesync. (48-72Hz)
 
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How good the input lag and response time is?
Is there any gama shift like the one in the BenQ GW2470H
 
Input lag is low, response times are okay-ish
I've linked some Samsung reviews on previous pages
All VA panels have some degree of gamma shift
 
igluk said:
Stay away from the 23.6'' Super MVA panels, they are very slow (>50ms) and can't be properly overdriven, have the backlight on the left side and have slight sRGB undercoverage in red.
They are made by InnoLux, not ViewSonic. (M236HJJ-XXX)

Обзор и тестирование ЖК-монитора ViewSonic VG2437Smc на матрице MVA и со встроенной веб-камерой



It's good enough, about the same level of speed as the other two recent curved Samsung (C27F391 and C27F591) and it also has Freesync. (48-72Hz)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the answer!! Much appreciated.

I have been following this thread and I appreciate your input in it.

Is the 27 inch Iiyama the same panel as the 24 inch? I want the 24 inch but Amazon take a month to dispatch them, so I may go for the 27 inch.
 
For those interested, I asked Iiyama via email about the differences between the XB2483HSU-B1 and XB2483HSU-B2. They responded:

The XB2483HSU-B1 is End Of Life and we don't sell this model anymore.

The replacement XB2483HSU-B2 was a panel change but without any spec changes.
Click to expand...

The B1 is labeled as AMVA+ while B2 is just AMVA. I wonder if the B1 has a superior panel. Also the 27" model is still AMVA+.
 
Thanks!
Yeah we had this already - the B1 was using discontinued M240HVN02.1 panel, B2 is using current M238HVN01.0.
Both are AMVA+, both panels have identical specs on paper, except for the size difference.
But the B1 was slightly superior, it had way better out-of-box calibration and has higher max brightness (~300 nits vs ~240 nits)
It was also faster with overdrive off and had slightly higher contrast, but the B2 still attains the 3000:1 as per spec.
On the B2, you can set a stronger, slightly more effective overdrive. Don't know how the dark transition compares. (0%-20%)
The version with DP also supports 75hz by default, and does not require manual overclocking timings like the B1.

Comparison table

The 27'' is using the same AMVA+ panels as the 27'' BenQ monitors, but I don't know which version exactly.
 
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igluk said:
Input lag is low, response times are okay-ish
I've linked some Samsung reviews on previous pages
All VA panels have some degree of gamma shift
Click to expand...
Am i going to enjoy the witcher 3 more in this monitor compared to IPS monitor or gaming TN in this price range ($180-200ish)?
All i know is that Samsung C24F390 color reproduction is similar with IPS and offer deeper black and decent for gaming. But then i read this thread and it seems like VA have terrible gamma shift :(
 
Ne0nLight said:
Am i going to enjoy the witcher 3 more in this monitor compared to IPS monitor or gaming TN in this price range ($180-200ish)?
All i know is that Samsung C24F390 color reproduction is similar with IPS and offer deeper black and decent for gaming. But then i read this thread and it seems like VA have terrible gamma shift :(
Click to expand...

You'll have to see for yourself, some can't stand the IPS glow or TN viewing angle issues and think the VA gamma shift is the lesser evil. Others can't stand VA panels no matter what.
Contrast ratio of the C24 is ~2500:1, so about twice as high as a good IPS.
 
Hunched said:
I can't even properly quote geoking because their post is so broken.
Saying anything above 120hz is useless is about the most retarded thing you could say, it doesn't matter if it's the blurriest panel to have ever existed, 144hz or higher will still be a noticeable improvement.
I'm aware 1920x1080 on 24" isn't amazing PPI, but 24" and 27" are by far the most common sizes. 24" is about as small as you're going to get for a 144hz+ monitor, so this is best case scenario for 1920x1080.
Since when do VA's have perfect sRGB coverage, nearly every single one of them has undercoverage...
The curve is arguably not useless, you can still see color shift on 24" displays, though it definitely isn't going to be a huge difference.

Your post is one of the stupidest things I've read in this entire topic.

Also, 144hz IPS all have higher PPI because they're all at least 2560x1440, which NOBODY needs if they're trying to drive 144hz.
Unless you're SLI with 980 Ti's or better, you want 1920x1080 144hz+
More res = less fps = not the point of owning a 144hz+ monitor.
Lowering the res on a 2560x1440 monitor to maintain 144hz will make things look worse than just having a native 1920x1080.
Click to expand...


reading the liunk i provided could teach a lot about the limitations of overdrive and higher refresh rate on VA panels:
Acer Predator Z35 Review - TFT Central

This z35 is capable of 200Hz refresh rate, so in theory it should be a terrific gaming monitor.

In practice, the pixels are too slow for 144Hz, even with overdrive set at extreme:

response_comparison4.jpg



quoting the article:

We felt the screen was ok at up to around 100 - 120Hz without the overshoot becoming distracting and noticeable. At these levels there was little excess blurring or smearing introduced due to some slow pixel changes in most cases, although some scenes showed problems. The overshoot was kept at fairly low levels and not really a problem though up to 120Hz. Sadly we felt the panel was not capable of achieving low enough response times to reliably support anything higher, including the 144Hz native maximum refresh rate, and the overclocked range from 160 - 200Hz. The smearing becomes more obvious and the overdrive impulse starts to get applied too aggressively to try and keep up, and so the resulting overshoot is a big problem. You might want to experiment with different settings above 120Hz perhaps, although we felt the performance at 120Hz gave a better overall appearance.
 
The 35'' panel is just not good, it's too slow and it's based on an older AMVA-type 4-domain matrix (hence the inferior viewing angles). On top of that Acer completely botched the overdrive here.
AUO should rather improve upon the existing AMVA+ technologies for the many planned upcoming panels or they're gonna get rekt by Samsung.
The CFG70 and CF791 SVA panels will probably be reviewed in the coming months then we see how they compare.
Different VA technologies by different manufacturers, just like the Eizo used a different Sharp MVA (UV²A) panel, which gave completely different results on PixPerAn

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/pixperan/eizo_fg2421.jpg (120hz)
 
igluk said:
Thanks!
Yeah we had this already - the B1 was using discontinued M240HVN02.1 panel, B2 is using current M238HVN01.0.
Both are AMVA+, both panels have identical specs on paper, except for the size difference.
But the B1 was slightly superior, it had way better out-of-box calibration and has higher max brightness (~300 nits vs ~240 nits)
It was also faster with overdrive off and had slightly higher contrast, but the B2 still attains the 3000:1 as per spec.
On the B2, you can set a stronger, slightly more effective overdrive. Don't know how the dark transition compares. (0%-20%)
The version with DP also supports 75hz by default, and does not require manual overclocking timings like the B1.

Comparison table

The 27'' is using the same AMVA+ panels as the 27'' BenQ monitors, but I don't know which version exactly.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for the reply.

I just got this from Viewsonic customer support:

Thank you for your email, I have passed your query onto our engineers who have given a response of VG2439SMH is using TN panel with a-si on production.
Click to expand...
 
Viewsonic have a lot of monitors (IPS, VA and TN) at that size with similar names. Maybe they mixed up something. The 2439 and the 2437 are both advertised as VA.
In any case, these are all 2016 24'' 1080p VA monitors and panels they are using, to prevent further confusion:

InnoLux Super-MVA 23.6'' (M236HJJ-XXX)
- Asus VP247HA
- BenQ GW2455H
- iiyama X2481HS-B1 / XB2481HS-B1
- ViewSonic VA2452Mh
- ViewSonic VA2465Smh

AUO AMVA+ 23.8'' (M238HVN01.0, borderless M238HVN01.1)
- BenQ BL2420Z
- BenQ GW2470H
- BenQ EW2445ZH (borderless)
- BenQ VZ2470H (borderless)
- iiyama X2483HSU-B2 / XB2483HSU-B2(DP)
- HP P240va
- Wortmann 2462W (borderless)

Samsung SVA 23.6'' curved (LSM236HP0X)
- Samsung S24E500C / S24E510C / S24E650C
- Samsung C24F390FH / C24F396FH
- Samsung C24FG70 (144Hz)

edit: I also added most 2015 displays
 
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TheBestVideoGamer said:
any news on the hp omen x curved screen?
Click to expand...

No, only that it has G-Sync and is supposed to come out early 2017.
If it is the display shown in this video then it looks like it is using the 30'' 2560x1080 200hz 1800R AMVA panel. So pretty much a copy of the Acer Z301C.
There is also a 30'' 144hz 3440x1440 version of this panel going in production but I believe that's too soon for early 2017 and also it would require DP 1.4 for the 144Hz. And I seriously hope these have better response times and viewing angles than the 35'' 1080p.
 
Acer Z271 is using the same panel as the Lenovo Y27g and some user impressions of that are on page 19 of this thread.
But yeah, one would assume that once there is a new high refresh panel reviewers would try to get their hands on one of them to test but it is awfully silent around these 27''.
Same goes for the Dell S2417DG (TN), which is currently gaining momentum with the users but there's still not a single professional review (even though it is a Dell monitor ffs)
I believe the problem is that too many reviewers rely on samples they get from the manufacturers, so we end up getting 5 reviews for one screen, and 0 for another.
 
For the high hz samsung VA panels that reviews have said are tight to 120hz and then start getting blurry or ghosting at any higher, and the expectation that the upcoming 1440 high 200hz versions that I am looking forward to will be similar being VA:

People typically struggle to get 100fps-hz average at 2560 x 1440 or 3440 x 1440 on the most demanding games even with powerful gpus, and are usually forced to dial graphics settings down to very high or very high+(custom) in order to achieve it. This frame rate goal of 100fps-hz ave results in 40% blur reduction vs 60hz baseline (smear blur) on a low response time panel. The new panels are quoted as 4ms, at least from marketing blurbs, and as others have said, the overdrive implementation matters a lot as well. Anyway, to my point - say you are at that 100fps-hz, you get 40% blur reduction and a 5:3 ratio increase of motion definition, motion pathing and smoothness of the entire viewport/game world moving in relation to your perspective when movement keying and mouse looking at speed in 1st/3rd person game worlds, as well applying to individual virtual object's paths and movements in the scenes.

That sounds like an appreciable improvement. However, being an average, at 100fps-hz your frame rate and hz are actually varying greatly all over the place from around 70 to 135+ for the most part usually. On a low response time TN gaming monitor, this results in sort of a vibration blur look with the motion clarity(blur reduction) varying from practically nil(smear), through 40% to maybe 50% and 60% (fuzzy to a tight soften blur) on the highs.. plus the accompanying motion definition going from a low 1x:1(1:1 basically) through 5:3(1.7:1), 2:1, and 2.4:1 as compared to 60fps-hz.

On a VA monitor that is tight to 120fps-hz in regard to motion clarity, this seems to indicate that the blur will probably ramp up on the top end just like it does on the bottom end, so going over 120fps-hz (typically 50% blur reduction and 2:1 motion def improvement) might sink back to a lower blur reduction % but still keep some motion definition smoothness to it. I have no idea what the rate which the motion clarity would degrade over 120fps-hz on these VA monitors though. For example, would the blur going UP from 120fps-hz to 130 and 140 be more drastic than going DOWN from 120 to 100?. If anyone has an idea I'd like to know.

Of course you should have the option of capping your rate at 120fps-hz or so. That should let you get the 50% blur reduction and 2:1 motion definition increases of 120fps-hz throughout the top end of the frame rate graph without climbing past the top limit of the motion clarity band for the monitor.
 
Got the same on my XB2483HSU-B2
never noticed eariler.... dont see any problmes with that.

Barto said:
for those who own a iiyama XB2483HSU-B2 ( or B1 ) I want to know if it's normal to feel a pressure difference on the right plastic edge when I press it with my finger ? :

View attachment 6938

it seems that the assembly of the plastic shell around the screen is not perfect, I can feel a difference if I press the plastic edge with my finger,

on the left edge it's Ok, no weak deformation if I press it,

but on the right the black plastic edge deforms under the pressure of my finger, and I can see that the screen is not pressed 100% against the plastic edge, there is one millimeter opening between the screen and the right black plastic edge :

is it normal all these differences between left and right side for the plastic edges ?

the quality of the assembly is not perfect
Click to expand...
 
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leadays said:
It can be preordered on amazon.it for 450€. Sure it's the only monitor that is VA + 144hz + 24", but that's too much money.

https://www.amazon.it/Samsung-C24FG70-Monitor-1920x1080-Freesync/dp/B01LN1QSQY/
Click to expand...

I've seen it at $400 USD and less elsewhere already so I don't know what the final price is going to be.
There also still isn't a good 144hz+ VA monitor as far as I'm concerned.

If they can make this as good or better than their current best VA monitors, it's going to be really good.
Hopefully their marketing is true enough that this will be Samsung's least blurry VA monitor to date, that's basically what they're claiming.
Samsung's least blurry VA's are already pretty good in that department, but they're not 144hz.

AUO doesn't seem to be improving their VA panels much, and everyone they send their panels to are borderline retarded when it comes to implementing overdrive.

Samsung is the only other choice, and this is their only 144hz.
So I'm basically paying whatever it's going to cost, unless they somehow all completely forgot how to do their jobs properly when developing the C24FG70.
There's literally no reason for this not to be the best high refresh rate monitor since the FG2421, other than spontaneous incompetence.
 
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Hunched said:
I've seen it at $400 USD and less elsewhere already so I don't know what the final price is going to be.
There also still isn't a good 144hz+ VA monitor as far as I'm concerned.

If they can make this as good or better than their current best VA monitors, it's going to be really good.
Hopefully their marketing is true enough that this will be Samsung's least blurry VA monitor to date, that's basically what they're claiming.
Samsung's least blurry VA's are already pretty good in that department, but they're not 144hz.

AUO doesn't seem to be improving their VA panels much, and everyone they send their panels to are borderline retarded when it comes to implementing overdrive.

Samsung is the only other choice, and this is their only 144hz.
So I'm basically paying whatever it's going to cost, unless they somehow all completely forgot how to do their jobs properly when developing the C24FG70.
There's literally no reason for this not to be the best high refresh rate monitor since the FG2421, other than spontaneous incompetence.
Click to expand...

There are 165hz or 200hz 1440 high 16:9 and 21:9 VA due out too from samsung and auo as per TFT central news. Exactly when idk but I'm waiting on them. Really hope Samsung releases a gsync model variant.
 
elvn said:
There are 165hz or 200hz 1440 high 16:9 and 21:9 VA due out too from samsung and auo as per TFT central news. Exactly when idk but I'm waiting on them. Really hope Samsung releases a gsync model variant.
Click to expand...
Damn. I wish the C24FG70 was 165hz or 200hz or more, I wouldn't be using G-sync in anything with multiplayer but it would still be nice for singleplayer experiences.
I'm not interested in 1440 or higher with 144hz+/200hz, I'm not looking to spend $2000+ on Titan X Pascal SLI to try to maintain 200fps+ at 1440p

BenQ is releasing a 144hz 32" 1920x1080 monitor.... Who buys 32" 1080p monitors?
BenQ EX3200R 144Hz VA monitor with FreeSync support - PC Monitors
 
Hunched said:
Damn. I wish the C24FG70 was 165hz or 200hz or more, I wouldn't be using G-sync in anything with multiplayer but it would still be nice for singleplayer experiences.
I'm not interested in 1440 or higher with 144hz+/200hz, I'm not looking to spend $2000+ on Titan X Pascal SLI to try to maintain 200fps+ at 1440p

BenQ is releasing a 144hz 32" 1920x1080 monitor.... Who buys 32" 1080p monitors?
BenQ EX3200R 144Hz VA monitor with FreeSync support - PC Monitors
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. I have found a 1440p gsync monitor to work amazingly with just a gtx 1070. True it won't hold high FPS with the AAA games for years longer, but for now it's keeping up really well. You also have to keep in mind that anti-aliasing is not needed at such a high resolution, giving room for you to enable other eye-candy. Also, seeing as one replaces a gpu more often than a monitor, it would still be a good futureproof investment.
Lastly, from my experience the extra hz is MUCH more noticable in the 60-120 fps range than in 120-144 (and I imagine 144-200 as well, though I can't confirm).

All-in-all, I guess my point is that when it comes down to a purchase decision, I wouldn't let 1440p scare me off as long as it has gsync/freesync.
 
MMores said:
I have to disagree. I have found a 1440p gsync monitor to work amazingly with just a gtx 1070. True it won't hold high FPS with the AAA games for years longer, but for now it's keeping up really well. You also have to keep in mind that anti-aliasing is not needed at such a high resolution, giving room for you to enable other eye-candy. Also, seeing as one replaces a gpu more often than a monitor, it would still be a good futureproof investment.
Lastly, from my experience the extra hz is MUCH more noticable in the 60-120 fps range than in 120-144 (and I imagine 144-200 as well, though I can't confirm).

All-in-all, I guess my point is that when it comes down to a purchase decision, I wouldn't let 1440p scare me off as long as it has gsync/freesync.
Click to expand...

I have a GTX 1070 as well, running 1080p.
It drops below 144fps in most new games, even without AA enabled in things like Rainbow Six Siege or the BF1 Beta.
Graphical settings would have to be lowered, and lowered even more at 1440p.

When it comes to any new AAA games that test the limits like Rise of the Tomb Raider or Hitman, good luck at constant 100fps+ even without any AA if everything else is maxed.
It's just not going to happen.

Until I never drop below 144fps in most 2015/2016/2017 games at max settings excluding AA, I see no reason to increase my resolution and lower my fps even more.
It's already a struggle at 1080p no AA in nearly every 2015 and 2016 eyecandy game.

I wouldn't even call Rainbow Six Siege an eye candy game and it struggles there too on some maps 1080p no AA, dipping below 100fps.

I'm not saying nobody should get 1440p+, but if your priority is fps, higher res isn't something to be bothering with.
The same can be said high/ultra settings in-game, but I find lowering graphical settings to medium or lower strips the atmosphere and eye-candy out of a game far more than a resolution decrease with higher settings.
 
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